Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
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We were not talking with reference to any verse. We were talking about the question for which you also pressed for answer.
Where did I get?
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/027.%20An%20Naml/27.54.gif
"Do you people come to illicit sexual activity and you people openly watch it/do it in group"2754
aah right, your translation.
Did you not see the red underlined Arabic word of the text? You translate it keeping in view the plurality and mood of the verb and see what does it mean and connote.
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Did you not see the red underlined Arabic word of the text? You translate it keeping in view the plurality and mood of the verb and see what does it mean and connote.
doesn't say anything about doing it in groups in public. It is plural because he is saying it to a group of men outside his door. The 'see' part is more of a 'don't you get it?' than 'watching', its not watching its seeing, there is a difference. There is also a difference in seeing with the eyes and seeing with the mind, ie giving thought to something. 28.72 is a good example of what I mean, same word used but there is nothing to 'see' or 'watch' and is more 'think'.
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Ayisha
Raj, when did you answer for mazhar, there are plenty of unanswered questions of your own.
I think Mazhar is more knowledgeable than me and does not need me to answer for him.
Since, you kept on answering for many do whom i had conversation with.
And surely that has been repeated for many times now, NO ONE CAN ANSWER YOU. -
Ayisha
I think Mazhar is more knowledgeable than me and does not need me to answer for him.
then why did you?Since, you kept on answering for many do whom i had conversation with.
And surely that has been repeated for many times now, NO ONE CAN ANSWER YOU.I have not answered 'for' anyone else and I have managed to answer questions put to me.
Are you saying no one has knowledge, including you, to answer questions about claims that you have made? So you are admitting here that you have made claims about things you cannot back up and really have no knowledge of.
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Ayisha
Are you saying no one has knowledge, including you, to answer questions about claims that you have made? So you are admitting here that you have made claims about things you cannot back up and really have no knowledge of.
Yes no one can answer to a brain that is protected so heavily.
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doesn't say anything about doing it in groups in public. It is plural because he is saying it to a group of men outside his door. The 'see' part is more of a 'don't you get it?' than 'watching', its not watching its seeing, there is a difference. There is also a difference in seeing with the eyes and seeing with the mind, ie giving thought to something. 28.72 is a good example of what I mean, same word used but there is nothing to 'see' or 'watch' and is more 'think'.
You admit there is difference in watching and seeing. Yet you can not even see that the word used and underlined by me with red line is for watching not seeing. Watch is only when one focuses upon a thing. And Basr can be used only when one focuses and watches and is therefore also used to perceive and conceive the perception. Arabic is a precise language.
And I had asked you to also see the plurality and mood of verb which only reflects that they did it openly and in group, everybody watching/focussing as is done in recording of porno movies. And if you see the conjunction "waw" in the beginning of the subordinate clause/sentence which is called it would have confirmed you that it is describing the state in which the described act they used to perform as habit.
And I give you one more information about the sentence indicating the reason of my translation, object of the verb has been omitted.
And remember this is not about the episode of last days when people had gathered at his door.
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You admit there is difference in watching and seeing. Yet you can not even see that the word used and underlined by me with red line is for watching not seeing. Watch is only when one focuses upon a thing. And Basr can be used only when one focuses and watches and is therefore also used to perceive and conceive the perception. Arabic is a precise language.
And I had asked you to also see the plurality and mood of verb which only reflects that they did it openly and in group, everybody watching/focussing as is done in recording of porno movies. And if you see the conjunction "waw" in the beginning of the subordinate clause/sentence which is called it would have confirmed you that it is describing the state in which the described act they used to perform as habit.
And I give you one more information about the sentence indicating the reason of my translation, object of the verb has been omitted.
And remember this is not about the episode of last days when people had gathered at his door.
How is that used for watching and not seeing when the same word is used in 28.72 as I pointed out, what is being 'watched' in that verse? 43.51 same, what is being watched? 51.21 same, what is being watched? None of these verses refer to watching something or even seeing something with the eyes but with the mind. One can 'focus' the mind as well as the eyes. Plainly 'do you not get it'
What makes you say this is not the episode when people were gathered at Abrahams door? because its in a different verse? You did the same with Zakaraya asking for a child when it was 2 instances of the same event. This again is telling of the same event.
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Ayisha what makes you say that at the time of prophet Lut, there was no public sex. At least Mazhar has presented his evidence, you not agree with that, you seldom do, but I want to see any counter evidence, a historical or other wise. If you can that will help.
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Ayisha what makes you say that at the time of prophet Lut, there was no public sex. At least Mazhar has presented his evidence, you not agree with that, you seldom do, but I want to see any counter evidence, a historical or other wise. If you can that will help.
Mazhar has presented evidence of public sex where exactly? he has presented his view of a translation that NO OTHER translator has come up with.
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Mazhar has presented evidence of public sex where exactly? he has presented his view of a translation that NO OTHER translator has come up with.
i am not sure, but let us say I agree with you. At least he has presented his translation, which he not made at once, it was already there on his site. What is your proof for negating that there wasn't any group or public sex at time of Prophet Lut?
he presented following argument in his favor
Mazhar
You admit there is difference in watching and seeing. Yet you can not even see that the word used and underlined by me with red line is for watching not seeing. Watch is only when one focuses upon a thing. And Basr can be used only when one focuses and watches and is therefore also used to perceive and conceive the perception. Arabic is a precise language.
And I had asked you to also see the plurality and mood of verb which only reflects that they did it openly and in group, everybody watching/focussing as is done in recording of porno movies. And if you see the conjunction "waw" in the beginning of the subordinate clause/sentence which is called it would have confirmed you that it is describing the state in which the described act they used to perform as habit.
You do not agree but where is yours for not agreeing. Many same words are used with different meanings at different places.
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Ayisha
I gave it.
Ayisha
doesn't say anything about doing it in groups in public. It is plural because he is saying it to a group of men outside his door.
No! you just disagreed with his translation as usual. Where is your proof that there was no public or group sex at times of LUT?
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AyishaAyisha
No! you just disagreed with his translation as usual. Where is your proof that there was no public or group sex at times of LUT?Oh get real! Where is the proof that there WAS? That is NOT proof there was. He made the claim and 'backed it up' with rubbish and has not even come back and answered what I have said AGAINST his perverted translation. the other verses I used against his argument were referenced to HIS translations of those verses. Now if you want to take his place and answer for him as opposed to answering anything for you, than please look at the verses I gave and tell me what is being WATCHED in them.
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peace all,
I only recently read his discussion on 56 and 443 and found it lacking. He only briefly utilised/mentioned Quran concordance, and committed some logical fallacies whilst he was at it.
That does not mean he is wrong however, it simply means based on what he said, it is far from proven.
His work is still on my reading list however.
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Dear All,
Any body read the above books in which Dr Qamaruzzaman rejects Salat and Hadith as being against the Qur'an. You can download English PDF Versions of all three books at www.aastana.com.
Mubashir
Salam.
In my understanding, someone who rejects Salat and Fasting as being against Quran have lost their way, and don't even deserve to be read. That's what is good about the Criterion that we have.
Other similar self-styled deviant cases that called their whims Islam include at least Dr. Shabbir, and, Pervez (who is listed on this website for some strange reasons). -
peace,
In my understanding, someone who rejects Salat and Fasting as being against Quran have lost their way, and don't even deserve to be read. That's what is good about the Criterion that we have.
Firstly, no-one who follows Quran can reject "salat", so the way in which you phrased this part is incorrect. Perhaps you meant to say "prayer".
Secondly, "sawm" does not mean "fast" if you are using the conventional English definitionfast
verb (used without object)
1.
to abstain from all food.
2.
to eat only sparingly or of certain kinds of food, especially as a religious observance.
verb (used with object)
3.
to cause to abstain entirely from or limit food; put on a fast to fast a patient for a day before surgery.
noun
4.
an abstinence from food, or a limiting of one's food, especially when voluntary and as a religious observance; fasting.
5.
a day or period of fasting.It means "abstinence", this is fairly clear from Quran. From aastana, the dispute seems to be abstaining from what.
Other similar self-styled deviant cases that called their whims Islam include at least Dr. Shabbir, and, Pervez (who is listed on this website for some strange reasons).
No-one is perfect, but the above two names you mention have made some solid points on some issues.
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Salaam hope4,
Selam
I have recently read Haqeeqat Saum and find the arguments against saum not meaning fasting very plausible. Is there any other articles out there which argues against fasting?
Peace be apon you all.
Reality of the Fasting Month of Ramadan
Please give us your thoughts on it. )
