In depth study on Salaat in Quran
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Peace Pierre,
If the chins of the people the book listening to the recitation of the Quran did not touch the ground while they prostrated, then I am completely astray and arrogantly deny the truth, and Ayman and Wakas are guided.
If their chins actually physically touched the ground during their prostration, then Ayman and Wakas are astray and arrogantly deny the truth, and I am guided regarding the fact that prostration is a physical prostration.Same case for 4829. Only people filled with arrogance refuse to prostrate physically and well as mentally before God in their ritual prayers. As for the mark due to prostration, as I said in my article, it is not the type of self inflicted mark that al Qaida type of people inflict on themselves. It simply acknowledges that the foreheads of those who submit to God actually touch the ground. People who observe Salaat 5 times a day have an almost indistinguishable mark on their foreheads due to the prostrations. Many years ago when I was discovered Islam as a sunni, to my surprise, I remember friends of mine had already noticed that on my forehead, and same with you Asana or anyone else if you observe Salaat five times a day, look at yourself very closely in the mirror under proper light, and you will see an almost indistinguishable, very slight mark. No one wil notice that mark unless they know you are Muslim and look very closely.
You are hypocritically contradicting yourself. Do you prostrate to the chin as the god said (if you understand sujud physically) or do you disobey him and prostrate to the forehead because you think you know better? It is a physical impossibility for your chin and forehead to be on the ground at the same time.
Also, you lied and claimed that you braught some some new observations but you haven't told everyone what new better understanding you have achieved beyond what every misguided sectarian already blindly follows from his or her forefathers.
Finally, do you have any better argument against any of my articles other than that they sound scholarly while yours sound amateurish?
Peace,
Ayman
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Do you prostrate to the chin as the god said (if you understand sujud physically) or do you disobey him and prostrate to the forehead because you think you know better? It is a physical impossibility for your chin and forehead to be on the ground at the same time.
What a great scholarly observation!
Place a video camera in action and prostrate. Later see the video in slow motion to observe movement of every part of body, particularly face. And then again see whether the words depict the same image or otherwise.
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What a great scholarly observation!
Place a video camera in action and prostrate. Later see the video in slow motion to observe movement of every part of body, particularly face. And then again see whether the words depict the same image or otherwise.No one needs a video to tell him that sectarians who understand falling to the chin in prostration as physical actually do it to the forehead and not the chin. Maybe you can post a video of you to show otherwise if you have an abnormally long chin.
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What a great scholarly observation!
Place a video camera in action and prostrate. Later see the video in slow motion to observe movement of every part of body, particularly face. And then again see whether the words depict the same image or otherwise.
Salaam Ayman and all,
- We see that the people of the book in 17107-17108 prostrate on their chins
(17107) Proclaim ?Believe in it (Quran) or not, verily, when it is recited to those who were blessed with knowledge before this, (1st prostration) they fall on their chins prostrating. (1710 And they proclaim ?Praise be to our Lord ! Indeed the prophecy of our Lord has assuredly been fulfilled !? (17109) (2nd prostration) And they fall on their chins in tears, as it increases their reverence.
First of all this shows that you are a liar when you claim that a prostration is a not physical prostration.
Now as usual you cite verses out of the general context of the Quran to try to mislead people, as it is clear that rituals between the people of the book and Muslims are sometimes slightly different. For instance, Muslims do not have any rites regarding Easter, eventhough it was revealed to Moses. We have another example of a slighly different ritual with 17107 showing us that Jewish people used to prostrate on their chins during Salaat.- The way Muslims prostrate is described in the following verse
(4829) Muhammad is the messenger of God, and those with him are fierce against the disbelievers and compassionate among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating (yes we are talking about Salaat) seeking God?s favors and acceptance. Their faces bear the marks left by the prostrations ( , most notably in Salaat). Such is their parable in the Torah as well as their parable in the Gospel they are like a seed which puts forth its sprout, then strengthens itself, becomes thick and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers, while enraging the disbelievers. God has promised forgiveness as well as an immense reward to those among them who believe and do deeds of righteousness.
Here's bad news for Ayman "the marks left by the prostrations" ("prostrations" is a regular Arabic plural which means by definition three prostrations or more) mean that it is the many physical prostrations that leave a physical mark on the faces of people who observe Salaat (when they are not arrogant and accept to pray as described in the Quran). The only place where the physical prostrations leave a mark on the face is the forehead; Any Muslim who prays five times has a very slight mark on the forehead that people can usually hardly see, but it is there.
This shows once more how Ayman does all he can to lead people astray, consistently citing verses out of context, and keeping silent, or manipulating the true sense of words to extract a different meaning every time something does not go his way.
Yes Ayman is one of those arrogant people who refuses to prostrate mentally and physically as he too proud, and disobeys the command of his lord like satan when he refused to prostrate before Adam.Here is what is promised to such people
6842 The day will come when they will be exposed, and they will be required to fall prostrate, but they will be unable to. 6843 With their eyes subdued, humiliation will cover them. They were invited to fall prostrate when they were whole and able.Anyone who wants to end up on the Day of Judgment like the arrogant people who refuse to follow God's command to prostrate physically during Salaat, go ahead, and do not EVER dare to claim you were not warned.
Ayman and like minded people are playing right now feeding their egos, on the Day of Judgment it will be game over.
Pierre
- We see that the people of the book in 17107-17108 prostrate on their chins
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Here is what is promised to such people
6842 The day will come when they will be exposed, and they will be required to fall prostrate, but they will be unable to. 6843 With their eyes subdued, humiliation will cover them. They were invited to fall prostrate when they were whole and able.http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/068.%20Al%20Qalam/68.42.gif
The Day the shin is distanced from the shin
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/068.%20Al%20Qalam/68.42a.gif
and they will be called towards the prostration, thereat/for reason they will not be able to make it possible for their selves to prostrate,
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/068.%20Al%20Qalam/68.43a.gif
And indeed they used to be called towards prostrations while they were in sound free state.6834-52
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Peace Pierre,
- We see that the people of the book in 17107-17108 prostrate on their chins
(17107) Proclaim ?Believe in it (Quran) or not, verily, when it is recited to those who were blessed with knowledge before this, (1st prostration) they fall on their chins prostrating. (1710 And they proclaim ?Praise be to our Lord ! Indeed the prophecy of our Lord has assuredly been fulfilled !? (17109) (2nd prostration) And they fall on their chins in tears, as it increases their reverence.
First of all this shows that you are a liar when you claim that a prostration is a not physical prostration.
Now as usual you cite verses out of the general context of the Quran to try to mislead people, as it is clear that rituals between the people of the book and Muslims are sometimes slightly different. For instance, Muslims do not have any rites regarding Easter, eventhough it was revealed to Moses. We have another example of a slighly different ritual with 17107 showing us that Jewish people used to prostrate on their chins during Salaat.
The passage says those who were already given the knowledge. So falling to the chin in prostration is what the knowledgeable do. We should all hope that we are amongst those given the knowledge and as soon as we hear the great reading we obey the god. Of course you are not from the knowledgeable. You think that you know better than the god. This demonstrates that you cannot prostrate even physically per your own understanding. Are you too proud to prostrate to the chin like those who were given the knowledge (if you understand it physically)?
- The way Muslims prostrate is described in the following verse
(4829) Muhammad is the messenger of God, and those with him are fierce against the disbelievers and compassionate among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating (yes we are talking about Salaat) seeking God?s favors and acceptance. Their faces bear the marks left by the prostrations ( , most notably in Salaat). Such is their parable in the Torah as well as their parable in the Gospel they are like a seed which puts forth its sprout, then strengthens itself, becomes thick and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers, while enraging the disbelievers. God has promised forgiveness as well as an immense reward to those among them who believe and do deeds of righteousness.
You have a lying forehead. If you are not a liar, can you please underline the word "forehead" in the passage?
The ONLY time the "forehead" is mentioned with "sujud" is in this passage that talks about those who divert from the REAL "salat"
96015-019.
SHAKIR
Nay! if he desist not, We would certainly smite his forehead,
A lying, sinful forehead.
Then let him summon his council,
We too would summon the braves of the army.
Nay! obey him not, and make obeisance and draw nigh (to Allah).Notice that Shakir translates prostration as "obeisance" and not as physical prostration since it is added to the "draw near", which is 100% sure not physical. It is also in contrast to obeying people like you with the lying errant forehead.
Here's bad news for Ayman "the marks left by the prostrations" ("prostrations" is a regular Arabic plural which means by definition three prostrations or more) mean that it is the many physical prostrations that leave a physical mark on the faces of people who observe Salaat (when they are not arrogant and accept to pray as described in the Quran).
I have good news for Pierre, which is that the plural of the singular form "sajdah" is "sajadat" not "sujud". )
The only place where the physical prostrations leave a mark on the face is the forehead; Any Muslim who prays five times has a very slight mark on the forehead that people can usually hardly see, but it is there.
http//newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44775000/jpg/_44775753_zebiba226.jpg
The mark that you are talking about is actually a type of skin dermatitis due to friction against a rough surface. This is why it also appears on other areas of the body such as the elbows and the knees and the feet. This often develops into a fungal infection and this is why you can often see little white spots on the so-called ?prayer bump?.
From
http//www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/Prayer+bump?cx=partner-pub-0939450753529744%3Av0qd01-tdlq&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=Prayer+bump&sa=Search#922Prayer bumps are almost never present in women, rarely in establishment clerics, and are far more common in Egypt than in other countries; for these reasons they are generally seen as an intentional shibboleth of religious identity more than a passive product of regular prayer.
According to Pierre?s twisted logic Bin Laden and all the stupid terrorists are pious since they have the ?prayer bump?.
This shows once more how Ayman does all he can to lead people astray, consistently citing verses out of context, and keeping silent, or manipulating the true sense of words to extract a different meaning every time something does not go his way.
Yes Ayman is one of those arrogant people who refuses to prostrate mentally and physically as he too proud, and disobeys the command of his lord like satan when he refused to prostrate before Adam.Here is what Classical Arabic dictionaries say about "sjd"
Translation "sjd" = submit/obey (non physical)
I have no problem with prostrating physically if this is how you understand it. However, if one understands ?sujud? physically then by the same token it must be to the chin.
On the other hand, the hypocrites simply show off by prostrating to their lying and errant forehead. Those are the hypocrites who divert from the real ?salat? and instead work backwards to justify their preconceptions about ?salat? from their forefathers. This is why you keep evading and are unable to say what NEW better observations you bring beyond what sectarian hypocrites already blindly follow from their forefathers.
Peace,
Ayman
- We see that the people of the book in 17107-17108 prostrate on their chins
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Salam Pierre
<<<When it comes to Salaat, only those who are arrogant refuse to prostrate physically before God.>>>
I totally agree with you there.
Quote<<<Same case for 4829. Only people filled with arrogance refuse to prostrate physically and well as mentally before God in their ritual prayers. As for the mark due to prostration, as I said in my article, it is not the type of self inflicted mark that al Qaida type of people inflict on themselves. It simply acknowledges that the foreheads of those who submit to God actually touch the ground. People who observe Salaat 5 times a day have an almost indistinguishable mark on their foreheads due to the prostrations..>>>
I pray 5 times a day and have always done so but sorry there is no mark on my forehead and the other submitters who I know.
If the mark is some thing like what you are trying to tell us then those Idolaters who have it on their foreheads are on the right path!
I?m sorry your interpretation not only doesn?t make sense but also is absurd and opens the gate to hypocrites claiming the mark of obedience on their faces/foreheads by deceiving the people?Surely this is not what God means?.I?ve witnessed the sign of prostration on the faces of true believers when the verses of God recite to them ?Their faces change filling with joy and happiness and show their sincerity standing by command of God ,that?s the mark of prostration to me?...Any time I see these believers I feel happy .Quote<<<it is especially recommended to recite the Quran in our Salaat at Dawn (177, and 2945 is very clear about it as well. I did not make it up, and I would never dare to claim (God forbid) it is haraam to recite the Quran during Salaat as it would be creating a false prohibition. We know how catastrophic it is to create false prohibitions.
It is absolutely wonderful to observe Salaat five times a day, recite sura 1, and a few verses or suras from the Quran on which we deeply meditate and make the Quran part of our daily lives.>>>God specifically tells us observe Al-Salat and recite the Quran ?.These two are to different actions.
In 1778 one verb is for these two actions?You?re interpreting them as one which is wrong?..First God is asking us to do Salat and then reminding us about observing the Quran at Fajr/dawn??.It?s like someone tell you ?shut the door and the window??Are you going to take them as one action?And same applies for 2945 ?In this verse one verb is for reciting the Quran and the other is for Al-Salat??.It means these two are 2 different actions ?.you interpret the verse as reciting the Quran in our Salat?..God is very precise...If He wanted us to read the Quran back to Him then He would have clearly told us ??God specifically tells us not to teach Him our religion.
Quran is for us not for God to be read back to Him?.When we meditate with it God our Teacher teaches us what we need to know but when we observing the Salat we show our obedience to Him by announcing Who He is to us and Him Alone we chosen to be worshiped.Problem with you and those who think like you is that you verbally claim that Rashad was a messenger but claming that he made mistakes in observing his Contact prayer?That?s why you come up with this kind of interpretation confusing others.
BTW could you please tell me where about in the Quran God says about number 66?
Believe me the damage done by you and those who have claimed other numbers other than 19 in the Quran people like Ayman and Wakas haven?t done it?At least we know what their stand is but with you people you?re the source of confusion by insulting God?s Messenger as his prayer, Zakat and Hajj were wrong plus creating the hadith of other numbers in the Quran.
Rashad knew he was a messenger of God for 8 years and he prayed and led the prayer ?after eight years God asked him to announce his messngership to the world?.would you think God asked a stray man to announce that he was His chosen one? Would you think God didn?t guide Rashad to Contact Him through Salat but guided you? Well to me your claim is sign of arrogance?..The same people who rejected other messengers by making all kind of excuses you are making some plausible excuses as believing in Rashad as messenger but was misguided one.Woooooooow
Asana
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It is a fact.
"Hardly seeing" part? Definitely. And you completely missed what Wakas was referring to. At any rate, If that's not the definition of irony, I don't know what irony is.
I find it funny that people in this thread use this atrocious logic If you don't prostrate before God, you're arrogant!
No one opposed to physical prostration has any qualms with physically prostrating before the God. The fact is, that action IN ITSELF does not result in obedience! You can prostrate 80,000 times a day, commit sins rest of the time. Does that mean your 'prostration' yielded in submission? The act in itself proves NOTHING. It is useless.
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Salam Pierre
<<<When it comes to Salaat, only those who are arrogant refuse to prostrate physically before God.>>>
I totally agree with you there.
Quote<<<Same case for 4829. Only people filled with arrogance refuse to prostrate physically and well as mentally before God in their ritual prayers. As for the mark due to prostration, as I said in my article, it is not the type of self inflicted mark that al Qaida type of people inflict on themselves. It simply acknowledges that the foreheads of those who submit to God actually touch the ground. People who observe Salaat 5 times a day have an almost indistinguishable mark on their foreheads due to the prostrations..>>>
I pray 5 times a day and have always done so but sorry there is no mark on my forehead and the other submitters who I know.
If the mark is some thing like what you are trying to tell us then those Idolaters who have it on their foreheads are on the right path!
I?m sorry your interpretation not only doesn?t make sense but also is absurd and opens the gate to hypocrites claiming the mark of obedience on their faces/foreheads by deceiving the people?Surely this is not what God means?.I?ve witnessed the sign of prostration on the faces of true believers when the verses of God recite to them ?Their faces change filling with joy and happiness and show their sincerity standing by command of God ,that?s the mark of prostration to me?...Any time I see these believers I feel happy .Quote<<<it is especially recommended to recite the Quran in our Salaat at Dawn (177, and 2945 is very clear about it as well. I did not make it up, and I would never dare to claim (God forbid) it is haraam to recite the Quran during Salaat as it would be creating a false prohibition. We know how catastrophic it is to create false prohibitions.
It is absolutely wonderful to observe Salaat five times a day, recite sura 1, and a few verses or suras from the Quran on which we deeply meditate and make the Quran part of our daily lives.>>>God specifically tells us observe Al-Salat and recite the Quran ?.These two are to different actions.
In 1778 one verb is for these two actions?You?re interpreting them as one which is wrong?..First God is asking us to do Salat and then reminding us about observing the Quran at Fajr/dawn??.It?s like someone tell you ?shut the door and the window??Are you going to take them as one action?And same applies for 2945 ?In this verse one verb is for reciting the Quran and the other is for Al-Salat??.It means these two are 2 different actions ?.you interpret the verse as reciting the Quran in our Salat?..God is very precise...If He wanted us to read the Quran back to Him then He would have clearly told us ??God specifically tells us not to teach Him our religion.
Quran is for us not for God to be read back to Him?.When we meditate with it God our Teacher teaches us what we need to know but when we observing the Salat we show our obedience to Him by announcing Who He is to us and Him Alone we chosen to be worshiped.Problem with you and those who think like you is that you verbally claim that Rashad was a messenger but claming that he made mistakes in observing his Contact prayer?That?s why you come up with this kind of interpretation confusing others.
BTW could you please tell me where about in the Quran God says about number 66?
Believe me the damage done by you and those who have claimed other numbers other than 19 in the Quran people like Ayman and Wakas haven?t done it?At least we know what their stand is but with you people you?re the source of confusion by insulting God?s Messenger as his prayer, Zakat and Hajj were wrong plus creating the hadith of other numbers in the Quran.
Rashad knew he was a messenger of God for 8 years and he prayed and led the prayer ?after eight years God asked him to announce his messngership to the world?.would you think God asked a stray man to announce that he was His chosen one? Would you think God didn?t guide Rashad to Contact Him through Salat but guided you? Well to me your claim is sign of arrogance?..The same people who rejected other messengers by making all kind of excuses you are making some plausible excuses as believing in Rashad as messenger but was misguided one.Woooooooow
Asana
Salaam Asana,
In my opinion, Rashad simply opened the way of Islam based on the Quran alone He corrected the Chahadah (but recited a different one in Salaat than the Quranic one in 318, and the one he himself corrected "ash hadu an la elaha el aAllah", he discarded hadiths, he unveiled the miracle of 19 and purifiedQuran form 9128-129. I totally believe in his messengership as the miracle which surrounds his death makes it overwhelmingly clear (http//www.islamrevolution.org/rashadsdeathandsura19.htm).
Beside this, I could cite a number of mistakes he made, and it does not matter at this point. His english translation is very badly written and very imperfect. Yet, some non native English speakers claim it is perfect, as they idolize Rashad. Ask any well educated native English speaker, he will tell you that Rashad's translation is less than average when it comes to the quality of the English language. My point is we need to follow Quran alone, not Rashad's hadiths.Number 66, as you know is the gematrical value of Allah. I wrote a short article about some observations I made about how it connects with number 19 on islamrevolution.org. What's the big deal. The miracle of 19 does not stop with what Rashad witnessed.
The way you see the "mark of prostrations" is very enlightening to me. I personnally condemn the extremists who self inflict a scar on their forehead (to brag about their so called observance of Islam). As we see it so often in the Quran, words have a spiritual and physical meaning, and it is the case for prostration. Prostrating physically is only valid when God knows our hearts and minds also submit to Him; and claiming we prostrate before God only mentally, but refusing to prostrate physically as He commanded us in the Quranic ritual displays profound arrogance, not submission. It is like observing salaat, but refusing to pay the Zakat Salaat is about believing and glorifying God, Zakat is about putting physically our belief in practice by doing do good deeds. Salaat is the same way Both mental and physical, as it augments our reverence to God.
As for Salaat, I totally respect your way. In my opinion, Salaat is a two way communication with God, as I already said, not just a one way glorification. When we recite sura 1, we glorify God and it is for God, when we read the Quran, it is to meditate and be inspired by God's message; Salaat is the way to make the Quran, the whole quran, part of our daily lives five times a day.
In 1778 the general time frame from the Noon until the Dawn Salaat is indicated (which shows the morning time frame is not a Salaat time frame). The verse is about "observing Salaat", still God refers to the Dawn Salaat as the "recitation at Dawn" (The Quran at Dawn)
(177 Observe the ritual prayer ( ة (O Mohammed) when the sun declines (in the sky from its highest point) until the darkness of the night, and the recitation (the Qur?an) at dawn. Verily, witnesses attend the recitation (the Qur?an) at dawn.This is in my view a clear indication that reading the Quran while "observing Salaat" (general context of the verse) is a reality of Islam, as practiced everywhere in the Muslim world.
I recited only sura 1 in my salaat for years, and it is a valid Salaat. My experience as reciting additional suras or verses is incredibly uplifting and makes the whole Quran part of my life every day, especially in the morning, but also at other times. I feel closer than ever to the Quran as I am in constant contact with the whole Quran.This is my understanding and personnal experience, I truly respect yours.
Peace.
Pierre
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Salaam Ayman,
The scar that extremists inflict upon themselves is not genuine submission to God, and I condemned it in my main article on Salaat by the way.
People who observe Salaat five times day will have a more or less obvious physical mark on their face; As I said, usually it is very slight. How obvious it is is not what matters, as God knows who prostrates mentally and physically, and who does not.As for verse 9615 that you mentioned, it is simply the same pattern of deceit that you repeat over and over.
Let us put the verse in its context, which you are not good at doing because it exposes you regularly961 Read, in the name of your Lord, who created.* 962 He created man from an embryo. 963 Read, and your Lord, Most Exalted. 964 Teaches by means of the pen. 965 He teaches man what he never knew. 966 Indeed, the human transgresses. 967 When he becomes rich. 968 To your Lord is the ultimate destiny. 969 Have you seen the one who enjoins. 9610 Others from praying? 9611 Is it not better for him to follow the guidance? 9612 Or advocate righteousness? 9613 If he disbelieves and turns away. 9614 Does he not realize that GOD sees? 9615 Indeed, unless he refrains, we will take him by the forelock. 9616 A forelock that is disbelieving and sinful. 9617 Let him then call on his helpers. 9618 We will call the guardians of Hell. 9619 You shall not obey him; you shall fall prostrate and draw nearer.
Ayman leads people astray and away from Salaat by corrupting it, and refuses to prostrate physically before God. The answer to people like Ayman who claim we should not prostrate in salaat is provided by 9619 You shall not obey him; you shall fall prostrate and draw nearer.
Don't you see how God designs his verses to expose people like Ayman ?! Glory to God !!! -
Hardly see? ;D
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/048.%20Al%20Fatha/48.29c.gif
Their identification mark are evident/embeded in their bodies from the traces of the prostrations."Traces" means barely detectable amount, i.e. too small to be quantified.
The preposition "fe" does not mean "upon". And "wajuhehim" also refers to whole self, not necessarily face.
Check the traces on the body of any one who prostrates, you will conveniently and invariably see it on ankle and under knee caps, if one could not detect it on forehead.
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The scar that extremists inflict upon themselves is not genuine submission to God, and I condemned it in my main article on Salaat by the way.
People who observe Salaat five times day will have a more or less obvious physical mark on their face; As I said, usually it is very slight. How obvious it is is not what matters, as God knows who prostrates mentally and physically, and who does not.
So how do you tell the difference between the extremists who are not genuinely submitting and those who are, considering they both will have marks on their forehead according to you. Otherwise those 2 sentenses above contradict each other.
As for verse 9615 that you mentioned, it is simply the same pattern of deceit that you repeat over and over.
Let us put the verse in its context, which you are not good at doing because it exposes you regularly961 Read, in the name of your Lord, who created.* 962 He created man from an embryo. 963 Read, and your Lord, Most Exalted. 964 Teaches by means of the pen. 965 He teaches man what he never knew. 966 Indeed, the human transgresses. 967 When he becomes rich. 968 To your Lord is the ultimate destiny. 969 Have you seen the one who enjoins. 9610 Others from praying? 9611 Is it not better for him to follow the guidance? 9612 Or advocate righteousness? 9613 If he disbelieves and turns away. 9614 Does he not realize that GOD sees? 9615 Indeed, unless he refrains, we will take him by the forelock. 9616 A forelock that is disbelieving and sinful. 9617 Let him then call on his helpers. 9618 We will call the guardians of Hell. 9619 You shall not obey him; you shall fall prostrate and draw nearer.
Ayman leads people astray and away from Salaat by corrupting it, and refuses to prostrate physically before God. The answer to people like Ayman who claim we should not prostrate in salaat is provided by 9619 You shall not obey him; you shall fall prostrate and draw nearer.
Don't you see how God designs his verses to expose people like Ayman ?! Glory to God !!!You are a liar and you are exposed as one. Ayman has nowhere refused to prostrate before God or lead anyone away from salat. The problem is you have not quite grasped what he is saying regarding salat and as such have decided to speak of what you know nothing of and label him, which has exposed you. It would be better for you to try to understand the logic and reasoning behind what is being said before you rush in and label someone in the way you have, to do that though you will have to put your preconceptions aside and step out of the box you are stuck in thinking it's right and there is no other explanation.
Physical prostration is done daily 5 times a day by millions, but how many are doing sujud as per Allah? Think about it, the first part of the quote above may help if you can answer that.
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Salaam Pierre
It?s interesting that make your own rules for obeying messenger of God!......I?m talking about messenger not him as human being.
You say Rashad corrected the Shahada but then you follow your own findings and advising others to follow/listen you!....Are you a messenger in disguise?!
You say he discarded hadith .Well then you?re up to making up your own hadith about observing the Salat causing confusion the same way that hadith makers and collectors and promoters did.
You say that you believe in his messngership but claiming that you have found the right way of observing Salat which means you?re guided to tell us the correct way of observing the Salat etc but God did NOT guide His own chosen one, the one who should have set a good example by observing them in right way?wow so much for believing in him Pierre.
You criticize his translation by saying that there are grammatically mistakes and is written in poor language?Were you expecting for a perfect English version of Quran that you?re making such a statement?
Is that why you think you?re guided better than him to deliver the right way of Contacting/Salat God etc?You didn?t answer to my question that how come God after 8 years of his messngership asked this man to announce his messngership to the world?.Is it because you know whatever you say is an insult to God?
Well Pierre you can hide your answer from us but God knows your innermost thought... You and those who think like you when it comes to setting a good example should remember that God says messenger set a good example not you or anybody else beside you.God says that He and His messenger are the winners?.Therefore take this as backfire on you and please stop causing more confusion among those who want to stay on Straight path of God without any doubt?.If God didn?t guide His own messenger then we should forget about it that there is any hope for you and me to be guided too!...This is what I call it a Satanic concept and a message that you and those who claiming about Rashad making mistakes about observing Salat are promoting in order to take away trust in God and His messenger causing confusion ,corruption and division?.All these are coming from your ego.
People are interested to know how God?s messenger observed his prayer, this essential act of worshiping God not you and others?.If he made mistakes about it according to you which mean he lost it according to your claim then you have to choose one between two, either he was a messenger of God on the right Path regarding Contacting God and paying Zakt, Hajj and fasting or he wasn?t a messenger of God because God says that He and His messengers are the winners??You can?t have both way.
Asana
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Their identification mark are evident/embeded in their bodies from the traces of the prostrations.
"Traces" means barely detectable amount, i.e. too small to be quantified.
The preposition "fe" does not mean "upon". And "wajuhehim" also refers to whole self, not necessarily face.
Check the traces on the body of any one who prostrates, you will conveniently and invariably see it on ankle and under knee caps, if one could not detect it on forehead.
I disagree with your last statement.
I analyse this specific verse here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html -
Quote from Mazhar on November 28, 2010, 024005 AM
Their identification mark are evident/embeded in their bodies from the traces of the prostrations."Traces" means barely detectable amount, i.e. too small to be quantified.
The preposition "fe" does not mean "upon". And "wajuhehim" also refers to whole self, not necessarily face.
Check the traces on the body of any one who prostrates, you will conveniently and invariably see it on ankle and under knee caps, if one could not detect it on forehead.
I disagree with your last statement.
I analyse this specific verse here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.htmlThis reference was under discussion on some other threads also.
The perception seems to have been arrived at even without determining the nature of relevant words. - is a verb and I need not say that a verb either signifies a physical act or describes a state.
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Salaam Pierre
It?s interesting that make your own rules for obeying messenger of God!......I?m talking about messenger not him as human being.
You say Rashad corrected the Shahada but then you follow your own findings and advising others to follow/listen you!....Are you a messenger in disguise?!
You say he discarded hadith .Well then you?re up to making up your own hadith about observing the Salat causing confusion the same way that hadith makers and collectors and promoters did.
You say that you believe in his messngership but claiming that you have found the right way of observing Salat which means you?re guided to tell us the correct way of observing the Salat etc but God did NOT guide His own chosen one, the one who should have set a good example by observing them in right way?wow so much for believing in him Pierre.
You criticize his translation by saying that there are grammatically mistakes and is written in poor language?Were you expecting for a perfect English version of Quran that you?re making such a statement?
Is that why you think you?re guided better than him to deliver the right way of Contacting/Salat God etc?You didn?t answer to my question that how come God after 8 years of his messngership asked this man to announce his messngership to the world?.Is it because you know whatever you say is an insult to God?
Well Pierre you can hide your answer from us but God knows your innermost thought... You and those who think like you when it comes to setting a good example should remember that God says messenger set a good example not you or anybody else beside you.God says that He and His messenger are the winners?.Therefore take this as backfire on you and please stop causing more confusion among those who want to stay on Straight path of God without any doubt?.If God didn?t guide His own messenger then we should forget about it that there is any hope for you and me to be guided too!...This is what I call it a Satanic concept and a message that you and those who claiming about Rashad making mistakes about observing Salat are promoting in order to take away trust in God and His messenger causing confusion ,corruption and division?.All these are coming from your ego.
People are interested to know how God?s messenger observed his prayer, this essential act of worshiping God not you and others?.If he made mistakes about it according to you which mean he lost it according to your claim then you have to choose one between two, either he was a messenger of God on the right Path regarding Contacting God and paying Zakt, Hajj and fasting or he wasn?t a messenger of God because God says that He and His messengers are the winners??You can?t have both way.
Asana
Salaam Asana,
I presented a study on Salaat based on the Quran, not Rashad. Am I perfect ? No.
I said the Quran is the perfect messenger, not Rashad.
Why was Rashad's Chahadah, the one he purified in the Quran (318, 3735, 4719, appendix 13) different in his Salaat ?
Can you show me one verse in the Quran which confirms the Chahadah he recited in his Salaat ?
You perfectly know which verse perfectly confirms the one he purified in appendix 13.
Over 20 years after Rashad's departure, we still have the right to study the Quran. The study I presented provides in my opinion a number of valuable remarks, and a sum of details I have not found elsewhere so far. The most valuable aspect is the explanation of the Salaat time frames. We need to understand that in depth, to help people not be fooled by people who lost the 5 Salawat.For Rashad's translation, look how many Submitters believe his translation is perfect. What happened with Rashad is the same as other messengers in the past some people started idolizing him. There are so many things you simply cannot understand from his translation if it is the only thing you read, because sometimes it is badly translated.
Example(2226) We appointed Abraham to establish the Shrine "You shall not idolize any other god beside Me, and purify My shrine for those who visit it (?!), those who live near it (?), and those who bow and prostrate. (Rashad' translation)
(2226) And we revealed to Abraham the location of the temple ?Do not associate anything beside Me, and purify My temple for those who do the Tawaf (ritual of circling the Kaaba), and those who stand, bow and prostrate (during Salaat). (a personal translation).Why did Rashad not preserve the meaning of the ritual of circling the Kaaba ("for those who who do the tawaf" = ) and "standing" ( = "those who stand" before you bow and prostrate ? (for instance, compare his translation of 2226 with 25 other translations at http//www.openburhan.net/) This is just one exemple, and there are many. Lots of Submitters read exclusively Rashad's translation, think it is perfect, and lose lots of the actual meaning of the Arabic Quran. If we listened to them, they would establish Rashad's translation as a standard on earth, and believe me, the quality of the English is very poor, it would not help people speak a better English, and it would spread lots of mistakes he made in his translation.
In addition he sometimes misinterpreted the Quran, for instance he believed that satan is the Khalifa on earth, when it is Adam whom God appointed as a Khalifa on earth (satan is horribly jealous of that)
(230) When your Lord said to the angels I am going to place a vicegerent (Khalifah) on earth. They said "Will You place there one who will make mischief and shed blood while we sing Your praises and glorify Your name?" Allah said "I know what you know not." (231) He taught Adam the names of all things; then He presented the things to the angels and said "Tell Me the names of these if what you say is true?" (232) Glory to You, they replied, "we have no knowledge except what You have taught us in fact You are the One who is perfect in knowledge and wisdom." (233) Allah said "O Adam! Tell them the names." When Adam told them the names, Allah said "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of the heavens and the earth and I know what you reveal and what you conceal?" (234) When We ordered the angels (including satan) "Prostrate before Adam" they all prostrated except Iblees (Satan) who refused in his arrogance and became a disbeliever.
(1850) When We said to the angels "Prostrate yourself before Adam," all prostrated themselves except Iblees (Satan), who was one of the Jinns and chose to disobey the command of his Lord. Would you then take him and his children as your protectors rather than Me, even though they are your enemies? What a bad substitute the wrongdoers have chosen!The above verses show that Adam is the khalifah appointed by God on earth, not satan. satan is a fallen angel, and as an angel, he was asked like all other angels to prostrate before Adam (therefore he cannot be the khalifah), which he refused out of arrogance. This also shows, in my opinion, that jinns are fallen angels, who rebelled against God. This is why we see in the Quran that they still have angel like powers (for instance 2740).
Also check in 1850 how Rashad mistranslated "he became a jinn" instead of "he was one of the jinns" (kaana minal jinni, ).
The "Khalifah" issue (Adam or satan) was a huge miss from Rashad, and there are others. Rashad simply reopened and prepared the way (Malichi 3) to restore Islam based exclusively on the Quran. He was far from perfect. I have personnally no doubt that Rashad was a messenger and a purifier, and we cannot be blind regarding his mistakes. One more time The Quran is the perfect messenger.Peace.
Pierre
