In depth study on Salaat in Quran

loxbox13

In regard to verses that may not belong originally to the Qur'an. I think the possibility must be considered. Corruption is an aspect of humanity. Ritual is a means that rulers use to control the masses.

Imagine for a minute that Prophet Muhammad's original message was lenient...think "it is a middle way...religion is easy." But after his death, the ruling elites decided that greater ritual and codification were necessary to keep the sprawling empire from revolution. Had the surahs not yet been collected, it would have been easy for the message to be altered. This does not mean that Prophet Muhammad's genuine message is not buried within. I think it may be and therefore it is important to seek to extract it.

Thomas Jefferson felt this way about the bible and sought to find the true teachings of Jesus/Isa within. He said the true words of Jesus shine out as diamonds in a dung hill. He scanned and studied to extract the authentic out of the inauthentic corruption. The result is known as 'The Jefferson Bible," and can be purchased online for those interested.

I have wondered if this has happened to the Qur'an, as abrogation does not make sense to me. If the compassionate message is abrogated by the sword verse than why include the verses claimed abrogated in the final compilation at all.

If you were a ruler seeking to bend the Qur'an to your own agenda you would naturally insert surahs that claim the text is guarded. That would keep those suspicious of your corruption from challenging you.

And getting back to the original point in regard to Salaat, I find the similarity with Zoroastrian ritual interesting and would like to ask other members here who acknowledge that reality, where they think the influence came from. What geographic areas could account for this or do you suppose that Arab Lakhmids who became Hanifs like Muhammad may have contributed to elaborating basic supplications to conform with their former and more formal manner of prayer?

I axtually can't find an easier religion than the quran, so easy that it takes u closer to atheists, well, an atheist who believe in allah lol , as for the rulers, it was the persians i believe who instaured the rituals such as the 5 prayers etc... to keep the sheep il line and to take advantage of the people, but we have the quran, anything added is wrong and not considered true, they succede in making people believe that the quran is obscure and cannot be understood escept by a selection of scholars, even the true scholars were always rejected, some people from the 17 the century preached the quran alone, they were called zindik, some indians from the 50s they only follow the quran alone, they call the khawarij and zindik and ignorant people, when i chatted with some of them, they are amazing, most of them high degrees in colleges , so well educated people , so they made me realise that there is something wrong, i myself was debating here , until i found a post about an idian, folloed the post , the name was Akhtar Sherazi, when i read his articles, i couldn't lie to myself, and started to folow quran alone , so no matter what ruler did , they could't change the quran, that is why we are here exchaging ideas, but still, can't trust anyone, not blindlyn some are here to rpouve the messengership of someone, some are here to look for truth, some are here for general culture, everyone has a goal in his life . the truth is still away i believe, right now we're lost, confused, the choc was too hard to bear, it takes time, the quran is simple , life is simple , live it and hold to the book of god , that is what's important

mmkhan

Salaaman bro,

U guys are talking no sense, how come do u think the prophet isn't merciful ?,

4829
4829 Mohammed is the messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against the rejecters, but merciful between themselves. You see them kneeling and prostrating, they seek the blessings and approval of Allah. Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating. Such is their example in the Torah. And their example in the Gospel is like a plant which shoots out and becomes strong and thick and it stands straight on its trunk, pleasing to the farmers. That He may enrage the rejecters with them. God promises those among them who believe and do good works a forgiveness and a great reward.

7151
7151 He said My Lord, forgive me and my brother, and admit us in Your mercy; and you are the Most Merciful of those who show mercy.

9017
9017 Then he has become one of those who have believed, and exhort one another to patience, and exhort one another to mercy.

May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

I axtually

Oh wow...

Why does rashad khalifa pray like zoroastriens ? i see videos, even though he's an egyptian, but didn't understand arabic, he calls OKKT wich means sister and he translate it as descendant, satan temporary god etc... what kind of a messenger is rashad? a messenger cannot be inspired by a liar god

He was far from perfect, just like you and me. It is interesting that Muhammad is not being called out in this forum, while he also made numerous mistakes and wasnt perfect. This is only one of the references

661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

the quran is simple , life is simple , live it and hold to the book of god , that is what's important

That is the exact message of Rashad Khalifa, yet many disregard his call for following The Quran alone, and instead either bash him for it or follow his exact teachings although he had mistakes in them.

loxbox13

Oh wow...

He was far from perfect, just like you and me. It is interesting that Muhammad is not being called out in this forum, while he also made numerous mistakes and wasnt perfect. This is only one of the references

661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

That is the exact message of Rashad Khalifa, yet many disregard his call for following The Quran alone, and instead either bash him for it or follow his exact teachings although he had mistakes in them.

U right, Rashad khalifa is perfect, we have to follow rashad khalifa

I read the quran and I see Only prophet Mohamed calling people to follow Quran alone, I never see Rashad khalfa in the quran escept in his own translation
plus why didn't rashad khalifa come with a book like all messengers ?

We sent aforetime our messengers with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance 5724

Then if they reject thee, so were rejected messengers before thee, who came with clear Signs, and the Scriptures, and the Book of Enlightenment. 3184

And if they reject thee, so did their predecessors, to whom came their messengers with Clear Signs, Scripture and the Book of Enlightenment. 3525

How come all messenger of god came with books except khalifa? I don't listen to u guys anymore because your main point in the religion is to prouve khalifa as messenger, u don't care about the quran , u care about your messenger, khalifa
Prophet mohamed is dead, khalifa is dead, , prophet mohamed has proof in the quran that he is the messenger of god
Rashad khalifa has no proof except his translation and interpretation with the insertion of his name wich made the quranic khalifa the most impure quran that exist , anyway, keep worshipping khalifa, morning and evening

loxbox13

Oh wow...

He was far from perfect, just like you and me. It is interesting that Muhammad is not being called out in this forum, while he also made numerous mistakes and wasnt perfect. This is only one of the references

661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

That is the exact message of Rashad Khalifa, yet many disregard his call for following The Quran alone, and instead either bash him for it or follow his exact teachings although he had mistakes in them.

661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

U call this a mistake ? a fault ? he didn't want to eat something so? allah want us to learn from this wisdom, but u keep looking at is as a fault, anuway, can u bring all the faults o the prophet in the quran that rashad found, just for discution.

Asana

Loxbox

Why does rashad khalifa pray like Zoroastrians ?

How would you know that Zoroastrians were praying like Prophet Abraham but their prayer got corupted? What evidence do you have by making such an accusation?......Please reflect on 1959.

i see videos, even though he's an egyptian, but didn't understand arabic, he calls OKKT wich means sister and he translate it as descendant,

Well you should first prove it to me that Maryam had a brother then I would accept that she was sister of Harun!

Mother of Maryam wanted boy to send him to Monastery but it turn out to be girl. Question here is why she wanted so badly boy?!!335-36

Satan temporary god etc... what kind of a messenger is rashad? a messenger cannot be inspired by a liar god

I believe you should first find out what god means in the Quran then jump to conclusion accusing Rashad or me?Because I never accepted or understood the Khalifa in 230 is Adam even before i come to know about Dr.Khalifa .
I believe that Satan has certain power that no human beings posses it?.Satan can be anywhere as he wish on this earth but human/Adam as Khalifa can not, then the rest is history.

Satan by God?s permission is allowed to be worshiped as god beside Him. Here in the below the verse has all the talking

Did I not covenant with you, O Children of Adam, that you shall not worship the devil? That he is your most ardent enemy?

Satan is god of the disbelievers?.By saying god it doesn?t mean that he?s an entity like God or has power like God?It means he?s a source of worship for some as god beside God,nothing more nothing less?The only who doesn?t study Quran by asking God to be their Teacher accuse Dr.Khalifa for usage of that word.

U guys are talking no sense,
We all have to be merciful, i can be merciful, u can be merciful etc... allah is not a merciful but THE merciful, there is a big difference, we all have to be bountifull, but allah is THE boutifull, we all have to be gracious , because allah is THE gracious, we alla have to be wise, because allah is THE wise

What would you mean by ?The?? God is called Rahim in the Quran without ?Al? too.

God is called Al-Rahman, would you know anybody can be Rahman too if we take away the ?Al? according to your understanding?

As I said before these two attributions of God only befits God to be attribute with them ?? He introduced Him to us with them and no human being posses them.

Your claim for these two verses because prophete mohamed is called mercifull as abraham was also called mercifull

Sorry Abraham was never called merciful?.The word is Halim not Rahim.

is really Bukhari and Tabari style

u talkinfg about sourah 74 as a riddle, interpret it the way u want even though god is talking to mohamed directly in this sourah, and u say he's talking to rashad khalifa, U are the bukhari modern

We submitters never said or claimed that CH 74 referring to Rashad.Please check your facts first because if you don?t then it would be an accusation.
Verses in 741-6 are talking about some thing that has direct link to the rest of the chapters?A profound study would reveal it for you if God wills.

My questions to you are now, what makes you think that you?ve got the true meaning of the verses and message of the Quran in your hands? Why you?re so anxious people listen to you and your finding for prayer for example?

And please remember we all strive to obey God according to our sincerity ? guidance is in Hands of God?He would guides us to the Path we choose so do not put your faith/understanding above faith of the others and give it a doubt that you might be deeply wrong.
Let?s examine our faith by sharing each others? understanding not looking down on others? understanding. All of us already have been stamped by God as believers or disbelivers.The Truth of God should be followed no matter what.

Asana

Asana

Peace progressive

661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

Prophet as human being made/committed mistakes but not as a messenger.

Prophet knew what was Halal or Haram; he only committed sin there by not obeying God and His message.

Prophet as messenger never made mistakes about the message?.he failed to deliver the message or obey it??.it means that he knew the message but failed to deliver it.

If you?d like to say Rashad made mistakes, you should specify which Rashad, as a messenger or as a human beings.

If you?d like to say he as a messenger made mistakes in observing the correct way of Salat, Zakat and Hajj then by all means you?re accusing God that He sent us an astray man as His messenger to lead the prayer ,it means that he deliverd the wrong message,it means that either he misunderstood God's message to deliver it to us or failed to obey God and said it out of his own desire ,which one is?

And if you?d like to say he made mistakes in his translation then again you should know that God sends the messengers with Books to preach?.If he misunderstood the message of the Quran to preach it to us then what?s the point he was sent to preach it to us in first place?What's the point a messenger teach the wrong teaching to us?

I admit that there are grammatical mistakes and some words missed out to be translated or structures of his sentences are not perfect but it doesn?t mean that he misunderstood the message.

If you?d like to find out about those who claim that their understanding is so correct criticizing Rashad in some extend that have taken the lead to issue new way of observing Salat ,Zakat and Hajj then look at the below verse in order to see how bizarre this translation is when it comes to just a simple verse?.I mentioned this to Pierre but he failed to respond?Now it?s your turn .Please look at it and see if you can notice the huge mistake and wrong understanding just over the two words ?.The translation is by Edip&Layth and Monotheist Group copy/paste it too!!

1964 "We are not sent except by the command of your Lord. To Him is our present and our future, and all that is in-between. Your Lord was never to forget."

Asana

6619

661 O prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.

U call this a mistake ? a fault ? he didn't want to eat something so? allah want us to learn from this wisdom, but u keep looking at is as a fault, anuway, can u bring all the faults o the prophet in the quran that rashad found, just for discution.

salaam,

When Muhammad started prohibiting what God has made lawful, I wouldn't call it making a mistake; what I would say is that he made a catastrophic mistake

According to the Quran, inventing false interdictions is the most serious sin in Islam and is tantamount to idol worship, as creating and following false prohibitions is like following satan
16116 You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD will never succeed.
460 Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, then uphold the unjust laws of their idols? They were commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's wish to lead them far astray.

Creating false prohibitions is creating false idols.

There are other verses in the Quran that show that Muhammad made mistakes as well, for instance when he was more afraid of people's judgment that upholding God's laws instead .

3337 Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD. When Zeid was completely through with his wife, we had you marry her, in order to establish the precedent that a man may marry the divorced wife of his adopted son. GOD's commands shall be done.

Same thing when Muhammad rejected the poor blind man (801-10) whose heart was filled with faith in God, and frowned, rejecting him, as he was full of reverence and respect for the rich man instead. It is the same tragic mistakes that we see every day around us, when people are impressed by people with money, degrees, power, even though they are very often unrighteous and dishonnest; but poor people with a good heart, God fearing, they treat them like garbage.

Muhammad was a very imperfect human being, like all of us, like Rashad, and it is why messengers are always rejected, as people who are idol worshipers expect infallible humans to be able to believe in them; they invent lies about messengers claiming they don't make mistakes, as sunnis do for instance.

If Muhammad had not stopped making false prohibitions, he would have gone to hell.

Pierre

loxbox13

salaam,

When Muhammad started prohibiting what God has made lawful, I wouldn't call it making a mistake; what I would say is that he made a catastrophic mistake

According to the Quran, inventing false interdictions is the most serious sin in Islam and is tantamount to idol worship, as creating and following false prohibitions is like following satan
16116 You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD will never succeed.
460 Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, then uphold the unjust laws of their idols? They were commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's wish to lead them far astray.

Creating false prohibitions is creating false idols.

There are other verses in the Quran that show that Muhammad made mistakes as well, for instance when he was more afraid of people's judgment that upholding God's laws instead .

3337 Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD. When Zeid was completely through with his wife, we had you marry her, in order to establish the precedent that a man may marry the divorced wife of his adopted son. GOD's commands shall be done.

Same thing when Muhammad rejected the poor blind man (801-10) whose heart was filled with faith in God, and frowned, rejecting him, as he was full of reverence and respect for the rich man instead. It is the same tragic mistakes that we see every day around us, when people are impressed by people with money, degrees, power, even though they are very often unrighteous and dishonnest; but poor people with a good heart, God fearing, they treat them like garbage.

Muhammad was a very imperfect human being, like all of us, like Rashad, and it is why messengers are always rejected, as people who are idol worshipers expect infallible humans to be able to believe in them; they invent lies about messengers claiming they don't make mistakes, as sunnis do for instance.

If Muhammad had not stopped making false prohibitions, he would have gone to hell.

Pierre

salaam,

When Muhammad started prohibiting what God has made lawful, I wouldn't call it making a mistake; what I would say is that he made a catastrophic mistake

According to the Quran, inventing false interdictions is the most serious sin in Islam and is tantamount to idol worship, as creating and following false prohibitions is like following satan
16116 You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD will never succeed.
460 Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, then uphold the unjust laws of their idols? They were commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's wish to lead them far astray.

Creating false prohibitions is creating false idols.

There are other verses in the Quran that show that Muhammad made mistakes as well, for instance when he was more afraid of people's judgment that upholding God's laws instead .

3337 Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD. When Zeid was completely through with his wife, we had you marry her, in order to establish the precedent that a man may marry the divorced wife of his adopted son. GOD's commands shall be done.

Are u blind or u believe rashad kahalifa as he interpreted it the ways bukhari and tabari did
god talking to the messenger 1st sentence
Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you,
the messenger talking to the 3rd person, in this second sentence, its about this 3rd person not fearing allah, read it again sentence by sentence, don't follow khalifa blindly
"Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD.

who is Zayd? what does zayd in arabic mean? how did khalifa know that zayd is a name and doesn't mean increase? that is so hypocrit of khalifa to learn from hadith and play like he rejected them

Same thing when Muhammad rejected the poor blind man (801-10)
whose heart was filled with faith in God, and frowned, rejecting him, as he was full of reverence and respect for the rich man instead.
how do u know the verse is talking about mohamed, the verse talks about a 3rd person, HE

It is the same tragic mistakes that we see every day around us, when people are impressed by people with money, degrees, power, even though they are very often unrighteous and dishonnest; but poor people with a good heart, God fearing, they treat them like garbage.
So these are the caracter of prophet mohamed, well if this is true, than the whole quran is to be rejected, i don't believe in crooks and whatever they bring, if mohamed was so Evil he's not worth to be followed, maybe khalifa was so pure, he's god after all, well rashad khalifa is worth worshipping, a pure temporary god

Muhammad was a very imperfect human being, like all of us, like Rashad, and it is why messengers are always rejected, as people who are idol worshipers expect infallible humans to be able to believe in them; they invent lies about messengers claiming they don't make mistakes, as sunnis do for instance.
Nope, you're wrong, messengers were chosen, the best of the imperfect people, no one is perfect but still, they're the best of us. or maybe you are a little bit better than prophet mohamed, specially faith in your heart, after all mohamed was an evil man and you're are a god alone person of the rashad khalifa follower. respect

If Muhammad had not stopped making false prohibitions, he would have gone to hell.
After all your statements, maybe he is in hell after all, specially
Prophet mohamed is your enemy, u have to expose him and if u can't u can follow interpretations of liars like khalifa and ibnkathir and bukhari etc.. don't even learn arabic, they do it for u , what do u say about the biggest MOUSHRIK ? rashad khalifa who calls Satan a GOD ? Oh!!! let me answer, god did send moushriks as messengers !

loxbox13

Why do Submitters worship rashad khalifa ? they can't stop talking about him ! try to argue with everybody about him , why is that? why they lie to themselves to cover up the child molester with the mistakes of messengers? why do I have to believe in Khalifa who didn't bring any prouf from god to prouve his messnegership ? why didn't he just bring a book like all messengers did ?
Why rashad khalifa pray 5 times a day and broke a major Rule in the Quran , that is we do not follow what our forefathers did, becausewe have the book, and why are submitters fighting for the 5 prayers to beck up khalifa claim of messengerhood ?
why there is not even one verse that talks about the 5 salat? they have to twist words and meanings to squeeze 5 or 6 salats?
Worship worship code19 and khalifa, that is the reason and they don't even think that it is the reason, they don't even think they're no different than sunnis and shiaa, they actually folloed them in the interpretations about mohamed and in the 5 zorostarian prayers

Last
Rashad said he represent the mahdi the muslims pray for, the messaiah jews are waitig for , the christ, the christians are waiting for
when i read the quran , jesus was dead and messiah came and gone , and the mehdi doesn't exist, so all these 3 are lies of sects and falshood , does ' it mean khalifa said he represent falshood? ?

Asana

@ loxbox

Your message of 140&141 are coming from a person who can not hold civilised conversation and a soon as feels defeated resort to using abusive language.

Please first learn some manner then talk about God?.Would you think nasty talking will take you to paradise?!

God is doing every thing?.Glory be to God that exposed your true colour....Would you call yourself a believer?WoWWWWW!

Asana

loxbox13

@ loxbox

Your message of 140&141 are coming from a person who can not hold civilised conversation and a soon as feels defeated resort to using abusive language.

Please first learn some manner then talk about God?.Would you think nasty talking will take you to paradise?!

God is doing every thing?.Glory be to God that exposed your true colour....Would you call yourself a believer?WoWWWWW!

Asana

Sorry if I offended u , just said what i think , she doesn't respect messengers , except khalifa . sounds to me a bit arrogant that's all

loxbox13

Peace progressive

Asana

Prophet as human being made/committed mistakes but not as a messenger.
Sounds to me TRUE

Prophet knew what was Halal or Haram; he only committed sin there by not obeying God and His message.
Sounds to me that the prophet didn't make a law to make something haram, if he did , allah would have cutt off hisheart, his did abstein from something he likes to please hiw wives or avoid problemes with his wives

Prophet as messenger never made mistakes about the message?.he failed to deliver the message or obey it??.it means that he knew the message but failed to deliver it.
AGREE

If you?d like to say Rashad made mistakes, you should specify which Rashad, as a messenger or as a human beings.
Both, to me revelation is taught by god to his messengers, so they must be perfect in understanding and explaining the message, no matter what language he is using, because allah sent the messengers with the language of their people

If you?d like to say he as a messenger made mistakes in observing the correct way of Salat, Zakat and Hajj then by all means you?re accusing God that He sent us an astray man as His messenger to lead the prayer ,it means that he deliverd the wrong message,it means that either he misunderstood God's message to deliver it to us or failed to obey God and said it out of his own desire ,which one is?
I'm not accusing god as sending him, I feel like he's a self proclaimed messenger, that's all, and after all he's dead, why should i follow him, i have the quran, and I believe that the quran is the words of Allah, word per word, without needing any code to prouve it to me, so code 19 or no code 19 , the quran is the word of god wit no doubt.

And if you?d like to say he made mistakes in his translation then again you should know that God sends the messengers with Books to preach?.If he misunderstood the message of the Quran to preach it to us then what?s the point he was sent to preach it to us in first place?What's the point a messenger teach the wrong teaching to us?
I don't know what to say, I see submitters do different than the teachings of the quran, the times of salat is one example, u take your time from abraham, I take the times from the quran, there is a big difference to me.

I admit that there are grammatical mistakes and some words missed out to be translated or structures of his sentences are not perfect but it doesn?t mean that he misunderstood the message.
I don't know about this

If you?d like to find out about those who claim that their understanding is so correct criticizing Rashad in some extend that have taken the lead to issue new way of observing Salat ,Zakat and Hajj then look at the below verse in order to see how bizarre this translation is when it comes to just a simple verse?.
I seen some people understand the quran way better than khalifa, their explanation makes perfect sense, khalifa is the master of numerology, i canno tveify him to believe in him or not, to me he didn't bring any miracle, if 19 is true, it confirm more prophet mohamed as a true messenger of god, it is my opinion and i follow what makes sense to me

I mentioned this to Pierre but he failed to respond?Now it?s your turn .Please look at it and see if you can notice the huge mistake and wrong understanding just over the two words ?.The translation is by Edip&Layth and Monotheist Group copy/paste it too!!
Edip
I respect a lot EDIP, I learned a lot from him

1964 "We are not sent except by the command of your Lord. To Him is our present and our future, and all that is in-between. Your Lord was never to forget."
NO CLUE

loxbox13

Loxbox

What would you mean by ?The?? God is called Rahim in the Quran without ?Al? too.

God is called Al-Rahman, would you know anybody can be Rahman too if we take away the ?Al? according to your understanding?

As I said before these two attributions of God only befits God to be attribute with them ?? He introduced Him to us with them and no human being posses them.

Sorry Abraham was never called merciful?.The word is Halim not Rahim.

We submitters never said or claimed that CH 74 referring to Rashad.Please check your facts first because if you don?t then it would be an accusation.

Let?s examine our faith by sharing each others? understanding not looking down on others? understanding. All of us already have been stamped by God as believers or disbelivers.The Truth of God should be followed no matter what.

Asana

Mistakes or deliberate in revelation

Y. S.* (Yaa Seen)
Footnote
And the Quran that is full of wisdom.
Most assuredly, you (Rashad) are one of the messengers.*
Footnote
On a straight path.
This revelation is from the Almighty, Most Merciful.
To warn people whose parents were never warned, and therefore, they are unaware.

Why lie to yourselves ? did Rashad came to people who have never been warned before? meaning Umyeen? meaning never recieved a book ? I believe rashad knew about this but he inserted his name, he knew what he was doing ! even though the holy spirtt is talking to the one who is receiving the revelation, Mohamed, who came to people who never been warned before, so what do u thinkk of rashad? is it a mistake in revelation ? or a deliberate insertion of his name where it doesn't belong? does this make his a false prophet either way ? he kept playing of a difference between prophets and messengers and u see with your eyes that messengers receive a book, I believe u lie to yourselves just like sunnis and shiaa do
Keep telling me I'm talking with bad manners ! for the truth hurt
Peace

Verses in 741-6 are talking about some thing that has direct link to the rest of the chapters?A profound study would reveal it for you if God wills.
It's talking to a person, not about a thing, it's addressing someone prsent times in the revelation .

And please remember we all strive to obey God according to our sincerity ? guidance is in Hands of God?He would guides us to the Path we choose so do not put your faith/understanding above faith of the others and give it a doubt that you might be deeply wrong.
All what sunnis do is trying to worship prophet mohamed, the same for submitters, their mission is to prouve rashad's messengership, and code19 . this is how i see them, i don't know how they really see themselves, i know they see themselves as people who hold all truth , and they want people to join them. following rashad and code19. I prefer to follow the quran of prophet Mohamed, in it's pure text, without seen names and words inserted in parentheses.

We both might be ddeply wrong, I did follow rashad for a while and gave it consideration, can u give it a thought that u might be ddeply wrong?

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

U right, Rashad khalifa is perfect, we have to follow rashad khalifa

http//thethirdestate.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/picard-facepalm2.jpg

Where did I say that?

I read the quran and I see Only prophet Mohamed calling people to follow Quran alone, I never see Rashad khalfa in the quran escept in his own translation
plus why didn't rashad khalifa come with a book like all messengers ?

We sent aforetime our messengers with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance 5724

A prophet is always simultaneously a messenger, but a messenger is not always a prophet.
http//www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/prophet_and_messenger_(P1161).html

And sorry for pointing that your idol is imperfect. Also see 479, 9117, 3337, 4066, 4252, 801-10 and 937. From the time he became a messenger to his death, Muhamamd was always a messenger - that means when he made mistakes, he was acting as a messenger. So you are wrong.

How come all messenger of god came with books except khalifa? I don't listen to u guys anymore because your main point in the religion is to prouve khalifa as messenger, u don't care about the quran , u care about your messenger, khalifa

Baseless assumption...

Because of your ignorance, it is pointless arguing with you.

loxbox13

Where did I say that?

Baseless assumption...

Because of your ignorance, it is pointless arguing with you.

And sorry for pointing that your idol is imperfect. Also see 479, 9117, 3337, 4066, 4252, 801-10 and 937. From the time he became a messenger to his death, Muhamamd was always a messenger - that means when he made mistakes, he was acting as a messenger. So you are wrong.

Why change the subject ? the talk is about Rashad khalifa, Sourah Ya Sin where he inserted his name
I agree with u , mohamed was indeed Evil, he might be burning in hell, that is no problem with me, I worship no pedophile .

A prophet is always simultaneously a messenger, but a messenger is not always a prophet.
I don't know who to believe, u and khalifa or the Quran, the verses I posted are clear, show me a verse that says not all messengers receive a book
Answer or explain why Khalifa inserted his name in sourah Ya Sin

loxbox13

Look at what god told Rashad Khalifa in the quran , this happened when Rashad khalifa was receiving the revelation of the quran 1400 years ago

That Allah may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way 482

Verse 479 isn't talking about the prophet, u distord the meaning of the verses just like tabari and ibn kathir, this verse is talking to men who does't obey The messenger, read the verse before and the verse after
this verse is adressing in pluriel , those like us who doesn't obey the message

I don't want to check the other verses, this first one prouve that u distort words of allah, u r free, u have your religion and I have mine, peace, I only believe in Khalifa when someone show me that messengers do not receive a book, evidence has to be from the quran and not from any man, be it khalifa or anybody else

can u explain this 3337 ? what is wrong in this verse that has to show that mohamed made a mistake ?

Please explain it because see god praising his prophet in this verse while u see the prophet making mistake, please explain it clear, if u explain it clear, I am ready to reject mohamed and accept rashad khalifa quran as rashad is the last messenger and the holliest of the holy, Abraham and mohamed and Rashad khalifa, the three major messengres of history as rashad said, he said that about himself, self praised rashad

Asana

@loxbox

You make lots of baseless accusations?.This is because either you don?t study Quran or just like to go to this thread that thread say things against submitters and Dr.Khalifa teachings.

You said that he misunderstood 1928 by translating the descendant instead of sister of Harun and I asked prove it to me that Maryam had brother then I accept your criticism. You didn?t answer.

Then you said ?Al? apply to name of God therefore Rahim can be used for Mohammad. I asked you what about Rahim without Al in the Quran referring to God, again you didn?t answer.

And now;

Why lie to yourselves ? did Rashad came to people who have never been warned before? meaning Umyeen?

Can you please tell me were the Children of Israel omi according to you when God kept sending them prophets and messengers?

Where about in the Quran God says that He would send Warners only to those who are omi??

Keep telling me I'm talking with bad
manners ! for the truth hurt
,

What truth so far have you told us except bunch of misunderstanding of the verses or baseless accusations?

1964 "We are not sent except by the command of your Lord. To Him is our present and our future, and all that is in-between. Your Lord was never to forget."
NO CLUE

If you or anybody else beside you can?t see the gross mistake in above translation then what makes you think that you understand the verses correctly and are on the right path?

For your information I didn?t accept/believe in Rashad as messenger of God just like that. I did my homework first through his translation and his message with will of God and His guidance then I believed in him.

Asana

loxbox13

@loxbox

Can you please tell me were the Children of Israel omi according to you when God kept sending them prophets and messengers?

Where about in the Quran God says that He would send Warners only to those who are omi??

Keep telling me I'm talking with bad,

What truth so far have you told us except bunch of misunderstanding of the verses or baseless accusations?

If you or anybody else beside you can?t see the gross mistake in above translation then what makes you think that you understand the verses correctly and are on the right path?

For your information I didn?t accept/believe in Rashad as messenger of God just like that. I did my homework first through his translation and his message with will of God and His guidance then I believed in him.

Asana

You make lots of baseless accusations?.This is because either you don?t study Quran or just like to go to this thread that thread say things against submitters and Dr.Khalifa teachings.
I didn't know that khalifa had his own teachings that we must follow !!!!

You said that he misunderstood 1928 by translating the descendant instead of sister of Harun and I asked prove it to me that Maryam had brother then I accept your criticism. You didn?t answer.
Brother before i answer to u this question, we have to agree of the word oukht litterlly means sister ! if u don't agree about oukht that in arabic it means sister , than we cant continuie, if u agree , that i answer u
u asked me a question to prouve to you that miriam had a brother, I can't , i believe her brother name was Aaron, and she has another brother, his name was Moses , she is the duaghter of Imran , just like moses and aaron,
now u asked a question with no sense, i answer u this way, can u prouve that miriam didn't have a brother? her mother asked about her at birth and that made u know that she didn't have a brother? what about a younger brother? what about a brother from the father side? u can never prouve that miriam didn't have a brother, because u weren't there, not u nor khalifa.
can u agree that Oukht in Arabic means Sister or not ? go to google translator if u don't believe, the're not submitters nor sunni, they don't even believe in islam. type this in any translator in the world or ask any arabic scholar in arabic language or any kid or arabic baby, he tells u this word means sister

Can you please tell me were the Children of Israel omi according to you when God kept sending them prophets and messengers?
According to the quran, in the quran , mohamed was the ummi who came to the umiyeen and h was from the umiyeen, if u now someone else in the quran, please post the verse, that's it.

Can you please tell me were the Children of Israel omi according to you when God kept sending them prophets and messengers?
I was talking about sourah Ya Sin, u didn't answer and try to change the subject , just answer who was the messenger who came to people who never been warned nor their forefather ? answer it honestly, or is it too hard to say khalifa made a mistake ?

What truth so far have you told us except bunch of misunderstanding of the verses or baseless accusations?
I'm not accusing you of anything, we just debating, just talking

If you or anybody else beside you can?t see the gross mistake in above translation then what makes you think that you understand the verses correctly and are on the right path?
If it's not in the Quran , we have to reject or not take in consideration, i posted 3 verse that say messengers came with a book, i'm still waiting for a verse that say some messengers don't come with a book; can u provide at least one verse ? if there is not, than khalifa was teaching outside of the quran. period, as simple as that, einshtein of Islam cannot turn us ashtray if we trust the quran, if it's not in the quran , it's SATAN , submiters themselves say that no ?

For your information I didn?t accept/believe in Rashad as messenger of God just like that. I did my homework first through his translation and his message with will of God and His guidance then I believed in him.
in him who ? rashad or god or mohamed ? one sent the quran, one brought the quran, another modified the quran; wich one u talking about , "him"

Asana

@loxbox

I asked you about the Edip&Layth translation regarding 1964 as you replied no CLUE as below

1964 "We are not sent except by the command of your Lord. To Him is our present and our future, and all that is in-between. Your Lord was never to forget."
NO CLUE

And then you turned it into this to answer me which is not relevent to my question

If you or anybody else beside you can?t see the gross mistake in above translation then what makes you think that you understand the verses correctly and are on the right path?
If it's not in the Quran , we have to reject or not take in consideration, i posted 3 verse that say messengers came with a book, i'm still waiting for a verse that say some messengers don't come with a book; can u provide at least one verse ? if there is not, than khalifa was teaching outside of the quran. period, as simple as that, einshtein of Islam cannot turn us ashtray if we trust the quran, if it's not in the quran , it's SATAN , submiters themselves say that no ?

I leave it to the people who read your response to judge you what a cheater you can be just because you don?t have answer to my question!!

You claim Rashad?s translation is incorrect and yet can?t prove it?you?re just beating around the bush?.Your accusation needs to be sorted out by your evidence and proof?..I didn?t claim it was wrong.

You didn?t answer the question regarding ?Al? and Rahim in the Quran.

Your baseless accusations are about submitters and Dr.Khalifa

And I repeat again you couldn?t figure out the simple but gross mistake in Edip?s translation in 1964 and yet want to distinguish between messenger and prophet in the Quran and teaching me!!

My answer for 366 too is that I, my parents and my ancestors did not receive A Warner as a Messenger in our city and country!....Did you?
1400 years gone and there was no Warner!

Prophet Mohammad was sent to his people as ommiun and the people of the Book too?.He was raised among the ommiun not specifically for the ommiun?The below verse nullifies your claim

We have sent you out of mercy from us towards the whole world.

Would you think the whole world is /was ommiun?!

Asana