WHO, IS QURAN TO BE RECITED TO...ALLAH OR MEN?
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Many say the koran is fully-detail in all matters, yet hopefully i will prove to you that this argument is very subjective and baseless.
Erm, actually GOD says it's fully detailed.
Peace.
Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed? Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice, there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a Quran in Arabic, for a people who know.
PEACE ZENJE
You stole my thunder...I was going to post those exact ayats.
I wonder how he rationalize not accepting them.
I am fully aware what GOD said about his scripture, al-quran. My dispute has nothing to do with what GOD said, but people abusing it and subjectively applying it.
For example, verses 6114-115. People love to quote this verses. They believe that these verse prove that nothing can exist outside the koran as important source of religious knowledge. However, if one read the verses right before these two, you learn that GOD was making specific reference to a particular subject matter. Abusing the Koran is quoting verses OUT OF CONTEXT, to prove baseless points.The verses is addressing lies attributed by "the enemies of every prophet." Then GOd said, shall you seek "GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?". Meaning "shall you believe and follow those lies when this book is fully-detailed in those matters."
The reason i say people abuse these verses is because NOT EVERYTHING IS FULLY DETASILED IN THE KORAN! For example, the dress code for submitting men and women are not fully-detailed. Yet when you bring this to the awareness of those who preach "everything in the koran only" they subjectively select this matter as not important as "spiritual guidance", contradicting themselves to what they testify. Although everthing in the Koran is for guidance only (2185), people who prech "koran only" would subjectively select what is guidance, "spiritual guidance" , koranic guidance, and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."
For example,
And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed.
Here is clear commandment for women to cover the their chest, and in other veres they (women) are told to lenghten their garment. However, it is not fully-detailed. For example
- How long?
- Cover what part of the chest?
- Cover what part of the body besides the chest?
- Can their legs show?
- Can thier arms show?
etc. etc.
And other questions can developed. Techinically, a woman can wear only a swiming suit and meet all the koranic standards of modesty "fully-detailed" in the Koran. Why? Because with a swiming suit or body suit, all the areas specfically mention are indeed cover.
However, when this argument is use, people say "will they have to be modest, and modesty mean not being sexually appealing". But this prove the inconsistency within the argument. For example, where did they get that defintion of "modesty", it was surely not the koran but outside the koran. Where did they get the defintion for most of the arabic words they redefine? Didnt you look into the "arabic dictionary" as a source outside the koran to understand the koran.
Techinicaly, accordingly to those who preach "koran in everything" argument, a women who seek information and knowledge from an outside source than koran in how to dress modestly, is committing idolatry since "everything is fully-detailed" in the Koran. this is illogical.
My point is, either way you look at it, people who testify to the "everything is in the Koran" argument is simply exposing themselves as contradicting, subjective, hypocritical. They never really use the koran as the only absolute source in seeking information, guidance, source of law, or understand meaning. Then when you expose this to them, they subjective select what is important in the koran and what is not. However, the koran never classify the koran in such catergories but only a guidance (4144). Thats why they use terms like "spritual guidance" and "spiritual development" as a way to aviod this factual statement that not everything is fully-detailed in the koran. However, when God states "fully-detailed" it is always use in context.
However, when people seek knowledge to understand the koran using, previous scripture, history, mathematical structure, we are considerd "seeking a source of law outside the Koran." that is illogical and hypocritical.
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PEACE SHM
O.K., we will move forward with the issue of..."fully detailed".
"The reason i say people abuse these verses is because NOT EVERYTHING IS FULLY DETASILED IN THE KORAN!...and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."
Alright, tell us then...what does Allah mean when He says
- Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
18.54] And certainly We have explained in this Quran every kind of example, and man is most of all given to contention.
Allah, in the following ayat, makes it clear that by Book He means Al-Quran
41.3 A Book of which the ayats are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know
28.2 These are the ayats of the Book that makes (things) clear.
Given the above ayats then, what does Allah mean when he defines His Quran as fully detailed?
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PEACE SHM
O.K., we will move forward with the issue of..."fully detailed".
"The reason i say people abuse these verses is because NOT EVERYTHING IS FULLY DETASILED IN THE KORAN!...and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."
Alright, tell us then...what does Allah mean when He says
- Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
18.54] And certainly We have explained in this Quran every kind of example, and man is most of all given to contention.
Allah, in the following ayat, makes it clear that by Book He means Al-Quran
41.3 A Book of which the ayats are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know
28.2 These are the ayats of the Book that makes (things) clear.
Given the above ayats then, what does Allah mean when he defines His Quran as fully detailed?
do you actually read my entire post or just glance at it?
Given the above ayats then, what does Allah mean when he defines His Quran as fully detailed?
that question denpends on context.
"The reason i say people abuse these verses is because NOT EVERYTHING IS FULLY DETASILED IN THE KORAN!...and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."
***i like how you edit my statement which was an example of how it is not "fully-detailed". Very clever and shady wink
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SHM
that question denpends on context.
For you to make this claim, you must then provide the ayat where Allah says..."EXCEPT", otherwise, you are saying something, again, which Allah did not say Himself. The following ayats not context bound, but rather, are ALL inclusive statements
16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
18.54 And certainly We have explained in this Quran every kind of example, and man is most of all given to contention.
Can you read, brother? I really don't understand how you cannot grasp two such absolutely crystal clear ayats. Is it because you just love to argue/be contentious, as it says in 1854? Do you really want to be of those to whom the following ayat applies?
2.6 Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.
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SHM
that question denpends on context.
For you to make this claim, you must then provide the ayat where Allah says..."EXCEPT", otherwise, you are saying something, again, which Allah did not say Himself. The following ayats not context bound, but rather, are ALL inclusive statements
You know what...you are right. GOD need to say "except".
So can you please show me where it is in the Koran i can find the instruction on how to make a car. Oh and how to design a website. please. -
SHM
You know what...you are right. GOD need to say "except".
Yes, He does, and, in fact, in at least two places in Al-Quran, He uses the word..."except".
So can you please show me where it is in the Koran i can find the instruction on how to make a car. Oh and how to design a website. please
.You really need to control yourself and stop making comments like this. Your comments, whether you know it or not or believe it or not, are contemptuous of Allah and His Quran. You need to do this for your own sake, because in the end, it is you will who experience the consequences of your actions.
Moving on...
Allah says that
5156 And I have not created the jinn and the men except that they should serve Me.
How do Jinn and men know how to serve Allah? The following ayats answer that question
2.185 The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance...
17.9 Surely this Quran guides to that which is most upright and gives good news to the believers who do good that they shall have a great reward.
What did/does Quran guide men to..the Straight Path.
42.52 And thus did We reveal to you an inspired book by Our command. You did not know what the Book was, nor (what) the faith (was), but We made IT a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants; and most surely you show the way to the Straight Path
19.36 And surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the Straight Path.
Now, why should Jinn and men follow the Straight Path by serving Allah? Well, if they serve Allah, then they inherit Paradise and, if they don't,...Hell, hence, the "object of life"/reason for the the existence of Jinn and men, is to gain Paradise
3185 Every soul shall have a taste of death And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life) For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception.
413 Those are limits set by Allah. Those who obey Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (for ever) and that will be the Supreme Achievement.
Ayat 5156 explains cleary the reason for our existence--to serve Allah, and we serve Him by doing good deeds/practicing righteousness, as detailed in HIS Book of Truth/Light/Clear Proofs--AL-QUR-AN.
The object of life, therefore, is to do good deeds/practice righteousness so that Allah will grant us the Supreme Achievement--Paradise. Allah, gave us Al-Qur-an for our guidance/growth/development and for the establishing of Islamic jurisprudence, in order that we practice righteousness in this world and, by doing so, enter Paradise in the next.
With this in mnd then, what hasn't Allah hasn't fully explained/detailed, in the best way, in His Qur-an towards that end and, what question/arguement cannot be definitively answered in Qur'an, toward this end?The above ayats should put to rest that, indeed, Al-Quran is fully detailed.
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The object of life, therefore, is to do good deeds/practice righteousness so that Allah will grant us the Supreme Achievement--Paradise.
i agree, that is indeed the object of life.
Allah, gave us Al-Qur-an for our guidance/growth/development and for the establishing of Islamic jurisprudence, in order that we practice righteousness in this world and, by doing so, enter Paradise in the next.
i agree, the koran was given for our guidance, period.
With this in mnd then
are you admitting to CONTEXT....hmmm...interesting
With this in mnd then, what hasn't Allah hasn't fully explained/detailed, in the best way, in His Qur-an towards that end and, what question/arguement cannot be definitively answered in Qur'an, toward this end?
Ah....That is the problem. YOU subjectively select the context of "fully-detailed." It is the same old argument you and other use. I already explain how the koran is not "fully-detailed" by your concept of "everything in the koran only" argument, but here it is again.
The dress code for submitting men and women are not fully-detailed. Yet when you bring this to the awareness of those who preach "everything in the koran only" they subjectively select this matter as not important as "spiritual guidance", contradicting themselves to what they testify. IF our dress is not important or in the context of "spiritual development" WHY WOULD GOD EVEN MENTION IT! Although everthing in the Koran is for guidance only (2185), people who preach "koran in everything only" would subjectively select what is guidance, "spiritual guidance" , koranic guidance, and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."
That is exactly what you are doing "Priest." Yet you are completely unaware of it. You are subjectively selecting what GOD means by fully-detailed. You know if GOD didnt say it Himself, YOU are saying it for him right, lying on Him right?
Did GOD say the koran is only for spiritual, religious, human development and all those other "classifications" you developed. NO. Or maybe you have an "hidden" ayat to quote that says that exactly. But remember, if GOD didnt say it, you are saying it for Him.
I dont think we are on the same track. So i will ask some simply questions to prove my point. What does "everything" means? Okay now read this verse.
The day will come when we will raise from every community a witness from among them, and bring you as the witness of these people. We have revealed to you this book to provide explanations for everything, and guidance, and mercy, and good news for the submitters.
Please noted it says "EVERYTHING AND GUIDANCE", isolating the two elements as something different and not similar.
Yes, He does, and, in fact, in at least two places in Al-Quran, He uses the word..."except".
Okay....Did GOD use "except" here? If he didnt, which he didnt, what does "everything" mean. The verse clearly states an "explanations for everything." So "everything" here means "everything" or "somethings" or just "religions things"? If everything mean EVERYTHING, please show me the ayats which shows how to make a islamic website to preach islam to everyone, or ho to develop a car, or how to read arabic., or how to define salat.
The above ayats should put to rest that, indeed, Al-Quran is fully detailed.
You have-not shown any proof that can testify to your subjective context of "fully-detailed". Why? All the verses I have read that states "fully-detailed" DOESNOT say
"only in religious issues" nor those it say
"only to obtain prardise" nor does it say
"only in our life objective" nor does it say
"only in for our guidance/growth/development"
nor does it say "only establishing of Islamic jurisprudence."
THE KORAN doesnot have these assertions by you.It says EVERYTHING. (1689) It says EVERY KIND OF EXAMPLE (18.54) But gives NO EXCEPTIONS.
what hasn't Allah hasn't fully explained/detailed, in the best way, in His Qur-an towards that end and, what question/arguement cannot be definitively answered in Qur'an, toward this end?
remember when you ask me the show the verse where GOD says or used the word "ritual." And remember when i said, it will come back to hunt you. well....
i will use the same words you used. If the koran is only the guidance for "obtaining our goal in life" or "towards the end"..........
For you to make this claim, you must then provide the ayat where Allah says..."toward this end" or "fully-detail for obtaining our life goal", otherwise, you are saying something, again, which Allah did not say Himself.
Please show me the exact ayat or admit you dont have it.
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Zenje
According to your logical, you know if you use an arabic dictionary to define koranic words, that is a source of explaination outside the koran right? you are contradicting those verse (6115-114)?
A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a Quran in Arabic, for a people who know.
So, if you are learning arabic and ask the techer what salat mean or how to develop the meaning for salat using root words or whatever, you are not using the koran and therefore using an outside source for religious guidance right?
If not, please show an ayat that proves you SHOULD ONLY use the koran to define arabic words.
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SHM
PREIST With this in mnd then, what hasn't Allah hasn't fully explained/detailed, in the best way, in His Qur-an towards that end and, what question/arguement cannot be definitively answered in Qur'an, toward this end?
Ah....That is the problem. YOU subjectively select the context of "fully-detailed." It is the same old argument you and other use. I already explain how the koran is not "fully-detailed" by your concept of "everything in the koran only" argument, but here it is again.
The dress code for submitting men and women are not fully-detailed. Yet when you bring this to the awareness of those who preach "everything in the koran only" they subjectively select this matter as not important as "spiritual guidance", contradicting themselves to what they testify. IF our dress is not important or in the context of "spiritual development" WHY WOULD GOD EVEN MENTION IT! Although everthing in the Koran is for guidance only (2185), people who preach "koran in everything only" would subjectively select what is guidance, "spiritual guidance" , koranic guidance, and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."
O.K. Allah says His Book is fully detailed or, if you like, just detailed, it doesn't matter, because when Allah details something, it is is done to it's fullest extent, otherwise, He would not be Allah.
Now, whatever Allah has said in Al-Quran, relative to dress, is sufficient/fully detailed, othewrwise, He would be contradicting Himself.
Do you accept this ayat
29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.
If you accept that ayat, then there is no possible means for you to even think, much less, outright state that Allah's Quran is not fully detailed/He hasn't detailed something fully in His Quran.
Don't you understand that, dress, also comes under the rubic of guidance?? Everything mentioned in Al-Quran is for our guidance.
Given that, Allah speaks of dress and how one is to dress, if one disobeys that, then, that individual is subject to Allah's wrath, because he/she has disregarded His law/commandment. With this is in mind then, how is it possible that Allah did not fully detail the dress code in Al-Quran? If it weren't fully detailed, then how could Allah hold in account an individual who didn't adhere to it?
So, tell me, if Allah, The Lord of the Worlds, didn't fully detail the dress code...then who did? and where are the full details for the dress code to be found then?
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SHM
Okay....Did GOD use "except" here? If he didnt, which he didnt, what does "everything" mean. The verse clearly states an "explanations for everything." So "everything" here means "everything" or "somethings" or just "religions things"? If everything mean EVERYTHING, please show me the ayats which shows how to make a islamic website to preach islam to everyone, or ho to develop a car, or how to read arabic., or how to define salat.
1689] The day will come when we will raise from every community a witness from among them, and bring you as the witness of these people. We have revealed to you this book to provide explanations for everything, and guidance, and mercy, and good news for the submitters.
Please noted it says "EVERYTHING AND GUIDANCE", isolating the two elements as something different and not similar.
If everything mean EVERYTHING, please show me the ayats which shows how to make a islamic website to preach islam to everyone, or ho to develop a car, or how to read arabic., or how to define salat.
Tell you what, seeing how you reject my explanations, what do you think Allah meant/means by...everything? Don't you think he foresaw people like you , who, would ask such questions or, do you think you've caught Allah in a mistake and He's wrong? Apparently, according to your logic, Allah is in error when he used the term everything, because He didn't include the details on how to build a stealth bomber or website.
So, what does everything mean then?
i will use the same words you used. If the koran is only the guidance for "obtaining our goal in life" or "towards the end"..........
For you to make this claim, you must then provide the ayat where Allah says..."toward this end" or "fully-detail for obtaining our life goal", otherwise, you are saying something, again, which Allah did not say Himself.
I have no idea what you are asking here, please rephrase.
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SHM
You have-not shown any proof that can testify to your subjective context of "fully-detailed". Why? All the verses I have read that states "fully-detailed" DOESNOT say
"only in religious issues" nor those it say
"only to obtain prardise" nor does it say
"only in our life objective" nor does it say
"only in for our guidance/growth/development"
nor does it say "only establishing of Islamic jurisprudence."
THE KORAN doesnot have these assertions by you.Then how do you reconcile your above position with the following ayat
29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.
If Al-Quran, is not fully detailed, then ayat 2951 is a lie, period.
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I have no idea what you are asking here, please rephrase.
nor do you have an idea on what i present. We human tend to think differently, so i willl ask questions to get us on the same page.
O.K. Allah says His Book is fully detailed or, if you like, just detailed, it doesn't matter, because when Allah details something, it is is done to it's fullest extent, otherwise, He would not be Allah.
(1) Did GOd say that, well show me the ayat?
Given that, Allah speaks of dress and how one is to dress, if one disobeys that, then, that individual is subject to Allah's wrath, because he/she has disregarded His law/commandment. With this is in mind then, how is it possible that Allah did not fully detail the dress code in Al-Quran? If it weren't fully detailed, then how could Allah hold in account an individual who didn't adhere to it?
You are abusing the verses yet you are completely unaware.
(2) If i ask you, "what are you wearing" and you answer "clothes" is that fully-detailed?
(3) If a women wears a swiming suit, which covers her chest and has a certain lenghten, if that wrong for her to wear?
(3) If he wears a body suit, is that wrong for her to wear?
(4) What is her judge on modesty and inappropriate attire? Is it the Koran or the society?So, tell me, if Allah, The Lord of the Worlds, didn't fully detail the dress code...then who did? and where are the full details for the dress code to be found then?
(5) What did GOd fully-detailed in dress. He said men should dress modest, yet that is determine by society.
(6) He said women should cover their chest, but if i women just wear a bra, isnt she covering her chest?
(7) Show me in the Koran where i am forbidden to where boxers in public?Tell you what, seeing how you reject my explanations, ....
i rejected your explaination because it was YOUR explaination. You didnt show me one ayat to testify to exactly what you stated. Just like when you wanted me to show you excaty in the koran where it says "ritual" for you to accept it, you didnt show me one ayat where it stated exactly YOUR explaination.
what do you think Allah meant/means by...everything
It defintion is base on the context of the verse.
Don't you think he foresaw people like you , who, would ask such questions
I understand what GOD means when he says "fully-detailed". You have confuse it will "everything exist in the Koran" (5101)
or, do you think you've caught Allah in a mistake and He's wrong?
I have taught you in a mistake, yet you still dont know what it is. sad. This is your mistake, You subjective determine what is the context of "fully-detailed" decriptions in the koran with no auothrity. Did God personall tell you that "fully-detailed" mean what you said it means. NO. But i dont think you will ever understand that.
Allah is in error when he used the term everything, because He didn't include the details on how to build a stealth bomber or website.
GOd cannot make mistake, You have but are completely unaware of it. the context of everything is determine by the verse, not my you. And since you believe everything in the koran is all you need, why are you seeking knowledge outisde the koran. You life should be guided by the koran only, and if any outside influence (scoiety, teacher, language, anything) are laws or sources of you life, then according to you, it is wrong because it is outside the koran.
So, what does everything mean then?
everything mean everything. But God use it in context. however, your delima is that you donot use it in context. If you believe that GOd detail everything, then show me a verse where i can learn how to make a car?
You have-not shown any proof that can testify to your subjective context of "fully-detailed". Why? All the verses I have read that states "fully-detailed" DOESNOT say
"only in religious issues" nor those it say
"only to obtain prardise" nor does it say
"only in our life objective" nor does it say
"only in for our guidance/growth/development"
nor does it say "only establishing of Islamic jurisprudence."
THE KORAN doesnot have these assertions by you.Then how do you reconcile your above position with the following ayat
29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.
If Al-Quran, is not fully detailed, then ayat 2951 is a lie, period.
i am glad you admit that was assertion by you and was never in the koran.
the verse is so simply yet you abuse it out of context, as usually of those you deny. USE IT IN CONEXT. Please. Please remember God reveal a book to mankind, not one ayat you can twist. The verse have context that explain itself.
2951
They said, "If only miracles could come down to him from his Lord!" Say, "All miracles come only from GOD; I am no more than a manifest warner."2951
Is it not enough of a miracle that we sent down to you this book, being recited to them? This is indeed a mercy and a reminder for people who believe.2952
Say, "GOD suffices as a witness between me and you. He knows everything in the heavens and the earth. Surely, those who believe in falsehood and disbelieve in GOD are the real losers."If you read the verse the way the were meant to be read, you learn that God was refering specifically to the claims the pople was asking about in verse 2951. God is basically saying "they want a miralce, but isnt it enough of a miracle that we reveal this book to muhammed." You dont understand that context is so important. You were saying all those stuff that about me "lying" to God yet you are the one who was making great assertion about God and his book, and i was only using it in context.
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SHM
O.K. Allah says His Book is fully detailed or, if you like, just detailed, it doesn't matter, because when Allah details something, it is is done to it's fullest extent, otherwise, He would not be Allah.
(1) Did GOd say that, well show me the ayat?
You've got to be kidding, right? Anyway
- Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
Now, I suppose you're going to say that there is some sort of context for this, eh?, please.
Given that, Allah speaks of dress and how one is to dress, if one disobeys that, then, that individual is subject to Allah's wrath, because he/she has disregarded His law/commandment. With this is in mind then, how is it possible that Allah did not fully detail the dress code in Al-Quran? If it weren't fully detailed, then how could Allah hold in account an individual who didn't adhere to it?
You are abusing the verses yet you are completely unaware.
(2) If i ask you, "what are you wearing" and you answer "clothes" is that fully-detailed?
(3) If a women wears a swiming suit, which covers her chest and has a certain lenghten, if that wrong for her to wear?
(3) If he wears a body suit, is that wrong for her to wear?
(4) What is her judge on modesty and inappropriate attire? Is it the Koran or the society?Look, save the "I'm abusing verses" nonsense, o.k.? You didn't answer the question which I asked, please go back and answer it. I highlighted it in bold so you can focus.
So, tell me, if Allah, The Lord of the Worlds, didn't fully detail the dress code...then who did? and where are the full details for the dress code to be found then?
(5) What did GOd fully-detailed in dress. He said men should dress modest, yet that is determine by society.
(6) He said women should cover their chest, but if i women just wear a bra, isnt she covering her chest?
(7) Show me in the Koran where i am forbidden to where boxers in public?
QuoteWould wearing boxer shorts in public violate Allah's rule of modesty? If so, then you have all the details, now don't you? If you are still in doubt, then consider these ayats
Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.
And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts...
Now, are those ayats fully detailed enough for you? Isn't modesty, bottomline, about covering up one's private areas except to those whom it lawful to expose them to ? How each society/individual decides to guard their private parts is up to them just as long as they do it, otherwise, they are accountable to Allah.
i rejected your explaination because it was YOUR explaination. You didnt show me one ayat to testify to exactly what you stated. Just like when you wanted me to show you excaty in the koran where it says "ritual" for you to accept it, you didnt show me one ayat where it stated exactly YOUR explaination.
Oh, you rejected my explanations, despite the fact that, I quoted Al-Quran, I see.
what do you think Allah meant/means by...everything
It defintion is base on the context of the verse.
Fine, then what is the context for the following ayat and what is meant by everything
16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
I understand what GOD means when he says "fully-detailed". You have confuse it will "everything exist in the Koran" (5101
)Really?, then please, tell us, what does Allah mean by everything in ayat 1689?
I
have taught you in a mistake, yet you still dont know what it is. sad. This is your mistake, You subjective determine what is the context of "fully-detailed" decriptions in the koran with no auothrity. Did God personall tell you that "fully-detailed" mean what you said it means. NO. But i dont think you will ever understand that.Yes, Allah, did convey to us what he means by fully detailed
- Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
Main Entry DETAILED marked by abundant detail or by thoroughness in treating small items or parts.
Main Entry ABUNDANT marked by great plenty amply supply plentiful.
Main Entry FULLY in a full manner or degree completly plenty.
What about the above ayat and definitions aren't clear to you now?
As far as catching me in some mistake, well, you indulging in wishful thinking.
GOd cannot make mistake, You have but are completely unaware of it. the context of everything is determine by the verse, not my you.
You're not making any sense at all.
And since you believe everything in the koran is all you need, why are you seeking knowledge outisde the koran. You life should be guided by the koran only, and if any outside influence (scoiety, teacher, language, anything) are laws or sources of you life, then according to you, it is wrong because it is outside the koran
.Exactly, my life is guided by Al-Quran only and alone, what is your source of guidance?
- Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear proofs of guidance and the criterion... in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.
Let me ask you a question. In light of ayat 2185, what is guidance for?
So, what does everything mean then?
everything mean everything. But God use it in context. however, your delima is that you donot use it in context. If you believe that GOd detail everything, then show me a verse where i can learn how to make a car?
If everything means everything, as you assert, then you tell me why there is no mention of how to build a car in Al-Quran?
You continue to speak of context, yet, you don't want to accept the context of how "everything" is being used in Al-Quran, meaning, Al-Quran has everything pertinent for man's guidance, that is the context. What is guidance for?...to save one's soul from Hell, hence, this ayat again
16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
Do you see the context now? In the world to come Al-Quran will be either a witness for you or a witness against you and you will have no excuses on that day, because a Book was given which explained...everything in order to keep you out of Hell. Now, do you understand why the schematics on how to build a car is not detailed in Quran?...it is not pertinent to your getting into Paradise or avoiding Hell.
Then how do you reconcile your above position with the following ayat
29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.
If Al-Quran, is not fully detailed, then ayat 2951 is a lie, period.
i am glad you admit that was assertion by you and was never in the koran.
???? My God, anyway, my assertion is what Allah, is stating in Al-Quran.
the verse is so simply yet you abuse it out of context, as usually of those you deny. USE IT IN CONEXT. Please. Please remember God reveal a book to mankind, not one ayat you can twist. The verse have context that explain itself.
2950 They said, "If only miracles could come down to him from his Lord!" Say, "All miracles come only from GOD; I am no more than a manifest warner."
- Waqaloo lawla onzila AAalayhi
ayatun
min rabbihi qul innama al-ayatu AAinda Allahi wa-innama ana natheerun mubeenun
It is my understanding that, there is no word miracle in 2950 only the words...ayats, verses, if you will.
2952 Say, "GOD suffices as a witness between me and you. He knows everything in the heavens and the earth. Surely, those who believe in falsehood and disbelieve in GOD are the real losers."
If you read the verse the way the were meant to be read, you learn that God was refering specifically to the claims the pople was asking about in verse 2951. God is basically saying "they want a miralce, but isnt it enough of a miracle that we reveal this book to muhammed." You dont understand that context is so important. You were saying all those stuff that about me "lying" to God yet you are the one who was making great assertion about God and his book, and i was only using it in context.
What does..."God is basically saying" mean? Either you know or you don't, but basically means you are not certain.
Please, show me the word miracle in ayat 2950. Regardless, even if miracle is in that ayat and let's for arguement sake that it is, 2951, still poses the rhetorical question from Allah to man, that is, isn't His miracle--Al-Quran, sufficient/enough for them? Isn't Al-Quran sufficient/enough as a sign, that is, as Book of ayats for guidance, for people to obey Allah and follow its contents? Don't you get it? No matter how you look at that 2951, as an ayat, it stands alone and needs no context, because Allah, is speaking about Al-Quran in its totality. The ayat is its own context.
I understand context way better than you ever will.
Please answer my above questions...coherently, please.
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Zenje
According to your logical, you know if you use an arabic dictionary to define koranic words, that is a source of explaination outside the koran right? you are contradicting those verse (6115-114)?
A source for what? Language? The dictionary is not the teacher of the quran, nor is it the guide - God is. I don't look to the dictionary to explain verses. I don't look to the dictionary as a source of law. Which is what those verses is all about.You know what I find amusing SHM?... is that you're fighting against anyone who uses these verses of God, because it doesn't benefit your agenda.
So, if you are learning arabic and ask the techer what salat mean or how to develop the meaning for salat using root words or whatever, you are not using the koran and therefore using an outside source for religious guidance right?
SHM, If I'm learning a language, that's different. If I'm learning the meaning of the verses, only the quran can explain the quran. I don't look to Imams/Bukhari/Khalifa to tell me what's what. I answer for myself.One last thing I'd like say on this thread...
We can study together, if we don't agree on something, it's okay, no problem, if we agree, good! If I'm wrong, God is my judge. It seems to me, SHM, if someone disagrees with you, you take it upon yourself to go on and on and on... give it up man. You're not going to guide me or anyone here. The messenger couldn't guide the ones he loved, can you? You have your opinion, you gave it, move on. I have mine, I said what it is. Are you 100% sure you're right and I'm wrong? roll
Peace and take it easy.
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Would wearing boxer shorts in public violate Allah's rule of modesty? If so, then you have all the details, now don't you? If you are still in doubt, then consider these ayats
Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.
And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts...
Now, are those ayats fully detailed enough for you? Isn't modesty, bottomline, about covering up one's private areas except to those whom it lawful to expose them to ? How each society/individual decides to guard their private parts is up to them just as long as they do it, otherwise, they are accountable to Allah
Doesnt me wearing boxers in public, arnt i gurading my pivartes? So it is lawful to wear boxers in public preist? Is that fully-detailed?
Oh, you rejected my explanations, despite the fact that, I quoted Al-Quran, I see.
what do you think Allah meant/means by...everything
it is your explaination. If is it what GOd saoed, show me the exact verses please.
Fine, then what is the context for the following ayat and what is meant by everything
16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
this verse "everything" in base on the context of the book. please look how GOD, not you, but GOD describe when something or everything is detailed in the Book. (1712)
Stop abusing verses.
Really?, then please, tell us, what does Allah mean by everything in ayat 1689?
the "everything" means "everything" but GOD use it in context. please remember GOd diberlately outlook things. (5101)
Yes, Allah, did convey to us what he means by fully detailed
- Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
this verse have context, that you are baliantl abusing. sad that you will keep doing it too.
Exactly, my life is guided by Al-Quran only and alone, what is your source of guidance?
al koran.
Let me ask you a question. In light of ayat 2185, what is guidance for?
first use the verse in context, then we can talk.
guidance have context. remember everything a human experience is by GOd will to guides us. so everything can be qualify as guidance, but you must use it in context.
If everything means everything, as you assert, then you tell me why there is no mention of how to build a car in Al-Quran?
lol you are not serious. Are you trying to use my argument you cannot defeat. God gaves us what we need. period. if he want to he could have detail how to make a car, but many things were outlook deliberately. (5110)
You continue to speak of context, yet, you don't want to accept the context of how "everything" is being used in Al-Quran, meaning, Al-Quran has everything pertinent for man's guidance, that is the context. What is guidance for?...to save one's soul from Hell, hence, this ayat again
you know this is your explaination again right? this is your subjective reason. If this is true, just show me the exact verse please.
16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
Do you see the context now? In the world to come Al-Quran will be either a witness for you or a witness against you and you will have no excuses on that day, because a Book was given which explained...everything in order to keep you out of Hell. Now, do you understand why the schematics on how to build a car is not detailed in Quran?...it is not pertinent to your getting into Paradise or avoiding Hell.
the verse still says "everything" without any exceptions.
My God, anyway, my assertion is what Allah, is stating in Al-Quran.
will show me the exact verse where he said exactly what you said, and i will shut up.
min rabbihi qul innama al-ayatu AAinda Allahi wa-innama ana natheerun mubeenun
It is my understanding that, there is no word miracle in 2950 only the words...ayats, verses, if you will.
you know dern well ayat can mean miralcle too.
So according to you "intrepretation" the verse reads
And they said "If only verse would come down to him from his Lord!" Say "All verse are with God, and I am but a clear warner."
But isnt Muhammed receieve verse of the koran?!?!? This is idoitic. how can Muhammed with the Koran if he had not verses to warm with?!?!
What does..."God is basically saying" mean? Either you know or you don't, but basically means you are not certain.
basically means "simply stating". I know because unlike you, i read the koran in context and remember GOD deliever it and arranged it for a reason.
Please, show me the word miracle in ayat 2950. Regardless, even if miracle is in that ayat and let's for arguement sake that it is, 2951, still poses the rhetorical question from Allah to man, that is, isn't His miracle--Al-Quran, sufficient/enough for them?
miracle is in that verse and i can prove in the context of the koran, muhammed was ask to provide a miracle many times. Context people.
Isn't Al-Quran sufficient/enough as a sign, that is, as Book of ayats for guidance, for people to obey Allah and follow its contents?
Damn boy...you still dont get it. This statment is abuse. the verse says nothing about this nor was it refering to this. you have abuse it that way. but you still dont get it.
Don't you get it? No matter how you look at that 2951, as an ayat, it stands alone and needs no context, because Allah, is speaking about Al-Quran in its totality. The ayat is its own context.
the verse doesnt stand alone. it is used in context. i explain it WITH THE KORAN yet you still deny. God said the koran being diliever to muhammed was "enough" of a miracle for those who seek one.
I understand context way better than you ever will.
do you want to get into this "no you dont" "yes i do" argument. it child play. If you think you understand the kkoran better then me, yet your understand is not by your own offer but GOD mercy. well....good for you. the user name is arouse you pride or something.
Please answer my above questions...coherently, please.
i now you are giving me orders. Is this order in the Koran, because i dont have to follow it.
So, tell me, if Allah, The Lord of the Worlds, didn't fully detail the dress code...then who did? and where are the full details for the dress code to be found then?
you dont understand what "fully-detailed" means. God gave us the guidance on how to dress righteously. he didnt "fully-detailed" it. it is just the guidelines. Like i said, according to your twisted logical, it is wrong for me to seek help in modest dress outside the Koran since "everything in exist releting to islam/submission is fully-detailed.
like i said, prove to me a women wearing a swiming suit in public is wrong by koran standards. she is covering her chest and modesty is simply cover the pivarte parts by your defintion right?
If it weren't fully detailed, then how could Allah hold in account an individual who didn't adhere to it?
O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of GOD's signs, that they may take heed.
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zenje
the reaons i ask is because yo have "come down on me" because i use all resources to seek and understand on what salat is. however, you and other testify the seeking any kind of resources to undertand what salat is that is outside the koran is wrong.
Yet yo are guilty of this.
A source for what? Language? The dictionary is not the teacher of the quran, nor is it the guide - God is. I don't look to the dictionary to explain verses. I don't look to the dictionary as a source of law. Which is what those verses is all about.
a source of intrepretation. Can you speak arabic zenje. if you cannot, when you see an arabic word in the koran and you dont know the meaning, do you look in a arabic dictionary as a source of intrepretation. is the arabic dictionary the koran? no.
You know what I find amusing SHM?... is that you're fighting against anyone who uses these verses of God, because it doesn't benefit your agenda.
most dont use the verses of GOD, but abuse them. iam just trying to expose people subjective hypocritical agrumentive ways when the issue of salat is raised.
SHM, If I'm learning a language, that's different. If I'm learning the meaning of the verses, only the quran can explain the quran. I don't look to Imams/Bukhari/Khalifa to tell me what's what. I answer for myself.
yes you do. maybe dont look to "bukhari" but you look at the person who publish that dictionary to determine what arabic words means which influence you intrepretation and explaination of the koran. so basically, that is an outside source.
I said what it is. Are you 100% sure you're right and I'm wrong?
not in all issues but there are things you are indeed 100% wrong in. remember the clear way is made clear from the wrong way. not all can be right. roll
*****side question
i notice you tend to have different "emoticons" that i cannot access. is that because you are a moderator? -
Zenje,
We can study together, if we don't agree on something, it's okay, no problem, if we agree, good! If I'm wrong, God is my judge. It seems to me, SHM, if someone disagrees with you, you take it upon yourself to go on and on and on... give it up man. You're not going to guide me or anyone here. The messenger couldn't guide the ones he loved, can you? You have your opinion, you gave it, move on. I have mine, I said what it is. Are you 100% sure you're right and I'm wrong?
Sounds very much like when I dominate a lecture class.Everything is either balck or white to ME.
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SHM
Doesnt me wearing boxers in public, arnt i gurading my pivartes? So it is lawful to wear boxers in public preist? Is that fully-detailed?... like i said, prove to me a women wearing a swiming suit in public is wrong by koran standards. she is covering her chest and modesty is simply cover the pivarte parts by your defintion right?
Would you take your mother or sister out in public with swimming suits on and have everyone leer at them?
the "everything" means "everything" but GOD use it in context. please remember GOd diberlately outlook things. (5101)
If we are going to talk then please be coherent, thanks. What does 5101 have to do with this discussion? Anyway, your response is double talk, please answer the question put to you..what is the context of "everything" in the following ayat?
16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
Quote
Yes, Allah, did convey to us what he means by fully detailed- Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
this verse have context, that you are baliantl abusing. sad that you will keep doing it too.
Show us the abuse; just your saying that isn't meaningful; bring your evidence how I absued the ayat.
Exactly, my life is guided by Al-Quran only and alone, what is your source of guidance?
al koran.
LOL! how can Al-Quran be your source of guidance, when you've clearly stated that it is not fully detailed, despite, Allah's saying that it is?? Let me ask you this...is Al-Quran perfect/without contradiction/error?
Let me ask you a question. In light of ayat 2185, what is guidance for?
first use the verse in context, then we can talk. guidance have context. remember everything a human experience is by GOd will to guides us. so everything can be qualify as guidance, but you must use it in context.
You are the scholar on context and, it is your assertion that, everything is in context, so you tell me what the context is.
If everything means everything, as you assert, then you tell me why there is no mention of how to build a car in Al-Quran?
you are not serious. Are you trying to use my argument you cannot defeat. God gaves us what we need. period. if he want to he could have detail how to make a car, but many things were outlook deliberately. (5110)
Thank you for bearing out the following ayats and proving my point! Yes, Allah, gives us exactly what we need, hence
29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.
- Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
Quote
You continue to speak of context, yet, you don't want to accept the context of how "everything" is being used in Al-Quran, meaning, Al-Quran has everything pertinent for man's guidance, that is the context. What is guidance for?...to save one's soul from Hell, hence, this ayat againyou know this is your explaination again right? this is your subjective reason. If this is true, just show me the exact verse please.
I couldn't find that ayat, but I'm certain you know, because it applies to you during our exchanges..."if they but used their intellect/common sense, they would not go astray"...
You do not use any common sense at all, hence, it why you can say that Al-Quran is not fully detailed, even though, Allah says that it is.
Btw, all you've done in our conversation up to this point, is offer your subjective views, none of which, makes any Quranic sense.
Quote
16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.Do you see the context now? In the world to come Al-Quran will be either a witness for you or a witness against you and you will have no excuses on that day, because a Book was given which explained...everything in order to keep you out of Hell. Now, do you understand why the schematics on how to build a car is not detailed in Quran?...it is not pertinent to your getting into Paradise or avoiding Hell.
the verse still says "everything" without any exceptions.
Well, if it is everything, then, where are the details for building a car? I'm using your arguement, so, if everything means everything, then, where are the details for a car, please answer. You cannot have both ways.
Quote
My God, anyway, my assertion is what Allah, is stating in Al-Quran.will show me the exact verse where he said exactly what you said, and i will shut up.
Quote
min rabbihi qul innama al-ayatu AAinda Allahi wa-innama ana natheerun mubeenunIt is my understanding that, there is no word miracle in 2950 only the words...ayats, verses, if you will.
you know dern well ayat can mean miralcle too.
No, the ayat does not say "miracle", period. LOL! talk about abusing the verses, man, that takes the cake! Although ayah is translated as verse, it actually means "sign" and not miracle.
Quote
Please, show me the word miracle in ayat 2950. Regardless, even if miracle is in that ayat and let's for arguement sake that it is, 2951, still poses the rhetorical question from Allah to man, that is, isn't His miracle--Al-Quran, sufficient/enough for them?miracle is in that verse and i can prove in the context of the koran, muhammed was ask to provide a miracle many times. Context people.
Fine, then show me the word for miracle in that ayat. Anyway, you didn't answer the question
Regardless, even if miracle is in that ayat and let's for arguement sake that it is, 2951, still poses the rhetorical question from Allah to man, that is, isn't His miracle--Al-Quran, sufficient/enough for them?
Quote
Isn't Al-Quran sufficient/enough as a sign, that is, as Book of ayats for guidance, for people to obey Allah and follow its contents?Damn boy...you still dont get it. This statment is abuse. the verse says nothing about this nor was it refering to this. you have abuse it that way. but you still dont get it.
Watch the "boy" stuff, young lady. It is apparent that, whenever you cannot answer my question, you respond with..."this is abuse of statement". Please answer
Regardless, even if miracle is in that ayat and let's for arguement sake that it is, 2951, still poses the rhetorical question from Allah to man, that is, isn't His miracle--Al-Quran, sufficient/enough for them?
Don't you get it? No matter how you look at that 2951, as an ayat, it stands alone and needs no context, because Allah, is speaking about Al-Quran in its totality. The ayat is its own context.
the verse doesnt stand alone. it is used in context. i explain it WITH THE KORAN yet you still deny. God said the koran being diliever to muhammed was "enough" of a miracle for those who seek one.
QuoteFine, what is the context then? Why don't you explain your assertion, rather than constantly charging me with "abusing"?
you dont understand what "fully-detailed" means. God gave us the guidance on how to dress righteously. he didnt "fully-detailed" it. it is just the guidelines. Like i said, according to your twisted logical, it is wrong for me to seek help in modest dress outside the Koran since "everything in exist releting to islam/submission is fully-detailed.
Isn't Allah's guidance...perfect? well, given that it is pefect, then His guidance is fully detailed for His guidance is perfect, how can it not be?
like i said, prove to me a women wearing a swiming suit in public is wrong by koran standards. she is covering her chest and modesty is simply cover the pivarte parts by your defintion right?
Would you take your mother or sister out in public with swimming suits on and have everyone leer at them?
Quote
If it weren't fully detailed, then how could Allah hold in account an individual who didn't adhere to it?O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of GOD's signs, that they may take heed.
like i said, prove to me a women wearing a swiming suit in public is wrong by koran standards. she is covering her chest and modesty is simply cover the pivarte parts by your defintion right?
Like I asked, would you take your mother or you sister out in public with bathing suits on and have eveyone leer at them?
-
Show us the abuse; just your saying that isn't meaningful; bring your evidence how I absued the ayat.
i showed you but you ignored it.
LOL! how can Al-Quran be your source of guidance, when you've clearly stated that it is not fully detailed, despite, Allah's saying that it is?? Let me ask you this...is Al-Quran perfect/without contradiction/error?
Let me ask you a question. In light of ayat 2185, what is guidance for?
thanks for telling me things about myself. you surely know all things roll
I couldn't find that ayat, but I'm certain you know, because it applies to you during our exchanges..."if they but used their intellect/common sense, they would not go astray".
thank you
You do not use any common sense at all, hence, it why you can say that Al-Quran is not fully detailed, even though, Allah says that it is.
surely you do indeed know all thiings. roll
Do you see the context now? In the world to come Al-Quran will be either a witness for you or a witness against you and you will have no excuses on that day.....
i see context. i saw it seen the begining. remember, i was the one arguing context, not you.
Well, if it is everything, then, where are the details for building a car? I'm using your arguement, so, if everything means everything, then, where are the details for a car, please answer. You cannot have both ways.
you have confused yourself.
No, the ayat does not say "miracle", period. LOL! talk about abusing the verses, man, that takes the cake! Although ayah is translated as verse, it actually means "sign" and not miracle.
Ayat has MANY MEANING. ONE IS MIRACLE. Look in any arabic dictionary. (17101)
Fine, then show me the word for miracle in that ayat. Anyway, you didn't answer the question
i did but you translated as sign.
Regardless, even if miracle is in that ayat and let's for arguement sake that it is, 2951, still poses the rhetorical question from Allah to man, that is, isn't His miracle--Al-Quran, sufficient/enough for them?
you are really inconsistent. one time you asking me to show the word miracle, the next you admitt it may have it.
young lady!? lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
ladies dont have penises. you dont even know my gender yet you are making carzy claims about me and "common sense"Don't you get it? No matter how you look at that 2951, as an ayat, it stands alone and needs no context, because Allah, is speaking about Al-Quran in its totality. The ayat is its own context.
it have context. but hey, you simply dont want to accept it. it cools, it is not my life.
Fine, what is the context then? Why don't you explain your assertion, rather than constantly charging me with "abusing"
i explained it, yet you quote me explaintion then ask me to what it is? to you actual read and understand wha you read? I am not going to even retype the context, i will just quote myself.
the verse doesnt stand alone. it is used in context. i explain it WITH THE KORAN yet you still deny. God said the koran being diliever to muhammed was "enough" of a miracle for those who seek one.
Posted Tue Aug 31, 2004 830 pm Post subject
SHMQuote
Doesnt me wearing boxers in public, arnt i gurading my pivartes? So it is lawful to wear boxers in public preist? Is that fully-detailed?... like i said, prove to me a women wearing a swiming suit in public is wrong by koran standards. she is covering her chest and modesty is simply cover the pivarte parts by your defintion right?Would you take your mother or sister out in public with swimming suits on and have everyone leer at them?
Quote
the "everything" means "everything" but GOD use it in context. please remember GOd diberlately outlook things. (5101)If we are going to talk then please be coherent, thanks. What does 5101 have to do with this discussion? Anyway, your response is double talk, please answer the question put to you..what is the context of "everything" in the following ayat?
16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
Quote
Yes, Allah, did convey to us what he means by fully detailed- Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
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this verse have context, that you are baliantl abusing. sad that you will keep doing it too.Show us the abuse; just your saying that isn't meaningful; bring your evidence how I absued the ayat.
Exactly, my life is guided by Al-Quran only and alone, what is your source of guidance?
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al koran.LOL! how can Al-Quran be your source of guidance, when you've clearly stated that it is not fully detailed, despite, Allah's saying that it is?? Let me ask you this...is Al-Quran perfect/without contradiction/error?
Let me ask you a question. In light of ayat 2185, what is guidance for?
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first use the verse in context, then we can talk. guidance have context. remember everything a human experience is by GOd will to guides us. so everything can be qualify as guidance, but you must use it in context.You are the scholar on context and, it is your assertion that, everything is in context, so you tell me what the context is.
If everything means everything, as you assert, then you tell me why there is no mention of how to build a car in Al-Quran?
you are not serious. Are you trying to use my argument you cannot defeat. God gaves us what we need. period. if he want to he could have detail how to make a car, but many things were outlook deliberately. (5110)
Thank you for bearing out the following ayats and proving my point! Yes, Allah, gives us exactly what we need, hence
29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.
- Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
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You continue to speak of context, yet, you don't want to accept the context of how "everything" is being used in Al-Quran, meaning, Al-Quran has everything pertinent for man's guidance, that is the context. What is guidance for?...to save one's soul from Hell, hence, this ayat againQuote
you know this is your explaination again right? this is your subjective reason. If this is true, just show me the exact verse please.I couldn't find that ayat, but I'm certain you know, because it applies to you during our exchanges..."if they but used their intellect/common sense, they would not go astray"...
You do not use any common sense at all, hence, it why you can say that Al-Quran is not fully detailed, even though, Allah says that it is.
Btw, all you've done in our conversation up to this point, is offer your subjective views, none of which, makes any Quranic sense.
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16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.Do you see the context now? In the world to come Al-Quran will be either a witness for you or a witness against you and you will have no excuses on that day, because a Book was given which explained...everything in order to keep you out of Hell. Now, do you understand why the schematics on how to build a car is not detailed in Quran?...it is not pertinent to your getting into Paradise or avoiding Hell.
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the verse still says "everything" without any exceptions.Well, if it is everything, then, where are the details for building a car? I'm using your arguement, so, if everything means everything, then, where are the details for a car, please answer. You cannot have both ways.
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My God, anyway, my assertion is what Allah, is stating in Al-Quran.will show me the exact verse where he said exactly what you said, and i will shut up.
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min rabbihi qul innama al-ayatu AAinda Allahi wa-innama ana natheerun mubeenunIt is my understanding that, there is no word miracle in 2950 only the words...ayats, verses, if you will.
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you know dern well ayat can mean miralcle too.No, the ayat does not say "miracle", period. LOL! talk about abusing the verses, man, that takes the cake! Although ayah is translated as verse, it actually means "sign" and not miracle.
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Please, show me the word miracle in ayat 2950. Regardless, even if miracle is in that ayat and let's for arguement sake that it is, 2951, still poses the rhetorical question from Allah to man, that is, isn't His miracle--Al-Quran, sufficient/enough for them?Quote
miracle is in that verse and i can prove in the context of the koran, muhammed was ask to provide a miracle many times. Context people.Fine, then show me the word for miracle in that ayat. Anyway, you didn't answer the question
Regardless, even if miracle is in that ayat and let's for arguement sake that it is, 2951, still poses the rhetorical question from Allah to man, that is, isn't His miracle--Al-Quran, sufficient/enough for them?
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Isn't Al-Quran sufficient/enough as a sign, that is, as Book of ayats for guidance, for people to obey Allah and follow its contents?Quote
Damn boy...you still dont get it. This statment is abuse. the verse says nothing about this nor was it refering to this. you have abuse it that way. but you still dont get it.Watch the "boy" stuff, young lady. It is apparent that, whenever you cannot answer my question, you respond with..."this is abuse of statement". Please answer
Regardless, even if miracle is in that ayat and let's for arguement sake that it is, 2951, still poses the rhetorical question from Allah to man, that is, isn't His miracle--Al-Quran, sufficient/enough for them?
Don't you get it? No matter how you look at that 2951, as an ayat, it stands alone and needs no context, because Allah, is speaking about Al-Quran in its totality. The ayat is its own context.
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the verse doesnt stand alone. it is used in context. i explain it WITH THE KORAN yet you still deny. God said the koran being diliever to muhammed was "enough" of a miracle for those who seek one.
QuoteFine, what is the context then? Why don't you explain your assertion, rather than constantly charging me with "abusing"?
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you dont understand what "fully-detailed" means. God gave us the guidance on how to dress righteously. he didnt "fully-detailed" it. it is just the guidelines. Like i said, according to your twisted logical, it is wrong for me to seek help in modest dress outside the Koran since "everything in exist releting to islam/submission is fully-detailed.Isn't Allah's guidance...perfect? well, given that it is pefect, then His guidance is fully detailed for His guidance is perfect, how can it not be?
WHAT?!? you know there is a different between fully-detail and evrething right? that is what you are confused. here is a simply example, a senario to teach you
Jon "What do you have on Mary?"
Mary "Clothes"this is not a "fully detailed" anwers. However
Jon "What do you have on Mary?"
Mary "i have on a red pants, shoes, hat, hijab, blue socks, and my webbing ring"This is a "fully-detialed" anwer. You brother dont understand the different between "fully-detailed" and everything.
like i said, prove to me a women wearing a swiming suit in public is wrong by koran standards. she is covering her chest and modesty is simply cover the pivarte parts by your defintion right?
Would you take your mother or sister out in public with swimming suits on and have everyone leer at them?
and this is how you prove to me a women can where a swiming uist in public by Koran standards? lol
Like I asked, would you take your mother or you sister out in public with bathing suits on and have eveyone leer at them?
lol
You canot be serious. i ask you to prove by koran standars, not me or my familyLook brother. this is over, i undertand your point of ivew but dont agree with it. there is into context in the koran however many verses cannot stand alone like you claim. God has indeed fully-detailed the koran but fully-detailed doesnt mean everything. there is a difference. verse 16.89 has context to the purpose of the koran, but in that verse says there is not mention of "fully-detailed". There is a different.
Most of the verse you quote are subjectively used by you. i have explained it several times, but you are commited to abusing them out of context.
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SHM
You didn't answer the following questions
- Would you take your mother or sister out in public with swimming suits on and have everyone leer at them?
You canot be serious. i ask you to prove by koran standars, not me or my family
I'm very serious and well you know it, hence, your above ridiculous response. Anyway, I will rephrase
Is it Quranic to take your mother or sister out in public with swimming suits on and have everyone leer at them?
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How can Al-Quran be your source of guidance, when you've clearly stated that it is not fully detailed, despite, Allah's saying that it is??
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Is Al-Quran perfect/without contradiction/error?
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Let me ask you a question. In light of ayat 2185, what is guidance for?
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Well, if it is everything, then, where are the details for building a car? I'm using your arguement, so, if everything means everything, then, where are the details for a car, please answer. You cannot have both ways.
you have confused yourself.
You are confessing here.
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No matter how you look at that 2951, as an ayat, it stands alone and needs no context, because Allah, is speaking about Al-Quran in its totality. The ayat is its own context. If I'm incorrect, then show us the context, thanks.
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Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
Again, you will notice that, Allah doesn't some of the Quran is fully detailed and other parts of it are not...He says the Quran, that is, in its totality, is fully detailed.
WHAT?!? you know there is a different between fully-detail and evrething right? that is what you are confused. here is a simply example, a senario to teach you
Jon "What do you have on Mary?"
Mary "Clothes"this is not a "fully detailed" anwers. However
Jon "What do you have on Mary?"
Mary "i have on a red pants, shoes, hat, hijab, blue socks, and my webbing ring"This is a "fully-detialed" anwer. You brother dont understand the different between "fully-detailed" and everything.
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Hmmm...so, unless Allah tells us exactly what to wear, per your above example, then we cannot meet His requirement for proper dress, is this your position?
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In other words, Allah, regarding the dress code, simply gave us an incomplete/non-thorough answer regarding the dress code, is this your position as well?
Allah says, per ayats 6114 and 1689 that, His Quran is fully detailed. You, on the other hand, contradict Him and say that, Al-Quran is not fully detailed. Well, either Allah is wron and you're right or you're right and Allah is wrong, however, you both cannot be right.
Most of the verse you quote are subjectively used by you. i have explained it several times, but you are commited to abusing them out of context.
Please, can this nonsense and respond in an educated and responsible fashion using Quranic proof texts. No more of your "impressions of things".
Main Entry DETAILED marked by abundant detail or by thoroughness in treating small items or parts.
Main Entry ABUNDANT marked by great plenty amply supply plentiful.
Main Entry FULLY in a full manner or degree completly plenty.
Look brother. this is over, i undertand your point of ivew but dont agree with it. there is into context in the koran however many verses cannot stand alone like you claim. God has indeed fully-detailed the koran but fully-detailed doesnt mean everything. there is a difference. verse 16.89 has context to the purpose of the koran, but in that verse says there is not mention of "fully-detailed". There is a different
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What then, is the purpose of Al-Quran for which it can be defined as being...fully detailed?
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Isn't Allah's guidance...perfect? well, given that it is pefect, then His guidance is fully detailed for His guidance is perfect? Do you accept this or not? Yes or no?
I don't blame you for wanting this to be over, because your responses, thus far anyway, are nothing less than inadequate in proving your assertions.
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I couldn't find that ayat, but I'm certain you know, because it applies to you during our exchanges..."if they but used their intellect/common sense, they would not go astray".thank you
Don't thank me yet. Here is the ayat I was referring to. I hope you, at some point, embrace it...fully.
6710 And they will say, "Had we but listened or possessed sense, we should not have been found among the inmates of the blazing Fire".