A Qur'anic Challenge
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Peace All,
After reading the selective definition plucking of our friend Apple Pie throughout the forum, I've come to the conclusion that approaching the Qur'an with a premeditation will prove fruitful in what one seeks.
In other words, using the tools of Qur'anic dictionaries and reknowned lexicons, one can pluck out certain definitions among the many, look for ways to tie these selections to other selections, and consequently derive a strong case for almost whatever one wishes.
I think if any of you have access to these resources and is willing to take part in this experiment, it would provide a fascinating and educational example of what preconceptions can do.
The important thing to remember is that one does not need to remain consistent throughout the entire Qur'an. One only needs to compile several ayat to paint the picture they desire.
Unfortunately, I am awaiting the arrival of my reference books so I am ill-prepared to put forth a viable effort.
Is anyone up for this challenge?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay D ,
I just wanted to say I'm happy to see you caught that out, and then put it nicely...
In other words, using the tools of Qur'anic dictionaries and reknowned lexicons, one can pluck out certain definitions among the many, look for ways to tie these selections to other selections, and consequently derive a strong case for almost whatever one wishes.
We see what we want to see.I'm afraid I'm not up to the challenge though, due to time constraints and lack of tools to boot. It would be interesting to see what one can come up with. But for me, the results are clear. Just like the "bin ladens" who can come up with mass murder using verses and other text... the same can be said of any doctrines or ideas.
So let me ask you this, Tay, that being the case (that the book/words can be manipulated)... what do you (or me, or anyone) have to fall back on, 100%, that will never fail you, that you will KNOW, that you're on the right path? idea
Peace!
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peace be upon you,
I agree with you Tay, anybody can take random and rare definitions from untrustworthy dictionaries to make the entire reading seem like its talking about whatever they want it too as Apple is doing, you can do this with just about any translation in any language if you wanted to
So let me ask you this, Tay, that being the case (that the book/words can be manipulated)... what do you (or me, or anyone) have to fall back on, 100%, that will never fail you, that you will KNOW, that you're on the right path? idea
Peace!
my theory is a pure literal translation that is consitentely translated throughout the entire book, plus through self-reference to see if the definitions used are correct, root words of the word within the reading would also aid in a more correct definition, if not self-reference then through dictionaries or ancient arabic inscriptions could provide possible aid but their definitions must not only fit within the context of the sign (ayah) but within the context of the message and the reading in general, I think this technique has been used very faithfully here by the people at free-minds and is the best I have seen yet, I would stick with it unless a better one is discovered
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Peace Zenje,
I'm happy that you're happy!
So let me ask you this, Tay, that being the case (that the book/words can be manipulated)... what do you (or me, or anyone) have to fall back on, 100%, that will never fail you, that you will KNOW, that you're on the right path?
One word, malaika.
4130 But, behold, as for those who say, "Our Lord is Allah," and then remain steadfastly upright ? upon them descend angels, saying, "Fear not, and grieve not, but hear good news of the Paradise that you are promised.?
Have you ever heard the angels?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace and blessings Tay,
Have you ever heard the angels?
Yes... I'm sure you have too. But whether we listen, is a whole 'nother story.
How 'bout this for one word? - GOD.
And they have not given God His true worth. The whole earth is within His fist on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above what they set up.
)
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Peace Zenje,
Yes... I'm sure you have too. But whether we listen, is a whole 'nother story.
It is indeed. But for me, that is the confirmation, that is my 100% surety, when I do listen. The ultimate cross-reference, I feel, is the nafs. And the nafs is whom the malaika communicate with.
How 'bout this for one word? - GOD.
I can't argue with that.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Idris,
my theory is a pure literal translation that is consitentely translated throughout the entire book, plus through self-reference to see if the definitions used are correct, root words of the word within the reading would also aid in a more correct definition, if not self-reference then through dictionaries or ancient arabic inscriptions could provide possible aid but their definitions must not only fit within the context of the sign (ayah) but within the context of the message and the reading in general, I think this technique has been used very faithfully here by the people at free-minds and is the best I have seen yet, I would stick with it unless a better one is discovered
I agree that this is a very sound method of analysis. I also agree that free-minds has been faithful to it for the most part. This has had a contagious effect, as it seems more and more people are adopting this diligent approach.
Peace,
Tay -
Salaam Tay,
Peace All,
In other words, using the tools of Qur'anic dictionaries and reknowned lexicons, one can pluck out certain definitions among the many, look for ways to tie these selections to other selections, and consequently derive a strong case for almost whatever one wishes.
I think if any of you have access to these resources and is willing to take part in this experiment, it would provide a fascinating and educational example of what preconceptions can do.
The important thing to remember is that one does not need to remain consistent throughout the entire Qur'an. One only needs to compile several ayat to paint the picture they desire.
That is why Imam Ali, it is believed, taught that one should not use the Quran to prove a point.