Quraanites or whatever...

Prince

Salaam Shirin,

I have written an explanation of this if you'd like to read it

http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/47/1/

Welcome Shirin. Look forward to your participation on this forum.

Abdun that was an interesting article you've typed. I've read about the Pineal Gland (Third Eye) before and how you tie it in with meditation and scientific explanation is very very interesting.

Check you inbox.

PEACE

loxbox13

So true ! like someone from this site said in some thread ; they think he came, delivered and died, that's all

I don't understand what do u mean by what u said !!! what r we supposed to do ? he came, gave the greatest book in history to mankind , perfect guide, and he died , now what ? what are we supposed to do ? study the book he gave us or worship him against his will ?
I think you're taking it wrong, Prophet Mohamed is one of the greatest men in history, he was blessed, beloved by allah, as allah loves all prophets , he built a state, did well, succeded is his mission, those with him too, they were great , and they all died, they're at peace, so what r we gonna say when we die ? what did we do ? or u gonna say prophet mohamed did everything, we're not supposed to do anything, he's gonna intercede so it's cool ....
U want to follow prophet Mohamed ? Than follow what he followed, i am sure he never heard of bukhari and moslem and nasaii etc.... he delivered the quran, to all mankind, he taught it to his people, set the example ofwhat can be accomplised by the quran, so why don't we take his as an exemple and follow the quran ? what's wrong with that ? I am 100% sure that prophet Mohamed is against all the praising that they do in his name in the mosques , prophet mohamed will tell u praise allah and no one else, I don't think that prophet mohamed tells prople praise me as much as u can ! never, he only say to the people praise your lord as he is doing
Now he's dead, in peace, in the hearafter , it will be another story between prophet mohamed and those who worship him, he's gonna be the first who's gonna ask allah for justice against these blasphemous people, didn't u read the verse , when he says God my people have thft this quran ?

U feel so much love for prophete Mohamed, fine, but all is the one who is supposed to be loved the most . can u do that? as long as u can't,, than u have a problem in your heart
Love Allah Brother, Just as Prophet Mohamed did, follow the quran, allah loves u ,
Didn't u that the quran is a scrambled biography of prophet mohamed ? the book is set without the chronology of the prophet in purpose by allah, so we read the life of the prophet without really realising it , the life of prophet mohamed, the true one, is in the quran and not in the hadiths by persians, they don't know prophet mohamed more than allah

loxbox13

Now Im sure you are not ashtray any more ;D

No , i believe the quran is the only way, the whole mission of prophet mohamed was to make people follow the book of god, now i believe i am one of hs people, as u and others here, now i know i follow abraham and moses too, and miriam and luqman , it feels better , thanks to people here

loxbox13

Really ?

"Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect."

This is more than clear, are you going to twist it again to make it suit your theories ?

Also, when you make shahada (la ilaha illa allah, mohammed rasool allah) you witness that Muhammad is THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH not his son and not God himself like christians do (Chrisitians and jews admit that theres no God but God too so you make the statement to admit that you follow islam as brought but Muhammad the messenger of God).

Also You witness that Muhammad is THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH not his son and not God himself like christians do.

See? the prophet also make salat on believers

See? Allah also make salah on sabereen

See? Allah and the angels also make salah on the believers just as the do the prophet

See what does it mean salah of angels and allah ? angels invoke for maghfirah, and allah gave Rahma

Now allah ordered the believers to make salah on the prophet just as we understand from other verse, but there's someting, new, " Salimou tasleema " let's see what does it mean and why we can't say sallah alayhi wa sallam

Here u go, salimou tasleema means total surrendre, and u agree that allah doesn't submit to anyone, for he is Allah

Maybe u can say peace be upon him is more correct

Meteora

Salaams and hellos.

I am new here though I'm lurking in the forums for weeks already. I found some very nice and educational stuff in here, which helped me to widen up my knowledge, alhamdulillah ). I came across this forums while looking for "anti hadith" texts, since I started to doubt them not long time ago. I was sunni Muslim btw. While looking for cons and pros of hadith I found much more "evidence" contra them and it was kind of easy for me to "convert" to this new view of Islam (new for me at least).

Now, after my "conversion" or enlightenment, how I like to call it, I got impression that some of the so called Quraanites give so little credit to Prophet Muhammad saws and I was wondering why. I'm not sure about that so I would like to hear from you guys why is that some of you call him a mere human when he obviously was not (same with the rest of the messengers).

Thanks in advance for your replies and sorry for my bad English, I'm not a native speaker.

Shirin.

The only thing making Muhammad more than a "mere human" is that he stuck to the teachings inside the Quran. He would be no different than me or you if we put in the same amount of effort studying and living my the Quran besides of course the fact God decided to reveal the Quran to him.

Sunni's think Muhammad, will intercede on their behalf on the day of Judgement when Muhammad directly claims inside the Quran he doesn't know what his fate is, that everything he ever uttered was revelation from God, that he is was given more than other messengers and is the best messenger (lol), that he is going to have the highest spot in heaven, that he wants us to visit his grave for afterlife points and follow what religious leaders will come after him say. They worship the dude without either admitting or knowing it, the latter being sad.

-Edit- You know what I just realized after reading the above? Replace Muhammad with Jesus and this would still be correct. You just don't have muslims going around saying Muhammad is the son of God. Like it matters.

Jafar

I also wanted to ask, how you people pray? Please someone answer me, I really want to know. Thanks.

You don't know how to communicate to your own Creator?
The question is pretty much the same as "How you talk to your own mother?"

We're here pay no attention to the 'technicality' of praying
There are million ways of 'praying'...
Feel free to pray as you like.. the sunni's way, shiite's way, christians ways, catholics way, judaism way, buddhist way, your own way etc.. etc.. etc..

And God knows the content of your prayer even before you say it..
(The above was a loose quote from Jesus)

Salam / Peace

Meteora

Sunni's, please tell me something. If "salat" means prayer, then what's "dua'"?

IIRC, the closest English word to salat is bond and it's basically a good, strong relationship with God, and what better way to do this then doing what you believe is moral and just/following his words only?

But never mind that, because the hadith books don't give sufficient details on the "salat". Some other part of the religion fully defines the traditional method so now you'd have to argue God supports Quran + Hadith + something else which you and I know is wrong.

-M

Badr

Sunni's, please tell me something. If "salat" means prayer, then what's "dua'"?

IIRC, the closest English word to salat is bond and it's basically a good, strong relationship with God, and what better way to do this then doing what you believe is moral and just/following his words only?

But never mind that, because the hadith books don't give sufficient details on the "salat". Some other part of the religion fully defines the traditional method so now you'd have to argue God supports Quran + Hadith + something else which you and I know is wrong.

-M

Duaa in 338 (it is translated as prayer in english but it is not the same, a prayer contains duaa tho)

Alen

Duaa in 338 (it is translated as prayer in english but it is not the same, a prayer contains duaa tho)

And prayer is very, very-well described in The Qur'an, bro.

mmkhan

Salaam and hi,

Salaams and hellos.

I am new here though I'm lurking in the forums for weeks already. I found some very nice and educational stuff in here, which helped me to widen up my knowledge, alhamdulillah . I came across this forums while looking for "anti hadith" texts, since I started to doubt them not long time ago. I was sunni Muslim btw. While looking for cons and pros of hadith I found much more "evidence" contra them and it was kind of easy for me to "convert" to this new view of Islam (new for me at least).

Now, after my "conversion" or enlightenment, how I like to call it, I got impression that some of the so called Quraanites give so little credit to Prophet Muhammad saws and I was wondering why. I'm not sure about that so I would like to hear from you guys why is that some of you call him a mere human when he obviously was not (same with the rest of the messengers).

Thanks in advance for your replies and sorry for my bad English, I'm not a native speaker.

Shirin.

Welcome to the forum welcome

There is no doubt that all the Prophets and Messengers are human, but the position of Prophet and Messenger they got make them superior among us . As

492
492 O you who believe, do not raise your voices above the voice of the prophet, nor shall you speak loudly to him as you would speak loudly to each other, lest your works become nullified while you do not perceive.

493
493 Surely, those who lower their voices with the messenger of Allah, they are the ones whose hearts have been tested by Allah for righteousness. They have deserved forgiveness and a great recompense.

494
494 Surely, those who call on you from behind the lodgings, most of them do not comprehend.

345
346
347
348
349

345 And the angels said O Mary, Allah gives you glad tidings of a word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary. Honorable in this world and in the Hereafter, and from among those who are made close.
346 And he will speak to the people from the cradle and to middle age, and is from among the upright.
347 She said My Lord, how can I have a son when no human being has been with me? He said It is thus that Allah creates what He wills, when He decrees a command, He merely says to it Be, and it is.
348 And He teaches him the Book and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel.
349 And as a messenger to the Children of Israel I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; that I create for you from clay the form of a bird, then I blow into it and it becomes a bird with the permission of Allah, and I heal the blind and the lepers, and give life to the dead with the permission of Allah, and I prophesize for you what you shall eat and what to store in your homes. In that is a sign for you if you are believers.

17101
17101 And We had given Moses nine clear signs. So ask the Children of Israel, when he came to them, then Pharaoh said I think that you Moses are bewitched!

And the list goes on..... But

2136
2136 Say We believe in Allah and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus, and what was given to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make a distinction between any of them and to Him we submit.

2285
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in Allah, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers; and they said We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny

4152
4152 And those who believe in Allah and His messengers (all) and do not make a distinction between any of them, We will give them their recompense. And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

InshaAllah, this may help you by Allah's grace.

May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan

Meteora

Exactly. God hears your prayer, not your salat, which should be your daily connection with God not a 5 times a day ritual thing.

Badr

And prayer is very, very-well described in The Qur'an, bro.

Wrong ! You and the other "quranites" didnt even agreed about 2, 3 or 5 prayers.

afridi220

Wrong ! You and the other "quranites" didnt even agreed about 2, 3 or 5 prayers.

Ok 5-3-2=1 do you agree now !

unknownuser

Wrong ! You and the other "quranites" didnt even agreed about 2, 3 or 5 prayers.

Consensus does not matter. Truth does.

The only consensus required is that all collectively work to ascertain what actually is the truth, putting their ego aside and quelling the innate fear we all have when it is demonstrated that long held beliefs of ours passed down from parents are false and thus demolished.

Alen

Wrong ! You and the other "quranites" didnt even agreed about 2, 3 or 5 prayers.

As salamu alaykum,
with all due Respect.

Can you locate all five of them in The Qur'an and please provide verses so that I can do research properly and not rely on human's view? Thanks and God Bless ya.

Peace.

Meteora

-Edit-

harris

As salamu alaykum,
with all due Respect.

Can you locate all five of them in The Qur'an and please provide verses so that I can do research properly and not rely on human's view? Thanks and God Bless ya.

Peace.

Salaam Alen,
Peace. Respect to you.

All 5 salat prayers are indeed mentioned in the Holy Quran.

(4103) ?Observe the ritual prayers; indeed the ritual prayer has been decreed upon believers at specific times.

The Dawn prayer
(891) By the Dawn !
(11114) And observe the ritual prayer at both extremities of the daylight (referring to the Dawn and Sunset)?
(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate the praise(s) of your Lord before sunrise?
The Noon prayer
(245 ? Before the Dawn prayer, when you put away your clothes in the Midday, and after the Night prayer?
(301 All praise is due to Him in the heavens and the earth In the evening as well as when you reach Midday (when the sun starts to decline at zenith).
(177 Observe the ritual prayer from the decline of the sun (at Noon when the sun starts declining from its zenith) until the darkness of the night ?
The Afternoon prayer
(1031) By the Afternoon !
(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun (Dawn) and before its disappearance (Afternoon)?
(5039) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before sunset (primarily Afternoon, but also Noon prayer).
The Afternoon prayer is mentioned by name
(223 Preserve strictly the ritual prayers, as well as the middle prayer, and stand up before God with humility.

The ?Middle? prayer is the Afternoon prayer, when the course of sun reaches the ?middle? between Noon and Sunset. The ?Middle? prayer is also the middle prayer of all Five daily prayers in Islam (Dawn, Noon, Afternoon, Sunset, Night).

The Sunset prayer
Sunset means visual disappearance of the sun until the apparition of stable darkness at the end of twilight.
(921) And the night (layl) as it is spreading. ( = imperfect tense action in process = there is still light in the sky).
(11114) And observe the ritual prayer at both extremities of the daylight?
(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun (= Dawn prayer) and before its disappearance (Afternoon, and Noon prayers), as well as from the (first) hours of the night (= Sunset/Night prayers), and celebrate (the praise of your Lord) at the extremities (regular plural = three or more extremities) of the daylight, that you may be content.

The limit between the Afternoon and Sunset prayers is ?the (complete) disappearance of the sun?. Once the sun has completely disappeared visually in the sky at sea level, it is time for the Sunset prayer.

The Night prayer
The ?Night prayer? (Salaat al 'Ichaa) is mentioned by name in 2458.

Hope tat was of help.

http//19.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8348
http//www.chillyoislamyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/salat-just-do-it.jpg

Peace.

Bigmo

Salaam Alen,
Peace. Respect to you.

All 5 salat prayers are indeed mentioned in the Holy Quran.

(4103) ?Observe the ritual prayers; indeed the ritual prayer has been decreed upon believers at specific times.

The Dawn prayer
(891) By the Dawn !
(11114) And observe the ritual prayer at both extremities of the daylight (referring to the Dawn and Sunset)?
(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate the praise(s) of your Lord before sunrise?
The Noon prayer
(245 ? Before the Dawn prayer, when you put away your clothes in the Midday, and after the Night prayer?
(301 All praise is due to Him in the heavens and the earth In the evening as well as when you reach Midday (when the sun starts to decline at zenith).
(177 Observe the ritual prayer from the decline of the sun (at Noon when the sun starts declining from its zenith) until the darkness of the night ?
The Afternoon prayer
(1031) By the Afternoon !
(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun (Dawn) and before its disappearance (Afternoon)?
(5039) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate (O Muhammad) the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before sunset (primarily Afternoon, but also Noon prayer).
The Afternoon prayer is mentioned by name
(223 Preserve strictly the ritual prayers, as well as the middle prayer, and stand up before God with humility.

The ?Middle? prayer is the Afternoon prayer, when the course of sun reaches the ?middle? between Noon and Sunset. The ?Middle? prayer is also the middle prayer of all Five daily prayers in Islam (Dawn, Noon, Afternoon, Sunset, Night).

The Sunset prayer
Sunset means visual disappearance of the sun until the apparition of stable darkness at the end of twilight.
(921) And the night (layl) as it is spreading. ( = imperfect tense action in process = there is still light in the sky).
(11114) And observe the ritual prayer at both extremities of the daylight?
(20130) So be patient regarding what they say, and celebrate the praise(s) of your Lord before the rising of the sun (= Dawn prayer) and before its disappearance (Afternoon, and Noon prayers), as well as from the (first) hours of the night (= Sunset/Night prayers), and celebrate (the praise of your Lord) at the extremities (regular plural = three or more extremities) of the daylight, that you may be content.

The limit between the Afternoon and Sunset prayers is ?the (complete) disappearance of the sun?. Once the sun has completely disappeared visually in the sky at sea level, it is time for the Sunset prayer.

The Night prayer
The ?Night prayer? (Salaat al 'Ichaa) is mentioned by name in 2458.

Hope tat was of help.

http//19.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8348
http//www.chillyoislamyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/salat-just-do-it.jpg

Peace.

There is nothing wrong with praying five times a day. Many Quranist do. But it is not a must from a Quranic view point at least. The reason why some people here seem like they are not too into Muhammad is because

Muslims have placed divine like figure status for Muhammad and Quranist don't and so they seem like they are demoting him.
Many here realize that the Muhammad brand has been hijacked and used by traditionalist to create a religious autocracy so they suspicious of agendas.
Most people here see Muhammad the same way as Moses or Abraham or Saleh. For many Muslims, Muhammad is treated differently from the others.

You can't be a Quranist and not think highly of its messenger. The Quran speaks highly of Muhammad and Muhammad suffered and sacrificed a lot for the Quran to be in our hands. He paid in blood and money and tears and sweat.

Ask yourself how you view Lot and Shuaib and Noah. Thats how they see Muhammad. No difference. But no Quranist can look down on the Quran's messenger. After all if God entrusted Muhammad with being the deliverer of the Quran to his people, then God must have had a high opinion of him. Its not the kind of job God gives to anyone.

harris

There is nothing wrong with praying five times a day. Many Quranist do. But it is not a must from a Quranic view point at least. The reason why some people here seem like they are not too into Muhammad is because

Muslims have placed divine like figure status for Muhammad and Quranist don't and so they seem like they are demoting him.
Many here realize that the Muhammad brand has been hijacked and used by traditionalist to create a religious autocracy so they suspicious of agendas.
Most people here see Muhammad the same way as Moses or Abraham or Saleh. For many Muslims, Muhammad is treated differently from the others.

You can't be a Quranist and not think highly of its messenger. The Quran speaks highly of Muhammad and Muhammad suffered and sacrificed a lot for the Quran to be in our hands. He paid in blood and money and tears and sweat.

Ask yourself how you view Lot and Shuaib and Noah. Thats how they see Muhammad. No difference. But no Quranist can look down on the Quran's messenger. After all if God entrusted Muhammad with being the deliverer of the Quran to his people, then God must have had a high opinion of him. Its not the kind of job God gives to anyone.

Salaam bigmo,
True. Bt the truth still stands. The Quran instructs 5 prayers. If all "Quraan-aloners" could agree with this point, the community of true believers would be strengthened.

In the end, Allah knows best.
Peace.

Emil

I also wanted to ask, how you people pray? Please someone answer me, I really want to know. Thanks.

Hello Shirin and welcome!

I am sorry if you feel that our words make it sound like we think prophet Muhammed is just a dude and not at all "special". Yes, he was a "mere" human but he was an enlightened one. He was also a leader, a politician and a war strategist. Have you ever heard of the Medina charter? You should check it out. I think no "Quranites" think prophet Muhammed was NOT important. I personally feel very much respect towards him, not only for giving us the Quran but for other things as well. Just like I feel respect towards Nelson Mandela, Gandhi, Buddha and Jesus and Abraham. Strange perhaps to put non-religious persons in the same department as religious ones, but that is to highlight what "type" of respect I have for prophet Muhammed.

And when you ask how we pray.....Well there is a never ending debate.....The fact is that once taking hadith out as a source there is not definite answer to how one should pray. You are to prostrate but there is not any information about how to do it exactly. Some people will say I am wrong. Some say right, and that is proof in itself (that we cannot agree) that the HOW to pray is entirely up to you as long as you can "connect" with God. We are all different and we have different ways. I for one is "a nature guy". That is where I go to connect with God. To sit down on a rock in the middle of the forest and be absolutely quiet and still is where I truly find God, or when I am out on the ocean and a school of dolphins decide to jump in front of the bow of the ship gives me such a clear line I can almost hear God speak.

And then the debate about how MANY prayers a day. Well, if you read the bible it says three, and the Quran recognises the bible, does it not?