A Quranic community? - a few questions first...

SarahY

Most of those living in a Western country are not really limited in terms of practising their beliefs HOWEVER in certain situations there will be exceptions, and so it is more of a matter of "to what degree/extent" would it be better in such a community.

Ok it depends on the individual. Does living in such a community give one peace of mind? do they want their children to grow up in such a community with quranic values without the preconceived traditional ideas or maybe they don?t mind and possibly this community has those people but at least quranic values would be held in priority

Individually it differs, I think most people wouldn?t think the degree is high but that?s just an assumption? I?d feel better ?cos I?d stress less and as you say it?s an ideal environment so it?s better for me.

Re group/community law

You later mentioned that new members would have to abide by the community's law, thus by your own admission, there would be some sort of law. Thus it is possible and perhaps likely there would be a law you disagreed with, hence my question.

Well as a community you work together right? It?s not about following the leaders in the group. If I disagreed with a law i?d need to work out why and possibly take it up with the community if I was so serious about it.

That would be impressive, but actions speak louder than words P If I did half those hours, I'd be happy.

You?re right actions are louder than words. Thing is, it's only to ?establish/help build? the community, that wouldn?t be realistic all the time.

People are bound with their families/friends/study not many wanna relocate. Like personally currently I wouldn?t relocate till I finished studies and had some income. Why because my degree is internationally accepted it has a benefit for me. Income because it would be unwise to just go somewhere with no resources. Besides what help could I bring if I have no home/income? I?d be a burden.

Nothing magically happens you?re right. Though those like minded communities forming, I can only see it as starting something small. like not even having laws. more like people with like minds coming together and sharing views and practices together. They don?t have people in their community as a mayor or independent political group to make big law changes because they don?t have the numbers. Sure, the community doesn?t need to be just believers polytheist could be there too.

RA786

peace all,

The topic of a "Quranic community" tends to come up regularly here, generates discussion etc. and when it does, I often feel a little puzzled as to the comments/reaction. So I want to investigate some underlying things to see if I can understand it better. If I were to ask those in favour of such a community some questions, I would start with

What is your primary motive for wanting to join/form such a community?
What do you feel you can do in such a community that you cant do in the community where you live at the moment?
Let's say you join such a community, but they implement practices/law that you do not agree with, what would you do?
How far would you be willing to go to protect such a community if it existed?
If forming such a community will take time/effort, do you think the same time/effort could be better utilised, or is this not really a concern?
Is there any criteria you would stipulate for a community member to have in order for them to join?

I may think of some more questions later.

Even if you are not for such a community, feel free to answer theoretically if you wish, or if you are not for or against, you can still answer.

Islam is the Balance of Self and Community. It doesnt seem right being locked away in a small house in the middle of Nowhere Alone, Working on yourself like an avid Sufi, Because ....what good was it? You did not do anything for the cause of Humanity. You spent your entire life working on yourself.

And it is not good to Be fully Obsessed with the Dunya, wile not working at all on yourself.
A True "Islamic" Community, as Described in the Quran is One that hold the balance of Self and Community. I would want to Join this place, because It will be where I can Focus on my Community Goals and Ambitions, wile still having time for my own personal works goals and ambitions. (The Quran gives us that right)
Unfortunately, Living in the West, it is ALL about Dunya/Community 100% or Self %...no middle Ground like a "True Islamic Society".

2.I will be able to Practice my Religion Freely. With Like-minded individuals. People will Now be more Understanding when I say "I have to take a break to go do Salat." and People will also understand when I say "I dont believe in that religious doctrine".
I will be able to Live My Islamic way that I cant do here in America, and Cant do in Saudi Arabia Either.
(and everyone else too)

3.If I did not Like or Agree with their Law, Because I feel I am Right...I will debate with them to change it. If they Convince me that I was Wrong, I will Admit my faults and remain living there. If I am right but they wont change it...I'll ask myself...Is it "Really" that important to me...If it is I'll Move, and If it isnt I'll compromise and Stay.

4.Allah Says Fear Nothing But Him. If The Leaders Will Stand By my side in Battle to Defend the Homeland and Children/Wives...I too will fight to the death to defend my deen with every ounce of blood and atom in my body as humanly possible.

5.I think Time is being wasted each day that a community is not formed.
It must be a Collective thing with Masses of people and a General Consensus among the masses.
1st a General Agreement on What the Quran Even Means. Some people Cant even Agree on a single Ayat.
Education is Key, once that is done, Establishing is next.
Time is wasting...The Evil Elite are all ready 90% close to conquering the entire world while we are on this website debating whether Alcohol is Prohibited or should simply be avoided in large quantities. '( brickwall

Do not Force Others to side with your view, rather invite and debate them in the best of manners....
They must follow the Quran as the main law of the land, and not be excessive.

I know it sounds hypocritical, but I cant STAND Obnoxious people who Purposely feel so bad about themselves that they just have to be excessive in certain aspects.

Like the Girl who says "Hey, It says I ONLY need to cover my Breasts and Lengthen my Garment"...."So Ill be fully naked...except ill put a little Nipple Cover on my nipple, and wear a little G string..."
"So technically, I am Covering My Breasts and TechnicallyI am covering my Private part."

or another example...

"The Quran says Freedom of Religion huh...."...."hummmmm so my religion is Nazi-Zombie satanism, where I go around screaming obscenities." "TechnicallyI am not "Killing anyone" nor am I "Naked in public", So therefore I am allowed to do that".

It sucks living with people like that in your country/Commmunity. I dont know if that Answers any questions Lol but I just had to get that off my chest. brickwall laugh police

Omeiza

This is not a matter of choice - Believers live or struggle to live as a community. See Q1828 It is human nature.

Magnus

salaam alaykum all. Thanks brother Wakas for directing me here, thread resurrection God willing.

One of my primary motives would be to escape the man-made materialism, and turn back to nature, and natural ways of living. Because the all the chemicals, poisons and all the man-made stuff don't last. But natural stuff from nature, like for example hydrogen is far more effective as a energy, and can be recycled and does not pollute the earth.

?fasad? is certainly something we must strive to avoid. God has given us fantastic tools inside the system, and we shouldn't break it simply for comfort. As for hydrogen, that's still ?what if-technology? at this point. As a practical man (in sha Allah) I like to think more in terms of water, wind and solar power, battery banks, biofuels, recycling and so forth.

While the concept of a Quranic community is amiable, it is not practical.

It is certainly not an easy or trivial thing, and without God's help we don't have a chance of succeeding. I believe God will help us when we help ourselves. In sha Allah we can form a settled Quranic community somewhere in this world and see what happens. I can't tell you that you're wrong until I can prove it, and the only way to prove it is by doing it, God permitting.

Wakas

I haven't given the "Quranic community" concept much thought (as I am working to a different plan) but IF it were to take place, the above sounds much more practical, e.g. use a country's existing infrastructure, carve a niche, improve upon things, help and support each other etc. I personally have a very strong preference for practicality.

I totally agree here. Practical is the only way. Assuming God gives us someplace to settle, where ever that place is and what conditions and possibilities are present there will necessarily shape what the best solutions to a host of issues are. Sub-arctic wilderness and tropical sub-urbanism present entirely different practical realities. Can we trade with the ?outside? to mutual advantage? Can we farm, forage or fish? Speculation is useless, but in the end practicality must always be kept in mind, whatever the challenge is.

I agree that working together is crucial, but I do not believe we have to be physically present together to do great things.

One of the main reasons I started this thread was that I didn't understand how people thought by forming/joining such a community it would magically allow them to do the things mentioned, when in reality, they can do these things where they are. So my thinking was there must be other (perhaps deeper) reasons why people want this community and I think I know why. It is because people want to belong, it is because people want to be among their own, where they feel at home, they want to be happy, they want to feel secure, they want to feel free, to have peace, to become everything they ever dreamed of, they long for justice/truth/righteousness/love and they feel in such an environment, it will allow them to have these things.

Is this understandable? Yes, perfectly, but I cant help but think of the saying "Think global, act local."

It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness is it not? So, who is lighting candles where they are?

I look at this differently. I think we need to light that candle by building a righteous community. Then and only then can we show people what the quran decrees, instead of talk about it. I can't preach what I don't practice, and I find it difficult to practice fully where I live now.

A community like this would be a very local and modest, at least at first, but representing a global and timeless idea, God willing. You say that people can collaborate without being physically near each other. This is true, but I find that face to face interaction is so much more rewarding and conductive to sharing certain ideas, especially when dealing with other believers. It is an amazing thing to communicate instantly all over the globe, and believers should network on the internet. Great things are happening, not least in the scholarly realm, but internet activism needs a corresponding movement in physical life. Both can exist simultaneously, and both can constribute in spreading islam in complementary ways.
You see a lot of negatives. I share some of your concerns, but I also recognize how unobstructed love for God can bring out amazing things in people. The small community I live with now is absolutely amazing in it's generosity, hospitaly and spirit of sharing and collaborating. We all want to contribute, but some, or perhaps even most of us feel instictly that something is fundamentally wrong

As for belonging, or the deeper motivations, I think it's a matter of intentions. I could use my modest skills in construction working for some company with capitalistic motives or I could help build a mosque where God alone is worshipped. Surely the latter would be better, don't you agree? From a purely self-centered perspective I think I could be a productive and appreciated member of a Quranic community because I'm something of a generalist. In the western society specialism is in many ways the key to success, and a jack of all trades is a master at none. I imagine any freshly started community would provide lots of opportunity for me to work in a way I felt was constructive, for islam and for the believers. Is this egoism and arrogance or thirsting for righteousness? Only God knows, and I pray my motives are pure.

You see a lot of negatives. I share some of your concerns, but I also recognize how unobstructed love for God can bring out amazing things in people. The small community I live with now is absolutely amazing in it's generosity, hospitaly and spirit of sharing and collaborating. We all want to contribute, but some, or perhaps even most of us feel instictly that something is fundamentally wrong with how modern western city life is lived. We feel that we are forced to live by societal norms and rules that are counter-islamic.

As for commitment level, I would like to go all out. I get tired like everyone else, but I like to work hard if I believe in what I'm working for. I would be willing to emigrate to wherever if thats where other brothers and sisters were going to do something together. God willing.

Wakas

peace Magnus,

Thanks for the reply.

...or I could help build a mosque where God alone is worshipped. Surely the latter would be better, don't you agree?

No. I'm not really a fan of such buildings unless they are definitely needed.

I agree with your sentiment however.

If a mosque costs 100K to build for example, then if we imagine a pay-per-click campaign on google at ?0.05 per click, directing people to Quran based islam websites, that would be 2 million clicks. If we assume 0.5% "convert" to Quran based islam, that would be 10 000 people.

I should point out I personally do not care about "converting" people to Quran based islam, all I care about is people making informed/educated choices.

Magnus

No. I'm not really a fan of such buildings unless they are definitely needed.

salaam.

I was thinking of a hypothetical scenario, useless though it may be. Assume God has led 10-100 believers to a settling place where there are no existing houses.
First comes the construction of a work camp. Think tents and shacks, hastily erected an hopefully temporary buildings - a kitchen, hygiene facilities, storage and sleeping quarters. Next comes more permanent buildings, perhaps out of whatever materials are locally available. I think such a budding community could gain a lot by building a masjid relatively early on, before other less important structures that could be build later. If you have nothing permanent yet, I think a masjid would be "definitely needed".
sorry for the derail, I know you suggested a separate thread for practical matters.

Alen

peace all,

The topic of a "Quranic community" tends to come up regularly here, generates discussion etc. and when it does, I often feel a little puzzled as to the comments/reaction. So I want to investigate some underlying things to see if I can understand it better. If I were to ask those in favour of such a community some questions, I would start with

What is your primary motive for wanting to join/form such a community?
What do you feel you can do in such a community that you cant do in the community where you live at the moment?
Let's say you join such a community, but they implement practices/law that you do not agree with, what would you do?
How far would you be willing to go to protect such a community if it existed?
If forming such a community will take time/effort, do you think the same time/effort could be better utilised, or is this not really a concern?
Is there any criteria you would stipulate for a community member to have in order for them to join?

I may think of some more questions later.

Even if you are not for such a community, feel free to answer theoretically if you wish, or if you are not for or against, you can still answer.

Salaam.

Here's a thought I had for a really long while why simply not create such a community out of the community one already exists in? Just a suggestion ....

Peace.

Magnus

Salaam.

why simply not create such a community out of the community one already exists in? Just a suggestion ....

Peace.

God willing we might get that opportunity. It would certainly make many things easier. It might also might force too much compromise - I don't think my country will democratically elect a comfortable parliamentary majority of believers that could start to make sweeping reforms based on quranic law, if you get my drift.

Magnus

What do you feel you can do in such a community that you cant do in the community where you live at the moment?

God willing
-live in the same area with more believers than I currently do.
-live closer to the believers, preferably within walking distance. Our current weekly congregation relies on cars, buses and trains.
-walk down main street and greet everyone I meet with "salaam alaykum".
-walk down main street without being exposed to all the poisons that are present in the city, both mind pollution like advertising and body poisons like diesel smoke.
-work hard to support a system that is based on God's truth, being able to avoid participating in and thus support a system based on lies, greed and deceit.
-network and collaborate with people in my immediate surroundings, knowing they are believers like me, and knowing that their hearts are also full of love, knowing that deep down we all want the same things for ourselves and for each other.

Alen

God willing we might get that opportunity. It would certainly make many things easier. It might also might force too much compromise - I don't think my country will democratically elect a comfortable parliamentary majority of believers that could start to make sweeping reforms based on quranic law, if you get my drift.

Salaam.
Respectfully.

Slowly, Truth shall prevail.
Besides, you and I strive for The AfterLife, The reality, God willing, yes?
Let's just show few people how the society would look, if we implemented 2215, 219 and 6141 in UK or USA.

I see this I see the end of chaos, corruption and the end of awful recession.
No more poverty and the gap between the rich and the poor would be smaller, I think by more then 25%, God knows BEST.

Islamic Bank could make a step forward, God willing.
If only we had the majority accepting Qur'an without any other books and truly living according to The Qur'an, God willing, then yes, I see this country becoming truly a first Islamic country, God willing.

May God Bless us all.
Peace.

Alen

God willing
-live in the same area with more believers than I currently do.
-live closer to the believers, preferably within walking distance. Our current weekly congregation relies on cars, buses and trains.
-walk down main street and greet everyone I meet with "salaam alaykum".
-walk down main street without being exposed to all the poisons that are present in the city, both mind pollution like advertising and body poisons like diesel smoke.
-work hard to support a system that is based on God's truth, being able to avoid participating in and thus support a system based on lies, greed and deceit.
-network and collaborate with people in my immediate surroundings, knowing they are believers like me, and knowing that their hearts are also full of love, knowing that deep down we all want the same things for ourselves and for each other.

Salaam,
respectfully.

I love this description and I support it, Thank God and therefore I would love to do anything to make it a reality, God willing, I have already stated on the forum long time ago several plans but I think it got forgotten.

Peace.

Magnus

salaam Alen.

You know how sometimes you "randomly" open the Quran looking for a clue, and your eyes immediately fall on a relevant ayat?
There's obviously no real equivalence, but something similar happened the other night with a map book. Liberia in west Africa is where my eyes landed. I'm not saying i received Guidance, or that Liberia is where we are going, but as a thought experiment it is rather interesting.

Rather than imagining a scenario where we try to stay in the good graces of a strong central power, we can imagine a situation where a collaborating government gives us the freedom to mind our own affairs without extra-Quranic interference, and to live in the best possible harmony with our neighbors, striving to improve their lives as well as our own.

We must always remember 248. We must always invite to the Truth.