In depth study on Salaat in Quran

unknownuser

Salaam,

9127 (9+1+2+7 = 19) Whenever a sura was revealed, some of them would look at each other as if to say "Does anyone see you?" (as they conspire against the Quran) Then they left. Thus, GOD has diverted their hearts, for they are people who do not comprehend.
7228 (7+2+2+8 = 19) This is to ascertain that they have delivered their Lord's messages. He is fully aware of what they have. He has counted the numbers of all things.

Well done. I had forgotten about that. I think no other of the 114 last verses of any given sura has such a quality.

Pierre

Certainly not first chapter 17 = 8

What you all post as evidence is absurd numerology for the naivest of people.

Here you go, a few more to feed your fitna infatuation with nineteen...

123456789101112131415161718192021222324252627282930313233343536373839404142434445464748495051525354555657
585960616263646566676869707172737475767778798081828384858687888990919293949596979899100
101102103104105106107108109110111112113114115116117118119120121122123124125126127128129
= 19 x...!

91289129 = 19 x 4804691

6619

Yhr problem of scientific verses isn't that it 'll be understood by future generations, the translators if they did translate , we created the heavens and x'ill be expanding
litterally expanding = mouwasiooun , the translators tried to put what they understand, if they took it litterally than it will be understood by the most primitif man, well, i guess it didn't make sense to pitckall and yusuf ali, so they translate what they mean
All scientific verses are understood with the litteral meaning of the language, all of them, there is no guessing or discovering , read all of them in arabic and u qill see
as for prophet mohamed, i believe he knows the relationship of god and men better than any of us, remember? he saw the one who reveals to him the revelation, in the horizon , than came nearer , and he seen him another descent, near the lot tre etc....
none of us can understand this phenomena, so no matter how scientific we'll be, we'll never get a little of what he knew, and most of all, he get the most valuable book to humanity , he understand at least duluk shams better than u
the problem is you're trying to forget about the quran and focus on a digit , like we didn't believe in the quran before the digit 19 , the quran doesn't need a digit for people to believe, my grand fathers if u ask them they'll tell u the quran is the word of god with no doubt, and the generations before , even the worst sectariens tell u that the quran is the word of god, so u really believe that because of digit 19 , people will relise that the quran is the word of god? what about non muslims? u think u present them a digit 19 to believe? they don't care about calculating, people are not willing to calculate for days to proove that 19 is a digit denominator etc... people believe in the message , the content or they don't believe, just as it was exposed by prophet mohamed . u guys even try to contradict the quran and using maths to prouve the 5 prayers? what about the regular average person who don't count like u ? is he supposed to be a follower ? trusting u as people trusted bukhari and all ? ... I mean if u want to belong to a sect, i don't mind, if u want to belong to a person called himself a mesenger , doesn't bother me , but u came here and say these people are hypocrits and all, isn't a work of a messenger, u have no knowlige of the quranic language and u pretends that u studied the quran in debts
I say Duluk Dalw Fi Biir
,
very clear in arabi =
bucket going down in the well

Duluk is used only for a buckt when it's going down,
Find me an arabic sentence that says duluk about somthing coming from high, than i might believe u
For now something coming from high is called Tadali, or hubut , or nuzul , but never duluk, even the word dululk has two word similar, Dulu = bucket and dalak = rubbing
search more and bring prof, u never know, but as long as it is now, i lnow the word duluk in arabic, so , there is a problem, one of us is wrong, and without arrogance, people need proof, concrete proof , not just following, plus u used the verse toudhiroun that has nothing to do with salat , no order of anything in this verse, so look in other verse u might find somthing,

Salaam,

No duluk is not just used for a bucket. Do you see any mention of a bucket in 1778 (just joking here &nbsp.
Duluk means "decline" in general, like the decline of the sun at noon, which is the most common translation in the Arab and Muslim world.
You were right that 'Asr means time. But it also means "afternoon" as well. It is one of those many words that have several meanings.
If you do not agree with it, then why does God tell us to "glorify before sunset" ( , 5039) or "glorify before its disappearance" ( , 20130, meaning the disappearance of the sun) ? I am sorry, but the time period right before sunset is big time the "afternoon". Do you believe that God decreed salaat at specific times (4103) or do you think he outlined specific times to glorify Him just for amusement and it means nothing ?

Reminder In 5039-40, the verse makes it clear that it is a Salaat as we glorify God "at the ends of the prostrations" ( ), so please do not claim that when God tells us to glorify Him, it has nothing to do with a Salaat.

Think about it.

Pierre

loxbox13

You "wise" guys are shunning away from a very important point here. The only chapter in dispute here is chapter 9. No one has ever had any doubts about the integrity of any other part of The Qur'aan. Historically, only the number of verses in chapter 9 has been in question, not any other part of The Qur'aan.

Peace,
Khalil

I like it when u guys don't say the truth, it' not historically, it's in the hadith , why not saying in hadith and say historically ? didn't u know that not only verses 9127 9128 are doubt? the enemies of islam tried to throw doubt on the quran by inventing many stories as to how the quran was collected , the disputes etc... and u guys are falling in the same way rashad khalifa fall, just like the enemies bukhari etc.. did in the past
take your references from the hadith to take off any verse from the quran, as did rashad khalifa
taking verses out because of hadith, praying 5 times because of hadiths , or u just say we found our ancestors praying 5 times ? oh, it came from abraham

1CELOSTNOWFOUND

Peace All

Can someone please tell me what difference the inclusion / exclusion of 9127 & 128 make to the message of the Quran?

Imraan

loxbox13

Peace All

Can someone please tell me what difference the inclusion / exclusion of 9127 & 128 make to the message of the Quran?

Imraan

There is a big difference, if the 9127 9128 are false, than the quran is to be rejected as a whole, because Allah sad in one verse that he'll protect it , and the quran written by prophet mohamed himself includes these 2 verses, who is that gonna say we believe in some of the quran and not believe is some ?

Asana

@loxbox

If you tell to the people you protect your house and somebody asks you how do you protect it, what would be your answer??!!.....I?m asking this question because we?re human and this question comes to our mind??..We all should accept /believe in whatever God says and if God proves it to us that His Book is protected would you have problem with it?......Or are you after the way you want or understand to be protected?

None of you here on this forum can answer what 741-6 mean and what God is telling us there and yet you want tell that if 9128-129 do not belong to the Quran then the whole Quran should be rejected.

BTW how would you know that prophet wrote down those 2 verses?

Asana

1CELOSTNOWFOUND

Peace loxbox,

There is a big difference, if the 9127 9128 are false, than the quran is to be rejected as a whole, because Allah sad in one verse that he'll protect it , and the quran written by prophet mohamed himself includes these 2 verses, who is that gonna say we believe in some of the quran and not believe is some ?

My question was what difference does it make to the message? Is there anything in those verses that contradict the message of the Quran?

Personally, I don't think they should be removed.

Imraan

1CELOSTNOWFOUND

Peace Asana,

What is the big mystery about the meaning of 741-6?

Imraan

Asana

Peace ISELOSTNOWFOUND

Proving through code 19 that those two verses do not belong to the Quran make this huge difference that

1- Code 19 as miracle of the Quran would reject whatever does not belong to it no matter how good it sounds?.In this way God?s promise is fulfilled.

2-The claimant of the Code 19 is true and was a messenger of God.

3-Being Rashad as Messenger of God by bringing divine proof for his messngership brings responsibility to believe in his mission and his message.

4- As God asks us to trust His messenger therefore purified rituals of Islam should be followed as he purified them.

5-Nobody beside God can carry the title of Merciful as He introduced Him to us by it to become god beside God?.In this way Prophet Mohammad is not merciful, meaning having no power to intercede on behalf of those who believe in his intercession that 9128 teaches them.

6-Since Prophet is not merciful as God therefore he?s a human like us and shouldn?t be praised days and nights.

7-Since prophet doesn?t receive those two attributions given by God in 9128 will wipe out from the mind of majority that he is no different to other messengers of God and should not make distinction ,meaning he?s not above other messengers of God as traditionalist Muslims claim by using this verse for their excuse for their violation?.

8-And above that we pass the test by witnessing God?s signs by accepting his messenger and His Message delivered through him.

List is long but Insha-Allah you see the picture now!

And as for 741-6 is that what or who God is referring to in 741 and why cleaning his or its garment in 744 and what is the uncleanness that should be avoid in 745..and why should not confer favour to acquire more in 746 after all this process of cleanliness and avoiding uncleanness.

Asana

JSS

In regard to verses that may not belong originally to the Qur'an. I think the possibility must be considered. Corruption is an aspect of humanity. Ritual is a means that rulers use to control the masses.

Imagine for a minute that Prophet Muhammad's original message was lenient...think "it is a middle way...religion is easy." But after his death, the ruling elites decided that greater ritual and codification were necessary to keep the sprawling empire from revolution. Had the surahs not yet been collected, it would have been easy for the message to be altered. This does not mean that Prophet Muhammad's genuine message is not buried within. I think it may be and therefore it is important to seek to extract it.

Thomas Jefferson felt this way about the bible and sought to find the true teachings of Jesus/Isa within. He said the true words of Jesus shine out as diamonds in a dung hill. He scanned and studied to extract the authentic out of the inauthentic corruption. The result is known as 'The Jefferson Bible," and can be purchased online for those interested.

I have wondered if this has happened to the Qur'an, as abrogation does not make sense to me. If the compassionate message is abrogated by the sword verse than why include the verses claimed abrogated in the final compilation at all.

If you were a ruler seeking to bend the Qur'an to your own agenda you would naturally insert surahs that claim the text is guarded. That would keep those suspicious of your corruption from challenging you.

And getting back to the original point in regard to Salaat, I find the similarity with Zoroastrian ritual interesting and would like to ask other members here who acknowledge that reality, where they think the influence came from. What geographic areas could account for this or do you suppose that Arab Lakhmids who became Hanifs like Muhammad may have contributed to elaborating basic supplications to conform with their former and more formal manner of prayer?

loxbox13

It is not the Quran that is corrupted, for if it is, than allah is a liar and rashad khalifa prouved allah to be a liar who doesn't keep his promise
It is people like rashad khalifa who tried to corrupt the quran, but they failed, that is the main reason why they created hadiths, for if they could corrupt the quran, they don't need hadiths, they just insert whatever they want inside

It is not the quran that is corrupted, it is the people who are corrupted, they believe something and never consider the point that they might be wrong, like khalifa and his followers, they say god promised to purify the quran, and in the quran god is calling the quran as pure pages descended on a messenger KAREEM
the quran is pure, people who have disease in their hearts who try to insert in people's minds that the quran is corrrupted so we all doubt Allah's last revelation

they first tried to insert verses of stoning, they couldn't so they created a verse in a hadith
they try to throw doubt about verses 127 129 , bukhari couldn't succed , but khalifa came from ashes like a phenix to back up hadiths originators to throw doubt again
one think is for sure, the messenger of god brought the quran that is protected by god

Islam is corrupted, hadiths are corrupted, everything could be corrupted because allah didn't promise to protect any of these except the quran
peace

loxbox13