Proof Qur'an-alone is Error
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The problem I come across is that Muslims I know, one in particular, always quote 'Obey Allah and His Messenger' 'fear Allah and obey me'. It gets to the point where I just give up, Although it all makes sense in my head and everything I am reading and learning, I am just not knowledgable enough to explain my position with any authority.
Simone -
The problem I come across is that Muslims I know, one in particular, always quote 'Obey Allah and His Messenger' 'fear Allah and obey me'. It gets to the point where I just give up, Although it all makes sense in my head and everything I am reading and learning, I am just not knowledgable enough to explain my position with any authority.
SimoneI'm going to give you my straight out opinion right now - this is how I feel at the moment. It will always come back to that - whether a person believes we have to follow hadith or not and the problem with that is that I can see how they reach that conclusion. If you interpret the Quran in a certain way then that is what it tells you. It certainly doesn't tell me that, but I feel pessimistic sometimes about arguing the point because I admit that I don't know that much and also most of the people I end up having this sort of conversation with don't know that much either. You can know plenty, but if you're talking to someone who just wants to stick to the belief they have then you will go nowhere.
I guess that is what Allah meant 218 Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not revert.
Plus they have such blanket statements to make which pretty much leave me unable to say anything I don't understand abrogation, Arabic, history and so on and on and on. In a way they have a point since real argument is dependent upon an understanding of how to translate the Quran and while that is possible for people, the reality is that it's going to be a long time before any great number of Muslims are doing that for themselves and waking up to the fact that they've been duped.
In the meantime my guess is that many more will become non-practicing Muslims and even leave Islam because they don't connect (unconsciously) with the Islam that holds majority today. The still practicing Muslims will no doubt blame this on lack of faith, the influence of the west and the deserters "lack of understanding".
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I am a convert and to me it is very plain if my conscience and honest feeling and thinking took me to islam, now, after I am a Muslim, honest conscience feeling nd thinking must be suspended in order tht I can follow somebody else's conscience, feeling and thinking? Why shouldn't I then have stayed where I was and where I was told what I had to believe and what not? Itis shockingly self-serving and club-like. Sometime it feels just like tht, tht youhve to accept the club rules in order to be in. But religion is not a club. It is a lien which is based on sincerity towards oneself and the others. As a hadith says "religion is sincerity", or something of the sort. And I put a hadith, because this one, like many others, I consider valuable, not because it comes from the Prophet, which it could or could not, but because what it says has a sense, a meaning and a teaching. And that is what I uphold, that he same as I choose Islam because I found the Qur'an convincing, whay should I follow any other criteria when dealing with hadith or with whatever? It is content that decides, not purported pedigree. Is one going to buy a piece of gold on somebody's wordsor is one going to ascertain by him or herself or going to that trouble when the the piece in question has plainly all the attributes of tin or even shit.
One thing there is, even after relinquishing reliance on anything else than Qur'an is that still we may want the Qur'an to say whatever feels better for us and commit thereby a fraude against ourselves. We have to be very careful before thinking that if we do not extract the meaning we think is right the Qur'an may disappoint us. In fact we may be missing something so plain and so brilliant not even we, modern, progressive thinking people, may be too shy to even conceive or hope.
Salaam
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The problem I come across is that Muslims I know, one in particular, always quote 'Obey Allah and His Messenger' 'fear Allah and obey me'. It gets to the point where I just give up, Although it all makes sense in my head and everything I am reading and learning, I am just not knowledgable enough to explain my position with any authority.
SimoneSalaam simonejamilla,
I do recommend this link. http//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/qhi/qhi.html
Peace,
Khalil -
The problem I come across is that Muslims I know, one in particular, always quote 'Obey Allah and His Messenger' 'fear Allah and obey me'. It gets to the point where I just give up, Although it all makes sense in my head and everything I am reading and learning, I am just not knowledgable enough to explain my position with any authority.
SimoneSalaam.
Chapter 60, vese 4
There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah. we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone" But not when Abraham said to his father "I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah." (They prayed) "Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance to Thee is (our) Final Goal.Does this mean that there are two gods? No.
Obey God and His messenger also does not mean that there are many books to be followed.God knows Best.
Peace. -
Salaaman Simone,
The problem I come across is that Muslims I know, one in particular, always quote 'Obey Allah and His Messenger' 'fear Allah and obey me'. It gets to the point where I just give up, Although it all makes sense in my head and everything I am reading and learning, I am just not knowledgable enough to explain my position with any authority.
Simone2334
2334 And if you obey a human being like you, then you will indeed be losers.6116
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of Allah; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.You can understand the meaning of 'Itaa'at' from the above quoted aayaats, inshaAllah.
Now we will go back to your question-
1723
1723 And your Lord decreed that you shall not serve except He, and do good to your parents. When one of them or both of them reach old age, do not say to them a word of disrespect nor shout at them, but say to them a kind saying.If someone don't have his parents alive or lets say an orphan, how will he apply this aayat to himself?
This clearly means that this aayat is not applicable to him.
Same goes with Prophet Mohammed, how can we obey him if he is not available now?
Another way to understand...
480
480 Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed Allah; and whoever turns away, We have not sent you as a guardian over them.As per your understanding or may be not...
AlQuraan = Allah's Itaa'at
AlHadith = Rasool's Itaa'atIf so, then as per 480 above. If one obeys the messenger, that means AlHadith, then he obeyed Allah.
In other words. If someone follow AlHadith then he is actually followed Allah... then no need for AlQuraan.
If you understand 480, it clearly says that obeying Allah and obeying AlRasool is same, i.e., AlQuraan. Cause, Allah sent AlQuraan and AlRasool gave it to us. So, if you follow AlQuraan that means you are obeying Allah and AlRasool.
Hope this help, inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan
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Salaam quantum1 and all,
Please have a look at http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601702.0
Dear readers, peace
I respectfully disagree with all the explanations put forth by the esteemed forum members to abdullah's point.
I will try to explain my understanding, and the god knows best.
THE BOOK in the quran can have different meanings depending on the context. It can be referring to the quran, or the master book containing record of everything, or the book containing a record of our deeds which is part of the master book.
What does "The Book" in 4070 refer to?
Those who deny the Book (al-kitaab), and what We have sent Our messengers (plural) with. Therefore, they will come to know. (4070)
The context is clearly the Last Day (4071-77)
"The Book" in 4070 cannot be the quran because of the contradiction it causes as per abdullah.
"what we have sent our messengers with" in the same sign cannot be the signs in the horizons and within ourselves because those signs were not sent with the messengers
"what we have sent our messengers with" cannot be only the quran because of the word "messengers" plural.
"what we have sent our messengers with" cannot be the hadeeth of the messengers because then we will need the authentic hadeeth of ALL messengers for our salvation not just of Muhammad.
Careful consideration of the quran reveals that "The Book" in 4070 can only refer to THE BOOK in which our deeds are being recorded which is a part of the master record in which everything is recorded. This understanding is solidified by the context of 4070 which is the Last Day.
Please ponder on the following signs
Who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations? These will receive their recompense from The Book (al-kitaab); so that when Our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say Where are those whom you used to call on besides God? They said They have abandoned us! And they bore witness upon themselves that they were rejecters. (737)
Context is the Last Day just like 4070
And if We let the people taste a mercy after some harm had afflicted them, they take to scheming against Our revelations! Say God is faster in scheming; Our messengers record (yaktaboon) what you scheme. (1021)
They record where? In THE BOOK obviously
And The Book (al-kitaab) was displayed, so you see the criminals fearful of what is in it. And they say Woe to us! What is with this record that it does not leave out anything small or large but has counted it. And they found what they had done present. And your Lord does not wrong anyone. (1849)
Same context of The Last Day
No, We will record (sanuktab) what he says, and We will increase for him the retribution significantly. (1979)
We will record where? In THE BOOK obviously
So whoever does good works and he is a believer, then his efforts will not be rejected and We will record it (kaatiboon) for him. (2194)
We will record where? In THE BOOK obviously
This is Our record (kitaabana); it utters the truth about you. We have been recording everything you did. (4529)
Similarly 6919, 837, 8318 refers to the same book.
This is THE BOOK that we cannot deny per 4070.
As to "what we have sent our messengers with" in 4070, it refers to all the books that were sent with the messengers (plural), including the quran. Unfortunately the only authentic remaining out of them now is the quran.
The mistakes in this post are all mine. Only the god knows the complete truth.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam Aleykum, my reply is to Simone, as I have recently been "called out" too, for making a point of double checking every "hadith" that comes my way to see if it is backed up by the Qur'an.
A very good Brother asked me in a group discussion "do you reject the ahadith?"
My reply was "I don't reject any ahadith that is from Allah swt in the Glorious Qur'an, insh'Allah.
I agree that Hadith (the word) can mean statement, narration, story, news, conversation, talk, report. In all of the ways that "Hadith" (the word) in the Qur'an is used http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?root=Hdv if there is an instruction in the Qur'an to follow ahadith outside of the Qur'an then I will submit to the will of Allah swt and obediently do it, insh'Allah. I have found no such instruction, as yet. I will keep looking, insh'Allah"We to'd and fro'd with "Obey God and Obey the Messenger" and "what the Prophet gives you, take it, and what he forbids, leave it" and he ended up saying "Sister, don't reject the teachings of the Prophet (saws). The Prophet (saws), his character, his actions, his sayings, all of that is part of our deen."
My reply was this
"It is my belief that the Sublime Qur'an makes it clear what should and should not be rejected / turned away from / denied.
rejecting the Ayati (verses / signs)
...621
6157
737
1017
1580
1759
2048
666
4081
64
1581
3646
12105
2132
6157
646rejecting the Haq (truth)
2968
666
3932
2124rejecting the Messengers
26176
5014
3445turning away from Dhikri (The Reminder)
5329
265
7449
211 - 212
2124
2142
2371
8821turning away from / rejecting l-kitab (The Book)
3525
1336
323Other things mentioned as being turned away from / rejected / denied
929 bilhusna - goodness
2511 bil saati - the Hour
1683 nimatallah - The Favor of Allah swt
976 fadlihi - His Bounty
233 l-laghawi - vain talk
3868 naba on azimun - great news
480 Obedience to Allah swt and Obedience to the Messenger
802 a blind mansearch terms
reject
deny
turn away
averse
disbelieve
disbeliefsearch results
root
kaf fa ra http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?root=kfr
kaf dhal ba http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?root=k*b
ayn ra dad http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?root=ErD
nun kaf ra http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?root=nkr
waw lam ya http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?root=wly
sad dal fa http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?root=Sdf
Peace be upon you all. I do not post all this to be argumentative. I am sharing with you this morning's Qur'an Study and Search results to share the Truth in the Qur'an with you all, and showing where I found it, in case anyone would like to check this information to verify it for themselves. My intention is good, insh'Allah. Please do not be offended. May Allah swt increase us in knowledge and understanding and forgive our mistakes and make us humble. And Allahu Alim"
That was my reply. Insha'Allah my post is useful.
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Quantum1 I think you interpretation was very good. I understood it and it made sense to me. The problem I had with following the sunnah was all the contradictions and endless debating over stupid things like why we shouldn't eat ketchup etc.... Now I feel alot happier reading the Quran without any commentaries, and discovering for myself the true meaning of what Allah is saying to us. Today I was told that I could quite possibly be possessed by Devil because I reject all hadiths and only pray 3 times a day. I keep thinking maybe I am wrong, but my heart and logical mind just groans at the thought of going back to practising that way again. Thanks for the insight.
Simone sunAnd keep up prayer in the two parts of the day and in the first hours of the night; surely good deeds take away evil deeds this is a reminder to the mindful. (11116)
these are the three you talk about ?
Attend constantly to prayers and to the middle prayer and stand up truly obedient to Allah. (2240)
that makes 4 ?
On the other hand, Allah says
Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. (Quran 2130)
That was the duaa of Ibraheem speaking about his decendants from Ismaeel (check the previous verse) wich are the muslims.
He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error, (623)
So the Prophet indeed brought us wisdom that we have to follow wich is the sunna.
The funniest part is that you are following the sunna against your will as most of the quran in english that you are reading are translations according to the prophet sayings as alot of terms are not understandable without his explanations (see the differences between the translations availables as the arabic version is unique).
Salaaman Simone,
AlQuraan = Allah's Itaa'at
AlHadith = Rasool's Itaa'atIf so, then as per 480 above. If one obeys the messenger, that means AlHadith, then he obeyed Allah.
In other words. If someone follow AlHadith then he is actually followed Allah... then no need for AlQuraan.
If you understand 480, it clearly says that obeying Allah and obeying AlRasool is same, i.e., AlQuraan. Cause, Allah sent AlQuraan and AlRasool gave it to us. So, if you follow AlQuraan that means you are obeying Allah and AlRasool.
Are you serious ?
Your analogy don't make sens (obeying Allah and obeying AlRasool is same, i.e., AlQuraan. Cause, Allah sent AlQuraan and AlRasool gave it to us).
It is more clear that you must obey Allah and obey the Rasool.
Allah means everry word written in the quran so if He says obey Allah and obey the Rasool He means obey Allah and obey the Rasool, you are clearly twisting the original sens of the aya to prove your point.
It's like if I say "eat chiken and eggs" and you say "that means eat only chicken because the egg comes from the chiken" no sens at all !
Salaam.
More then one Book?
Which verse does that say?Peace. handshake
And when We gave Musa the Book and the distinction that you might walk aright. (254)
And most certainly We gave Musa the Book and We sent apostles after him one after another (28
And when there came to them an Apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of those who were given the Book threw the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing. (2102)
He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel. (34)
But if they reject you, so indeed were rejected before you apostles who came with clear arguments and scriptures and the illuminating book. (3185)
Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed We have given to Ibrahim's children the Book and the wisdom, and We have given them a grand kingdom. (455)
And they say Why does he not bring to us a sign from his Lord? Has not there come to them a clear evidence of what is m the previous books? (20134)
The scriptures of Ibrahim and Musa. (8720)
Surely We have revealed to you as We revealed to Nuh, and the prophets after him, and We revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and Isa and Ayub and Yunus and Haroun and Sulaiman and We gave to Dawood the Psaulms (4164)
And your Lord best knows those who are in the heavens and the earth; and certainly We have made some of the prophets to excel others, and to Dawood We gave a scripture. (1756)
I am a convert and to me it is very plain if my conscience and honest feeling and thinking took me to islam, now, after I am a Muslim, honest conscience feeling nd thinking must be suspended in order tht I can follow somebody else's conscience, feeling and thinking? Why shouldn't I then have stayed where I was and where I was told what I had to believe and what not? Itis shockingly self-serving and club-like. Sometime it feels just like tht, tht youhve to accept the club rules in order to be in. But religion is not a club. It is a lien which is based on sincerity towards oneself and the others. As a hadith says "religion is sincerity", or something of the sort. And I put a hadith, because this one, like many others, I consider valuable, not because it comes from the Prophet, which it could or could not, but because what it says has a sense, a meaning and a teaching. And that is what I uphold, that he same as I choose Islam because I found the Qur'an convincing, whay should I follow any other criteria when dealing with hadith or with whatever? It is content that decides, not purported pedigree. Is one going to buy a piece of gold on somebody's wordsor is one going to ascertain by him or herself or going to that trouble when the the piece in question has plainly all the attributes of tin or even shit.
Salaam
The prophet said (not the exact phrase coz I don't find a translation for this one) if you feel comfortable with one of my sayings I could have said it but if your heart rejected it could be far from me.
What would Allah SWT do to rasool Muhammad, if he did say those hadith besides The Qur'an?
Let's see, let's read6938 So I do swear by what you see.
6939 And what you do not see.
6940 This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.
6941 It is not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe.
6942 Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed.
6943 A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
6944 And had he attributed anything falsely to Us.
6945 We would have seized him by the right.
6946 Then, We would have severed his life-line. (wich in other translations is translated as "the aorta"
6947 None of you would be able to prevent it.Wich didn't happend so the prophet clearly did not attributed anything false to the Lord, how could he ? he who have been trusted by the Most High to reveal the book and who understands it better than him to explain it ?
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Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. (Quran 2130)
That was the duaa of Ibraheem speaking about his decendants from Ismaeel (check the previous verse) wich are the muslims.
He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error, (623)
So the Prophet indeed brought us wisdom that we have to follow wich is the sunna.
Strikingly similar to these verses, no?
361 Quran al-hakim
358 - Dhikr al-hakim
101 - Kitaab al-hakim
312 - Kitaab al-hakim
What is the hikma being referred to in these verses? The Quran and the Prophetic sunnah?
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Are you serious ?
Your analogy don't make sens (obeying Allah and obeying AlRasool is same, i.e., AlQuraan. Cause, Allah sent AlQuraan and AlRasool gave it to us).
It is more clear that you must obey Allah and obey the Rasool.
Allah means everry word written in the quran so if He says obey Allah and obey the Rasool He means obey Allah and obey the Rasool, you are clearly twisting the original sens of the aya to prove your point.
It's like if I say "eat chiken and eggs" and you say "that means eat only chicken because the egg comes from the chiken" no sens at all !
Brother, you did not read my previous post carefully, otherwise you will not ask/say such things.
Please read carefully before coming up with your disagreement.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. (Quran 2130)
That was the duaa of Ibraheem speaking about his decendants from Ismaeel (check the previous verse) wich are the muslims.
He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error, (623)
So the Prophet indeed brought us wisdom that we have to follow wich is the sunna.
The conclusion that hikmah / wisdom means "sunnah" is faulty and does not make sense if you look at other verses where the word is being used.
It's been discussed in detail here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600457.0
The funniest part is that you are following the sunna against your will as most of the quran in english that you are reading are translations according to the prophet sayings as alot of terms are not understandable without his explanations (see the differences between the translations availables as the arabic version is unique).
Is that so? Could you you give some examples with proof, please?
It is more clear that you must obey Allah and obey the Rasool.
The rasool is dead. And following hearsay that is being attributed to him is not the same as obeying him.
I wonder, did you even bother reading any of the threads here before registering? Because this issue has been discussed ad nauseam. )
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Brother, you did not read my previous post carefully, otherwise you will not ask/say such things.
Please read carefully before coming up with your disagreement.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. KhanI red your whole post and still don't make sens.
Is your key proof that the prophet doesnt exist anymore so how could we follow him ?
There were scholars and people who spesialized on collecting hadith, these people spent their lifes crossing the globe to lay down on paper the sayings of the prophets. A whole science of methodology of collecting and sorting hadiths has been created. It would be shameful, stupid and sad to miss all this treasures of wisdom he shared with his contemporaries.
Remember "Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray; Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed, The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him," (533-6)The conclusion that hikmah / wisdom means "sunnah" is faulty and does not make sense if you look at other verses where the word is being used.
It's been discussed in detail here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600457.0
So what is the form of this wisdom according to you ?
Is that so? Could you you give some examples with proof, please?
Yes it is P
You only have to check the different translations and see the differences between them while the Quran in arabic is one.
Brief example
Surat 1133Sahih International And from the evil of darkness when it settles
Pickthall From the evil of the darkness when it is intense,
Yusuf Ali From the mischief of Darkness as it overspreads;
Shakir And from the evil of the utterly dark night when it comes,
Muhammad Sarwar I seek His protection against the evil of the invading darkness,
Mohsin Khan "And from the evil of the darkening (night) as it comes with its darkness; (or the moon as it sets or goes away).
Arberry from the evil of darkness when it gathers,So is Ghaseq darkness, dark night, darkening or moon ?
And Waqab is overspread, comes, invading, goes away or gather ?the only reason of such a difference is that these 2 words does not exist in arabic language before islam and they have been explained by the prophet and the meaning still blurr, without his explanation there wouldnt be any translation.
Another example
Surat 1081Sahih International Indeed, We have granted you, , al-Kawthar.
Pickthall Lo! We have given thee Abundance;
Yusuf Ali To thee have We granted the Fount (of Abundance).
Shakir Surely We have given you Kausar,
Muhammad Sarwar (Muhammad), We have granted you abundant virtue.
Mohsin Khan Verily, We have granted you (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) Al-Kauthar (a river in Paradise);
Arberry Surely We have given thee abundance;What is the Kawthar ?
How do we know that it's a river in Paradise.Also
(25Sahih International And We shaded you with clouds and sent down to you manna and quails, , "Eat from the good things with which We have provided you." And they wronged Us not - but they were wronging themselves.
Pickthall And We caused the white cloud to overshadow you and sent down on you the manna and the quails, (saying) Eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you - they wronged Us not, but they did wrong themselves.
Yusuf Ali And We gave you the shade of clouds and sent down to you Manna and quails, saying "Eat of the good things We have provided for you" (But they rebelled); to us they did no harm, but they harmed their own souls.
Shakir And We made the clouds to give shade over you and We sent to you manna and quails Eat of the good things that We have given you; and they did not do Us any harm, but they made their own souls suffer the loss.
Muhammad Sarwar We provided you with shade from the clouds and sent down manna and quails as the best pure sustenance for you to eat. They (children of Israel) did not wrong Us but wronged themselves.
Mohsin Khan And We shaded you with clouds and sent down on you Al-Manna and the quails, (saying) "Eat of the good lawful things We have provided for you," (but they rebelled). And they did not wrong Us but they wronged themselves.
Arberry And We outspread the cloud to overshadow you, and We sent down manna and quails upon you 'Eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you. And they worked no wrong upon Us, but themselves they wronged.What are al Mann Wa Assalwa ?
The rasool is dead. And following hearsay that is being attributed to him is not the same as obeying him.
There were scholars and people who spesialized on collecting hadith, these people spent their lifes crossing the globe to lay down on paper the sayings of the prophets. A whole science of methodology of collecting and sorting hadiths has been created. It would be shameful, stupid and sad to miss all this treasures of wisdom he shared with his contemporaries.
Remember "Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray; Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed, The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him," (533-6)I wonder, did you even bother reading any of the threads here before registering? Because this issue has been discussed ad nauseam.
No but "And continue to remind, for surely the reminder profits the believers." (5155)
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Common sense tells you that if you follow other books besides Qur'an, that The Qur'an isn't enough for you.
It is very arrogant to pretend understand the quran without the prophet's or the scholars explanations. I wish you can one day understand it in arabic because it is alot more powerful.
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It is very arrogant to pretend understand the quran without the prophet's or the scholars explanations. I wish you can one day understand it in arabic because it is alot more powerful.
The explanations are in the Quran, or have you missed those verses where God asserts how He explains and clarifies His verses so that people may know that Quran is from God and not a human i.e. if the Prophet was explaining the Quran the unbelievers would have accused him of making it up.
The explanations of scholars are just opinions but Muslims today uphold them as revelations by ascribing them to the prophet.
It puzzles me why people like you never think why on earth a God most wise and most knowing would send down a book that nobody could understand by reading it. Your assertion that the Quran can't be understood between just man and his God is an insult to God.
Muhammad only left me the Quran; I will not betray him by accepting other sources that God and his messenger gave no authority for.
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The explanations are in the Quran, or have you missed those verses where God asserts how He explains and clarifies His verses so that people may know that Quran is from God and not a human i.e. if the Prophet was explaining the Quran the unbelievers would have accused him of making it up.
The explanations of scholars are just opinions but Muslims today uphold them as revelations by ascribing them to the prophet.
It puzzles me why people like you never think why on earth a God most wise and most knowing would send down a book that nobody could understand by reading it. Your assertion that the Quran can't be understood between just man and his God is an insult to God.
Muhammad only left me the Quran; I will not betray him by accepting other sources that God and his messenger gave no authority for.
God authority
Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. (Quran 2130)
He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error, (623)
- a half dozen verses that associate the book and the wisdom.
Also god said
"I swear by the star when it goes down. Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray; Nor does he speak out of desire.It is naught but revelation that is revealed, The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him" (531-6)
And when God says in the Quran "Nor does he speak out of desire.It is naught but revelation that is revealed" that means you have to take it letarely without any doubt that He-NEVER-SPEAK-OUT-OF-DESIRE-ALL-WHAT-HE-SAYS-IS-REVELATION-FROM-GOD. bottom line.
Prophet's authority
1-Al-Daarimi and Abu Dawood in their Sunans (books) recorded that Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-As stated that they used to record everything they heard from the Prophet. They were warned against doing so as, it was argued, the Prophet was a human being who may be angry at times and pleased at others. Abdullah stopped writing his hadeeth until they could ask the Prophet about this issue. The Messenger of God told him
?Write , by the One in whose hand is my soul, nothing comes out except the truth.?2-Al-Bukhari recorded that a person from Yemen came to the Prophet on the day of the Conquest of Mecca and asked him if he could get the Prophet?s speech recorded, and the Prophet approved and told someone
?Write it for the father of so and so.?3-Anas narrated that the Apostle of God said ?Secure knowledge by writing it.?
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Salaam Badr
You seem to be a very wise person and I congratulate you on speaking arabic, it must be so much easier for you to understand what is written than for example me, a convert european without any roots in the arabic part of the world.
This however, should be something that you must consider, that not all are like you. I don't know where you come from but the people on this forum come from all parts of the world. We are talking about God's word here, and His words are for everyone, not only for a specific culture or race. Many of us non-arabic-converts start our journey to islam by reading the Quran, and when we do The book makes sense, it is all there and we all understand it, it doesnt matter anymore if we are chinese, white, black or from the same continent, we all get it. When we later do more research and run into hadith we start to feel alienated and all of a sudden islam feels very distant and not for us. Have you ever contemplated over the fact that most islamaphobes around the world are islamaphobes because of only a few reasons, and those reasons can be found in hadith, not in the Quran?
This phenomena is itself proof that the hadith are not entirely correct. How can practicing God's word (if using hadith) feel wrong for so many people? I personally would like to know more about the sunnah of Mohammed, but if I use hadith as a source for this I would first be forced into following a God that I cannot feel love to, and I would also start to doubt Muhammed being a prophet of God. Even if I would go against my feelings I cannot be 100% sure that the narrations are truly the words of the prophet. And Badr, you cannot say that you can prove that hadith are 100% right, no matter how many scholars have searched the globe.
Let islam be dynamic, let islam be for everyone.
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Salaam Badr
You seem to be a very wise person and I congratulate you on speaking arabic, it must be so much easier for you to understand what is written than for example me, a convert european without any roots in the arabic part of the world.
This however, should be something that you must consider, that not all are like you. I don't know where you come from but the people on this forum come from all parts of the world. We are talking about God's word here, and His words are for everyone, not only for a specific culture or race. Many of us non-arabic-converts start our journey to islam by reading the Quran, and when we do The book makes sense, it is all there and we all understand it, it doesnt matter anymore if we are chinese, white, black or from the same continent, we all get it. When we later do more research and run into hadith we start to feel alienated and all of a sudden islam feels very distant and not for us. Have you ever contemplated over the fact that most islamaphobes around the world are islamaphobes because of only a few reasons, and those reasons can be found in hadith, not in the Quran?
This phenomena is itself proof that the hadith are not entirely correct. How can practicing God's word (if using hadith) feel wrong for so many people? I personally would like to know more about the sunnah of Mohammed, but if I use hadith as a source for this I would first be forced into following a God that I cannot feel love to, and I would also start to doubt Muhammed being a prophet of God. Even if I would go against my feelings I cannot be 100% sure that the narrations are truly the words of the prophet. And Badr, you cannot say that you can prove that hadith are 100% right, no matter how many scholars have searched the globe.
Let islam be dynamic, let islam be for everyone.
Salaam Emil,
Excellent response! Verrrrry well said indeed........ don't think there's anything 'better' anyone can add regarding this topic.
So i'm just gonna applaud and leave it at that bravo bravo bravoWe did not leave anything out of this BOOK.
We have given them a SCRIPTURE that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.
THESE are ALLAH's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which hadith other than ALLAH and His revelations do they believe?
Shall I seek other than ALLAH as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this BOOK fully detailed? Those who received the Scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
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