Why,Why on earth give your friendly visitors knives tell me?
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Actually there isn't a banquet at all to my understanding
Mutaka'an =Mat (=to draw near)+Ka'an(=one who abstained from something through cowardice)
So the lady actually invited her friends to see joseph -who (if you remember) abstained from her aproaches,earlier,through cowardice or something to that effect.
These are from lanes.
So No Banquet-so they didn't need knives and forks sorry to say.
Salaam idolfree,sabo and Khalil.
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peace and salam
Dear mz357
God post and good understanding of the Quran
An eye opener for those who blindly believe in the traditional translation.
I am fixing one more wing to your bird (post) to make it a complete bird.
So the king said "Bring ye him unto me." But when the messenger came to him (Joseph) said "Go thou back to thy lord and ask him `WHAT IS THE STATE OF MIND OF THE LADIES who cut their hands?' for my Lord is certainly well aware of their snare." 1250
The question" WHAT IS THE STATE OF MIND OF THE LADIES" surely cannot be asked to those WHO HAVE CUT THEIR HANDS, but to those WHO HAVE LOST THEIR MENTAL BALANCE.
Thanks
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Salaams hafeez,
pitty ,i hadn't noticed or rather remembered that ayat-Thanks.
Baal = state of mind ,thought,intention,important series affair.
So
".........What was the intention/goings on of the ladies who collapsed/or lost their balance surely my lord of their plot well aware."
I don't think you would mind me putting it together like this.
Thanks.
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Salam to mz357
WHAT WAS THE EVIL PLOT?
So the king said "Bring ye him unto me." But when the messenger came to him (Joseph) said "Go thou back to thy lord and ask him `WHAT IS THE STATE OF MIND OF THE LADIES who cut their hands?' for my Lord is certainly well aware of their PLOT." 1250
(The King) said (to the women) "WHAT WAS YOUR AFFAIR when you did SEEK TO SEDUCE Yusuf (Joseph)?" The women said "Allah forbid! we knew not of any evil against him.!" The wife of Al-'Aziz said "Now the truth is manifest (to all), IT WAS I WHO SOUGHT TO SEDUCE HIM, and he is surely of the truthful." 1251
He said "This is he (the young man) about whom you did blame me (for his love), and I DID SEEK TO SEDUCE HIM, but he refused. And now IF HE REFUSES TO OBEY MY ORDER, he shall certainly be cast into prison, and will be one of those who are disgraced." 1232
He said"O my Lord! PRISON IS MORE TO MY LACKING than that to WHICH THEY INVITE ME. Unless YOU TURN AWAY THEIR PLOT FROM ME, I will feel inclined towards them and be one (of those who commit sin and deserve blame or those who do deeds) of the ignorants." 1233
So his Lord answered his invocation and TURNED AWAY THEIR PLOT FROM HIM. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower. 1234
The evil plot was that THE WOMEN ALSO DID SEEK TO SEDUCE YOUSUF
thanks.
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Salaams hafeez,
1234 Kaida-hunnaKaida= to act deceitfully,mischevously,or wickedly/plot/stratagem.
Hunna=It came,or happened,without inconvenience or trouble.
= The thing was pleasent,or productive of enjoyment.So as you was saying it was a cunning plot the women wanted to have some type of fun.
Salaams.
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Actually there isn't a banquet at all to my understanding
Mutaka'an =Mat (=to draw near)+Ka'an(=one who abstained from something through cowardice)
So the lady actually invited her friends to see joseph -who (if you remember) abstained from her aproaches,earlier,through cowardice or something to that effect.
These are from lanes.
So No Banquet-so they didn't need knives and forks sorry to say.
Salaam idolfree,sabo and Khalil.
Good work i do say, your translation makes more sense than the others I've come upon.
Although, I am wondering why Free-Minds stuck with the traditional translation.
I have some questions as well, please bear with me, as I do not speak arabic so my questions might sound rather strange to you.
What happened to the words usually translated as the ones highlighted below
- So when she heard of their scheming, she sent for them and prepared a banquet for them, and she gave each one of them a knife. And she said ?Come out to them,? so when they saw him they exalted him and cut their hands, and they said ?God be praised, this is not a human, but a blessed Angel!?
The question" WHAT IS THE STATE OF MIND OF THE LADIES" surely cannot be asked to those WHO HAVE CUT THEIR HANDS, but to those WHO HAVE LOST THEIR MENTAL BALANCE.
That makes much more sense as well, good stuff'n.
pz
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Salaams all,
Khalils Q,
and prepared =Wa A'tadat = and got ready
(Q.d)
---------and got ready for them a banquet/party/gathering/get together/show and she came ,every one of them settled and said come out........Salaams.
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Peace be upon you all,
I am trying to follow along because I think you guys are onto something, please bear with me.
Is the word for "hands" in this verse? (1231)
What does the phrase "waqattaAAna aydiyahunna " mean literally? I understand the implied meaning, I am looking to see what it literally says.
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Salaams all,
Khalils Q,
and prepared =Wa A'tadat = and got ready
(Q.d)
---------and got ready for them a banquet/party/gathering/get together/show and she came ,every one of them settled and said come out........Salaams.
peace
Thats making sense now, but where abouts did the translators get the word knife from as well as the term cut?
pz
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Salaams idol,
The word is
Aidh and this is not hand but=strength,authority and couple of other according to lanes.
But
Yadh = hand ,this accurs in a lot of the quranic ayats but nothing to do with cutting.
Your phrase can be written"It cut their strength right from under them". or you can say "they failed in their strengths"
And Br. Khalils q.
Their is no knife but i think it came into play because of the word which means lossing ones strength (when someone is in a type of a shock,or surprise type of thing) or cutting is the same.
Thanks.
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Peace
Maybe instead of muttakan should be read mutkan lemon or matkan, as i heard from a friend that matkan can mean a piece of meat, a leg or similar...
According to my dic.. verb mataka masdar matk(cutting) can mean to undercut, to cut off;to clip, curtail(wings); to trim(nails)
Temattaka -to swallow
Matk- piece, (the cut off )piece
Mutk lemon
Best wishes, Zlatan
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Peace be upon you Mz,
Thank you for the clarifications, excellent job.
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Salaam,
No no to cutting of hands- as this debate shows.
Thanks!
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If you are doing something and you were taken by surprise; how do you react? You stop what you are doing, of course! They stopped whatever they were doing with their hands. I never heard of a woman working in the kitchen e.g and "cutting" her hand if she was surprised. Rather, it's more classical to "drop" what is in your hand because even the grasp will be relaxed (hand stops action). No surprise such a translation is by a man ;D If they ever cooked...
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Peace
mz357, SamiaWhile mz 357 gave a kick start to an enlightenment, samia completed it! Great going indeed!
All women who were extending their hands towards Aziz's wife, pointing their fingers at her accusing of indecency until they saw the exquisiteness of Yusuf before their very eyes, they could no more accuse her with their hands and fingers. Next thing, all her women tried to pressurize Yusuf to submit himself to Aziz's wife and please her. It may not be that all women tried to seduce Yusuf. So Aziz's wife says "Since truth is now open, I admit it is me who tried to seduced Yusuf!"
Thanks mz and samia.
Peace..
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Then the most important thing about Quranic verses is that it gives direction and guidance through divergent meanings, in its full application, contextually and conceptually; philosophically and spiritually; physically and metaphysically in whichever possible way you may consider any single ayat of Quran. Thus if you have Sakeenun = Calmness / tranquility/ knife etc., we shall keep in mind all the three meanings and in future when the human understanding of their language develops thesaurus, further giving manifold synonyms - they too might give myriads of meanings without contradicting each other.
For example, knife has many meanings Any long thin projections - We find in dictionaries as even tongue is knife. It is common usage to say about a person who has sharp tongue such as She kills her with her tongue; she stings with her tongue. Here the word tongue has a different meaning. Now, if knife is applied in 12 31 the meaning goes thus
1231
So when she heard of their accusations she sent for them and prepared for them a gathering and she came, every one of them were given chance to use their tongues against her; and then asked him to go before them. When they saw his exalted manner they became mute and tongueless.
Peace.
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Peace drfazl
Thank you for your suggested other probable meaning of the word in question to knife=tongue , I would like to take it further into tongue=speech and hopefully the translation would make better contextual sense .
quote
For example, knife has many meanings Any long thin projections - We find in dictionaries as even tongue is knife. It is common usage to say about a person who has sharp tongue such as She kills her with her tongue; she stings with her tongue. Here the word tongue has a different meaning. Now, if knife is applied in 12 31 the meaning goes thus1231 ( new translation ) .
"So when she heard of their accusations , she sent for them and prepared for them a gathering and they came , every one of them were given a chance to speak against her and then ask him ( Joseph ) to go before them ( the ladies ) . When they saw his exalted manner , they became mute and speechless ".
Hope this is of use .
Peace
almarh0m