(Another) personal investigation of salat
-
That leaves the problem of the "middle prayer".
A salaat is obligatory only if it is timed (4103). And since you can not find a time which is defined with a beginning and an end for any salaat other than the morning and evening salaats, the so-called middle prayer is not valid. The people who claim it to be valid have to either define it by referring to its beginning and end or give up their claim. It actually is a matter of believing in the words of God, who says that the salaat is timed.
I am not sure that 2187 mentions a specific time for Fajr since it is referring to fasting...
There is no need to be unsure. The appearance of the white thread at the break of the light corresponds to its disappearace at the fall of the dark. Just as its disappearance defines a salaat time at ghasaqi allayl, so does its appearance define another salaat time at fajr.
Actually those are the times when the approaches of the night (zulafan mina allayl) rise up to their start in the evening and fall down to their end in the morning (11114). In other words, the approaches of the night are from sunset to nightfall in the evening, and from fajr to sunrise in the morning.
Peace,
Hasan Ak?ay -
The middle prayer is definitely there
"Guard strictly your (habit of) prayers, especially the Middle Prayer; and stand before Allah in a devout (frame of mind)."
Qur'an 2238
There are different claims about what is meant by "middle" (e.g. if it is the right word) but ultimately its time-frame is suggested in 1778
"Establish regular prayers - at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony."
i.e. from noon 'til sunset, or the decline of the visible sun (below the horizon) 'til nightfall. Each prayer has a fixed time. I would need to know the exact words for "fixed times" in Arabic since it might imply fixed periods.
Do you advocate two salawat each day?
Peace.
-
Salaam MesMorial. Thanks for intending to learn what I advocate in terms of number of obligatory salawat each day. I advocate 2.
I can't see in the Quran a so-called "middle prayer" to be performed in an allocated time-span with a beginning and an end, which is a must for it to be obligatory according to 4103. The time for the salati al-wusta mentioned in 2238, for example, is so unclear that you can not even tell whether it is noon time or midnight.
If I remember correctly, adverb wusta in "as-salati al-wusta" has been discussed in detail in this forum and decided that it means moderate, which covers all salawat. That is, the evening salat and the morning salat and the salat on the cogregation day are all to be performed moderately, without resorting to the extreme. Please refer to Al-Israa 110, where God says "Neither speak thy prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course in between."
Peace,
Hasan Ak?ay -
Salaaman MesMorial,
Salaam and many thanks.
That leaves the problem of the "middle prayer"... -[
I am not sure that 2187 mentions a specific time for Fajr since it is referring to fasting...but nevertheless.
Peace.This is how I understand the "Middle Prayer"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601300.0
May Allah guide us all towards His path.
Mohammed M. Khan -
Maybe the wusta, middle prayer in the friday prayer, or paybe sat wusta isn't a prayer at all, salah too has multiple meanings in the quran
is there a jumaa prayer ? if there is, what is it's time ?
Duluk shams = The rubbing of the sun, that is exactly when it is setting while u still see it, well, i am not 100% sure, but many arabic speaking people told me that ,
The salat duluk shams to Ghasak a layl = 1 time range , so the evening is one salat
The fadjr is easy , it is one salat, starts when the stars satrt fading away, that is when the 1 st daylight start until the complete daytime right before the sun start going up2 parts of the day and close to the night ( some interpret it part of the night ) still , if we say one part of the day to closer part of the night, and the other one two, the oether part of the day and close to the night
it can also be interpreted as 2 prayers of tarafay nahar ( extreme parts of the day ) and on the night ( as another prayer) even this one is 2 plus one nafila, for there is a verse that says night time there is nafila et not obligatoryEvery prophet had the celebration Ashi wa ibkar or bukratan wa assila or ghodou wa lassal , these too, they all go for the two parts of the day and this is the prophets
Let's see the prayers of the prophets
This comment isn't final, still researching, but so Far logic keep taking me for two salats , Fadjr and Isha plus joumouaa
I have a problem defining a time for jumuaa if it is really a salat prayer, or salat wusta, if jumuaa is salat wusta than there is no problem, it is at noon, for it is right in the middle
well , this is what i think for nowbrook
Tarafay annahar = the two parts of the day (litteraly)
they're not on the night, they're on the day side, it is part of nahar (daytime) not layl ( night time)
one start at the begining of the fading of the stars and ends at right before sunrise ot at sunrise ( i am not sure )
Isha starts at the rubbing of the sun to ghassaq allayl ( beggining of the darkness ) or in another verse Zulfan mina layl,(close to the noght ), when it's completely night, it starts a nafila, time of isha is gone
this is what i think about it, what do u think ? -
Salaaman LoxBox......13,
Everything is very clear in AlQuraan by Allah's grace... Alhamdulillahi Rabbil Aalameen.
Please have a look at my understanding below
Maybe the wusta, middle prayer in the friday prayer, or paybe sat wusta isn't a prayer at all, salah too has multiple meanings in the quran
is there a jumaa prayer ? if there is, what is it's time ?
4103
4103 So, when you have completed the contact prayer, then remember Allah while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. So, when you are relieved, then make the contact prayer straight. Indeed, the contact prayer for the believers is a timed schedule.
What are the timings then? There are three Salaat timings as follows
Salaat AlFajr 2458
Salaat AlEshaan 2458
Salaat AlWusta 2238Detail about Fajr time 2187
Detail about Eshaan time 3831 or 3830-32
Detail about Wusta time 589As I explained in http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601300.0
Wusta is referring to Salaat AlJuma and timings are self-explanatory. How?
2238 is talking about Salaats and when it says Middle that means in Middle of the two regulars Salaat. No, no, not daily, only on Juma day. Please refer 629
Lets have another look to see weather Middle time is fit for Salaat AlJuma or not.
629
629 O you who believe, if the contact prayer is called to at the Friday, then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of Allah, and cease all selling. This is better for you, if only you knew.
Here, when were you selling? I mean at what time... at Fajr or at Eshaan? Fajr is not possible, cause before Fajr you are not selling anything, but that is time .... 2458
So, Salaat AlJuma is not at Fajr. Confirmed!
6210
6210 Then, once the contact prayer is complete, you shall disperse through the land and seek the provisions of Allah, and remember Allah frequently that you may succeed.
You see, here, seek the provisions of Allah... When? After Eshaan? No, look at 2458
Salaat AlJuma is not at Eshaan, confirmed!
That means Salaat AlJuma is not at Fajr and not at Eshaan time... then, what is the time?
Middle of Fajr and Eshaan times.
Hope you understand inshaAllah.
2 parts of the day and close to the night ( some interpret it part of the night ) still , if we say one part of the day to closer part of the night, and the other one two, the oether part of the day and close to the night
it can also be interpreted as 2 prayers of tarafay nahar ( extreme parts of the day ) and on the night ( as another prayer) even this one is 2 plus one nafila, for there is a verse that says night time there is nafila et not obligatoryIt is really easy to understand 11114 inshaAllah. Please have a look...
1778
Aqimi AlSalaata = Single Salaat
11114
Aqimi AlSalaata = Single Salaat
Hope this help inshaAllah.
Every prophet had the celebration Ashi wa ibkar or bukratan wa assila or ghodou wa lassal , these too, they all go for the two parts of the day and this is the prophets
Let's see the prayers of the prophets
None of the above aayat talks about Salaat... Please take a close look, No Salaat word is used.
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.
Mohammed M. Khan
-
peace mmkhan,
You provide no time-range for what you call the "middle salat", which is present for the fajr and isha timings. This and other points has been discussed here for example
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0Personally, I have not seen anyone prove more than two daily salat from The Quran.
And as for salat al juma, see reply 11
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12309.0 -
mmkhan
Does the word Sabbih mean salat or non ? I see too people interpret it as salat, how many types of salat there is in the quran, i know it has multiple meaning for allah did salat on the prophet, the prophet did salat on the believers etc.... plus somewhere where salat has nothiing to do with salat times etc... u understand where i am confused?
Why salat wusta is in between a sbject of family rules, god was talking about marriages and all than he says hafidou aala salat wousta than keep talking about rules of family and divorce etc..... u see my confusion ? what prouves that salat wousta is a time for salat from the verses? -
Salaaman Wakas,
Thank you for the links, inshaAllah, I will go through them.
You provide no time-range for what you call the "middle salat", which is present for the fajr and isha timings. This and other points has been discussed here for example
Time range for Salaat is already mentioned in 1778 and that range follows the other Salaats as well.
Like the way/procedure of Salaat is mentioned in 4102, the same goes for all the Salaats.
It does mean that all Salaats does not have different time range.
Personally, I have not seen anyone prove more than two daily salat from The Quran.
Yes, I agree. Even I believe the same, Alhamdulillah.
peace mmkhan,
You provide no time-range for what you call the "middle salat", which is present for the fajr and isha timings. This and other points has been discussed here for example
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0Personally, I have not seen anyone prove more than two daily salat from The Quran.
And as for salat al juma, see reply 11
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12309.0May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan
-
Salaam Loxbox...13,
Does the word Sabbih mean salat or non ? I see too people interpret it as salat,
Salaat is called Salaat in AlQuraan.
Sabbih is called Sabbih in AlQuraan.
Dzikr is called Dzikr in AlQuraan.
etc. etc...Same as
Naas is called Naas in AlQuraan.
Mo'min is called Mo'min in AlQuraan.
Kafir is called Kafir in AlQuraan.
Nabi is called Nabi in AlQuraan.
Rasool is called Rasool in AlQuraan.
etc. etc..We cannot mix the words or we cannot change it meanings. Why not others interpret the meaning of Mo'min as Non-believers. Cause they understand there, then why not about Sabbih???
how many types of salat there is in the quran, i know it has multiple meaning for allah did salat on the prophet, the prophet did salat on the believers etc.... plus somewhere where salat has nothiing to do with salat times etc... u understand where i am confused?
Salaat is simply Salaat, no more, no less.
Salaat simply means "Link". It can be translated at 'connection' or 'linking' or 'contact' or something similar.I did not understand what you mean by "somewhere where salat has nothiing to do with salat times etc".
Why salat wusta is in between a sbject of family rules, god was talking about marriages and all than he says hafidou aala salat wousta than keep talking about rules of family and divorce etc..... u see my confusion ? what prouves that salat wousta is a time for salat from the verses?
OK...
Allah talks about multiple things in a single aayat, as 1785
1785
1785 And they ask you concerning the Spirit. Say The Spirit is from the authority of my Lord; and the knowledge you were given was but very little.
This aayat talks about two different things. One part talks about 'AlRooh' and the second talks about 'Knowledge in general'. Second part is NOT ONLY referring to AlRooh but it includes AlRooh.
And the one you are talking about is already separated by aayaats. That means, they are in different aayaats, no matter what is it talking about.
Hope this helps, inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
peace mmkhan,
Salaat AlFajr 2458
Salaat AlEshaan 2458
Salaat AlWusta 2238Detail about Fajr time 2187
Detail about Eshaan time 3831 or 3830-32
Detail about Wusta time 589As I explained in http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601300.0
- Can you clarify the relevance of 589 with "wusta"?
- Provide us with your translation of 3830-32
- Provide us with your translation of 11114
- Your answers to the issues raised here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0
- Provide us with your time-range for your "al salat al wusta"
Thanks.
