Proof Qur'an-alone is Error
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Peace,
Respect.Amigo, how to perform the salaat is in The Qur'an.
That is why I said to read and keep in mind 6114.
Regarding giving charity 2215, 219 and 6141.
Brother, I'm sure if you really read The Qur'an carefully and ponder over what Allah SWT is saying, you'll understand what needs to be understood, with all due Respect, bro.Peace.
dont bother Alen, Quran is not enough for him, it's the minimum, there is so much more blah blah, he is happy following his god and gaining his points as he thinks, Quran is just not enough.
28.49 Say "Then bring ye a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than either of them, that I may follow it! (do), if ye are truthful!"
Obviously they made up a 'better guide' than Torah and Quran after the prophet died.
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You assume that I did not because I dont understand the things the way you do.
Quran aloners decided to not follow hadeeth, they reject all of it as they think it is not valuable because they think it is not scientificly accurate and corrupted and all.
I know -and it's obvious that it is- that somefalse hadeeth have been added to the sahih and true ones but I leave the benefice of the doubt and make my mind exactely like you.
I'd rather rely on the description of the salaat from the hadeeth wich details it very well and because it include what is said in the Quran, I have the firm conviction that these details that we have are the right ones. You can think otherwise but rejecting all hadeeth is wrong.
what does this say?
77.50
and this 39.23 -
dont bother Alen, Quran is not enough for him, it's the minimum, there is so much more blah blah, he is happy following his god and gaining his points as he thinks, Quran is just not enough.
28.49 Say "Then bring ye a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than either of them, that I may follow it! (do), if ye are truthful!"
Obviously they made up a 'better guide' than Torah and Quran after the prophet died.
I follow the book don't worry. It is and still the first reference but I do interpret it according to Muhammad PBUH.
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dont bother Alen, Quran is not enough for him, it's the minimum, there is so much more blah blah, he is happy following his god and gaining his points as he thinks, Quran is just not enough.
28.49 Say "Then bring ye a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than either of them, that I may follow it! (do), if ye are truthful!"
Obviously they made up a 'better guide' than Torah and Quran after the prophet died.
This makes me sad ....
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Peace "Badr",
I follow the book don't worry. It is and still the first reference but I do interpret it according to Muhammad PBUH.
JK- You are not interpreting it according to Muhammad because there is no evidence hadith are not from Muhammad and more importnatly Allah said in the Quran that He would explain the Quran. The Quran explains itself and since it was revealed through Muhammad as a messenger we could technically say that Muhammad as a messenger explained former Quranic verses with later Quranic verses. BUT THIS IS THE BEST that we can say. Anything more would be ridiculous.
Y.Ali 7516-19 Move not thy tongue concerning the (Qur'an) to make haste therewith. It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated) Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear)
GOD Bless! -
He was Sunni muslim.
The following is Malcolm X's (al-Hajj, Malik al-Shabazz) letter to his assistants in Harlem during his pilgrimage to Makkah in April of 1964
Never have I witnessed such sincere hospitality and overwhelming spirit of true brotherhood as is practiced by people of all colors and races here in this ancient holy land, the home of Abraham, Muhammad and all the other Prophets of the holy scriptures. For the past week, I have been utterly speechless and spellbound by the graciousness I see displayed all around me by people of all colors.
I have been blessed to visit the holy city of Makkah; I have made my seven circuits around the Ka'aba, led by a young Mutawwaf (guide) named Muhammad; I drank water from the well of the Zamzam. I ran seven times back and forth between the hills of mount al-Safa and al-Marwa. I have prayed in the ancient city of Mina, and I have prayed on mount Arafat.
There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the white and non-white.
America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white - but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color.
You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to rearrange much of my thought-patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions. This was not too difficult for me. Despite my firm convictions, I have always been a man who tries to face facts, and to accept the reality of life as new experience and new knowledge unfolds it. I have always kept an open mind, which is necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of intelligent search for truth.
During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass, and slept on the same rug - while praying to the same God - with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white. And in the words and in the deeds of the white Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan and Ghana.
We were truly all the same (brothers) - because their belief in one God had removed the white from their minds, the white from their behavior, and the white from their attitude.
I could see from this, that perhaps if white Americans could accept the Oneness of God, then perhaps, too, they could accept in reality the Oneness of Man - and cease to measure, and hinder, and harm others in terms of their ?differences? in color.
With racism plaguing America like an incurable cancer, the so-called ?Christian? white American heart should be more receptive to a proven solution to such a destructive problem. Perhaps it could be in time to save America from imminent disaster - the same destruction brought upon Germany by racism that eventually destroyed the Germans themselves.
Each hour here in the holy land enables me to have greater spiritual insights into what is happening in America between black and white. The American Negro never can be blamed for his racial animosities - he is only reacting to four hundred years of the conscious racism of the American whites. But as racism leads America up the suicide path, I do believe, from the experiences that I have had with them, that the whites of the younger generation, in the colleges and universities, will see the handwriting on the walls and many of them will turn to the spiritual path of truth - the only way left to America to ward off the disaster that racism inevitably must lead to.
Never have I been so highly honored. Never have I been made to feel more humble and unworthy. Who would believe the blessings that have been heaped upon an American Negro? A few nights ago, a man who would be called in America a white man, a United Nations diplomat, an ambassador, a companion of kings, gave me his hotel suite, his bed. Never would I have even thought of dreaming that I would ever be a recipient of such honors - honors that in America would be bestowed upon a King - not a Negro.
All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of all the worlds.
Sincerely,
al-Hajj, Malik al-Shabazz (Malcolm X)But it may be a false letter as we don't have scientifical and archeological proofs that he really wrote it and sent it ;D
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Peace "Badr",
JK- You are not interpreting it according to Muhammad because there is no evidence hadith are not from Muhammad and more importnatly Allah said in the Quran that He would explain the Quran. The Quran explains itself and since it was revealed through Muhammad as a messenger we could technically say that Muhammad as a messenger explained former Quranic verses with later Quranic verses. BUT THIS IS THE BEST that we can say. Anything more would be ridiculous.
Y.Ali 7516-19 Move not thy tongue concerning the (Qur'an) to make haste therewith. It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated) Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear)
GOD Bless!Contrary at what you may think, we have proofs, we have alot of ahadith that comes from the prophet Muhammad that enterpret alot of verse from the Quran.
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Peace "Badr",
Contrary at what you may think, we have proofs, we have alot of ahadith that comes from the prophet Muhammad that enterpret alot of verse from the Quran.
JK- You have ZERO evidence(other than your own defintion of evidence which any group can do and then claim it has evidence), not to mention proof which is exclusively reserved for mathematics, that any of the hadith besides Quran come from Muhammad. Also when the Quran says that Muhammad is not to explain the Quran by himself how can you say hadith says otherwise. Are now hadith taking preference even over the Quran? GOD Bless!
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Contrary at what you may think, we have proofs, we have alot of ahadith that comes from the prophet Muhammad that enterpret alot of verse from the Quran.
None of which you can provide as you have no knowledge of ilm ul rijal. You were taught that the science of hadith is so thorough, so precise and so scientific that it eradicates 99.9% of falsehood. This, of course, is untrue. Any investigation by you will inevitably end up in your scholars shutting you out, convincing you that you need a 10 year alim course before you can begin to understand the subject. You will never know why matn criticism stopped after the compilation of the 6 "sahih" collections. You will never objectively question why it took 200 years before these books were compiled. You will ignore the fact that the rashidun caliphs refused to compile them, despite the growing availability of writing tools.
You pay lip service to the verses that say the quran is fully detailed. On the one hand you affirm it with your tongue but disbelieve it with your heart when you want rituals presented to you on a plate provided by hadith. It disturbs your heart to think Allah wants you to decide your own zakat rate based on your disposable income without giving you a fixed number. It's disturbing to think that there may not be a set number of rakats for salat, and that Allah requires sincerity and not numbers. It is worrying that there is no mention of the messiah returning to destroy all other religions and return you to glory. To put it bluntly, the quran is simply not enough.
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so?
he was a sunni muslim for less than 10 months until his assassination. He had been with NOI many years and when he left he was approached by sunni to learn Islam. If that man had lived longer he would have seen the holes in hadith as he did in NOI. What he saw at Hajj was NOT what is in hadith and more than likely he was still looking into Quran with new unracist eyes than ever being introduced to hadith.
I still don't get what Malcolm X has to do with any of this conversation though.
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he was a sunni muslim for less than 10 months until his assassination. He had been with NOI many years and when he left he was approached by sunni to learn Islam. If that man had lived longer he would have seen the holes in hadith as he did in NOI. What he saw at Hajj was NOT what is in hadith and more than likely he was still looking into Quran with new unracist eyes than ever being introduced to hadith.
this so relevant!
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yeah little group the 12 persons active in this forum. Of course !
Alhamdulillah... We are a little group group
1140
1140 So, when Our command came and the chamber erupted. We said Carry in it a pair of two from each, and your family; except those against whom the word has been issued; and whoever has believed. But those who believed with him were few.3413
3413 They made for him what he desired of enclosures, and images and pools of deep reservoirs, and heavy pots. O family of David, work to give thanks. Only a few of My servants are thankful.3824
3824 He said He has wronged you by asking to combine your lamb with his lambs. And many who mix their properties take advantage of one another, except those who believe and do good works, and these are very few. And David guessed that We had tested him, so he sought forgiveness from his Lord, and fell down kneeling, and repented.5610
5611
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5613
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5610 And those foremost, who will be from those foremost?
5611 They will be the ones who are brought near.
5612 In gardens of bliss.
5613 Many from the first generations.
5614 And a few from the later generations.May Allah guide us all towards the Correct Path.
Mohammed M. Khan -
I have a huuuuuge comfort and feel so blessed and favoured to belong to the Truth.
How can I be bothered by 12 people who talk on the net, is that a real bind, yall don't even know yourselves in person.
You don't even imagine what are the true binds ; It is to pray shoulder to shoulder with your muslim brother, to have chills when the imam recites Quran. To feel your sins washed when you make ablution, to feel the honor to walk on the steps on the Prophet Muhammad PBUH when eating with your right hand, when you say Bism'illah before you put the food on your mouth, to recite the exact same duaa as the Rasool when you finish to pray and to enjoy the connection between you and your creator at the end of the night when you wake up and do a nafila for Him in a time where He promised to fulfill are your duaas.
The bind is when your break the sawn at noon with your family around the table in the holy month, when you say "assalaam aleikum" to every body, those you know and those you don't know because the prophet said to spread salaam, to say "may god bless you" to who sneezes. To immune your children with the duaa the prophet made for his grand children Hassan & Hussein etc...
The bind is when you consult your bank account at the end of the year and can't wait to give the zakkat to someone you know is in need.
I already posted my objections, the points you have against hadeeth are ridiculous and your little group didnt shake my belief for a second because I'm on the same path than the best of mankind ;Muhammad Rasool Allah. May God give you this sensation one day and take off the veil you have over the eyes.Now I have Salaat Al Isha, I'll BRB.
There are 12 people who bother about you. What do you want, a headcount?
All your binds are physical actions. I am sorry to say but you remind me of a kid who wants to make his daddy proud by scoring a lot of goals in football. Plus you mix christian, western and middle east cultures into how you interpret islam. Do you even know where term "God bless you" comes from???
Anyways, you didnt understand what I meant with "bind". My question was if you are so bothered about QA because we are able to bind without rituals, I mean we all have the same concept of the true path but some of us wear hijab, some not. Some of us pray 3 times, some 5. Some of us fast a month, some ten days etc. etc.And I am not talking about shaking your belief, why would I want to do that? What I would like to see (like Wakas) are 5 thoroughly thought through objections against following the Quran alone. I am sure you cannot find one because otherwise you would have taken the challenge. I asked you before but you didnt want to answer. Without arguing about how to interpret the Quran or to follow hadith or not, let's see a debate about why traditional islam is the only islam.