adultery & 100 stripes as punishment
-
Salaam, this topic is censored by some socalled "lifelong student scholars", and im banned from their forums - i hope freeminds would let me post this here.
This is just a response to share my understanding. This is not an attempt to convince anyone. No one has final authority over the Quranic words. Those who are satisfied with what knowledge they have, I envy... Those who want to learn more and see things from another angle, I am amongst you.
To understand Zina we must examine ?Fahshah?.
Fa-Ha-Shin = became excessive/immoderate/enormous/exorbitant/overmuch/beyond measure, foul/bad/evil/unseemly/indecency/abominable, lewd/gross/obscene, committing excess which is forbidden, transgress the bounds/limits, avaricious, adultery/fornication.(project root list)
?720
Then Satan deceived them in order to reveal their imperfections and fallibility to them....?
That is, Satan misled them so that their (human) errors became visible.
?722
So by deceit Satan brought about their downfall. They tasted of the tree of discord and started to divide into branches. Soon their imperfections became obvious and they tried to conceal them in vain with superficial courtesy. Then came a Reminder from their Lord, ?Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you that Satan is your open enemy??
Here the words waraqi aljannati? are mentioned... what is it referring to? Is Warqai Al-Jannah the green leaves from Paradise as mullahs argue, or is it the message of Allah that leads to Jannah; namely, Allah's commands? No, I do not think this is reference to the ?green leaves? from Paradise.
-When they realised they had made mistakes, they prayed for forgiveness (to reform)
723 They said, ?Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. Unless You forgive us and have Mercy on us, we will certainly be lost.?
To reform, they have waraqi al jannah which will guide them and they will have LIBAS AL TAQWAH
O Children of Adam! We have provided you with garments to cover your bodies as well as to adorn you. The best garment for you to wear, in addition, is good conduct. (Your character decorates you inside out.) These are the verses of God that they must take to heart.?
It is not a question of attire, but a "libaas" that embraces and develops the person to new heights. It is a ?Libas? which through warq al jannah helps one to achieve taqwah and become muttaqi.
People may can believe that this is really green leaves from paradise as they hid behind, because they were naked and needed new clothes.
But I do not think it's about clothes just because the word libas is used. Here, ?libas al taqwah? means to prevent crime to flourish in society and the individual... we are reminded of this through warq al jannah (Allah's words, the decree).let us continue .727
O Children of Adam! Let not your selfish desire deceive you as it deceived your ancestors, caused them to lose their Paradise, and exposed their imperfections. A host of selfish and rebellious desires lurk within you. You can?t even see them but these Satans see you and befriend those who do not believe.
Satan misled them and they lost libas al taqwah; they lost paradise (which can only be attained with warq al-jannah ? Allah?s decrees), and their imperfections were overexposed.
But this is a bit special 728
(As an example) when people commit an indecency they say, ?We found our forefathers doing it and God has enjoined it upon us.? (Made it natural for us). Say (O Prophet), ?God never enjoins indecency. Do you attribute to God that of which you have no knowledge??
Here it is said that the ?ancestors? were committing ?Fahshah?, and they claimed this to be from God.
For arguments sake, let?s say ?Fahsha? means sex outside of marriage... have you ever heard people argue that prostitution and indecency is something that has been practiced for centuries by their ancestors? In addition, there are not many who claim this is from God.
Hindus and Jews, for example, are not allowed to have sex outside of marriage either.
People have tried to emphasise that their ancestors have done it and so it is natural for them. What have the prophets taught time and time again? The prophets have said that second-rate, man-made rules / laws should not be embraced / followed.
The perverse, mullahs / rabies preach that ?Fahshah? is all about sex, beer, adultery and therefore believe that for humans these are the worst or the only crime / sins one can commit .
But the Koran and Allah's words were not revealed to teach man not to have sex out of wedlock because the consequence is 100 lashes. The Quran was sent to us for much more than a limited category of guidance. The Quran was sent to introduce human rights and the socio-economic system that contains all permanent values.
In 728 Allah says - ?God never enjoins indecency(Fahsha). Do you attribute to God that of which you have no knowledge??
i.e. Allah does not decree orders of that nature... if such orders are not from Allah, what are Allah?s orders ? If ?fahshah? is sex out of wedlock, then the order would be, ?do not have sex out of wedlock?. It is written that it is not from God, then what is from God ? The opposite of Fahshah is from God.
As a response those who claim fahsha to be Allahs order, Allah says what he commands
729 Say (O Messenger), ?My Lord enjoins justice and moderation and to stand devoted to Him alone in complete obedience. Call unto Him, sincere in your Faith in Him alone. He it is Who brought you into being in the first place, and to Him you will return.? (And this is how you can regain your lost Paradise in both worlds.)
If Fahshah were to mean sex out of wedlock, Allah would have said ?No I have not ordered to have sex out of wedlock. I have even said that he who has sex outside of marriage should be beaten so the entire population can see it.
However, this is not what Allah has said, he states something completely different!
? That he is ?JUST? ? he provides commands of justice, whoever is to follow his laws and commands should do so to the full.
? To follow him (and not fahshah) to follow all laws made by him.
? To invite to his Deen, with Sincerity.
? If an individual is a Muslim to begin with, but is misled by Satan, obviously he will walk away from Allah?s teachings. However, he will return to the correct path he once followed.
Allah explains what is forbidden for us and then provides an order such for it, such as ?do not commit ?Fahshah? and then the order will come as ?stand devoted to him alone in complete obedience?.
730
But there will be two parties among people. Some of them will live upright according to the Divine Laws of Guidance while others will ally with Satans as their friends. They take their religious leadership as their masters instead of God, and think that they are rightly guided.
Here you can see for yourself, two paths, but who is guided?
? Those who respond to Allah's laws (this includes EVERYTHING, not just those who do not have sex outside of marriage)
? Those who follow Satan - and do not follow Allah's commands (not just fornication)
So far, one can see that the whole doctrine is to follow Allah's commands / words. This will give us libas al taqwah.
Those who follow Satan, they commit ?Fahshah? (ALL that is outside the Quran). The following of man-made rules which are claimed to be ?Islamic? is referred to as ?Fahsah?. Warq al jannah is what precludes people from crime / bad actions, and Satan seizes ?Libas Al Taqwah.
What is ZEENAT (Beauty)?
730-31
O Children of Adam! Subservience and obedience to the Divine Commands ensures for you adornment and nice things in life. So enjoy God?s Bounties, but do not commit excesses. God does not love the wasters.
Say, ?Who has forbidden the beauty and nice things God has brought forth for His servants, and the pure clean things of your choice?? Say, ?Such things are for those in this world who believe in the Divine Laws. And on the Day of Resurrection they will be exclusively for those who attained Conviction.? We thus explain Our Laws for those who make good use of what they learn?.
If these Ayats were about pretty, expensive clothes and jewellery, then this is only for a certain type of people, namely the rich. But Allah's word is for all; his commands are for everyone to comply. Therefore Zeenat of mankind are the divine commands / Ehkaam.
Here you can see what fahsha is
733
Say, ?My Lord forbids ONLY (INNAMA ) Indecent shameful deeds, open or secret, actions that hurt the ?self? and drag down the individual and collective human potential, unjust aggression, associating others with God (Shirk) for which He has sent down no Authority, and that you say things about God that do not know.?
Here the word INNAMA (ONLY) is used, i.e. if fahsha is ?fornication?, then this would mean that only fornication is forbidden. In other words, God has only forbidden sex and drugs, but one can follow any other rules - one can?t have sex outside wedlock, but one can do everything else.
Surat Noor 2-3 ?fajildo? is translated to "whip" on their skin
?Jild? has a root ?jeem-Laam-Daal?. Other words that are derived from this root are jild and mujild. ?jild? means something that protects / safeguards. That is why skin is called ?Jild? because it protects against the outside.
Mujild Kitab = a book that has a cover (which protects the sheets inside so they are not demolished)
The word mi-ata = has been translated into hundreds... which in reality means "very much". The number 100 is used because ?100? is considered to be ?very much?.
If one looks at Edward william lanes explanation, you will see that ?Zina? does not only mean ?fornication?, but it has alternative meanings too.
Zina Zay-Ya-Nun = to mount, the mounting upon a thing, to commit fornication / adultery, fornicator / adulterer. (For further information please refer to http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm )
Similary,the english word adultary adultery
"voluntary violation of the marriage bed," c.1300, avoutrie, from O.Fr. avoutrie, aoulterie, noun of condition from avoutre/aoutre, from L. adulterare "to corrupt" (see adulteration). Modern spelling, with the re-inserted -d-, is from early 15c. (see ad-). Classified as single adultery (with an unmarried person) and double adultery (with a married person). O.E. word was ?wbryce "breach of law(ful marriage)." Adultery Dune in Arizona corresponds to Navajo sei adilehe "adultery sand" and was where illicit lovers met privately.
http//www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=adulteryIt?s astonishing that one does not utilise ones intelligence, instead, assumes the most suited choice of translation for ?Zina? is sex out of wedlock! But of course, it's all about food, drink and sex.
A friend said ?With Zina, the mental sickness that feeds this act cannot be removed by doing nothing or cutting the male appendage off!
?If two people have sex outside marriage, Allah has provided a punishment that will cure their "mental sickness" ?
Couples all over the world choose to live together out of wedlock... Does this mean they are suffering from a form of mental ?Sickness? ? I presume, everyone should be whipped in order for them to change their behaviour?
Do you really think that 100 lashes will help against "mental illness"?
Bani adam is subject libas al taqwah to protect them from bad things
726
What is Zinah?
Here we are talking about people who change the Qur'anic message due to naivety and give false statements. It is in fact encouraged to restrain people from doing such things. If there are people with little knowledge who commit Zina, they require a certain type of rehabilitation ? to make them aware of what they are doing, so they stop. If there are powerful people who intentionally try and change the Quran, they require an intense program of therapy and fortification so that they realise they are doing wrong and change their intention, understanding and wisdom. (Miata, 100)
Fahsah is that which sets aside God's word and then is argued it is from Allah. Fahshah provides a independency from the Quran that misleads the people ? it takes people away from waraqi al jannah (Allah?s commands).
To equate the rules of Allah's (in all forms) is shirk...To Follow anything outside of Divine message is Fahshah. Fahshah is not limited to sexual activities outside marriage.
Therefore, Zina and shirk are on the same line and have been given the same status. Shirk is setting up rules and laws in par with Allah's commands,make ppl follow their manmade rules, while Zina is to destroy(corrupt,distort)the given message of Allah's commands.
If you continue to believe that there is only talk about sex, you have the right to do so. But if you think that 100 lashes should guide those who want to have sex outside of marriage, you?re clearly wrong. Would anyone of us whip our daughters in public, completely humiliating her and ourselves? How about our sons? Those who practice such things are clearly suffering from a form of mental illness!
Remember that I am not saying that looseness is a good thing; I know very well that you should be Chaste. However, I know that without being whipped in front of people!!!!!
Zina in ayaat Noor is being understood as follows
Anyone who builds on top of the Message of Allah (destroys the Quranic message), must be very intense, a method of major fortification will be needed to rescue someone from such actions.
In the case of Allah's Deen, there is no compromise. If you are ?Ahl AMN? and you remain ?Ahl AMN? under all circumstance, then the Zani who distort the Quranic message, must be under the supervision of the ?Ahl AMN? who provide an intense amount of fortification and protection (for rehabilitation purposes).
Like the ?Jild? protects everything from the outside, just like this, the Islamic state would provide a program (of protection/) for the Zani.
The reason for that is once a zani (one who tries to change the Quranic message) gets the chance, he will spend time with peers of the same thought or calibre.
Now, who are on par with the Zani i.e. those that will change the Qur'anic message?
It is zani's and the ?Mushriks? as they share the same intent and have the same goals. The mushriks provide their own rules and try to influence the Qur'an or equalize their own ideas and rules of the Qur'an.i.e. Zania will meet and keep company with those that have something in common with her.
That is why a mushrik and zani is plased on the same ?muqaam/Status?
. -
Salam Bob,
Very interesting but we have 24/3-9 to deal with. I think you're gonna need to explain those as well, please.
-
ws
I tried to explain those verses in the last part .
Zina in ayaat Noor 242-3 is being understood as follows
Anyone who builds on top of the Message of Allah (destroys the Quranic message), must be very intense, a method of major fortification will be needed to rescue someone from such actions.
In the case of Allah's Deen, there is no compromise. If you are ?Ahl AMN? and you remain ?Ahl AMN? under all circumstance, then the Zani who distort the Quranic message, must be under the supervision of the ?Ahl AMN? who provide an intense amount of fortification and protection (for rehabilitation purposes).
Like the ?Jild? protects everything from the outside, just like this, the Islamic state would provide a program (of protection/) for the Zani.
The reason for that is once a zani (one who tries to change the Quranic message) gets the chance, he will spend time with peers of the same thought or calibre.
Now, who are on par with the Zani i.e. those that will change the Qur'anic message?
It is zani's and the ?Mushriks? as they share the same intent and have the same goals. The mushriks provide their own rules and try to influence the Qur'an or equalize their own ideas and rules of the Qur'an.i.e. Zania will meet and keep company with those that have something in common with her.
That is why a mushrik and zani is plased on the same ?muqaam/Status?
Thank you .
-
Ok and 24/4-9 please?
also, we need to ask why 4 witnesses are necessary. If the person openly 'mounts' on the message, that is.
-
Salam Bob,
Very interesting but we have 24/3-9 to deal with. I think you're gonna need to explain those as well, please.
The verse about zani and zania came on everyone and not just the believers. Just like the versee about stealing and their punishment. Which to me means a communal law and not a religious one. It was applied on everyone. The Koran seperated mariage rules for the believers but not zina rules. I think thats because the nature of the society. The Koran put a lot of ink on slandering women. Why should anyone care but in Arabian societies it could be dangerous. But this was the case with the pagans also. In a Chinese society slandering women can be meaningless but in Arab societies in can mean honor killings and revenge killings. Anything that brings harm should be avoided. However I think fornification is another mater as you are not dealing with something that belongs to something else.
-
Bob,
When you write long with no subtitles or visual formatting, try to provide a summary of it somewhere in the beginning or the end. Can you please summarize your assertions in a paragraph.
Peace,
Edip