The concept of "Sin"
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Peace,
So this knowledge leaves me with a couple of thoughts
- What is alfahsha
- What is a alhasana
-Where does ma`roof and munkar come in
"al fahisha" = immoderateness/foulness/something that transgresses beyond limits/excessiveness
"al munkar" = violating good values/vice (opposite of "ma'roof"
"al ma'roof" = kindness/righteousness (opposite of "munkar""al sayiaat" = inequity/evil deed (opposite of "hasanat"
"al hasanat" = something which creates a balance/something that benefits others/good deed (opposite of "sayyiat""ithm" = harm, something that brings down the human self
I think that there is no concept of "sin" according to The Reading, as there is in the Catholic Church. "Sin" implies/can imply that the bad deed only goes against oneself, whereas the terms useed in The Reading are more about harming others, but also oneself. Also, concerning the concept of forgieveness... I need to look that up a bit. I think that God does forgive, since he is "raheemun" (clement/merciful/compassionate) and "afwuwun" (pardoning/overlooking of imperfections/bad deeds). However, we shouldnt forget the following
11114 ...Inna alhasanati yuthhibna alssayyi-ati thalika thikra lil-ththakireena
11114 ...Cetainly, actions that creat a balance in society/good deeds take away the ill effects of inequiteies/bad deeds. This is a reminder for those who remember.
586 The day when God resurrects them all, then He informs them of what they had done. God has recorded it, while they have forgotten it. God witnesses all things.
2884 Whoever comes forth with a good deed (hasanat), he will receive a better reward. Whoever comes forth with a bad deed (sayyiat) then the retribution for their bad deeds will be to the extent of their deeds.
996 On that day, the people will be brought out in throngs to be shown their works.
997 So whoever does an atom?s weight of good (khayran) will see it.
998 Whoever does an atom?s weight of evil (sharran) will see it.3953 Say, "O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of God's mercy/compassion ("rahma". For God "yaghfiru" all misdeeds. He is "al ghafooru", the compassionate/clement ("al raheemu".
Gh-Fa-Ra = protect, cover over, hide, shield, helmet, forgive, pardon, to ask for protection/forgiveness.
You might want to read this post by Arnold Yasin Mol, which is about the concept of "sin", "forgiveness", etc.
One should commit good deeds that benefit others in order to balance out the bad deeds that one has done, rather than just asking for forgiveness and thinking that it is enough.
654 If those who acknowledge Our signs come to you, then say, "Peace be upon you, our Lord has decreed mercy upon Himself, that any of you who commits a bad deed out of ignorance and then repents afterwards and reforms/ammends, then He is forgiving, compassionate."
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Very interesting topic; one which I often think about.
As allegorical as the quran is, I view God's 'emotions' in the same vein. Allah being 'angry' with an act or 'loving' an act is mere symbolism for discord/harmony in one's actions vis a vis the moral laws Allah has imbued us with. The law of requital. My actions/thoughts/deeds, good or bad, affect my Self, good or bad. Positive actions elevate my Self, akin to working out or eating well and thereby benefitting the physical body. Negative actions denigrate and stain my Self, burdening it and lowering it.
Acknowledging those negative actions, and correcting them, reverse the the negative staining process (taubah) and result in my Self's 'forgiveness.' Hardly a divine dictator who metaphorically bangs his gavel and deems me forgiven; rather, the laws created by the creator 'judge' me into a positive or negative state, depending on the relevant action.
If I hold a candle to my hand, and burn it, can I direct anger at Allah who undoubtedly created the physical law that dictates said candle burning my hand? Hardly. Along the same line of thought, merely asking for my hand to heal from Allah won't heal it; rather, I have to obey other laws Allah has created (e.g. the law that a certain herb soothes and repairs my burnt skin) in order to 'forgive' my past transgression of the fire-burns-flesh law. Similarly, if I commit a negative moral action, thereby staining my Self, I cannot simply ask Allah for forgiveness; the way I 'ask' Allah for forgiveness is by obeying the moral laws he has imbued the universe with.
I don't know if you've read G.A. Parwez's Islam A Challenge to Religion. If you haven't, I highly recommend it. The book is online for free; here's one chapter that is relevant to the topic at hand http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/ICR/ICR_9.htm
Peace.
Well said. I agree.
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Abdullah_m
I think Quranically sin can cause harm against us and others. I mean it all depends on what the sin is..
Dunno too much about karma or Buddhist. But generally in life it?s a cause and effect. You eat too much you get fat and that?s the saye2a on us. Doesn?t really harm anyone except ourselves. A different example call someone by a bad name it harms another?s feelings and well it?s bad on us because well many reasons.. it depends why name call but i guess it shows intolerance.
I think i know what you mean, are you trying to make me visualise ?sin? differently? Like not necessarily an x next to my name or a black dot on the heart as traditionalists would think of it but rather something that causes/harm and suffering and by avoiding it less suffering/bad out comes happen. Or by doing good we remove lessen the bad/suffering.
Progressive1993
i agree i don?t believe the Quranic concept is the same to Christian or Catholic church. The Quran uses different words to associate with all things ?bad? which are to be avoided which harm us and others.
I think they (fahisha, munkar, sayiat) can be categorised as thanoob (faults, wrong deeds, sins?)
At least fahisha, and oppressing our self is under this ?thanoob?
? 3135 (Asad) and who, when they have committed a shameful deed (fahisha) or have sinned against themselves (zalamu unfusahom), remember God and pray that their sins be forgiven - for who but God could forgive sins? - and do not knowingly persist in doing whatever they may have done.
Verse 3953 makes me think all the other bad/harms can be associated with thanoob.
3953 (Asad) SAY ? ?O you servants of Mine who have transgressed against your own selves! Despair not of God?s mercy behold, God forgives all sins (Allah yaghfiru althunooba jami`an) - for, verily, He alone is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace!? ?
Thanks for the link, i?ll look into it later inshallah.
One should commit good deeds that benefit others in order to balance out the bad deeds that one has done, rather than just asking for forgiveness and thinking that it is enough.
sure off course, read this verse
495 (Asad) SUCH of the believers as remain passive - other than the disabled - cannot be deemed equal to those who strive hard in God's cause with their possessions and their lives God has exalted those who strive hard with their possessions and their lives far above those who remain passive. Although God has promised the ultimate good unto all , yet has God exalted those who strive hard above those who remain passive by a mighty reward -
Also another thought
4521 (Asad) Now as for those who indulge in sinful doings (saye
ati) - do they think that We place them, both in their life and their death, on an equalfooting with those who have attained to faith and do righteous deeds? (amlaou salihati) Bad, indeed, is their judgmentA person who does ?amal salih is better than one who does saye?at but we can amend our ways, as you have mentioned. Ultimately the good deed is to our benefit.
Peace.
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sin is sthing thats confusing me a bit at this point in time....are there some sins that God cant/wont forgive? shirk..understood God has said wont be forgiven if the person hasnt repented and reformed in this life..but wat abt murdering someone? or raping?
the punishment for murdering is upto the family of the one who was murdered according to the quran...seems fair to me...does that mean that those sins which end up hurting other humans cannot be forgiven by God, that the person who has been wronged has to hv a say in it? if God forbid i get raped or murdered then do I hv a say inhow the person would be punished? it seems unfair if God just forgives the murderer/rapist...for other sins (those that dont hurt others) i think it makes sense to repent and reform God may forgive if u mean it. but there are clear worldy punishments for rapists and murderers, and the wronged ppl hv a say in how the person should be punished....so does tht mean that God cant forgive sins which hurt other humans apart from ourselves?
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Peace sis,
We can?t play God and say this and that will happen, this person is forgiven that person isn?t.
3129 (Asad) whereas unto God belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth He forgives whom He wills, and He chastises whom He wills; and God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace
Quran implores asking of forgiveness and turning back to good. That being said a person doesn?t automatically become forgiven. This is unknown at least one would live on that hope that they are forgiven based on God?s trust.
3135 (Asad) and who, when they have committed a shameful deed or have sinned against themselves, remember God and pray that their sins be forgiven - for who but God could forgive sins? - and do not knowingly persist in doing whatever they may have done.
the word thanb (thanubakom) is used for example in verse.
331 (Asad) Say "If you love God, follow me, God will love you and forgive you your sins; for God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace."
Are all acts of ?sin? considered thanb? What acts of forgiveness are given are all words used? I know i?ve seen fahisha used not sure about others, needs to be looked up.
Also God makes a CLEAR distinction between people who do evil and good. People who continue to intentionally sin and people who turn back or are God conscious
3828 (Asad) would We treat those who have attained to faith and do righteous deeds in the same manner as those who spread corruption on earth? Would We treat the God-conscious inthe same manner as the wicked?
Just because all acts are forgiven except shirk it doesn?t open the door for sinning. nor does it make you = to a person who hasnt transgressed. e.g. person does an unrighteous deed, seeks forgiveness, that's between them and God not the man/women and the rest of the world in rank. As what makes us better than one another? our God consciousness. you and I can't measure that.
A believer is one who will amend mistakes do wrong and turn back to god/good. Otherwise they become a munafiq, a hypocrite. And that?s a detested identity. There?s a whole chapter on munafiqun 63.
I don?t recall reading if a person is raped killed only their family can seek forgiveness on the soul.. What if their family is unaware? what if the family transgress their authority?
In the hereafter is not God the most fair ultimate judge?
Peace
P.S Rizona we've read your thread, might be more appropriate to leave it there or share it on salat thread, this isn't about salat
peace.
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I believe ithm , meaning sin is a different concept than the chrestians, jews , sunnis ....., Sin is everything that is no good for an individual, or society, that's why allah everytime he says avoid it, he never says you will be pusnished in the hearafter for that, but you will be punished if you don't make eforts to avoid it, because allah said La youkalifou allaha nafssa illa wousaaha, we are he building the life that we live in the next life, that"s the whole point of the quran, it's not about hell like a litteral hell, or paradise litterally, because allah said we started the creation and we repeat it, meaning there will be another big bang and another evolution until our time comes
that's what i learned from the quran, i don't know if i am right or wrong -
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Just for contrast, I would like to add the Buddhist perspective, which starts with the concept of suffering.
The four noble truths
Suffering is inevitable in the world due to its transient nature.
The cause of suffering is ignorant clinging to transitory phenomena.
Suffering can be reduced.
The Eightfold Path is how to reduce it.Now the interesting thing to me is how sin is primarily all about me and what I've done wrong and how I'll be punished, while suffering takes into consideration the harm that my sin causes other beings.
Can you see the difference?
Of course, reducing sin also reduces suffering, but there is something slightly more elevated about the perspective of suffering/karma than sin, although they work the same transformation on the soul.
Certain groups of people may be more responsive to one or the other.
It is a digression but how does ignoring reality decrease suffering. I never understood Buddhism.
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Buddhism is incomplete as far as it being a standalone religion.
The Buddha was a Hindu reformer, and his teaching was a real breakthrough in describing the human condition, but his movement was destined to become primarily esoteric and inward. This is why the most common popular image of a Buddhist is the ascetic recluse, sitting under a tree, detached from the world, and so they appear to be ignoring reality.
In fact, like all seekers, Buddhists are probing the depths of the Intellect for authentic knowledge.
I studied and learned a lot from the Buddhist perspective, but I decided that it is too much confined to the present world, in that it refuses to concern itself with objects outside of the human experience. In other words, it was too psychological for me.
The real reason for suffering is revealed to us in the Qur'an. The One who created death and life is testing us to see who is finest in action (67.2), and Allah knows best.
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Sin (i.e. transgression) is different than evil.
Evil is a necessary compliment to Good in a bipolarized universe such as ours. Allah does not "will evil" but rather, evil is like a byproduct. Without evil, the universe would be perfect, and that would make it God, since only God Alone is perfect; but the universe is not God, but rather a projection of the rahmah of Allah in the direction of nothingness. With light come shadows.
What bothers me is how He could create evil creatures that cause harm to the ecosystem with no benefit, blood sucking parasites like mites and mosquitoes and viruses. Is this a punishment?
Why test?
How else are you going to get into the next grade?
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the thing i dont get with this life being a testing ground or even say..a chance to prove to yourself whether u deserve heaven/hell, is that if this is a test then all people should have an equal chance of performing. there are many people in this world who are psychopaths/sociopaths..prone to depression/downsyndrome..how can they be judged on an equal footing? lets say, they are judged in a different way..maybe judged leniently...but its like making a dyslexic 4th grader sit a 10th grade exam..even if u mark the kid leniently,its still not his test to sit through..
for example the punishment for a murderer is either death or forgiveness, depending on the choice of the relatives of the family. suppose that a psychotic killer is behind a series of murderers,,then he should be put to death..but isnt that unfair that he should be subjected to the same laws as "normal people" -
Peace,
Respect.Outstanding subject, sister.
I'd say that sin does exist, it's just that we're told what to do and what not to do in order to avoid sin. We're also told at the same time the results of the sin once the sin is done. We're told of the previous examples, previous people and what they did.If there were no sins, then this world/life would be Paradise.
Paradise is without sins.God knows Best.
Peace. -
What is "equal chance" how can we even differentiate. everyone has diff circumstance.
no situation is equal to another, theyre all different and subjective, personal. it's an ongoing individual journey.. a path to God no ones path is the same or equal.
in regards to psychotics obviously people who are "sick/ill" are exempt off things and God judges them accordingly
would you wanna keep a psychotic killer on the loose? at least s/he'd need some medical help.
also is it unfair? did they subjugate themselves to that position (drugs etc) or did it just happen out of birth/thin air bla bla...
God isn't unjust.
We get tested for what we're able to do and what we do implement, it would be illogical otherwise.
peace.
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wootah, God did not make evil. He didn't create evil. He created human beings who chose to commit evil.
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And how do you propose that to happen in this world without violating nature, logic and free-choice?
it cant happen..thats what Im wondering..if this was a test then what is the point of creating handicapped children etc, who cannot perform at the level of other people...if a possible answer is to show other people how blessed they are, then thats not really fair on the people themselves..
im studying more..insha allah i will have abetter understanding in due time with patience and perseverence..i do not have any alternate answer as to what is the purpose of our life on earth, if not a chance to prove to ourselves whether we deserve heaven/hell...peace sis sarah, i have considered what you said before i posted...it makes sense to some extent. my argument is then why put islamic/quranic laws for all mankind, if all of mankind is not capable enough to fulfill or live up to the requirements.ofcourse it makes sense for a psychotic killer to be put to death, but then again some people are hardwired to be less attuned to emotions..more violent in other words..how can God, with His ultimate justice put the same wordly laws on that person who is less capable of controlling violent urges than other people. there are people who cant help stealing, they dont realise what theyr doing..some people are more prone to depression...why put evryone in the same boat, when there are clearly different situations for every individual on this earth?
