Quran only mistakes
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I hate to break this to you, but you do know he died 1378 years ago don't you?
How can he be the judge in our disputes NOW?
The Messenger is gone, but his Message is with us, and by his message, which is contained in the Hadeeth, we are commanded by Allaah to make him as the judge in all our disputes.
It is interesting also to note that the Messenger of Allaah said
Verily, I have been given the Book, and something like it. But a time will come in a man on a couch will say to you, "we have this Quraan, so whatever we find in it as permissible, so it is permissible, and whatever we find in it as forbidden, so it is forbidden..."
Now see how true this prophecy has been fulfilled!
now look what happens when you reject the Sunnah of the Prophet , you go astray and enter into doubt, and having doubt is a sign of faithlessness and misguidance
Currently I am in doubt about a few vowels and words and verses in the currently existing written quraan being from the one God
Th Truth is from your Lord, so be not at all in doubt!
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The Messenger is gone, but his Message is with us, and by his message, which is contained in the Hadeeth, we are commanded by Allaah to make him as the judge in all our disputes.
How? What he judged by when he was alive was quran. How can you go to him NOW and ask him to judge in any dispute now? You have a dispute right here and right now, did you ask him to judge in this dispute for you? How will you do that?It is interesting also to note that the Messenger of Allaah said
Verily, I have been given the Book, and something like it. But I time will come in a man on a couch will say to you, "we have this Quraan, so whatever we find in it as permissible, so it is permissible, and whatever we find in it as forbidden, so it is forbidden..."
Now see how true this prophecy has been fulfilled!
see how this is NOT a prophesy from Quran. Prophets dont invent their own prophesies, they come from Allah.now look what happens when you reject the Sunnah of the Prophet , you go astray and enter into doubt, and having doubt is a sign of faithlessness and misguidance
Th Truth is from your Lord, so be not at all in doubt!
We have no doubt, you do have doubts, you do not believe what the Quran says.
Allah says it is complete and fully detailed, all that you need for your salvation is to THINK and REFLECT on what it says. His signs ARE all around, yet your eyes are closed.
As Quantum1 said, it is THE BEST Hadith. You it seems do not believe it is complete and fully detailed and want to find details in those other books written by man, men born over 200 years after the prophet died.
Allah says Do they not reflect on the Quran? If it was from any other than God they would have found in it many a discrepancy. (482), which hadith is FULL of. If you do not agree to that then you confirm you have NEVER read them apart from the odd one picked out to make your point. Go sit and read the 9 (Abridged) volumes of Sahih Bukhari, or Maliks Muwatta even better, then tell me there are no contradictions, tell me you actually believe that our prophet would have SAID and DONE some of those rediculous and even sick things, but do this AFTER reading Quran from cover to cover and THINKING about it. Then come tell me that Muhammed in Quran and the Muhammed in hadith are the same.
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Hadith are not rumors or hearsay. They are the words of the Prophet (peace be upon him) narrated by his Companions. They were not created 200 years after the Quraan, they were compiled (as in collected and written down) much earlier than that. For example, the Muwatta of Imam Malik was compiled in the before the third century Hijri, quite early on. In fact, many ahadith were compiled even before that, within the first century of Islaam, such as the Sahifah of Hammam ibn Munnabih, a student of the companion Abu Hurairah, and the Musannaf of Abdur Razzaq as-Sanaa'i.
So first study the history of Hadith before you make such ignorant statements.
Mlik ibn Anas ibn Malik (c. 711 ? 795 or 100 years later)
Thus you advocate;
a goat responsible for eating a missing surah,
the killing of puppies especially black ones,
the marrying 9 year olds and cutting her hand for stealing an egg,
attribute bizarre vile grotesque behavior and want people to follow.This verse doesn't address my challenge, which is to show a single verse from the Quraan which says only the Quraan is revealed by Allaah to the Prophet (peace be upon him)
Sure it does, you cannot comprehend a simple sentence and lack basic logic; here lets simplify it...
22 this the book no doubt in it (i.e. this book, not other books), a guidance (hello!) for those mindful of God.
Now your turn; why keep running away skip answering; afraid it will be a witness against you?
Post one hadith "no doubt in it" swear by God stake your soul you'll be cursed if it is not true?
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In the Quraan, Allaah says He has only forbidden four things to eat 1) dead meat, 2) blood, 3) pork, 4) any meat upon which other than Allaah's Name has been pronounced Therefore, for those who follow only the Quraan as guidance, all other meat is permissible, including dog meat, cat meat, snake meat, eagle, hawk, etc.
Yet we know for a fact that these animals and their meat is just as impure as the pig, and that is why we know from the Hadeeth that the Messenger of Allaah prohibited the eating of any animal that has fangs, and any bird that has talons.
But you as a "Quraan-only" follower will have no problem eating the impure meat of dogs, cats, snakes, and eagles. You claim to follow the way of Abraham, but actually you are following the way of pagans, chinese, etc., who eat these impure meat. Even in the Torah, these impure meats are forbidden.
So yes, the Quraan is indeed fully detailed...NOT because it contains all the instructions and regulations for our guidance...but because it tells us to obey the Messenger and to take whatever he allows us, and abstain from whatever he forbids us.
The Quraan is not fully detailed in the way you think, otherwise why would Allaah not mention in the Quraan that dog meat, cat meat, snake meat, etc., is forbidden, and why in the Quraan would He tell us to take everything the Messenger allows, and abstain from everything He forbids?
This is a way of thinking typical by hadith followers
1 you adhere to a complicated set of rules
2 you can't find support for these rules in the Qur'an
3 you conclude that the Qur'an must be deficientI have never eaten these strange meats you mention, nor ever felt the temptation - perhaps this is simply something a God-fearing human need not be told? Or maybe God is fine with people eating eagles and snakes? (how do you know "for a fact" that they are impure without relying on hadith?)
Either way it's a non-issue and the Quran stays fully detailed and guidance enough for the believers.The same line of reasoning is commonly applied to how we pray
1 sunnis place tremendous importance on the outer form of the ritual prayer (which foot gets washed first, where are hands placed when standing, number of rakas etc.)
2 there's no mention in the Qur'an about these things
3 sunnis conclude that the Qur'an is deficient.To me it seems much more likely that God places little or no importance on which foot we wash first, where we place our hands or how many times we "go through the motions".
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I have never eaten these strange meats you mention, nor ever felt the temptation - perhaps this is simply something a God-fearing human need not be told? Or maybe God is fine with people eating eagles and snakes?
Look how you yourself are in doubt and cannot seem to make up your mind! On one hand you are saying God-fearing humans automatically don't need to eat dog meat or snake meat or eagle meat, therefore it is not mentioned in Quraan, on other hand you are saying maybe God doesn't have a problem with eating these impure animals!
So you are woefully contradicting yourself.
Fact of matter is, if it is automatically part of one's conscience not to eat dog meat, so why do some many millions, maybe billions of people eat dog meat and snake meat (especially in East Asia, China, Korea, Vietnam)?
Allaah says in the Quraan that He has only forbidden pork, blood, dead meat, and meat sacrificed in the name of other than Allaah. That means, for you "Quraan-only followers", everything else is good to eat for you, including dog and snake (how disgusting!)
(how do you know "for a fact" that they are impure without relying on hadith?)
In Quraan, verse , and , Allaah tells us that the duty of His Messenger is to tell us the good things we are allowed, and the impure things which are forbidden. If everything is already laid out in the Quraan, why Allaah tells us to obey the Messenger in this regard?
Either way it's a non-issue and the Quran stays fully detailed and guidance enough for the believers.
what kind of guidance is that which you are saying that dog meat and snake meat is good and lawful? That is not guidance, except the guidance of the Devil.
1 sunnis place tremendous importance on the outer form of the ritual prayer (which foot gets washed first, where are hands placed when standing, number of rakas etc.)
My friend, the Quraan itself tells us the tremendous importance of the outer form of the Salaat, including which parts of the body to wash during ablution (i.e. face, hands up to the elbow, to rub the head, and the feet up to the ankles), as well as the command to bathe the entire body for major ritual purification
If the outer form of the prayer is not important, why the Quraan goes into so much detail about the ablution and method of purification?
To me it seems much more likely that God places little or no importance on which foot we wash first, where we place our hands or how many times we "go through the motions".
the Quraan says to obey the Messenger , who said "Pray the way you see me praying".
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Thus you advocate;
a goat responsible for eating a missing surah,
the killing of puppies especially black ones,
the marrying 9 year olds and cutting her hand for stealing an egg,
attribute bizarre vile grotesque behavior and want people to follow.Sure it does, you cannot comprehend a simple sentence and lack basic logic; here lets simplify it...
22 this the book no doubt in it (i.e. this book, not other books), a guidance (hello!) for those mindful of God.
Now your turn; why keep running away skip answering; afraid it will be a witness against you?
Post one hadith "no doubt in it" swear by God stake your soul you'll be cursed if it is not true?
I believe in all authentic ahadeeth which have no doubt in it at all.
I swear by Allaah that each and every authentic hadeeth which is proven to be the words of the Prophet is evidence, as Allaah Himself says to take witnesses as evidence.
The authentic ahadeeth are narrated by many witnesses with unbroken chain of narrators, and fulfills the criterion of Allaah to investigate and verify any news that comes to us with witnesses
Even if you study the history of the compilation of the Quraan, you see that it was also compiled during the caliphate of the third Khaleefah, 'Uthmaan ibn Affaan , who had each and every single verse of the Quraan testified to by witnesses.
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Fact of matter is, if it is automatically part of one's conscience not to eat dog meat, so why do some many millions, maybe billions of people eat dog meat and snake meat (especially in East Asia, China, Korea, Vietnam)?
its called cultural differences. one thing that may seem disgusting in one culture may be the norm in another culture. in australia ppl eat kangaroo meat.apparently its very healthy, lean meat. but i fr one would never like to willingly eat it.why? because it says so in the quran? no way. its coz i dont like the idea of it. same thing with dog meat and snake meat. btw many of my sunni friends have tried snake meat. putting that aside though, coz u cant judge a belief by its followers, God has set certain parameters in the quran that ur not supposed to break.
by saying that the prophet claimed things other than the ones mentione din the quran as haram, ur saying that the prophet added to the religion, which he did not. He was just a messenger and explainedhow to live out the quran, he did not come to add to it.Allaah says in the Quraan that He has only forbidden pork, blood, dead meat, and meat sacrificed in the name of other than Allaah. That means, for you "Quraan-only followers", everything else is good to eat for you, including dog and snake (how disgusting!)
first of all the thing u added in brackets is seriously offensive and indicate how close minded you appear to be. secondly,in order to understand a different culture u have to stop thinking in themindset of ur present one. u eat lamb/goat/chicken/cow/camel? well a vegetarian could easily come up here and tell you that he/she finds u disgusting. please dont display such intolerance and write offensive comments on this forum.
In Quraan, verse , and , Allaah tells us that the duty of His Messenger is to tell us the good things we are allowed, and the impure things which are forbidden. If everything is already laid out in the Quraan, why Allaah tells us to obey the Messenger in this regard?
BECAUSE THE PROPHET IS THE ONE TRANSMITTING THE MESSAGE. over here obeying God in the quran and obeying messenger is the same thing because the messenger is telling teh ppl wat God wants him to say. this line is not just reserved fr prophet muhammad, but also fr other prophets mentioned in the quran, if im not mistaken. so many verses of the quran start with "Say...".."" THAT is wat the prophet said fr sure, THAT is wat were supposed to follow, because if we dont follow the prophet, were not following approximately 1/3 of the quran.
o please, not evrything should be seen through the monoslit glasses that u view the world with. many countries have cultures that do that. if u were born in a country where dogs were being sold fr meat instead of chicken im sure we wudnt be having this debate.
the Quraan says to obey the Messenger , who said "Pray the way you see me praying".
id love to, except that he isnt with us anymore. and i knowbetter than to let so called scholars dupe me into believing stuff abt him that doesnt make sense and that doesnt feel right.
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Even if you study the history of the compilation of the Quraan, you see that it was also compiled during the caliphate of the third Khaleefah, 'Uthmaan ibn Affaan , who had each and every single verse of the Quraan testified to by witnesses.
ah , so u believe that usman took care of the preservation of the Word of God and not God himself? interesting. now i see why u think the way u do.
btw, i see that u think there are a couple of hadith that u dont believe..thts intersting...though why would u advocate a book that even u dont believe in entirely, and consider to possibly be erroneous in some areas? -
Peace
I do find this discussion mildly entertaining. So people who reject ahadeeth eat dogs, cats and snakes ? now that's a new one! http//www.imagebanana.com/img/wg5lygwz/00008242.gif
But I don't understand why you people waste your time replying to some troll who just repeats the same old arguments we've read countless times in articles, books, pamphlets and on internet sites about "the authority of sunnah". If that person was genuinely interested in other opinions or viewpoints he would have read some of the existing threads since each and every point he raises has been addressed and debated ad nauseam. It is obvious he is only here to stir things up and entertain himself.
)u eat lamb/goat/chicken/cow/camel? well a vegetarian could easily come up here and tell you that he/she finds u disgusting.
I am a vegetarian and I find this indeed disgusting.
Ah, but wait ? being a vegetarian is probably haram too, since I'm supposed to follow the prophet in how he ate, dressed, slept and went to the bathroom.
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Peace
I do find this discussion mildly entertaining. So people who reject ahadeeth eat dogs, cats and snakes ? now that's a new one! http//www.imagebanana.com/img/wg5lygwz/00008242.gif
But I don't understand why you people waste your time replying to some troll who just repeats the same old arguments we've read countless times in articles, books, pamphlets and on internet sites about "the authority of sunnah". If that person was genuinely interested in other opinions or viewpoints he would have read some of the existing threads since each and every point he raises has been addressed and debated ad nauseam. It is obvious he is only here to stir things up and entertain himself.
)Funny. I was thinking the same thing.
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oh well..u hv to keep on trying sometimes, maybe the person might understand..but if he/she doesnt then its safe to agree to disagree. no harm in trying. if hes genuinely trying to keep an open mind and try to learn instead of repeating the same thing, then good on him. if hes not then i wont continue with a pointless debate. but i do find this thread topic amusing. new argument posted plus im fresh meat here, so havent got that sick n tired of old arguments just yet O0
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Yes Leyna I've been concerned about your haram behaviour laugh
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who is the best of mankind and the closest to Allaah, used to eat meat and drink milk and honey. When one of his Companions wanted to give up meat, he told him that this was wrong. Anas reported that there was a group of the Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), one of whom said, ?I will never marry women?; another said, ?I will not eat meat?; another said, ?I will not sleep on a bed?; and another said, ?I will fast and never break my fast.? News of this reached the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He praised and thanked Allaah, then said ? What is wrong with the people who are saying such and such? I pray and I sleep; I fast and I break my fast; and I marry women. Whoever deviates from my Sunnah (way) does not belong to me.? (Reported by al-Nisaa?i; the story is also to be found in the two Saheehs of al-Bukhaari and Muslim).
http//www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/2521
& & &
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what kind of guidance is that which you are saying that dog meat and snake meat is good and lawful? That is not guidance, except the guidance of the Devil.
I honestly don't know if snake or dog meat is good and lawful. The issue hasn't come up for me. I haven't prayed or reflected much over it. It is a non-issue in my daily life. Pig's flesh on the other hand is everywhere where I live, and I avoid it since God instructs me to not eat it in no uncertain terms.
My friend, the Quraan itself tells us the tremendous importance of the outer form of the Salaat, including which parts of the body to wash during ablution (i.e. face, hands up to the elbow, to rub the head, and the feet up to the ankles), as well as the command to bathe the entire body for major ritual purification
If the outer form of the prayer is not important, why the Quraan goes into so much detail about the ablution and method of purification?
Thank you for making my point for me. God obviously wants us to be clean before seeking to be near Him, and has left us detailed instructions for achieving this cleanliness. People have later added to His divine instruction (nasal rinsing, doing things thrice, right before left and so forth) and also added a whole set of things that supposedly destroy one's ritual cleanliness. They then make a logical somersault in concluding that since the Qur'an does't instruct them to do things the way their fathers/scholars taught them, the Qur'an is lacking in detail, which goes directly against what the Qur'an says about itself.
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Allaah says in the Quraan that He has only forbidden pork, blood, dead meat, and meat sacrificed in the name of other than Allaah. That means, for you "Quraan-only followers", everything else is good to eat for you, including dog and snake (how disgusting!)
And as has been mentioned, your argument is based on the strawman fallacy that eating such meat is wrong.
What is you answer to this?
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I hate to break this to you, but you do know he died 1378 years ago don't you?
How can he be the judge in our disputes NOW?
How can you obey him NOW?
By following what he followed, which is Quran.
You really need to open your eyes my friend. peace
I?m surprised by your ignorance
The messenger is alive in his grave he can see and hear also. >(
http//www.beautifulislam.net/prophethood/alive_in_grave.htm
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Look how you yourself are in doubt and cannot seem to make up your mind! On one hand you are saying God-fearing humans automatically don't need to eat dog meat or snake meat or eagle meat, therefore it is not mentioned in Quraan, on other hand you are saying maybe God doesn't have a problem with eating these impure animals!
Allaah says in the Quraan that He has only forbidden pork, blood, dead meat, and meat sacrificed in the name of other than Allaah. That means, for you "Quraan-only followers", everything else is good to eat for you, including dog and snake (how disgusting!)
Dog tastes like the brown meat on the chicken. Not so tasty in my opinion, ate it once in an Indian version of McDonalds. The term hot dog became very literal.
Snake tastes a bit like crocodile, hard to find an exact reference.
Eagle, who eats eagle?Are you basing your definition of an impure animal as something with a fang or talon? I don't get it because there are numerous animals without fangs or talons that can be considered impure to eat, leeches for example....But then of course there are not many leeches in the middle east so how could they include that in the hadith...
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i do find this thread topic amusing. new argument posted )
Haha yes I can relate to being fresh and therefore not being sick of it. Plus this is highly amusing. Especially now - thanks afridi220, Leyna and others.
@ Leyna - laugh Well, it HAS to be the truth as it was "found in the two Saheehs of al-Bukhaari and Muslim" yes hmm
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I?m surprised by your ignorance
The messenger is alive in his grave he can see and hear also. >
http//www.beautifulislam.net/prophethood/alive_in_grave.htm
So he was buried alive? I can assure you after over 1300 years he is dead, he cannot hear your prayers nor see you, check Quran.