Salaam Alaikum Everyone.
-
First off, I wish to thank all of those here for creating a forum where one's mind is not imprisoned but we are free to explore a variety of theories in seeking to learn more about the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad (saw). I am new to free-minds but have been interested in many posts and articles from your forum for some time now.
Although now past 50, I began my search to discern fact from fiction after reading the Nag Hammadi library at age 12. It was then that I came to suspect that the notion of Jesus had been mythologized. I aimed to try to discern which events might be supported by multiple historical accounts and archeological evidence. The conclusion reached was that the Prophets must be human, albeit divinely inspired humans. This notion led me to Islam and in 1999, I became a Muslim but have had enormous challenges within my mosque community. I have actively opposed traditionalists for failing to consider historical accounts and archeological findings that imply their theories need to be reexamined.
I independently came to the conclusion that the genuine sites of Qur'anic revelation had to be farther north in the Jordanian / Palestinian area and was very excited to come across references to an article by Lyath that proposes a similar theory, but I have been unable to find the original article, only comments referring to it. It appears that there are some broken links from the older posts of 4-5 years ago.
I understand that many might find such theories threatening but I cannot imagine NOT wanting to know the true account of Prophet Muhammad's (saw) life. I think that the traditional accounts are a revision of the actual history, possibly for political reasons or to make the Prophet's life appear to be more centered within an Arabian locale. I understand that revealing such thoughts so early in my introduction to free-minds may make me not the most welcome member but I wish to be direct about my thoughts and theories. I do hope that the fact that I cannot locate Lyath's original article is not a sign that I came along too late and such considerations are no longer up for discussion. I am grateful to be here as this does appear to be a very open-minded community. I thank you for that. -
...
Welcome
As for your theories, there's analyses that supports mecca to be the land of prophet mohamed, analyse from the quran, and some suggest that he was a palestinian, or from bani israel , and this analysis is refuted by the quran, because he was from Umiyeen, thse who never had a book
theres another analyse from a jewish scholar who sggested that Bani Israel are from East Arabia, and presented Maps with old testament tribes's names that are still exist in the eastern arabia
another say that bani israel are from ethiopia and east arabia altogether
there is too many theories though, so get all the theories ans reasearches, and compare to the quran and u find the true one
in my case, i believe that Bani Israel and Jesus Are from yathrib, new medina, in east arabia , and Jesus was born also in arabia thousands of years ago, way before king david , and his story was copied on jesus of nazareth and created a new religion by paul
and still, thsese are opinions and theories
the most important to me is, even if the prophet was from the north pole, I still follow the quran that he braught lol
welcome again and give your opinions and sources of your research u might enlighten us.
The problem is that history can be manipulated, but geography cannot
peace -
Wa AlaikumAsSalaam welcome to the forum I am also new here it is wonderfull to see brothers and sister coming to learn true submission to God Alone. I look forward to reading all the posts I find I can learn and express opnion again I say welcome from your sister in submission Rose
-
Thank you for your welcome loxbox.
I am not a scholar so have no definitive theory to try to impress upon others, but I think the question of where the revelations occurred is a fascinating question and very much open to speculation. There is a place called Baca at the outskirts of Jerusalem.
And several places in the region that could qualify as Mecca which are close to pilgrimage routes and also known for pagan worship. I agree that geography provides many clues and the region I mentioned is the location of Lot's tomb, and archeological sites thought to be Sodom...also Petra does seems to fit the description of the people of Aad.Some of the earliest battles in Islamic history took place in that region (Mu'tah, Ma'in). One thing that I think very significant is that outside of Islamic traditional accounts the life of Ibrahim took place mostly between Jerusalem and Hebron. Islam is 'The religion of Ibrahim' as that is what Muhammad (saw) called his own religion. Accounts of the life of Ibrahim/Abraham that predate Islam are therefore not insignificant. None of these accounts place him in the Mecca / Yathrib of current day Saudi Arabia. There is no evidence that he ventured so far south other than what the traditionalists have asserted 150-200 years after Prophet Muhammad's death. Also, in the time of Prophet Muhammad, the Arab Ghassanids supporting Rome opposed the Arab Lakhmids supporting the Persian empire. As these empires ceased financial support of their Arab vassals, it is likely that members of both groups would change their allegiance to support the independent Arab Prophet in the region who opposed both the Byzantines and the Persians. These events occurred in the regions of Palestine, Jordan and Syria. I am interested in hearing more as to why you feel so certain that current day Saudi Arabia is the place where Islam had its first breath. I look forward to exploring such questions with those here on the forum.
-
For old articles, try www.archive.org or personal message Layth
Also, Ayman wrote some things on this that you might find interesting http//free-minds.org/ayman
-
Welcome group and peace peace
~Abdul-Hadi
-
Peace JSS and welcome to the forum. Its good to think criticaly. May I ask are you more of a liberal in your interpretation of the Quran or more literal?
Thanks
-
My approach to attempting to interpreting the Qur'an is to utilize a transliterated text that offers Arabic, English and transliteration so I can research if a word might have multiple meanings or may mean something other than what has commonly been assumed. So I first look at the literal translation and try to determine if the literal meaning is conducive to symbolism or not.
I am not opposed to a literal translation if it makes senses within the context of the surah and the surah's place within a historical framework.I am particularly curious as how to translate 'Maqam Ibrahim,' because maqam, in addition to standing place, can also mean 'station' as on a caravan route or 'grave' as in Ibrahim's grave at Macpelah in the area of Hebron. If Layth's theory were correct and I believe Layth offers some solid criteria for consideration, then after circumambulating Kaaba, one goes to the maqam Ibrahim. This could mean from Jerusalem to Hebron area. Considering how important Ibrahim's example is to Prophet Muhammad (saw), it seems very logical to me that after circumambulating the Kaaba, the Prophet would pay his respects to Ibrahim at his maqam (grave).
Also, if we knew more about the areas where the revelation took place, we might choose more accurately among several possibilities in interpretation. If Mecca were in a different place than tradition asserts, this does not destroy the message of the Qur'an at all in my opinion. It only makes us ask further what happened in history that would prompt scholars to place the events in a different location.
I simply try to figure out what may have actually occurred and will consider all possibilities whether literal or metaphorical.
-
Thank you for your welcome loxbox.
The problem is there is too many contradictions between the quran and history, one of them is right, the other is wrong
For example, how can we prouve that jerusalem existed before 2000 years ago ? it existed only in the bible, but not before jesus, actually jesus himself there is no record that he existed except in the scriptures, so we cannot rely on scriptures to verify , we don't have the original torah, we don't have an ancient torah, the quran is older than the torah we have now, so , what about mecca and becca ? why is becca not mecca? because we don't like sectarians? mecca is mentionned in the quran so it does exist , or at least it existed, who can prouve that Abraham was in jerusalem? the only archeological find is sodom wich is in the desert around the dead sea, north arabia, some people say the 1st muslim quibla was jerusalem, i still don't know where did they find it or how did they know, unless they go for hadiths, maybe the first quibla was India , why not? no one can prouve anything, and one more thing, how come they invented a city called mecca ? there is no record of older mecca or another mecca, i believe if mecca isn't in arabia , it has to be on the african side, ethiopia , jerusalem is definitaly ruled out, jerusalem didn't have prophets or mesengers, to me it's an invention of ancien sects, specially romans, well, the more i discuss about this , the more it doesn't make sense, too many theories, and no clear proof , do i gave up, i accept a city called mecca, it's in the quran, and i accept a messenger called mohamed, he's in the quran, other than that, i just read and change my mind evey few weeks, i debate with u now that mecca is in saudi arabia, next month i might tell u mecca is in south africa or who know ! LOL
Peace
