Symolisms

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

regarding thos verses, what is the arabic word for "understand"?

unknownuser

Salaams idol,

Yes the word you want is LILDIKRE.

Salaams.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MZ,

Yes the word you want is LILDIKRE.

Is that the word for "understand" or "remember"?

I ask because the veres you gave use the term "lilththikri" and the translators have it as follows.

(5417)
Transliteration - Walaqad yassarna alqur-ana lilththikri fahal min muddakirin

Y.Ali- And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember then is there any that will receive admonition?

R.Khalifa - We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

Pickthal - And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?

Shakir - And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?

Literal - And We have (E) eased/made the Koran flexible to the remembrance/reminder, so is there from a rememberer?

Remembering and understanding are different. Please clarify if that is the word for "understand".

unknownuser

How unfortunate but ,yes according to the great lanes.May be Q.d aswell but haven't checked that.

Salaams.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MZ,

I am not clear on your last response. What is unfortunate? And according to Lanes, what was the final answer?

unknownuser

Salaams idolfree,
Sorry i meant it means both -in lanes.As in some of the translations you gave.

I think even where they just use remember,does it make any sense to remember something when you don't understand.I think the hadithists are doing enough of that and that is not what God had in mind,anyway what do you think?But i ,from my understanding of it do say it means both.

Thanks.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MZ,

I think the meaning is that it is easy to remember. I would agree with you that the ultimate goal is to understand it. I would say that the stairghtfoward parts like don't kill, steal, etc are understood, so if we at least remember that part, we are doing much better than the present condition of humanity.

Regarding the actual word, I would put "understand" in the same category as whichever word is used for "reason" or "comprehend".

Satan_Hates_Me

Idolfree

7 skies = 7 parts of the mind

what are these seven parts of the mind and can you back up your proof with some kind of phsycological evidence?

I can never understand how someone can justify symbolic logic when symbolism is so subjective.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

what are these seven parts of the mind and can you back up your proof with some kind of phsycological evidence?

I can never understand how someone can justify symbolic logic when symbolism is so subjective.

I do not have the proof for that information at this time. That is based off of a hunch at this time, which is how all ideas start. What is your understanding of the seven pairs given to us with the great reading(quran)?

Satan_Hates_Me

Peace be upon you,

what are these seven parts of the mind and can you back up your proof with some kind of phsycological evidence?
I can never understand how someone can justify symbolic logic when symbolism is so subjective.

I do not have the proof for that information at this time. That is based off of a hunch at this time, which is how all ideas start. What is your understanding of the seven pairs given to us with the great reading(quran)?

my undertanding is base on the context of the surronding verses

1585 - We did not create the heavens and the earth, and everything between them, except for a specific purpose. The end of the world will come, so treat them with benign neglect.

1586 - Your Lord is the Creator, the Omniscient.

1587 - We have given you the seven pairs, and the great Quran.

1588 - Do not be jealous of what we bestowed upon the other (messengers), and do not be saddened (by the disbelievers), and lower your wing for the believers.

It is clear that the seven pairs are within the Koran. There are many place in the Koran where "and" is use to place emphasis on a part of something but not isolating it from that thing (253).
Also it was given to the messenger, not humans beings. So the claims that we were given the "seven pairs" which are our "seven parts" of the mind seem illogical.
Also it says "pairs" not parts. So technically, there are 14 separate elements that is mention in verse 1587.

Base on these facts, it is clear the "seven pairs" are the beginning initials of different Koran chapters. They are the only tanigble evidence that prefectly testify to these seven pairs.

they are "seven pairs"
14 different elements
they are within the koran
plus in context of the verse, they hint to "The end of the world"

surah# / beginning initials

Q
N
S (Saad)
H.M.
Y.S.
T.H.
T.S.
A.L.M.
A.L.R.
T.S.M.
`A.S.Q.
A.L.M.S.
A.L.M.R.
K.H.Y.`A.S.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

What do you see as the purpose of the 14 initials?

Idris

peace idolfree,

Peace be upon you,

What do you see as the purpose of the 14 initials?

I know SHM well enough to answer this for him, their mathematical properties, I think the people at submission.org believe they are somehow linked with the year the end of the earth occurs as well, go here to see some of their articles on the mathematic properties http//www.submission.org/miracle/

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Idris,

Thanks for the help. I figured thats where this was heading.

I would like to ask the following, since when did they become "initials"?

There is no "PERIOD " seperating thes letters. If there is a period it is man made. So they would be connected letters, not initials.

Further, how do we connect these words to mathematical properties? The God syas that these words are signs, not mathematical properties.

But I am most concerned with how they came to be initials.

Satan_Hates_Me

Peace be upon you,

What do you see as the purpose of the 14 initials?

base on context of surronding verse, it seem it is related to the 'end of the world' in verse 1585. Also they are proof/signs of the Koran as GOD scripture (101, 121, 131). So the 14 initials are proof/sign of the Koran divine authorship and a sign/proof of the 'end of the world.'

Why a sign of the 'end of the world'? From verse 1561 down, the context of the surah is 'people rejecting the messengers send to them' and after that GOD deliever the judgement (destroying the community). GOD tells us this is the system (1513, 1576).
Then in verse 1585 GOD says "We did not create the heavens and the earth, and everything between them, except for a specific purpose. The end of the world will come." It is like saying that this system will be apply to mankind as a whole.
Then GOD says "We have given you the seven pairs, and the great Quran." this means, that messenger and the warming of the 'end of the world' has been given, so next is the judgement.
Then GOD say, "and do not be saddened." Which to me mean 'dont be sadden by this fact of the end of the world.' Then GOD says "We will deal with the dividers, They accept the Quran only partially." This means people who accept the Koran yet reject this sign (the seven pairs).

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

The word "quran" is not the title of any book.

Once this is understood, the 19 trial will be shown for what it is.

Satan_Hates_Me

Peace be upon you,
The word "quran" is not the title of any book.
Once this is understood, the 19 trial will be shown for what it is.

that is an baseless issue and argument. 'the reading' (as you translated) is a book (6114, 2951). It is a tangible scripture (22, 253). Once you stop denying this, the 19 miracle will be show for what it is.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

idolfree1 wrote
Peace be upon you,
The word "quran" is not the title of any book.
Once this is understood, the 19 trial will be shown for what it is.

that is an baseless issue and argument. 'the reading' (as you translated) is a book (6114, 2951).

Sorry brother, al kitaab is not the same as al quran.

al kitaab is this ever unfolding book of the life we are experiencing, which is explained in detail by the God's reading. When we move to the next phase of life, we will be given this ever unfolding bok in either our right handa or left hands.

It is a tangible scripture (22, 253).

The ever unfolding book of this life is indeed tangible, we experience it all the time.

Once you stop denying this, the 19 miracle will be show for what it is.

The word miracle does not appear anywhere in the reading. "thier number" is a trial for those without faith.

Peace to you.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

Why do we need to know when the end of the world is coming? All we are told to do is have faith in the ending, which is the effect of all causes.

We are being pointed to the cause and effect of the laws of the universe.

Satan_Hates_Me

The ever unfolding book of this life is indeed tangible, we experience it all the time.

it is very difficult to debate with someone who view everything symbolic. Nothing is tanigble in their views.

I guess you view God as symbolic too?
Is he tangilbe, physical, real, or a symbolic referene of laws that govern?

Satan_Hates_Me

What aout the world, is it symbolic as well?