Proof Qur'an-alone is Error
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Peace "Badr"
JK- But this can just as well be understood as spiritual remedy or societal remedy or even learning about GOD's world and deriving medicine to cure diseases therefrom BUT NOT necessarily remedy via supernatural faith healing. GOD Bless!
But this can not also as the primal signification is clear, you leave the first degree understanding to look for another meaning while you risk to miss the true one.
God states it clearly And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing for the believers
like There comes forth from within it a beverage of many colours, in which there is healing for men;
You understand these verses differently ?
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Peace again "Badr",
Btw you still didn't reply to this and I consider this important. EVEN IF you insist that there is a differnce between the meanings of "khAmr" and "khUmr" in general, I told you in Quran the maximum we have are letters NOT vowel marks. So we could read the relevant term "khamr" as well as "khUmr". GOD Bless!
What is the definition of khUmr according to you ?
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Peace "BAdr",
But this can not also as the primal signification is clear, you leave the first degree understanding to look for another meaning while you risk to miss the true one.
JK- Where does it say that it primarily means what you say and as i said EVEN IF IT DOES it doesnt have to be direct but can be achieved by following the system laid out in the Quran. In that sense itd be physical just not as direct as you are claiming it.
God states it clearly And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing for the believers
like There comes forth from within it a beverage of many colours, in which there is healing for men;
You understand these verses differently ?
JK- As far as I'm aware even hadith followers don't insist that the first means physical direct healing via recitation. It all depedns on the context in which the word is used. This is so common. Like in sura 1 (yaumi deen) doies not mean "day of religion" whilst in other verses the same word is translated as such. Another example would be the word "daraba". You can have physical "daraba" as well as "daraba with mithaal" in which case it means symbolically to give/layout an example. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
JK- Head cover/simply a cover/something that covers the head/mind. GOD bless!
So xhen the prophet says "drink wine" he means drink a "head cover" ?
Book 023, Number 4956 (muslim) 'A'isha reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about Bit, whereupon he said Every drink that causes intoxication is forbidden.
or also in muslim
5331 - " " .
"Every intoxicant drink is forbidden"
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So xhen the prophet says "drink wine" he means drink a "head cover" ?
Book 023, Number 4956 (muslim) 'A'isha reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about Bit, whereupon he said Every drink that causes intoxication is forbidden.
or also in muslim
5331 - " " .
"Every intoxicant drink is forbidden"
which brings us back to reply 106 and 108
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Peace "Badr",
So xhen the prophet says "drink wine" he means drink a "head cover" ?
Book 023, Number 4956 (muslim) 'A'isha reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about Bit, whereupon he said Every drink that causes intoxication is forbidden.
or also in muslim
5331 - " " .
"Every intoxicant drink is forbidden"
JK- Just because you find a word spelled "kha-miim-ra" in two instances does NOT mean it cannot be read "khamr" in one and "khUmr" in another context. In context of that hadith it is probably makes more sense to use "khamr" cause of of the word "sukur" already used before it which means "that which covers the mind" already. In the relevant Quranic verse however this is not the case and so it is compeltely fine to read it "khumr". SO you can see and even acknowledged it yourself before that the same root and infact the same word can have more than one meaning in different contexts. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
JK- Just because you find a word spelled "kha-miim-ra" in two instances does NOT mean it cannot be read "khamr" in one and "khUmr" in another context. In context of that hadith it is probably makes more sense to use "khamr" cause of of the word "sukur" already used before it which means "that which covers the mind" already. In the relevant Quranic verse however this is not the case and so it is compeltely fine to read it "khumr". SO you can see and even acknowledged it yourself before that the same root and infact the same word can have more than one meaning in different contexts. GOD Bless!
it's not Kha-Mim-Ra it's khamr and it is not Sin-Kaf-Ra it's sukr, nothing to do with cover the head and cover the mind. Open a dictionnary and see.
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Peace "Badr"
it's not Kha-Mim-Ra it's khamr and it is not Sin-Kaf-Ra it's sukr, nothing to do with cover the head and cover the mind. Open a dictionnary and see.
JK- How is "kahmr" spelled if not "kha-miim-ra"? NOW i told you whenever we find a word spelled "kha-miim-ra" we can read it as "khamr" or "khumr" depending on what we think best suits the context. ALSO don't you know that the vowel marks were only introduced later to make reading easier especially for non Arabs? GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr"
JK- How is "kahmr" spelled if not "kha-miim-ra"? NOW i told you whenever we find a word spelled "kha-miim-ra" we can read it as "khamr" or "khumr" depending on what we think best suits the context. ALSO don't you know that the vowel marks were only introduced later to make reading easier especially for non Arabs? GOD Bless!
You can understand the sens from the context when it's about drinking it's khamr, when it talks about women it's khumr.
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Peace "Badr",
You can understand the sens from the context when it's about drinking it's khamr, when it talks about women it's khumr.
JK- 1st how can you say that in context of drinking whever that word is used additionally it must be "khamr"? SECONDLY nowehere do the verses mentioning "khmr" in association with "msr" and that those are "rijsn shtn" does it talk about drinking(shrb). Here are the verses
2219 They ask you about KHMR and MSR say, "In them there is a gross sin, and some benefits for the people. But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit."...
590 O you who believe, KHMR, AND MSR, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them, that you may succeed.
591 The devil wants to provoke animosity and hatred among you through KHMR and MSR, and to distract you from remembering GOD, and from observing the Contact Prayers (Salat). Will you then refrain?Where's "drinking" mentioned here? GOD Bless!
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Peace "Badr",
JK- 1st how can you say that in context of drinking whever that word is used additionally it must be "khamr"? SECONDLY nowehere do the verses mentioning "khmr" in association with "msr" and that those are "rijsn shtn" does it talk about drinking(shrb). Here are the verses
2219 They ask you about KHMR and MSR say, "In them there is a gross sin, and some benefits for the people. But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit."...it's obviously not a head cover here you have to agree that the head cover can't be that source of benefit and great sin.
590 O you who believe, KHMR, AND MSR, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them, that you may succeed.
591 The devil wants to provoke animosity and hatred among you through KHMR and MSR, and to distract you from remembering GOD, and from observing the Contact Prayers (Salat). Will you then refrain?The name of the surat says it all
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Peace "Badr",
it's obviously not a head cover here you have to agree that the head cover can't be that source of benefit and great sin.
JK- Why not? Somehting which covers the mind can have it's benefits as well as it's -ve point. And i understadn it as something covering the mind or a substance that intoxicates wshich is totally justified.
The name of the surat says it all
JK- 1st even hadith followers are not sure whether the names of suras are just there for convenience or whether they're divinely inspired so from that perspective it doesn't say much. 2ndly many suras which are headed by a certain topic do not speak about the same topic throughout but a wide range of topics which are repeated in other surahs again adding more or less detail. GOD Bless!
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like Abi Huraira for example, this one and a few others were trustworthy and the sayings they collected were transmitted untill today.
Abu Huraira was anything but trustworthy, he was a liar with a faulty memory and has been harshly criticized by Ayisha and Omar Ibn al-Khattab for his reckless distribution of hearsay about the prophet.
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Abu Huraira was anything but trustworthy, he was a liar with a faulty memory and has been harshly criticized by Ayisha and Omar Ibn al-Khattab for his reckless distribution of hearsay about the prophet.
He might not even have existed, given that he does not even appear in the muwatta of Malik. Funny how he's the most prolific narrator in the later hadith collections.
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Peace "Badr",
JK- Why not? Somehting which covers the mind can have it's benefits as well as it's -ve point. And i understadn it as something covering the mind or a substance that intoxicates wshich is totally justified.
JK- 1st even hadith followers are not sure whether the names of suras are just there for convenience or whether they're divinely inspired so from that perspective it doesn't say much. 2ndly many suras which are headed by a certain topic do not speak about the same topic throughout but a wide range of topics which are repeated in other surahs again adding more or less detail. GOD Bless!
Mmmmmh hmm NO !
Both arguments are too much forced.
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Abu Huraira was anything but trustworthy, he was a liar with a faulty memory and has been harshly criticized by Ayisha and Omar Ibn al-Khattab for his reckless distribution of hearsay about the prophet.
Says Leyna from free-minds.org
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He might not even have existed, given that he does not even appear in the muwatta of Malik. Funny how he's the most prolific narrator in the later hadith collections.
Says Mush from free-minds.org
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Says Mush from free-minds.org
Mushu, actually. And am I wrong? Is Abu Huraira present in the most important hadith collection in Sunni Islam? How come he's the most prolific narrator of authentic ahadith in the later collections but doesn't even make an appearance in the earliest? Do you smell something funny there?
Is it coincidental that some of the most outrageous hadith come from Abu Huraira, like the dipping of the fly, vomit out any water that you drink whilst standing, wipe your ass with odd number pebbles, satan farting during azaan, hell taking two breaths in the high summer and winter, women being cursed by angels, a fat man will be given no weight on the day of judgement as per the meaning of verse 18105, meat only decays because of Jews and women are unfaithful because of Eve, one should run away from a leper as one runs away from a lion, rats do not drink the milk of she camels but do drink milk of sheep because rats are are Jews changed by Allah, women are like a rib so don't try and straighten her, wash your hands when you wake up because you never know what your hands were up to when you sleep, Moses chasing his clothes like a buffoon and beating up a stone, yawning is from satan, satan stays in your nose during the night, cocks crow because they've seen an angel and donkeys bray when they see a satan, new-born babies cry because satan pricks them, Allah created clay on Saturday, mountains on Sunday etc., wash a utensil touched by a dog seven times, and so on?
The biggest insult is that you uphold such lies. You don't have the balls nor the honour to stand up for the Prophet and free him from such slander. You have been so severely conditioned to believe in these things that you would prefer to defend the ulema and their work than the character of the Prophet.
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Peace "Badr",
Mmmmmh hmm NO !
Both arguments are too much forced.
JK- You can say that and think so if you like but many people here find this much more reasonable and acceptable. There maybe better arguments in the future I'm not denying that much but in order to show that hadith are trustworthy and contain divine inspiration applicable to us, way much more is necessary. In our current understanding, rather impossible. GOD Bless!