The Night of Decree is the 27th day of the 9th moon: Incontrovertible proof

guest

so yu cant answer it either, that's erm, surprising

Answer to the nonsense questions were provided in the ?Hot/"ramadan" Answer? thread including a challenge which your (and WayFinder?s) master Ayman refused to accept. Thus exposing the falsehood and fakeness. The ?Hot Ramadan? article has no head or tail. It is absolutely the best example of ?no no?. It is the worst known article in the history of mankind. And who else would follow it other than you and WayFinder?

Look it up no mind boy, calendars go back a long way and are different depending on what they are based on.

I have looked everywhere where sun shines but found no such evidence. You must be getting it out of where sun never shines.

Mazhar

No Its not a foolish question, its a very valid question which you cannot answer.

The calendar at the time of Muhammed is not the calendar Islam goes by today, so very rightly one must ask when was the day 1 month 1 calculated from. Quran is not dependant on any of our calendars or months but on the system of Allah, so how would you know ramadan if you had no calendar and no watch? If you cannot answer it then you are saying that ramadan IS dependant on a calendar that is man made, which is how it is worked out now, not how Allah worked it out.

What a correct observation

These are Mega foolish questions that can only be asked Mega foolish people and supported by Mega foolish people.

Are the phases of moon measured by watches?

WayFinder

Are the phases of moon measured by watches?

How would you know it is the ninth moon?

Ayisha

How would you know it is the ninth moon?

and how many pages the same question unanswered.

Seems there are a few who just post insults because they are backed up with questions they cannot answer. peace

guest

Quote
2173 - We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat). To us, they were devoted worshipers.

3224 - We appointed from among them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, because they steadfastly persevered and attained certainty about our revelations.

7179 - We have committed to Hell multitudes of jinns and humans. They have minds with which they do not understand, eyes with which they do not see, and ears with which they do not hear. They are like animals; no, they are far worse - they are totally unaware.

was there a point to this post or was it just to remind us all you're still here not answering anything?

You seem to be at a lost whenever straight forward Quranic verses are quoted. You fail to grasp the meaning of it in the context of the discussion at hand. But you rejoice whenever someone twist the meaning of a verse and produce a devilish interpretation to it. You leave crystal clear evidence of it in your writing. The latest example being in the Dr. Qamar's Haqeeqat...thread ?Downloaded both and have read introduction only on fasting. I like this guy already, thanks mubashir55. will let you know how i get on with the rest.? Even a mentally retard person would show a better understanding than him. And you love him!!!

Now I will give you the the reasons (baby steps) for citing those verses

2173 tells us that we are to learn salat, zakat, and other religious rites from imam. And you and people like you would violate this verse and say we know better than the imams we will tell you how to perform salat and other religious rite. We have the master book ?root meaning dictionary? where we find all the explanation of the Quranic verses. Even though the Quran does not say that you will learn salat from the Quran, our root meaning dictionary override the Quran and says this is it.

With your approach you would have argued with Prophet Muhammad regarding salat and other rites if you were living at that time. You would have said to Prophet Muhammad that he was doing the salat wrong because the Quran does not tell us to do it this way. And your timing is wrong as well, you shall perform salat 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, ....times a day.

And if you were living after prophet Muhammad died (within 30 years or so), you would have said the same thing to the follower of Prophet Muhammad who has learned to perform salat from Prophet Muhammad.

This is the absurdity you and your friends are propagating here. You can never succeed.

guest

How would you know it is the ninth moon?

With this question he implying the following

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did not know when the ninth moon was i.e. when the Ramadan is.
For certain, Prophet Muhammad knew when the Ramadan month was and the night of destiny
WayFinder wants us to believe that Prophet Muhammad did not know it and hence his follower did not know it. Otherwise why would he ask such a foolish question.
The reference point has been established by Prophet Muhammad which has been propagated to us via continuity and blessings of Allah
Only the wicked people will disregard the truth.

Raaajah

guest to Ayisha

But you rejoice whenever someone twist the meaning of a verse and produce a devilish interpretation to it. You leave crystal clear evidence of it in your writing. The latest example being in the Dr. Qamar's Haqeeqat...thread ?Downloaded both and have read introduction only on fasting. I like this guy already, thanks mubashir55. will let you know how i get on with the rest.? Even a mentally retard person would show a better understanding than him. And you love him!!!

That was just classic bravo

Ayisha

2173 - We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat). To us, they were devoted worshipers.

3224 - We appointed from among them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, because they steadfastly persevered and attained certainty about our revelations.

7179 - We have committed to Hell multitudes of jinns and humans. They have minds with which they do not understand, eyes with which they do not see, and ears with which they do not hear. They are like animals; no, they are far worse - they are totally unaware.

was there a point to this post or was it just to remind us all you're still here not answering anything?

apart from the last line, that was your quote.

You seem to be at a lost whenever straight forward Quranic verses are quoted. You fail to grasp the meaning of it in the context of the discussion at hand. But you rejoice whenever someone twist the meaning of a verse and produce a devilish interpretation to it. You leave crystal clear evidence of it in your writing. The latest example being in the Dr. Qamar's Haqeeqat...thread ?Downloaded both and have read introduction only on fasting. I like this guy already, thanks mubashir55. will let you know how i get on with the rest.? Even a mentally retard person would show a better understanding than him. And you love him!!!

You seem to be at a loss that what you quoted had nothing to do with the discussion at hand. You fail to grasp the context of the verses you posted.

I am glad that I have got up your nose to the point you are now searching my posts to find something to twist and say your hadith on though. I had read the introduction and liked it, it doesnt mean I have read all of it and 'loved him' so that is another thing you have publicly twisted.

Now I will give you the the reasons (baby steps) for citing those verses

2173 tells us that we are to learn salat, zakat, and other religious rites from imam. And you and people like you would violate this verse and say we know better than the imams we will tell you how to perform salat and other religious rite. We have the master book ?root meaning dictionary? where we find all the explanation of the Quranic verses. Even though the Quran does not say that you will learn salat from the Quran, our root meaning dictionary override the Quran and says this is it.
Now I will attempt to teach you what you seem to be blind to.
21.73 is talking about Isaac and Jacob, not the imam in the local Mosque showing you how to pray. It is wise to check previous verse to see the context of the verse you are claiming means something totally different. The Imams are the prophets

With your approach you would have argued with Prophet Muhammad regarding salat and other rites if you were living at that time. You would have said to Prophet Muhammad that he was doing the salat wrong because the Quran does not tell us to do it this way. And your timing is wrong as well, you shall perform salat 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, ....times a day.

And if you were living after prophet Muhammad died (within 30 years or so), you would have said the same thing to the follower of Prophet Muhammad who has learned to perform salat from Prophet Muhammad.
This shows you up so much.

This is the absurdity you and your friends are propagating here. You can never succeed.

Then why is it you and your friends that cannot ever answer a straight question?

Now lets look at your other verses you have given in your attempt to have some other book and hadith other than God's followed.

32.24, please refer to 32.23 and you will see it relates to the people of Moses and the prophets given to them.

7.179 tells about people like yourself, more misguided than cattle and totally unaware.

Ayisha

How would you know it is the ninth moon?

With this question he implying the following

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did not know when the ninth moon was i.e. when the Ramadan is.
For certain, Prophet Muhammad knew when the Ramadan month was and the night of destiny
WayFinder wants us to believe that Prophet Muhammad did not know it and hence his follower did not know it. Otherwise why would he ask such a foolish question.
The reference point has been established by Prophet Muhammad which has been propagated to us via continuity and blessings of Allah
Only the wicked people will disregard the truth.

the great logical deductions again!

No it doesnt, It reinforces what has been written many times that you seem totally blind to or possibly do not have the ability to understand what is being said. Baby steps for you
-the c a l e n d a r that was in use at the time of the prophet was not the islamic one used now
the prophet would definitely have known when it was and how to know it. He was the one that got the message when using the calendar at that time, not the one used now. the lunar calendar used now was brought into force after the prophets death
No that is not what wayfinder is saying nor is anyone else. Nor is it a foolish question considering all the new things that have been brought into Islam since the death of the prophet. What is foolish is to think that nothing has changed since his death, even when what you are looking at as proof wasnt there a few hundred years after his death. Think hundreds of years, not one or 2. Within days of Moses and his brother preaching God's message to his people they started worshipping a calf! D A Y S. Within weeks or months of the prophet's death there were more than 12 different sects! What is foolish is not even seeing this or considering the possibility and being lazy enough just to assume the ones that teach you know the right stuff and following that regardless because you feel comfortable in that cattle mode blindly following what you are told and not having to devote any brain time on it.
The reference point was established by Allah and followed by Muhammed, after his death they changed the calendar and it is not followed now. The continuity it by saying 'its ramadan now' as the ramadan period the prophet followed was ramadan then and for over 1300 years at a loss of 11 days a year between calendar then and calendar now is a quite out of sync with when God says it was and Muhammed followed.

Really I am trying to explain this in very simple terms, sorry if it's gone right over your head but if you used your brain more it would work better. It is like any other part of your body and needs exercise.

I absolutely 100% agree with you.

Mazhar

How would you know it is the ninth moon?

A person who is mentally Okay pesistently, and does not undergo spells of stupidity intermittently like some of our friends on this forum, always knows as to which is the month of the year he is living in. Only a lunatic getting back to senses may not be able to know immediately as to which is the month he is passing through.

Mazhar

No it doesnt, It reinforces what has been written many times that you seem totally blind to or possibly do not have the ability to understand what is being said. Baby steps for you
-the c a l e n d a r that was in use at the time of the prophet was not the islamic one used now
the prophet would definitely have known when it was and how to know it. He was the one that got the message when using the calendar at that time, not the one used now. the lunar calendar used now was brought into force after the prophets death

And by the way who has told you these "baby steps" which are litterally a talk of a baby who thinks these are "gems"

Mazhar

The reference point was established by Allah and followed by Muhammed, after his death they changed the calendar and it is not followed now. The continuity it by saying 'its ramadan now' as the ramadan period the prophet followed was ramadan then and for over 1300 years at a loss of 11 days a year between calendar then and calendar now is a quite out of sync with when God says it was and Muhammed followed.

What specific change was brought in the calendar?

I could not make out anything of the red part. Will you please break it and make it simple.

Ayisha

A person who is mentally Okay pesistently, and does not undergo spells of stupidity intermittently like some of our friends on this forum, always knows as to which is the month of the year he is living in. Only a lunatic getting back to senses may not be able to know immediately as to which is the month he is passing through.

do you have daylight saving time in Pakistan? If it is 2am now and the same time tomorrow it is 1am is it really 2am or 1am?

This is September, if someone decided to change the calendar and decide there were not 365 in a year but 354 and as of today this new calendar would start as month one day one and call it January 1st, would it be January 1st that we can base the 9th month of September on?

Ayisha

And by the way who has told you these "baby steps" which are litterally a talk of a baby who thinks these are "gems"

could you clarify the question, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Ayisha

What specific change was brought in the calendar?

I could not make out anything of the red part. Will you please break it and make it simple.

8 pages and another 2 or is it 3 threads and you are still playing dumb? Cant make that any simpler and if you haven't got it by now then you never will, so stop trying.

guest

With this question he implying the following

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did not know when the ninth moon was i.e. when the Ramadan is.
For certain, Prophet Muhammad knew when the Ramadan month was and the night of destiny
WayFinder wants us to believe that Prophet Muhammad did not know it and hence his follower did not know it. Otherwise why would he ask such a foolish question.
The reference point has been established by Prophet Muhammad which has been propagated to us via continuity and blessings of Allah
Only the wicked people will disregard the truth.

the great logical deductions again!

The true color of your buddy (WayFinder) has been exposed and he realizes it and went into hiding. And you being what you are grabbing on to his falsehood and trying to mislead other by claiming FALSEHOOD = TRUTH. You will not succeed!!

No it doesnt, It reinforces what has been written many times that you seem totally blind to or possibly do not have the ability to understand what is being said. Baby steps for you
-the c a l e n d a r that was in use at the time of the prophet was not the islamic one used now

And you know this because you saw a vision when you and your buddy were practicing voodooism on a full moon night in the summer solstice. And this is your evidence of truth. How awful!!!!!

We use the calendar system that has been established by Prophet Muhammad. It has been preserved for us (believer).

You seem to think that if I start a new calendar today, my fasting month would be inconsistent from that of Prophet Muhammad. This is the thinking of ignorant, immature and wicked people. I will demonstrate this via an example which I posted in the Hot Ramadan debate thread (Re Hot/"ramadan" Answer ? Reply #2087 on October 01, 2009, 042507 PM ?).

As usual, Ayman doesn?t know what he is talking about. He turns a simple matter into a complex and complicated thing. This is his nature. I will illustrate Ayman?s ill thinking using a simple concept that uses Prophet Muhammad as the reference point. Other prophets can be used just as well.

Arbitrary Months 1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12
(Pre Quranic)

Prophet Muhammad 1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12
(Receive revelation)

Prophet Muhammad 1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12
(Defines Calendar)

Prophet Muhammad has the authority to define the arbitrary pre-Quranic months into Islamic months/calendar. Thus, Prophet Muhammad establishes the Islamic calendar with 9 as the month of Ramadan because that?s when he received the revelation from the God. Henceforth, by definition the calendar cannot be called arbitrary anymore. Thus, the Islamic calendar has been canonized by Prophet Muhammad.

Now, guest wants to establish an Islamic calendar with new initial point (mark or month 1)

Islamic Calendar 10---11---12---1---2---3---4---5---6----7----8----9
Guest Calendar 1---2----3----4---5---6---7---8---9---10---11---12

As a God fearing person, I would have to maintain synch with Prophet Muhammad defined month of Ramadan. Therefore, in Guest calendar, Ramadan is performed in the month 12. This way I have a different calendar, yet fasting in the same physical timeframe, even though Guest month is 12 and Islamic month is 9. Similarly, I can move the initial point to any point in time without compromising the calendar defined by Prophet Muhammad.

This is so simple, yet, Ayman doesn?t get it.

223 - Among the people, there are those who argue about GOD without knowledge, and follow every rebellious devil.

224 - It is decreed that anyone who allies himself with him, he will mislead him and guide him to the agony of Hell.

Ayisha, since your faulty logic on calendar has been exposed, I suggest you go into hiding with WayFinder and kick each other?s hiney.

No that is not what wayfinder is saying nor is anyone else. Nor is it a foolish question considering all the new things that have been brought into Islam since the death of the prophet. What is foolish is to think that nothing has changed since his death, even when what you are looking at as proof wasnt there a few hundred years after his death. Think hundreds of years, not one or 2. Within days of Moses and his brother preaching God's message to his people they started worshipping a calf! D A Y S. Within weeks or months of the prophet's death there were more than 12 different sects! What is foolish is not even seeing this or considering the possibility and being lazy enough just to assume the ones that teach you know the right stuff and following that regardless because you feel comfortable in that cattle mode blindly following what you are told and not having to devote any brain time on it.

This is the straw that breaks the camel's back. You need to get your head examined!

You have the nerve to equate Moses?s people with believers who fought with Prophet Muhammad with their life and money in the cause of Allah. You are truly a lost soul. Reflect on the following verse

7179 - We have committed to Hell multitudes of jinns and humans. They have minds with which they do not understand, eyes with which they do not see, and ears with which they do not hear. They are like animals; no, they are far worse - they are totally unaware.

hope4

Selam

I think a point has been missed here. The Quran's description of Ramadan does not rely on any calander but naturally occuring phenomena. This meaning that at any point if an error is made in the calander system for any reason the actual timming of Ramadan could easily be determined by Allah's natural laws which we could easily witness around us. This way no one could lead no one else astray as the phenomena does not require mans input. Anyways, this is my understanding of the situation, Allah has given us free will to choose.

May Allah's guidance be with us.

Peace

Ayisha

Selam

I think a point has been missed here. The Quran's description of Ramadan does not rely on any calander but naturally occuring phenomena. This meaning that at any point if an error is made in the calander system for any reason the actual timming of Ramadan could easily be determined by Allah's natural laws which we could easily witness around us. This way no one could lead no one else astray as the phenomena does not require mans input. Anyways, this is my understanding of the situation, Allah has given us free will to choose.

May Allah's guidance be with us.

Peace

yes that is the point that is trying to be put across. As the calendar has changed there must be some way to know using the signs that Allah gave us and not using a man made calendar system at all, hence how would you know its ramadan if you woke up on a desert island.

Ayisha

And you know this because you saw a vision when you and your buddy were practicing voodooism on a full moon night in the summer solstice. And this is your evidence of truth. How awful!!!!!
you are insane.

We use the calendar system that has been established by Prophet Muhammad. It has been preserved for us (believer).
and dumb