Koranic Eschatology...Beast, False Prophet, Muddy Springs...

unknownuser

Koranic Eschatology...

Two Horns, Koran (1883-100)

Two Horns, Book of Revelation (72-4, 79, 810-11, 1311-18, 152, 162, 169-11, 1613-14, 1919-21, 201-4, 207-8 )

Two Horns, Koran

(1883-100)

1883 And they ask/question you about (owner) of the two horns/powers/glories, Say "I will read/recite on (to) you from him a reminder/remembrance."

1884 We have highly positioned/strengthened for him in the earth/Planet Earth, and We gave/brought him from every thing a reason/motive/connection.

Compare to Rev 1311-18; 1920

And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth. And it had two horns like a lamb, but spoke like a dragon. And it executes all the authority of the first beast before it. And it causes that the earth and those dwelling in it should worship the first beast, of which was healed its deadly wound. And it does great signs, that it even causes fire to come down out of the heaven onto the earth before men. And it deceives those dwelling on the earth, because of the signs which were given to it to do before the beast, saying to those dwelling on the earth to make an image to the beast who has the wound of the sword, and lived. And was given to it to give a spirit to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak, and might cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. And the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the freemen and the slaves, it causes that they give to them all a mark on their right hand, or on their foreheads, even that not any could buy or sell, except the one having the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of its name. Here is wisdom Let the one having reason count the number of the beast, for it is the number of man and its number is six hundred and sixty six. (Rev 1311-18 )

And the beast was seized, and with this one the false prophet doing signs before it, by which he led astray those having received the mark of the beast, and those worshiping its image. The two were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire burning with brimstone. (Rev 1920)

Summary of Sura 1883-84 & Rev 1311-18; 1920

Is something with Two Horns described?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Revelation tells us that the Two Horns belong to a second beast that comes up out of the Earth. It has Two Horns like a Lamb, but speaks like a Dragon
Does the Beast with Two Horns have authority on the earth?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Does the Beast with Two Horns have a motive?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Revelation tells us that the Beast with Two Horns has all the authority of the First Beast, that came before it, and it?s motive is to cause the earth, and those dwelling in it, to worship the First Beast.
Revelation also informs us that this Second Beast from the Earth, the one with Two Horns, the one doing Great Signs, and the one leading astray those with the Mark of the Beast, is the FALSE PROPHET
Furthermore, Revelation 1318 tells us that the False Prophet is mankind as a whole. Note that the Greek contains no indefinite article (?a? or ?an?), thus it cannot apply to a specific individual

1885 So he followed a reason/motive/connection.

1886 Until when he reached the sun's sunset/west, he found it departing/declining (setting) in (at a) water well/spring mixed with black (foul) mud, and he found at it a nation, We said "You (owner) of the two horns/powers/glories, either that you torture, and either you take in them a goodness/beauty."

1887 He said "As for who caused injustice/oppression, so we will/shall torture him, then he be returned to his Lord, so He tortures him an awful/obscene/severe torture."

Compare to Rev 810-11; 162; 169-11

And the third angel trumpeted. And a great burning star, like a lamp, fell out of the heaven. And it fell onto the third part of the rivers, and onto the springs of waters. And the name of the star is said to be Wormwood. And the third part of the waters became changed into wormwood. And many men died from the waters, because they were bitter. (Rev 810-11)

And the first went away and poured out his bowl onto the earth. And it came to be a bad and evil sore onto the men, the ones having the mark of the beast, and the ones worshiping its image. (Rev 162)

And men were burned with great heat. And they blasphemed the name of God, the One having authority over these plagues and they did not repent to give Him glory. And the fifth angel poured out his bowl onto the throne of the beast. And its kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues from the pain. And they blasphemed the God of Heaven, from their pains and from their sores. And they did not repent of their works. (Rev 169-11)

Summary of Sura 1886-87 & Rev 810-11; 162; 169-11

Is something descending?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What is descending?...Revelation, great burning star (like a lamp)?Koran, sun
Where is it descending?...Revelation, onto springs of waters?Koran, in a water spring
Is the spring mixed with something?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What is it mixed with?...Revelation, the star called Wormwood?Koran, black (foul) mud
Note that Wormwood is a plant that yields a bitter DARK GREEN OIL used in absinthe
Are people tortured/tormented?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
8 ) Is the torture/torment severe?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Is the torture/torment fatal?...Revelation, no?Koran, no
Which people are tortured/tormented?...Revelation, the ones having the Mark of the Beast, and worshiping its image?Koran, the ones who caused injustice/oppression

1888 "And as for who believed and made/did correct/righteous deeds, so to him the best's/goodnesses' reward/reimbursement, and we will say to him from our order/matter ease/flexibility."

Compare to Rev 152; 204

And I saw, as a glassy sea having been mixed with fire. And the ones overcoming the beast, and its image, and its mark, of the number of its name, were standing on the glassy sea, having harps of God. (Rev 152)

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them. And judgment was given to them, and the souls of the ones having been beheaded because of the witness of Jesus, and because of the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor its image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Rev 204)

Summary of Sura 1888 & Rev 152; 204

Are some people spared from the torture/torment?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Who is spared?...Revelation, the ones overcoming the beast, its image, and its mark of the number of its name?Koran, those who believed and did the correct & righteous deeds

1889 Then he followed a reason/motive/connection.

1890 Until when he reached the sun's place and time of appearance/ascent, he found it appears/ascends/rises on a nation We did not make/put from other than it a cover/protection/shelter.

1891 Like that, and We had comprehended/enveloped with what (is) at/near him (with) knowledge.

Compare to Rev 72-4; 79

And I saw another angel coming up from the rising of the sun, having a seal of the living God. And he cried with a great voice to the four angels to whom it was given to them to harm the earth and the sea, saying, Do not harm the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, until we seal the slaves of our God on their foreheads. And I heard the number of those having been sealed one hundred forty four thousands, having been sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel (Rev 72-4)

After these things I saw, and behold, a great crowd which no one was able to number them, out of every nation, even tribes and peoples and tongues, standing in front of the throne, and before the Lamb, having been clothed with white robes, and in their hands palm branches. (Rev 79)

Summary of Sura 1890-91 & Rev 72-4; 79

An event takes place at the rising of the Sun (East)?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What occurs at that time?...Revelation, Seal of God is placed upon men out of every nation?Koran, a cover/protection/shelter is placed on a nation

1892 Then he followed a reason/motive/connection.

1893 Until when he reached between the two barriers/obstacles/mountains, he found from other than them a nation they are not about to/almost understand a saying/opinion and belief.

1894 They said "You (owner) of the two horns/powers/glories, that Yagog and Magog (are) corrupting in the earth/Planet Earth, so do we make/put for you (a) royalty/retainer/expense/tribute on that you put/create between us and between them a barrier/obstacle?"

1895 He said "What my Lord highly positioned/strengthened/empowered me in it (is) best, so help/support me with power/strength, I make/create/put between you and between them a blockage/barrier."

1896 "Give/bring me the huge pieces of iron." Until when he straightened/leveled/equalized between the two sides/directions/mountain sides, he said "Blow." Until when he made it a fire, he said "Give/bring me, I pour on it molten copper/brass/iron."

1897 So they did not rise/diffuse/spread over (it, nor) that they mount/ascend it, and they were not able (of) piercing/penetration for it.

1898 He said "That (is) mercy from my Lord, so if my Lord's promise came, he made it flattened/leveled off and my Lord's promise was truthfully (truthful).?

1899 And We left some/part of them (on) that day (to) trouble/agitate (interlock) in some/part, and the horn/bugle/instrument was blown in, so We gathered/collected them all together.

18100 And We displayed/presented Hell (on) that day to the disbelievers a display/exhibition.

Compare to Rev 1613-14; 1919-21; 201-3; 207-8

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons doing signs, which go forth to the kings of the earth, even of the whole habitable world to assemble them to the war of that day, the great day of God Almighty. (Rev 1613-14)

And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth, and their armies being assembled to make war with the One sitting on the horse, and with His army. And the beast was seized, and with this one the false prophet doing signs before it, by which he led astray those having received the mark of the beast, and those worshiping its image. The two were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword of the One sitting on the horse, the sword having gone forth from His mouth. And all the birds were filled from their flesh. (Rev 1919-21)

And I saw an angel coming down out of Heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain on his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the old serpent who is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and threw him into the abyss, and shut him up, and sealed over him, that he should not still lead astray the nations, until the thousand years are fulfilled. And after these things, he must be set loose a little time. (Rev 201-3)

And whenever the thousand years are ended, Satan will be set loose out of his prison, And he will go to mislead the nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to assemble them in war, whose number is as the sand of the sea. (Rev 207-8 )

Summary of Sura 1893-100 & Rev 1613-14; 1919-21; 201-3; 207-8

Does a barrier exist?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
A barrier between what?...Revelation, the Devil and the Nations?Koran, Two Horns & the Nations
Revelation tells us that the ?Two Horns? represents the False Prophet
What is this barrier?...Revelation, the abyss?Koran, a blockage between the mountain sides
The Greek word translated as abyss, ?abussos? means ?pit? or ?a very deep gulf or chasm in the lowest parts of the earth?
Is there metal in this barrier?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What is this metal?...Revelation, chain & key,?Koran, iron/copper/brass
8 ) Is the barrier sealed?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Is the barrier sealed for a period of time?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
How long is it sealed?...Revelation, 1,000 years?Koran, till the day the Lord?s promise comes
Is the barrier then opened?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Revelation informs us that the Dragon (Satan/Devil/Serpent), the Beast, and the False Prophet (Two Horns) are all responsible for the Great War
Is there a punishment for the disbelievers?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What is the punishment?...Revelation, Lake of Fire & Brimstone?Koran, Hell
Did some people escape this punishment?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What is their fate?...Revelation, they were killed with the sword that had gone forth from the mouth of the one sitting on the Horse?Koran, left to trouble/agitation
Are they all gathered together?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
18 ) What is the fate of those gathered together?...Revelation, Lake of Fire & Brimstone?Koran, Hell

Integrated Summary

Is something with Two Horns described?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Revelation tells us that the Two Horns belong to a second beast that comes up out of the Earth. It has Two Horns like a Lamb, but speaks like a Dragon
Does the Beast with Two Horns have authority on the earth?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Does the Beast with Two Horns have a motive?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Revelation tells us that the Beast with Two Horns has all the authority of the First Beast, that came before it, and it?s motive is to cause the earth, and those dwelling in it, to worship the First Beast.
Revelation also informs us that this Second Beast from the Earth, the one with Two Horns, the one doing Great Signs, and the one leading astray those with the Mark of the Beast, is the FALSE PROPHET
Furthermore, Revelation 1318 tells us that the False Prophet is mankind as a whole. Note that the Greek contains no indefinite article (?a? or ?an?), thus it cannot apply to a specific individual
8 ) Is something descending?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What is descending?...Revelation, great burning star (like a lamp)?Koran, sun
Where is it descending?...Revelation, onto springs of waters?Koran, in a water spring
Is the spring mixed with something?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What is it mixed with?...Revelation, the star called Wormwood?Koran, black (foul) mud
Note that Wormwood is a plant that yields a bitter DARK GREEN OIL used in absinthe
Are people tortured/tormented?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Is the torture/torment severe?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Is the torture/torment fatal?...Revelation, no?Koran, no
Which people are tortured/tormented?...Revelation, the ones having the Mark of the Beast, and worshiping its image?Koran, the ones who caused injustice/oppression
18 ) Are some people spared from the torture/torment?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Who is spared?...Revelation, the ones overcoming the beast, its image, and its mark of the number of its name?Koran, those who believed and did the correct & righteous deeds
An event takes place at the rising of the Sun (East)?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What occurs at that time?...Revelation, Seal of God is placed upon men out of every nation?Koran, a cover/protection/shelter is placed on a nation
Does a barrier exist?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
A barrier between what?...Revelation, the Devil and the Nations?Koran, Two Horns & the Nations
Revelation tells us that the ?Two Horns? represents the False Prophet
What is this barrier?...Revelation, the abyss?Koran, a blockage between the mountain sides
The Greek word translated as abyss, ?abussos? means ?pit? or ?a very deep gulf or chasm in the lowest parts of the earth?
Is there metal in this barrier?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
28 ) What is this metal?...Revelation, chain & key,?Koran, iron/copper/brass
Is the barrier sealed?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Is the barrier sealed for a period of time?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
How long is it sealed?...Revelation, 1,000 years?Koran, till the day the Lord?s promise comes
Is the barrier then opened?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Revelation informs us that the Dragon (Satan/Devil/Serpent), the Beast, and the False Prophet (Two Horns) are all responsible for the Great War
Is there a punishment for the disbelievers?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What is the punishment?...Revelation, Lake of Fire & Brimstone?Koran, Hell
Did some people escape this punishment?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What is their fate?...Revelation, they were killed with the sword that had gone forth from the mouth of the one sitting on the Horse?Koran, left to trouble/agitation
38 ) Are they all gathered together?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
What is the fate of those gathered together?...Revelation, Lake of Fire & Brimstone?Koran, Hell
Does it torture all men?...Revelation, no?Koran, no
Who does not get tortured?...Revelation, the ones with their names in the Lamb?s Book of Life?Koran, the ones who believed and did the correct righteous deeds
Does it gather the Nations together?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Gog & Magog?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
Who gathers Gog & Magog?...Revelation, three unclean spirits, Satan, beast, & false prophet?Koran, Two Horns
Is there a time for it?...Revelation, yes, 1,000 years?Koran, retainer
Where is Satan?...Revelation, sealed in the abyss, prison?Koran, barrier/obstacle
Revelation tells us that the number of the beast is mans? number
48 ) Should all listen to this?...Revelation, yes?Koran, yes
The two horns represents whom?...Revelation, False prophet?Koran, False prophet

unknownuser

Salaams apple pie,
Love you for trying to prove your point,however it will accur to you too that the quran is not falsified bible in that it has corrected the errors that had crept into your so called revelation.

That is why it came in the first place to correct THE MISTAKES THAT CAME ABOUT IN THE BIBLE.

Beleive or not beleive it - you will however realise it in the near future.

I find the quran is idealy perfect ,except for the missunderstood mistranslation of it .

Thanks.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

What is this thread about?

Satan_Hates_Me

That is why it came in the first place to correct THE MISTAKES THAT CAME ABOUT IN THE BIBLE.

Bingo!

Satan_Hates_Me

Peace be upon you,

What is this thread about?

Apple Pie said "The two horns represents whom?...Revelation, False prophet?Koran, False prophet"

unknownuser

"The first translations of the Quran was due to the missionary Petrus
Venerabilis, abbot of Clugny (died 1157 AD). He proposed the translation of
the Quran into Latin, and the task was accomplished by an Englishman, Robert
of Retina, and a German, Hermann of Dalmatia. Although the work was
completed in 1143; itremained hidden for nearly four hundred years, till it
was published at Basle in 1543 by Theodore Bibliander. This version was
afterwards rendered into Italian, German and Dutch."

Salaams all,
You may be interested in knowing why bits of the bible is in the quranic translation

Moses stick turning into a snake ,noahs ark,and all the other bitsEsentially the translator was a monk who translated the quran from the view that the stories in their matched those originally found in the bible ,But to my knowledge anyway the stories found in the quran are the correct versions and the poor monk mistranslated a fair bit.

If apple pie sees two horned beasts in the shape of a ram or a dragon,to me thats his understanding in the version but to me there is no such a thing its all part and parcel of the mistranslations in the bible ,one of the main reasons Allah sent the quran.

I think so.

unknownuser

Greetings mz357,

Thanks for your comments?

Love you for trying to prove your point,however it will accur to you too that the quran is not falsified bible in that it has corrected the errors that had crept into your so called revelation.

Actually, as you can plainly see for yourself, this small slice of Koranic scripture is parallel to its source material, the Biblical Book of Revelation?

Furthermore, it is readily apparent that the Koranic scripture has not ?corrected? nor ?clarified? any of this Biblical scripture?..it has only copied it?hence, the Holy Bible, as the originator of this material, is required to correct, and clarify the Koran?

And?as you can see for yourself, indeed it does?.

That is why it came in the first place to correct THE MISTAKES THAT CAME ABOUT IN THE BIBLE.

Well?please feel free to show me how the Koran ?corrects? the above material?thanks?.

Beleive or not beleive it - you will however realise it in the near future.

Is this an episode of Ripley?s Believe it or not?.?

I find the quran is idealy perfect ,except for the missunderstood mistranslation of it .

Since the Koran is no more than a translation of the Biblical Hebrew and Greek into Arabic, it is hardly ?new?, nor is it ?perfect??

The source of the Koran (Holy Bible) is where the truth is?.

"The first translations of the Quran was due to the missionary Petrus
Venerabilis, abbot of Clugny (died 1157 AD). He proposed the translation of
the Quran into Latin, and the task was accomplished by an Englishman, Robert
of Retina, and a German, Hermann of Dalmatia. Although the work was
completed in 1143; itremained hidden for nearly four hundred years, till it
was published at Basle in 1543 by Theodore Bibliander. This version was
afterwards rendered into Italian, German and Dutch."

What is this all about??

You may be interested in knowing why bits of the bible is in the quranic translation

Moses stick turning into a snake ,noahs ark,and all the other bitsEsentially the translator was a monk who translated the quran from the view that the stories in their matched those originally found in the bible ,But to my knowledge anyway the stories found in the quran are the correct versions and the poor monk mistranslated a fair bit.

Is this an admission that a ?monk? is responsible for the version of the Koran that we now have in possession today??

If apple pie sees two horned beasts in the shape of a ram or a dragon,to me thats his understanding in the version but to me there is no such a thing its all part and parcel of the mistranslations in the bible ,one of the main reasons Allah sent the quran.

I think so.

Since the Koran is primarily composed of Genesis and Book of Revelation material (kind of like Biblical bookends), it would be most prudent of you to make absolutely sure of what you speak?.

Take care?

unknownuser

Good to see you applepie,
I will be considerate and spend some time doing a translation of a story from the quran ,for your consideration .

Then you can guide us, to say which is the truthfull and which the corrupted ,Thankyou.

Bye for now.

unknownuser

Greetings mz357,

Thanks for your reply?

I will be considerate and spend some time doing a translation of a story from the quran ,for your consideration .

Then you can guide us, to say which is the truthfull and which the corrupted ,Thankyou.

Well?what is wrong with the above material contained in this thread??

Now is your golden opportunity to show me how Sura 18 ?corrects or clarifies? the Book of Revelation?

If you decline...then I will have to take this as admission that the Book of Revelation is the Superior source...

If you are thinking of avoiding Sura 18?and instead putting forth other Koranic material?I would hope that your consideration encompasses beginning a new thread..as this one is about Sura 18?.

Thanks?

unknownuser

What ayat,just one -we are all busy,as no dought you are,or 2,maybe three then.

D !.

unknownuser

No hurry...

Take your time...

Just show me where Sura 18 "corrects" the Book of Revelation...

How hard can it be......?

unknownuser

If you could point out the ayats,that you reckon where taken from your version of revelation,that will help.

Thanks. Bye.

unknownuser

Take your pick...

unknownuser

Where,you choose the verse,as i didn't start this thread you did.And post the ayat as it accurs in your rev.Surely you can do that for me.

of course.

unknownuser

Hmmmm....Looks like a stall on your part...

All you have to do is look at this spread...1883-100...and tell me one single ayah that "corrects" the Book of Revelation...

You made the claim...now back it up.....
lol

unknownuser

Any progress in showing me where the Koran "corrects" the Biblical Book of Revelation...?

Looks to me like you are struggling for an answer to support your claim...

Oh well..... wink

unknownuser

I am not sure what you are expecting ,First you need to show me an ayat that has come from you're revalation. then i will show you how that corrects you rev.

If for any reason you can't ,i rather not wast your time ,Thank you.

Good luck,you want that.

unknownuser

Most excellent...

Just what I thought....your Koran in no way, shape, or forms "corrects" the Book of Revelation...

Thanks for showing this truth to all of us..

With all due resepect, perhaps in the future, you will think twice before making the silly claim that the Koran "corrects" Biblical scripture...and then, when confronted with the challenge to back up your claim, you fall flat on your face...

Take care...