heaven and hell being symbolic
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I am not sure you realise that a metaphora is not a lie. A pearl as a description of a tooth, may not be a pearl, but a tooth is there, and if you think that a tooth is not real, then try being toothless. In fact you can more easily do without a pearl than without a tooth.
To think that hell is just talk, because it is not the fire you fear, is reckless, it may be much worse. The fire description is just to give you a hint of what you cannot comprehend because you do not have the command of what is being described in the same way that a blind is not in command of colors when you describe "green". How do you describe "green"? You get satisfied that it is nothing because when it is being described to you as being fresh or peaceful you are told that those are just allegories, and therefore you conclude that green is nothing? You will know what it is in due course a regards hell or paradise. May God have mercy on us.
Salaam
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Salaam
No I will always stay committed, don't worry
Many people who steal / get bribes or commit sins without getting caught live large and happy. Maybe a few have guilty conscience but majority of them are pleased with their lives. They do their best to maintain their lifestyle without getting interrupted.
How will these people get punished if it's all metaphorical ?
Salam,
I personally disagree with that unless you have experienced it. not everyone who does an ill deed without getting caught lives large and happy. even if that is the case, everyone will be accounted.
2141 (Asad) "Now those people have passed away; unto them shall be accounted what they have earned, and unto you, what you have earned; and you will not be judged on the strength of what they did."
2284 (Asad) Unto God belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth. And whether you bring into the open what is in your minds or conceal it, God will call you to account for it; and then He will forgive whom He wills, and will chastise whom He wills for God has the power to will anything.
2913 (Asad) Yet most certainly will they have to bear their own burdens, and other burdens besides their own; and most certainly will they be called to account on Resurrection Day for all their false assertions! - youm qiyama they will be held accounted.
Also for arguments sake let's say it's metaphoric as you're thinking, metaphors are symbolic to something and basically you can identify jannah as something good and jahannam as something bad.
you're not working for nothing.
2212 those who believe and are God conscious will be above those who kafarou on youm alqiyama
3198 Those who ittaqw Allah, have jannat
477 the akhira is greater for the ones that TQW Allah
1335 Jannah is promised to the muttaqeen
1545 Muttaqeen will find themselves in jannah
1631 Jannah is the reward for muttaqeen
2515 Jannah is promised for muttaqeen
2690 Jannah will be in sight for the muttaqeen
3973 Jannah is for those that TQW
4715 Jannah is promised for muttaqeen
5115 Muttaqeen will find themselves in jannah
5217 Muttaqeen will find themselves in jannah
6834 Muttaqeen will have jannah1257 the reward is greater in hereafter if the ones that yattaqoon
12109 Dar alaikhira is better for the ones that TQW Allah
1630 Dar alaikhira will be the state of the dar almuttaqeen?
1630 Darr alaikhira is greater for the muttaqeen
2883 Darr alaikhira is for the muttaqeen2452 those who yatq will triumph
5100 those who TQW will be in a happy state
1972 those who TQW will be saved -
Hi,
I've read some posts supporting this type of belief of heaven or hell. My question If heaven or hell are just some metaphors in the reading then what's the point of following divine commands ? If I'll be nothing after I die like atheists claim, then I'm stupid that I'm still chaste not in some orgy or at some frenzy weed parlay you know knocking myself out. Why do I choose the hard way then ? I could live the way I want. Some people here even claimed that people who are ungrateful (kafirs) are living hell on earth. It's just a state of mind. I bet you they don't ) at least most of them. For instance The Quran speaks of these people who have wealth and are ungrateful advises the prophet "to let them live and enjoy the worldly life" (I don't remember the ayat no.)
Not sure you're fully grasping the meaning of metaphor/symbolism.
"Metaphor" does not mean the concept it is representing is unreal.
"Symbol" does not mean the thing which it symbolizes is unreal.
Descriptions of reality, in this context, can be literal or metaphorical. Your mistake is in assuming (and it is very much an assumption) the only descriptions that are real are the literal ones.
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OOT; at first I thought you're BornAgain (from Sydney) then I realized this is a different person -\
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yes I realized that too, we have similar nicknames lol. I'm an older member of the forum but haven't been much active.
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How could something beyond this world be made present by what is part of this world--in its entirety and not in approximation?
Can you say that again.. i don't get it?
born_again try finding the verse
BTW following the divine commands has many benefits you reap what you sow and nothing can beat contentment from the heart.
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well, this is an online forum with supposedly a persistent database, duh, so you can just read it again
anyway, this is no more a cool one-liner but i hope you get what i'm saying
How could something beyond this world ("heaven", "hell" be made present (narrated, illustrated, visualized, explained, exposed, materialized, experienced) by what is part of this world (that is, especially, you and your languages)--in its entirety and not in approximation?
"Contentment from the heart" could be an example of such approximation within ourselves.
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Hi,
I've read some posts supporting this type of belief of heaven or hell. My question If heaven or hell are just some metaphors in the reading then what's the point of following divine commands ? If I'll be nothing after I die like atheists claim, then I'm stupid that I'm still chaste not in some orgy or at some frenzy weed parlay you know knocking myself out. Why do I choose the hard way then ? I could live the way I want. Some people here even claimed that people who are ungrateful (kafirs) are living hell on earth. It's just a state of mind. I bet you they don't ) at least most of them. For instance The Quran speaks of these people who have wealth and are ungrateful advises the prophet "to let them live and enjoy the worldly life" (I don't remember the ayat no.)
You could choose to be in orgies or the like (I know you're just using that as an example) but realize that, THAT is a life of misery. Think of all the diseases you can catch etc. Not to mention the psychological pain you'd suffer. The people who choose this kind of life are almost unanimously miserable on the inside. What looks great on the surface may not yield the best results! 2216 Warfare has been decreed for you while you hate it; and perhaps you may hate something while it is good for you, and perhaps you may love something while it is bad for you; God knows while you do not know
It is the universal law of cause and effect.
I like this quote "That's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy, it would be the way."
For instance The Quran speaks of these people who have wealth and are ungrateful advises the prophet "to let them live and enjoy the worldly life" (I don't remember the ayat no.)
It's not so black and white i.e. in each and every situation
732 Say "Who has forbidden the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say "It is for those who believe in this worldly life, and it will be exclusive for them on the day of resurrection" It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.
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Peace San,
How could something beyond this world be made present by what is part of this world--in its entirety and not in approximation?
By addressing the part of us that is not from this world. This is why the descriptions of heaven and hell are allegorical since they address our imagination.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace San,
Are you saying that the entire heaven and hell is at this moment within your imagination?
Nope. What I am saying is that at the moment our mind can't begin to understand heaven and hell without our imagination.
In the ending we will understand the truth but it will be too late then.
Our imagination will be the fuel of hell.
On the other hand, there will be no imagination in heaven. You won't need it.
Peace,
Ayman
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OOT; at first I thought you're BornAgain (from Sydney) then I realized this is a different person -\
OOT as well. For a split second I frowned and wondered, "When on earth did I post this thread?". Then realised it was different person. Well, I know I have a werewolf tendency and my name's gotta do with the moon, but no, I am not a werewolf points at born_again's avatar. Yet.
And back on the topic, I personally believe that hell and heaven exists, but not in the form that most people imagine. For me, hell does not neccessarily mean, or is limited, to physical torture (burning fire, scorching heat, black smoke). The worldly imagery is used to help people grasp a tiny bit of the concept of hell, because it is a concept beyond imagination. Same goes with heaven. It's a place, or a state of being, where only good exists. Whether it has gorgeous men serving me a platter of fresh fruits or giving me a thai relaxation massage with aromatic oil ( ), it doesn't really concern me. It helps me envision a fraction of how good heaven can be, but I believe it is beyond that.
That being said, why not try create heaven and abolish hell on earth? And see how good that feels ).
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An approximation that serves as a "reminder".
Thanks for the echo.
Personally i'd say that i am aware of things that i don't know/understand and am happy to accept such unknowns as a mystery yet to be uncovered. (It's not like i'm under the pressure to understand and to claim to have the answer to everything at this moment)
You guys sound like you belong in a buddhist temple. Do I see what I look at or do I look at what I see? hmm group
Zen, Emil, rejoice in the presence, be still as the water and do nothing...
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Our imagination will be the fuel of hell.
On the other hand, there will be no imagination in heaven. You won't need it.
Beautiful sentences