Proof Qur'an-alone is Error
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Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. (Quran 2130)
That was the duaa of Ibraheem speaking about his decendants from Ismaeel (check the previous verse) wich are the muslims.
He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error, (623)
So the Prophet indeed brought us wisdom that we have to follow wich is the sunna.
The conclusion that hikmah / wisdom means "sunnah" is faulty and does not make sense if you look at other verses where the word is being used.
It's been discussed in detail here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600457.0
The funniest part is that you are following the sunna against your will as most of the quran in english that you are reading are translations according to the prophet sayings as alot of terms are not understandable without his explanations (see the differences between the translations availables as the arabic version is unique).
Is that so? Could you you give some examples with proof, please?
It is more clear that you must obey Allah and obey the Rasool.
The rasool is dead. And following hearsay that is being attributed to him is not the same as obeying him.
I wonder, did you even bother reading any of the threads here before registering? Because this issue has been discussed ad nauseam. )
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Brother, you did not read my previous post carefully, otherwise you will not ask/say such things.
Please read carefully before coming up with your disagreement.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. KhanI red your whole post and still don't make sens.
Is your key proof that the prophet doesnt exist anymore so how could we follow him ?
There were scholars and people who spesialized on collecting hadith, these people spent their lifes crossing the globe to lay down on paper the sayings of the prophets. A whole science of methodology of collecting and sorting hadiths has been created. It would be shameful, stupid and sad to miss all this treasures of wisdom he shared with his contemporaries.
Remember "Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray; Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed, The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him," (533-6)The conclusion that hikmah / wisdom means "sunnah" is faulty and does not make sense if you look at other verses where the word is being used.
It's been discussed in detail here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600457.0
So what is the form of this wisdom according to you ?
Is that so? Could you you give some examples with proof, please?
Yes it is P
You only have to check the different translations and see the differences between them while the Quran in arabic is one.
Brief example
Surat 1133Sahih International And from the evil of darkness when it settles
Pickthall From the evil of the darkness when it is intense,
Yusuf Ali From the mischief of Darkness as it overspreads;
Shakir And from the evil of the utterly dark night when it comes,
Muhammad Sarwar I seek His protection against the evil of the invading darkness,
Mohsin Khan "And from the evil of the darkening (night) as it comes with its darkness; (or the moon as it sets or goes away).
Arberry from the evil of darkness when it gathers,So is Ghaseq darkness, dark night, darkening or moon ?
And Waqab is overspread, comes, invading, goes away or gather ?the only reason of such a difference is that these 2 words does not exist in arabic language before islam and they have been explained by the prophet and the meaning still blurr, without his explanation there wouldnt be any translation.
Another example
Surat 1081Sahih International Indeed, We have granted you, , al-Kawthar.
Pickthall Lo! We have given thee Abundance;
Yusuf Ali To thee have We granted the Fount (of Abundance).
Shakir Surely We have given you Kausar,
Muhammad Sarwar (Muhammad), We have granted you abundant virtue.
Mohsin Khan Verily, We have granted you (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) Al-Kauthar (a river in Paradise);
Arberry Surely We have given thee abundance;What is the Kawthar ?
How do we know that it's a river in Paradise.Also
(25Sahih International And We shaded you with clouds and sent down to you manna and quails, , "Eat from the good things with which We have provided you." And they wronged Us not - but they were wronging themselves.
Pickthall And We caused the white cloud to overshadow you and sent down on you the manna and the quails, (saying) Eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you - they wronged Us not, but they did wrong themselves.
Yusuf Ali And We gave you the shade of clouds and sent down to you Manna and quails, saying "Eat of the good things We have provided for you" (But they rebelled); to us they did no harm, but they harmed their own souls.
Shakir And We made the clouds to give shade over you and We sent to you manna and quails Eat of the good things that We have given you; and they did not do Us any harm, but they made their own souls suffer the loss.
Muhammad Sarwar We provided you with shade from the clouds and sent down manna and quails as the best pure sustenance for you to eat. They (children of Israel) did not wrong Us but wronged themselves.
Mohsin Khan And We shaded you with clouds and sent down on you Al-Manna and the quails, (saying) "Eat of the good lawful things We have provided for you," (but they rebelled). And they did not wrong Us but they wronged themselves.
Arberry And We outspread the cloud to overshadow you, and We sent down manna and quails upon you 'Eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you. And they worked no wrong upon Us, but themselves they wronged.What are al Mann Wa Assalwa ?
The rasool is dead. And following hearsay that is being attributed to him is not the same as obeying him.
There were scholars and people who spesialized on collecting hadith, these people spent their lifes crossing the globe to lay down on paper the sayings of the prophets. A whole science of methodology of collecting and sorting hadiths has been created. It would be shameful, stupid and sad to miss all this treasures of wisdom he shared with his contemporaries.
Remember "Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray; Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed, The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him," (533-6)I wonder, did you even bother reading any of the threads here before registering? Because this issue has been discussed ad nauseam.
No but "And continue to remind, for surely the reminder profits the believers." (5155)
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Common sense tells you that if you follow other books besides Qur'an, that The Qur'an isn't enough for you.
It is very arrogant to pretend understand the quran without the prophet's or the scholars explanations. I wish you can one day understand it in arabic because it is alot more powerful.
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It is very arrogant to pretend understand the quran without the prophet's or the scholars explanations. I wish you can one day understand it in arabic because it is alot more powerful.
The explanations are in the Quran, or have you missed those verses where God asserts how He explains and clarifies His verses so that people may know that Quran is from God and not a human i.e. if the Prophet was explaining the Quran the unbelievers would have accused him of making it up.
The explanations of scholars are just opinions but Muslims today uphold them as revelations by ascribing them to the prophet.
It puzzles me why people like you never think why on earth a God most wise and most knowing would send down a book that nobody could understand by reading it. Your assertion that the Quran can't be understood between just man and his God is an insult to God.
Muhammad only left me the Quran; I will not betray him by accepting other sources that God and his messenger gave no authority for.
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The explanations are in the Quran, or have you missed those verses where God asserts how He explains and clarifies His verses so that people may know that Quran is from God and not a human i.e. if the Prophet was explaining the Quran the unbelievers would have accused him of making it up.
The explanations of scholars are just opinions but Muslims today uphold them as revelations by ascribing them to the prophet.
It puzzles me why people like you never think why on earth a God most wise and most knowing would send down a book that nobody could understand by reading it. Your assertion that the Quran can't be understood between just man and his God is an insult to God.
Muhammad only left me the Quran; I will not betray him by accepting other sources that God and his messenger gave no authority for.
God authority
Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. (Quran 2130)
He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error, (623)
- a half dozen verses that associate the book and the wisdom.
Also god said
"I swear by the star when it goes down. Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray; Nor does he speak out of desire.It is naught but revelation that is revealed, The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him" (531-6)
And when God says in the Quran "Nor does he speak out of desire.It is naught but revelation that is revealed" that means you have to take it letarely without any doubt that He-NEVER-SPEAK-OUT-OF-DESIRE-ALL-WHAT-HE-SAYS-IS-REVELATION-FROM-GOD. bottom line.
Prophet's authority
1-Al-Daarimi and Abu Dawood in their Sunans (books) recorded that Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-As stated that they used to record everything they heard from the Prophet. They were warned against doing so as, it was argued, the Prophet was a human being who may be angry at times and pleased at others. Abdullah stopped writing his hadeeth until they could ask the Prophet about this issue. The Messenger of God told him
?Write , by the One in whose hand is my soul, nothing comes out except the truth.?2-Al-Bukhari recorded that a person from Yemen came to the Prophet on the day of the Conquest of Mecca and asked him if he could get the Prophet?s speech recorded, and the Prophet approved and told someone
?Write it for the father of so and so.?3-Anas narrated that the Apostle of God said ?Secure knowledge by writing it.?
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Salaam Badr
You seem to be a very wise person and I congratulate you on speaking arabic, it must be so much easier for you to understand what is written than for example me, a convert european without any roots in the arabic part of the world.
This however, should be something that you must consider, that not all are like you. I don't know where you come from but the people on this forum come from all parts of the world. We are talking about God's word here, and His words are for everyone, not only for a specific culture or race. Many of us non-arabic-converts start our journey to islam by reading the Quran, and when we do The book makes sense, it is all there and we all understand it, it doesnt matter anymore if we are chinese, white, black or from the same continent, we all get it. When we later do more research and run into hadith we start to feel alienated and all of a sudden islam feels very distant and not for us. Have you ever contemplated over the fact that most islamaphobes around the world are islamaphobes because of only a few reasons, and those reasons can be found in hadith, not in the Quran?
This phenomena is itself proof that the hadith are not entirely correct. How can practicing God's word (if using hadith) feel wrong for so many people? I personally would like to know more about the sunnah of Mohammed, but if I use hadith as a source for this I would first be forced into following a God that I cannot feel love to, and I would also start to doubt Muhammed being a prophet of God. Even if I would go against my feelings I cannot be 100% sure that the narrations are truly the words of the prophet. And Badr, you cannot say that you can prove that hadith are 100% right, no matter how many scholars have searched the globe.
Let islam be dynamic, let islam be for everyone.
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Salaam Badr
You seem to be a very wise person and I congratulate you on speaking arabic, it must be so much easier for you to understand what is written than for example me, a convert european without any roots in the arabic part of the world.
This however, should be something that you must consider, that not all are like you. I don't know where you come from but the people on this forum come from all parts of the world. We are talking about God's word here, and His words are for everyone, not only for a specific culture or race. Many of us non-arabic-converts start our journey to islam by reading the Quran, and when we do The book makes sense, it is all there and we all understand it, it doesnt matter anymore if we are chinese, white, black or from the same continent, we all get it. When we later do more research and run into hadith we start to feel alienated and all of a sudden islam feels very distant and not for us. Have you ever contemplated over the fact that most islamaphobes around the world are islamaphobes because of only a few reasons, and those reasons can be found in hadith, not in the Quran?
This phenomena is itself proof that the hadith are not entirely correct. How can practicing God's word (if using hadith) feel wrong for so many people? I personally would like to know more about the sunnah of Mohammed, but if I use hadith as a source for this I would first be forced into following a God that I cannot feel love to, and I would also start to doubt Muhammed being a prophet of God. Even if I would go against my feelings I cannot be 100% sure that the narrations are truly the words of the prophet. And Badr, you cannot say that you can prove that hadith are 100% right, no matter how many scholars have searched the globe.
Let islam be dynamic, let islam be for everyone.
Salaam Emil,
Excellent response! Verrrrry well said indeed........ don't think there's anything 'better' anyone can add regarding this topic.
So i'm just gonna applaud and leave it at that bravo bravo bravoWe did not leave anything out of this BOOK.
We have given them a SCRIPTURE that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.
THESE are ALLAH's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which hadith other than ALLAH and His revelations do they believe?
Shall I seek other than ALLAH as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this BOOK fully detailed? Those who received the Scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
http//i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp351/hiking-artist/free%20illustrations/blind-leading-blindby-HikingArtist.jpg
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I red your whole post and still don't make sens.
Is your key proof that the prophet doesnt exist anymore so how could we follow him ?
There is one more point bro, and you did not answer this key proof?
There were scholars and people who spesialized on collecting hadith,
Did Allah authorize them to do so? Or they follow their own wish?
these people spent their lifes crossing the globe to lay down on paper the sayings of the prophets.
Did Allah authorize them to do so? Or they follow their own wish?
A whole science of methodology of collecting and sorting hadiths has been created.
Did Allah authorize them to do so? Or they follow their own wish?
It would be shameful, stupid and sad to miss all this treasures of wisdom he shared with his contemporaries.
Who said that? Allah?
Remember "Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray; Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed, The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him," (533-6)
Who is 'Your Companion' referring to? Allah knows how to say AlNabi, or AlRasool or Mohammed, etc...
May Allah open our hearts to understand and accept the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
God authority
Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise. (Quran 2130)
He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error, (623)
- a half dozen verses that associate the book and the wisdom.
You didn't respond to the request to explain what the hikmah is in these verses
361 Quran al-hakim
358 - Dhikr al-hakim
101 - Kitaab al-hakim
312 - Kitaab al-hakim
What is the hikma being referred to in these verses? The Quran and the Prophetic sunnah?
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Salaam,
As Mushu wrote, this is more than enough to understand what Hikmat is
361 Quran al-hakim
358 - Dhikr al-hakim
101 - Kitaab al-hakim
312 - Kitaab al-hakim
What is the hikma being referred to in these verses? The Quran and the Prophetic sunnah?
Mohammed M. Khan
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Salaam Badr
You seem to be a very wise person and I congratulate you on speaking arabic, it must be so much easier for you to understand what is written than for example me, a convert european without any roots in the arabic part of the world.
This however, should be something that you must consider, that not all are like you. I don't know where you come from but the people on this forum come from all parts of the world. We are talking about God's word here, and His words are for everyone, not only for a specific culture or race. Many of us non-arabic-converts start our journey to islam by reading the Quran, and when we do The book makes sense, it is all there and we all understand it, it doesnt matter anymore if we are chinese, white, black or from the same continent, we all get it. When we later do more research and run into hadith we start to feel alienated and all of a sudden islam feels very distant and not for us. Have you ever contemplated over the fact that most islamaphobes around the world are islamaphobes because of only a few reasons, and those reasons can be found in hadith, not in the Quran?
This phenomena is itself proof that the hadith are not entirely correct. How can practicing God's word (if using hadith) feel wrong for so many people? I personally would like to know more about the sunnah of Mohammed, but if I use hadith as a source for this I would first be forced into following a God that I cannot feel love to, and I would also start to doubt Muhammed being a prophet of God. Even if I would go against my feelings I cannot be 100% sure that the narrations are truly the words of the prophet. And Badr, you cannot say that you can prove that hadith are 100% right, no matter how many scholars have searched the globe.
Let islam be dynamic, let islam be for everyone.
salaam Emil
i fully understand what you say and i'm grateful to god for speakin arabic and understand english too may god give all of us useful knowledge for ourselves and for our brothers in islam.
i am aware that quran is the word of god for all mankind and may god reinforce islam with people from all over the world.
i personally dont care about islamophobes but i can understand that if you live amongst alot of them and if you have to justify yourself all the time it can become a burden. but i like to think that islamophobes dont understand islam otherwise there wouldnt be people like yourself and also the 20000 people/year who convert in the US. alot of principles are twisted or taken out of context and what make them hate islam must have a clear and simple explanation from the quran or the sunna. if you believe in the divinity of the message it leads you directly to the attributes of its holder in the person of muhammad and if the most high trusted him and said about him
Sahih International And indeed, you are of a great moral character.
Pickthall And lo! thou art of a tremendous nature.
Yusuf Ali And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character.
Shakir And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality.
Muhammad Sarwar You have attained a high moral standard.
Mohsin Khan And verily, you (O Muhammad SAW) are on an exalted standard of character.
Arberry surely thou art upon a mighty morality.
(684)so if his morality fits the standards of god how does it not fit our?
later comes the veracity and the authenticity of the hadith, some collections are agreed on like sahih bukhari, muslim etc... and for the most skeptical a scholar from our time (who died a few years ago) called al albany spent his life to resort hadeeth and verify their authenticity and his works are excellents and his books are translated too.
and for the super skeptical the prophet said that ; if your heart feel comfortable with a saying attributed to me it could be the closest thing to me, and if your heart dont feel comfortable with a saying attributed to me it could be the farthest thing from me.also some of the things that make people misunderstand islam are related to the arabic culture, the west finds some practices strange as arabs finds some of the west's practices weird also. some are also related to time, you can't compare 500 AC to 2010 AC.
anyway, if i can help by any way don't hesitate you can ask me whatever question you have and i'll try to answer the best i can.
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You didn't respond to the request to explain what the hikmah is in these verses
Salaam,
As Mushu wrote, this is more than enough to understand what Hikmat is
Mohammed M. Khan
i dont understand why you both acting like this is the ultimate proof, wise is an adjective that comes from wisdom yeah. like you also can say Luqman the wise. it is an adjective attributed to the quran in these verses as indeed the quran is of great wisdom. but when allah says "the quran AND the wisdom" it is clearly referring to two different thing, and you both couldnt respond to my simple question wich is what is the form of this wisdom (from that mentionned verse) ?
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it is an adjective attributed to the quran in these verses as indeed the quran is of great wisdom. but when allah says "the quran AND the wisdom" it is clearly referring to two different thing,
Which is strange logic, no? That quran and hikmah are coupled so deliberately and in so many verses that you're forced to admit that hikmah is a characteristic of the quran, yet maintain that in another verse when the quran and hikmah are combined they mean two separate things.
Although it might not be the ultimate proof you were hoping for, it does expose the irregularity in your reading of the quran.
the quran AND the wisdom" it is clearly referring to two different thing,
Then "clearly" the following verse must be referring to two different things as well
Be guardians of your prayers, AND of the midmost prayer, and stand up with devotion to Allah. (223
Isn't the midmost salat part of the salawat? It looks like, according to the way you read quran, that salawat is one thing, and the midmost salat is something different, hence the AND in between them. Allah is commanding you to guard your salawat, and then commanding you to also guard a different thing called salat al wustu. Strange.
and you both couldnt respond to my simple question wich is what is the form of this wisdom (from that mentionned verse) ?
Given that you understand Arabic, you could reflect upon the grammar in the following and give us your thoughts
He hath revealed unto you of the Scripture AND the Wisdom, whereby He doth exhort you with it. 2231
Once again, we see the kitab and the hikmah coupled together. Can you see the 'bihi' at the end of the line? I'm sure you know that it denotes the singular form, yet it should have been in the plural if al kitab and al hikmah were two different things. Is it possible that Allah used the singular "with it" because the kitab and the hikmah are actually the same thing?
What these types of discussions expose more than anything is that there is nothing in the quran that says follow the quran and (prophet's) sunnah. This is the slogan of the sunnis yet cannot be found anywhere. Clinging onto the hikmah and suggesting it is the prophetic sunnah is similar to how Christians react when you point out to them that there is no explicit verse in the Bible that shows Jesus claiming to be God. They find various other verses that, with enough effort, can show that their belief is justified. So you're welcome to hold onto the belief that the hikmah is the sunnah, but there's no escaping the inconsistency in your own reading of the quran.
Anyway, I agree with Leyla that this argument has been buried. Just read the links Wakas has provided or do a search.
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salam 3alaykum brothers and sisters.
So I would ask any Qur'an-aloners out there, what could this other thing be? And why aren't you following it?Alaykum salam
Since I rejected any other book as authority besides God's book, I have discussed this issue thousands times with thousands of people. ;For almost three decades I have questioned those who say God Alone (la ilahe illa Allah), and the contradicts that by saying God is Quran and Muhammad is Hadith and Quran (God) is not enough...
Thus, I will not engage in another repetition of such a debate with you. Rather, I have a question for you
Can you please list ten teachings/articles/activities/prayers etc that you expect me to follow besides the Quran. And briefly tell me why do you think that is authentic and necessary for my eternal salvation. After you list them together with their justification, then we have something more meaningful to discuss.
Peace,
Edip -
salaam Emil
ii personally dont care about islamophobes but i can understand that if you live amongst alot of them and if you have to justify yourself all the time it can become a burden.
also some of the things that make people misunderstand islam are related to the arabic culture, the west finds some practices strange as arabs finds some of the west's practices weird also. some are also related to time, you can't compare 500 AC to 2010 AC.
Salaam Badr
Thank you for your nice response, I will only address the above I cut out from your text.
You are helping me making my point. If I were to follow sunni or shia I would have to distance myself from the culture I was born into, I would have to alienate myself from my family. The Quran is God's word, in it you cannot find barriers between cultures, in hadith you can.
I have never had to justify myself to islamaphobes since there is nothing in the Quran that alienates my culture from God. On the contrary, my culture applauds.And exactly yes, you cannot compare 500AD to 2010AD. Just like there are differences between cultures there are also differences in one culture between years. The hadith were collected around 800AD, right? Do you believe that hadith are timeless or connected to a place in time? The prophet Muhammed teachings were directed to an audience which is very different than you and me. Using one example
Back then it was probably absolutely necessary to segregate men and women in the mosque, maybe the men refused to come to the mosque if they had to sit behind a woman, maybe the women felt uneasy about men staring, who knows? Does that mean there should be gender segregation forever and ever? Even if you can prove that the hadith is authentic without doubt (meaning prophet Muhammed said those words), you still cannot prove that the hadith comes from God. You don't know if Muhammed said it because of political, religious or practical reasons. Remember, Muhammed was not only a prophet, he was also a leader. -
There were scholars and people who spesialized on collecting hadith, these people spent their lifes crossing the globe to lay down on paper the sayings of the prophets. A whole science of methodology of collecting and sorting hadiths has been created. It would be shameful, stupid and sad to miss all this treasures of wisdom he shared with his contemporaries.
Imho it wouldbe shameful, stupid and sad to rely on the authority of those scholars for our understanding of the Qur'an.
For example, Ibn Kathir's tafsir relies heavily on ahadeeth for interpretation, does that make it better? I think not; in fact I personally disagree with his interpretations in many cases.
What it boils down to is blindly believing in scholars. It always goes like this
~ The Qur'an is sooo complicated that we can't understand it without ahadeeth.
~ The science of ahadeeth is sooo complicated that it took many wise men who studied for a very long time to sort and interpret those ahadeeth for us, a mere mortal will never be able to make sense of the whole body of ahadeeth.
~ So we have to believe what those scholars tell us, and since we lack their knowledge we should never dare to have an opinion that differs from theirs.Brief example
Surat 1133Sahih International And from the evil of darkness when it settles
Pickthall From the evil of the darkness when it is intense,
Yusuf Ali From the mischief of Darkness as it overspreads;
Shakir And from the evil of the utterly dark night when it comes,
Muhammad Sarwar I seek His protection against the evil of the invading darkness,
Mohsin Khan "And from the evil of the darkening (night) as it comes with its darkness; (or the moon as it sets or goes away).
Arberry from the evil of darkness when it gathers,So is Ghaseq darkness, dark night, darkening or moon ?
And Waqab is overspread, comes, invading, goes away or gather ?the only reason of such a difference is that these 2 words does not exist in arabic language before islam and they have been explained by the prophet and the meaning still blurr, without his explanation there wouldnt be any translation.
It is normal when translating something into another language, that there are often various options of translating a word.
Now in this verse, it does not make any difference in terms of meaning whether we translate as "evil" or as "mischief".
Also, you did not provide any proof for your theory. Which hadith exactly "explains" this verse and how? What exactly was the prophet's explanation without which we supposedly would not be able to understand this word / verse?
Remember "Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray; Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed, The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him," (533-6)
This revelation that is being mentioned in the verse is the Qur'an. Ahadeeth are not revelation.
It is very arrogant to pretend understand the quran without the prophet's or the scholars explanations.
There is nothing arrogant about this whatsoever. The Qur'an itself asks us to reflect on it (and on the world around us), it keeps repeating that it's a guide for people of understanding, for people who think and so on. It does not say anywhere that we should rely on authorities to tell us what we're supposed to think, quite the opposite; it contains a warning to not blindly rely on religious authorities.
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Imho it wouldbe shameful, stupid and sad to rely on the authority of those scholars for our understanding of the Qur'an.
For example, Ibn Kathir's tafsir relies heavily on ahadeeth for interpretation, does that make it better? I think not; in fact I personally disagree with his interpretations in many cases.
Says Leyna from free-minds.org
What it boils down to is blindly believing in scholars. It always goes like this
~ The Qur'an is sooo complicated that we can't understand it without ahadeeth.
~ The science of ahadeeth is sooo complicated that it took many wise men who studied for a very long time to sort and interpret those ahadeeth for us, a mere mortal will never be able to make sense of the whole body of ahadeeth.
~ So we have to believe what those scholars tell us, and since we lack their knowledge we should never dare to have an opinion that differs from theirs.For how long have you studied hadeeth to come with this conclusion ?
It is normal when translating something into another language, that there are often various options of translating a word.
Now in this verse, it does not make any difference in terms of meaning whether we translate as "evil" or as "mischief".
Also, you did not provide any proof for your theory. Which hadith exactly "explains" this verse and how? What exactly was the prophet's explanation without which we supposedly would not be able to understand this word / verse?
It's funny how you took the two words that are the most close, try to explain why "moon" and "darkness". If the quran is self explanatory so the arabic words must be clear and exact to not cause misunderstanding, what means exactely "Ghasiq" ?
This revelation that is being mentioned in the verse is the Qur'an. Ahadeeth are not revelation.
"Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed," when he speaks it's revelation, it is a general sens right here, evry thing said by the prophet is revelation whether it's Quran or a "regular" saying.
The Quran says that you MUST obey him, the only traces you have from him is Hadeeth.
"Say Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers."
"And obey Allah and the Apostle, that you may be shown mercy."
"And We did not send any apostle but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission;"
"And whoever obeys Allah and the Apostle, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they!"
So if you don't obey the prophet, you don't obey the quran, as simple as that.
There is nothing arrogant about this whatsoever. The Qur'an itself asks us to reflect on it (and on the world around us), it keeps repeating that it's a guide for people of understanding, for people who think and so on. It does not say anywhere that we should rely on authorities to tell us what we're supposed to think, quite the opposite; it contains a warning to not blindly rely on religious authorities.
Well.... it does
"O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Apostle, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end." (459)See how you don't know your subject.
