definitions/labels: muslim, kafirs, extremist, etc
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given the discussions in other threads, i thought of starting a new topic here where we define/discuss
muslim?
non-muslim?
extremist?
kafir?
are sunnis/shias muslim, if not why not?
who are the quranist? are they muslims?
idol-worship?how do you identify yourself? and others?
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As I started the post, let me share some thoughts.
I don't consider mentioning Muhammad's name to be committing 'idol worship'. There's a difference between 'idolizing' and 'idol worship'. Saying that Muhammad is the messenger of God is a fact. Asking God to bless Muhammad and his family, that is not committing 'idol worship'. If I asked God to bless Adam, Eve, Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Noah...(well you get my point) and Muhammad the messenger of God and his family - that's not committing 'idol worship'. Mentioning facts and asking God to bless so and so, that is not 'idol worship'.
When I am with sunni muslims, I don't have a problem praying alongside. While everyone around me is asking God to bless Muhammad and his family, I ask God to bless me and my family. (I am sure Muhammad and his family won't mind and they really don't need me to ask God to bless them as they are all dead. it is me and my family/friends who need all the blessings). I am asking God to give me strength, to make my exit be with honor, to forgive me, etc. I like my prayers to be just that - praying to God. Just me and God and leaving out the facts about Muhammad. I am not doing anything 'un-islamic' by thinking about God exclusively throughout the day.
This doesn't meant that I don't respect Muhammad or deny that he is a messenger of God. Prayer is not the time for me to pay my respect or state facts about Muhammad. I have decorative plates stating the fact in my apartment - no, I am not committing 'idol worship' by having plates and wall hangings stating the fact that Muhammad is a messenger of God. If I have a decorative plate or wall hanging, it doesn't mean that I am worshiping Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, etc. I also have a little squirrel that I made out of clay in 6th grade on display in the living room but I don't worship the clay figurine.
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bravo
i have to say i look forward to your replies here on freeminds..loved the explanation uv posted and agree with it a 100 percent..there is a definite need to define these terms frm the quran so we refrain frm annoying namecalling...islam is a religion of peace,acceptence andlove..lets keep it that way
im currently studyng quran frm a fresh beginning just to be filter out stuff that iv learnt abt "islam" frm the numerous conflicting and unreasonable hadiths and focus on the True message.so my knowledge is very limited and may be subject to change...will love feedback frm people here abt my views.
currently i believemuslim
a.believer person who considers Him alone to be the sole Guardian/Provider and Judge in this life and the hereafter.
b.submitter who submits to God after having faith in Him as the one True God (through his messages i presume)
muslim is i think an integration of both.
c.Mumin person who follows the commands of Allah(physical acts like zakah,physical prayer,dietery commandments etc) through his scripture (quran, torah,injeel etc)
I believe that you do not NEED to follow the quran to be a muslim...abraham, moses, jesus were all muslims (submitted and accepted Allah/Adonai etc as the One true God). To be a muslim you have to have the intention of living for and submitting to God alone and pray to HIm alone fr your needs,and then letting Him decide over your affairs. in this day and age if u dont hv access to the quran or dont think it is the message of God in entirety it doesnt classify u as a non-believer, as long as u believe there is a Creator and Provider. if u hv that knwledge down ur system u have the BASIC UNDERLYING principle of islam down without even the need fr quran to guide u through.non-muslim I think anyone who prays to anyone but God and counts on the diety to provide him/her with her wants and needs.
extremist anyone who cant tolerate another persons point of view with patience and understanding and needs to depend on namecalling and insults to gain an upper hand...basically thinks they have access to the truth only and their opinion is the only correct one.
kafir i think anyone who knows that Allah is thecreator and provider but still refuses to submit to Him and follows his/her own desires. (shaitan is called a kaffir when he refuses to bow down to adam in surah baqarah, so thats where I get this opinion from)
so kaffir i think is NOT someone who prays to another god but one who defies and denies the right of God to be the One who deserves to be listened to and submitted to
in contrast a non-muslim may be someone who doesnt KNOW there is one God who deserved to be worshipped..(gentiles i think?)another definition which i think is imp is that of shirk
shirk is asking or praying to someone/thing apart frm Allah and thinking they have the power to answer their prayers and help them inthislife or the next.in conclusion
praising the prophet is not shirk..i dont think saying peace be upon him and his family is shirk..nor is mentioning his acts or idolizing his deeds.
shirk is when u start saying that he has the power to intercess on judgement day and that u need to include him in ur prayer in order fr it to be accepted..or praying to him/his family and believing that they have the God given authority to judge on judgement day or to pardon our sins.It is a dangerous area to get into, this praising the prophet too much and looking upto his words/actions now that he is not among us...satan is pretty clever in that he has changed teh love and reverence that muslims had fr their prophet and turned it into idol worship. right now we do not know whether a saying/hadith was said by the prophet or not..this hadith issue has given authority to so many random ppl..claiming yes the prophet said this n that, just to gain some control and advantage....some hadith are good and make me want to follow the prophet, lik ethe time the old lady who used to throw trash on him fell sick and he helped her recover and looked after her etc (dont remember the exact details)..other like th eones that say women are the majority of ppl in hell etc are just plain annoying and i know that any prophet of Allah will never talk that way and put women down like that.hence why to avoid confusion and getting pissed off by annoying so called hadith, i just stay away frm them in general.
FINALLY (IMO)
shias majority of them wud commit shirk if they believe that anyother prson apart frm God has authority to solve their problems
sunnis if they pray to any other person apart frm God and count on them to be their saviors then i wud classify them as committing shirk
quranists i think they wud be muslims if they only believe in praying and submitting to One God....dont think it matters if u follow the math code ( it might be fascinating fr ppl who are into math, just like i find the scientific facts in the quran fascinating and they help fortify my faith) but if u DEPEND ON THE CODE to believe in the quran then i think ur in troubled waters, coz its sad if its only a bunch ofnumbers that are binding u to the quran, its also easy to debunk if tomorrow another code comes out..
if u like the morality in the quran and think the message is frm God and feel like it deserves to be followed then i think ur a muslim and a mumin. i also think if u follow the true commandments of Allah frm original injeel, torah or zubur u wud also be a mumin as the source is the same..but its hard to find the original texts of those books.
if u feel the need to add books apart frm the ones that God sent down then theres sthing seriously wrong with ur beliefsystem (note imnot saying it classifies u as a non believer)if u feel that Gods word is not enough ur getting into the same trouble that jews and christians fell into, wat with their clergy and numerous additions to the Truth.that is when the devil finds the opportunity to creep in and whisper, when u fall short of finding strength in Gods word.may God guide us all to the Truth and give us strength, patience and love.
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given the discussions in other threads, i thought of starting a new topic here where we define/discuss
muslim?
non-muslim?
extremist?
kafir?
are sunnis/shias muslim, if not why not?
who are the quranist? are they muslims?
idol-worship?
how do you identify yourself? and others?Peace,
Respect.Muslim is a person who lives according to The Qur'an.
Non-muslim is a person who lives opposite of how Qur'an tells us.
Extremist is a person who goes over the limits in any and all departments/areas/thoughts.
Kafir is a person who doesn't believe in God.
Sunnis/shias aren't muslims. They follow sunnah and hadeeth, hence the wording sunni and shia.
Quranist is a name given to muslims by sunnis due to their anger towards us.
Idol-worship=person who worships idols, statues, false god/s.I identify myself as a muslim, because I follow/obey The Qur'an. I try my best to live according to The Qur'an, but I'm a human, therefore weak, God knows best.
I see others also as myself - deeds speak louder than words. Of coruse, one must keep in mind that only God truly knows who is what/who and therefore we can't judge or decide who is a muslim or non-muslim. I only have very little knowledge, God knows best.
Glory be to God.
Peace. -
given the discussions in other threads, i thought of starting a new topic here where we define/discuss
muslim?
non-muslim?
extremist?
kafir?
are sunnis/shias muslim, if not why not?
who are the quranist? are they muslims?
idol-worship?how do you identify yourself? and others?
These are all just labels given by other people really. I consider myself a Muslim because I submit to Allah alone and try my best to follow His commandments.
I try not to call anyone a non-muslim as thats not my place as I don't know what's inside, only Allah does and they may be more Muslim than most who use the label muslim.
extremists are in all things and all religions. A person who has strong belief and pushes it on others by force and judges everyone by his own belief, whether it is right or not.
Kafir again I wont label anyone with as only Allah knows
sunni and shia again labels but one claimed by themselves, clear in the book not to separate into sects but they do anyway each believing they have sole claim to the truth.
quranist was new to me and I think again a label given by other people, normally thrown as an insult, which is a joke. One who follows Quran only is surely a muslim? Not all who follow Quran alone need code 19 to do that either.
idol worship, praying to other than God, making something else as God, thinking something else can help/forgive/secure a place in heaven. One can also worship pop stars and people and try to mimmick everything they do, how they dress etc to 'be like them'.
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justamuslim
I don't consider mentioning Muhammad's name to be committing 'idol worship'. There's a difference between 'idolizing' and 'idol worship'. Saying that Muhammad is the messenger of God is a fact. Asking God to bless Muhammad and his family, that is not committing 'idol worship'. If I asked God to bless Adam, Eve, Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Noah...(well you get my point) and Muhammad the messenger of God and his family - that's not committing 'idol worship'. Mentioning facts and asking God to bless so and so, that is not 'idol worship'.
When I am with sunni muslims, I don't have a problem praying alongside. While everyone around me is asking God to bless Muhammad and his family, I ask God to bless me and my family. (I am sure Muhammad and his family won't mind and they really don't need me to ask God to bless them as they are all dead. it is me and my family/friends who need all the blessings).
Your post in red is that with I agree 100% and that is my stance. Nice!
The one in blue may be some problem there?
Do you think that the dead do not need our prayers?
Do you think that our prayers cannot help them?I would like to know?
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given the discussions in other threads, i thought of starting a new topic here where we define/discuss
muslim?
non-muslim?
extremist?
kafir?
are sunnis/shias muslim, if not why not?
who are the quranist? are they muslims?
idol-worship?how do you identify yourself? and others?
muslim = anyone who surrenders to the light of the universe. It is close-minded to think that The God is concerned with the superficial, thus, what we label ourselves is not really relevant in the grandest scheme of things. Islam is a universal religion. Anyone at all can be muslim and not know it. The simplest test is Are you a good person? We all have The Light within us, It's just a matter of submitting to it. No scripture is required.
non-muslims, kaafir, extremists, kaafir all fall into the same heading (to me). These are the misguided people who have consciously or subconsciously taken Satan as their savior. If you study carefully, you'll find that these people lack basic common sense, and have a disease in their hearts. They have more evil in them than good. Ignoring The Light can only lead to darkness, until your vision blurs you blind (see 4336-3.
The label 'quranist' is often misrepresented both here and elsewhere by those who seek to slander 'quranist' ideology. Anyone who follows quran alone to me is a quranist. Yet, this is not a label by any means, but a way to identify a 'quranist' from a sunni, since the latter has become synonymous with the title Muslim. Better explained here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599158.msg224999#msg224999
Idol worship = following the laws of anyone other than God. Know that 'idol-worshippers' are totally unaware of their idolatry (622-24). They too think they are God-aloners.
Are sunnis/shias etc muslim? I think its narrow-minded to lump any sect as muslim/non-muslim. Judge the person, not the race/color/creed/belief. A sectarian is not automatically a 'non-muslim'.
How do I identify myself? This is a tough one. It depends on who I am having a conversation with--Muslims, I go along with it and just say 'yeah I am Muslim'...I try not to shove my beliefs down anyone's throats--and whether or not they are open to dialog about religion. I try to stay away from labels from as much as possible, but this is how the human sees superficially, so its quiet difficult most of the time. "Oh you're Muslim, so you must be like everyone else who calls themselves Muslim.."
I try to educate non-Muslims about the universality of Islam, that they could very well be muslim without knowing it. That The Quran instructs us to use logic to form conclusions. That Islam is not even a religion.
