Quraanites or whatever...
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Salaaman Emil,
Oh Allahu Ahad! Do you live there? MashaAllah. You are really really really very very very lucky bro. I love to be in such places to be a nature guy yes
Move....you are making me depressed. Some pics from my surroundings.
Move? You mean, you want to move there? I would love to, but how? P
MashaAllah, very great!
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam harris,
lol, looks like my suggestions were not helpful afterall..... hmm hmmmmm, lets see wat do we do nw......
there's only one thing left to do---watch the discovery channel..
peace bro.
Wow.. what a great idea. yay Why I did not think of it? brickwall
Wait.... tempt
Watching the discovery channel while still sitting in full of pollution? hmm
Haann... but atleast I could feel that I am a nature guy while watching the discovery channel rotfl
Mohammed M. Khan
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Salaaman Emil,
Oh Allahu Ahad! Do you live there? MashaAllah. You are really really really very very very lucky bro. I love to be in such places to be a nature guy yes
Move? You mean, you want to move there? I would love to, but how? P
MashaAllah, very great!
Mohammed M. KhanSalaam Mohammed
I haven't read all what you write, no coffee yet. But what is very apparent even without coffee is that we are yet again Lost in Translation. In my version of the Quran surah 568 does not say "Oh people of the book" but "Followers of older revelations", clearly turning towards the jews and christians and not muslims.
S?g "Ni st?r inte p? grund, efterf?ljare av ?ldre tiders uppenbarelser (google translate it), s? l?nge ni inte f?ljer Tora och Evangeliet liksom det som er Herre har uppenbarat f?r er." Men det som din Herre har uppenbarat f?r dig g?r helt s?kert m?nga av dem ?nnu ?vermodigare och f?rh?rdar dem i deras otro. Men s?rj inte ?ver f?rnekarna!
Frustrating this is....Same book, two very different meanings.
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Salaaman Emil,
Salaam Mohammed
I haven't read all what you write, no coffee yet. But what is very apparent even without coffee is that we are yet again Lost in Translation. In my version of the Quran surah 568 does not say "Oh people of the book" but "Followers of older revelations", clearly turning towards the jews and christians and not muslims.
S?g "Ni st?r inte p? grund, efterf?ljare av ?ldre tiders uppenbarelser (google translate it), s? l?nge ni inte f?ljer Tora och Evangeliet liksom det som er Herre har uppenbarat f?r er." Men det som din Herre har uppenbarat f?r dig g?r helt s?kert m?nga av dem ?nnu ?vermodigare och f?rh?rdar dem i deras otro. Men s?rj inte ?ver f?rnekarna!
Frustrating this is....Same book, two very different meanings.
Please read what I wrote, inshaAllah, you may understand it.
In Arabic it says "Qul yaa ahl-alKitaabi lastum...." 568 that means
Qul = Tell
Yaa = 'O'
Ahl = People/family
AlKitaab = The BookQul Yaa AhlaAlKitaab = Tell O People of The Book.
If you notice, 568 talks about Torah, Injeel and WHAT WAS SENT DOWN TO YOU FROM YOUR LORD.
568 Say O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to YOU from your Lord. And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.
When it is said "...and what was sent down to YOU from your Lord..." that clearly means "...O people of the Book..." also include us.
You can also check your translation for the word "Aha-alKitaab" in 370, 371, 372, 398, 399, 3110, 3113, etc...
Hope this may help you inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth. pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Asalaam Alaykum,
There is a whole discussion here, I read it with high interest, lots of things surely are true. About the prophets and the messengers I believe we don't have to make a difference between them, we only have to be grateful, for the message they all brought The MESSAGE is what is really important and they all told the same message There is only ONE GOD and we have to worship that ONE GOD and not the messengers! NONE of the messengers themselves ever said we have to worship them but all makes us clear to worship GOD ALONE.
Surely the early books are corrupted, at least the Thora and the Bible, that is why GOD revealed his last book the Quran! This doesn't mean you can't read the Thora and the Bible, because you can check with the Quran. Yes the Bible is written many years after Jesus death and so are the hadiths... that is why I prefer to follow the Quran and not the hadiths because all of them are also written about 200 years after Mohammad died and so many of them are also corrupted or fabricated. And ultimately GOD himself is our guidance.... we only have to learn to hear, see, feel, understand his 'personal' guidance to all of us!
And than the discussion of 2,3,5 prayers/salat a day/night to accomplish..... the goal of prayers is to worship GOD, to remember him, to praise him, to thank him, to ask him forgiveness, to ask him guidance .... Prayers are a HELP to accomplish what we have to do..... and that is LIVE every second of our life in Knowledge, remembering..... of that.... in fact our whole life has to be a prayer, a worship. Do you need a ritual like bowing and prostrating to remember that? Sure, doing this with your whole heart, is surely good. If you bow and prostrate in full conscience...; it is great.... unfortunately I am sure many do this 'ritual' as a habit. And when you pray, rather let the heart without words than the words and rituals without heart! I don't remember who of you posted the article over meditation. I knew that, it is a real good article. In the same reasoning, do you know that prostrating helps the body clean from the overload of electrical submersion we all have in our life? So, there is a hidden and unknown reason in things God asks us to do? Standing bare-foot helps you better grounding and also get rid of this same electrical overload (some shoesole would prevent that) Sure.... HE IS the ALL-KNOWING and He is the only one who can read in your heart, He is the only one who can judge your intentions... -
Salaaman Emil,
Oh Allahu Ahad! Do you live there? MashaAllah. You are really really really very very very lucky bro. I love to be in such places to be a nature guy yes
Move? You mean, you want to move there? I would love to, but how?
MashaAllah, very great!
Mohammed M. KhanYah I know I am lucky. But it is not all green and red roses. A coin has two sides....
To continue
548 in your version "the book" is singular, whereas in my Swedish version it is plural "the books" making the reader think of the Torah and the bible. Same as in 568 "people of the book" is not at all written like that but "people of the older scriptures" making it impossible to think there any others included but the jews and christians. I have pasted the arab version which I believe was used to translate to Swedish. Can you see any difference than from your arab version? This is quite important since I was under the impression that the only translation to Swedish was correct, it has all the "stamps of approval" from the (right) muslim scholar institutes. I also translated from Swedish to English to you can read and see the difference between arab-english and arab-swedish
Mohammed, we have shown you this Quran with the truth, which acknowledges that of older time scriptures and whos purpose it is to watch over them. Judge between them who follow the older scriptures on a basis of what Allah has shown for you. And do not give in to their wishes that goes against the truth you have been shown. For each and everyone of you we have given a law and a way of living. If God wanted he would have made you all One, but it was his will to test you with what he has given you. Therefore, compete between eachother in doing good! To Allah you will all return and he will inform you about all you disagreed about.
Say You do not stand on firm ground, followers of older time scriptures, as long as you do not follow in everything the Torah and Gospel as well as what your Lord now has shown you. But that what your Lord has shown you Mohammed makes probably many of them even more overcourageous and harden them in their unfaithfulness. But don't mourn over the deniers!
Basically the Swedish version makes you think that Jews and Christians must use the Quran to find out what went wrong with their Torah and bible. It does not state anywhere that we muslims must
Another interesting thing which I saw just now.
Swedish version of 52 "Followers! Do not sacrilege those rituals and symbols God has put forth......
Does the original text have "rituals" ?????
I understand what you are saying Mohammed. Since my arab is equal to zip, Please help
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We're here pay no attention to the 'technicality' of praying
There are million ways of 'praying'...
Feel free to pray as you like.. the sunni's way, shiite's way, christians ways, catholics way, judaism way, buddhist way, your own way etc.. etc.. etc..Salam / Peace
Assalamu Alaikum.
There is a technical problem if someone starts praying however he/she wishes.
First of all, there is no ayath that says that one can pray salat however he/she may wish.Secondly, there is an Ayat where just after commanding for salat and zakat, Allah says obey the messenger, that you may attain mercy.
Allah says 2456
Translated by Edip-Layth
Hold the contact prayer (Salat) and contribute towards betterment (Zakat), and obey the messenger, that you may attain mercy.a) The Prophet must have obeyed Salat. Right?
b) Whatever he did, did according to Allah's command--WAHYc) It means that He did not have the authority to invent any method to Pray Salat, nor could he follow any other method. Moreover, he could not even pray salat however he wished.
He had to follow only what is inspired to him from Allah.
d) So, however did he pray Salat was definitely guided by Allah.
e) That guidance dictating how to pray Salat was not recorded in the Quran.
f) Allah commanded us to follow the messengerIt will be easy to understand if you can visualize yourself among one of the Sahabis of Prophet Muhammad (SM).
Suppose that you, one of the Sahabis, just have read or heard an ayat commanding for salat, without any description of the method, what would you do? You must think that you are not the one, and there are many who would feel the same problem, right? All of you have one more order, and that is Follow the messenger.
Now tell me what would you do?
You must not feel any confusion. Would you?
Please read
2454
Translated by Edip-Layth
Say "Obey God, and obey the messenger." But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. If you obey him, you will be guided. The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.
By the way, It is very interesting to see that in the Sura Shuara, there are examples of several Prophets and Messengers (26105-108, 26123-126, 26141-144, 26160-163, 26176-179) regarding the messengers' being rejected by the people to whom the were sent by Allah. In every case, the messenger told the people to follow him.
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Sunni's, please tell me something. If "salat" means prayer, then what's "dua'"?
Assalamu Alaikum,
Brother/Sister, whatever the meaning of Salat be, Muhammad (sm) had to obey the command for it. And whatever method he applied, and whatever meaning he took, to obey the command must be from Allah. Because Muhammad (sm) was allowed to follow anything other than WAHY . Now you see, Those were not included in the Quran. However Allah commanded us to follow the messenger.
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Assalamu Alaikum,
Brother/Sister, whatever the meaning of Salat be, Muhammad (sm) had to obey the command for it. And whatever method he applied, and whatever meaning he took, to obey the command must be from Allah. Because Muhammad (sm) was allowed to follow anything other than WAHY . Now you see, Those were not included in the Quran. However Allah commanded us to follow the messenger.
But how you know how Mohamad peace be upon him prayed,
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Salaaman Emil,
Sorry for late reply.
548 in your version "the book" is singular, whereas in my Swedish version it is plural "the books" making the reader think of the Torah and the bible. Same as in 568 "people of the book" is not at all written like that but "people of the older scriptures" making it impossible to think there any others included but the jews and christians. I have pasted the arab version which I believe was used to translate to Swedish. Can you see any difference than from your arab version? This is quite important since I was under the impression that the only translation to Swedish was correct, it has all the "stamps of approval" from the (right) muslim scholar institutes.
No ways, your Swedish translation is totally corrupted bro. Did you check the references that I gave you for 'Ahla-AlKitaab'? How is that translated in other places?
AlKitaab is not plural, it is singular. And AlKitaab was given to all the Prophets. Please read the following
683
684
685
686
687
688
689683 And such was Our argument that We gave Abraham over his people; We raise the degree of whom We please. Your Lord is Wise, Knowledgeable.
684 And We granted him Isaac and Jacob, both of whom We guided; and Noah We guided from before; and from his progeny is David, and Solomon, and Job, and Joseph, and Moses, and Aaron. It is such that We recompense the good doers.
685 And Zachariah and John, and Jesus, and Elias; all were from the upright.
686 And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot; and each We have preferred over the worlds.
687 And from their fathers and their progeny and their brothers We have also chosen; and We guided them to a straight path.
688 Such is the guidance of Allah, He guides with it whom He pleases of His servants. And if they set up partners, then all that they had worked would fall away from them.
689 Those to whom We have given the Book, and the law, and the prophethood, if they reject it, then We will entrust it to a people who will not reject it.You can notice in 689 that "The Book" was given to all the above mentioned Prophets. There is no "The BookS"
To understand what exactly AlKitaab please follow
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601702.msg268251#msg268251I also translated from Swedish to English to you can read and see the difference between arab-english and arab-swedish
Mohammed, we have shown you this Quran with the truth, which acknowledges that of older time scriptures and whos purpose it is to watch over them. Judge between them who follow the older scriptures on a basis of what Allah has shown for you. And do not give in to their wishes that goes against the truth you have been shown. For each and everyone of you we have given a law and a way of living. If God wanted he would have made you all One, but it was his will to test you with what he has given you. Therefore, compete between eachother in doing good! To Allah you will all return and he will inform you about all you disagreed about.
Where did you get "Mohammed" , shown, this Quran, older time scriptures from?
Oh my goodness, the above translation is horrible. Please look at the translation below for 548
548
548 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what Allah has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and if Allah had willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To Allah you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.
Note I have taken all this translations from http//free-minds.org/quran/PM/5
Say You do not stand on firm ground, followers of older time scriptures, as long as you do not follow in everything the Torah and Gospel as well as what your Lord now has shown you. But that what your Lord has shown you Mohammed makes probably many of them even more overcourageous and harden them in their unfaithfulness. But don't mourn over the deniers!
568
568 Say O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord. And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.
Basically the Swedish version makes you think that Jews and Christians must use the Quran to find out what went wrong with their Torah and bible. It does not state anywhere that we muslims must
Actually, it is otherwise
Another interesting thing which I saw just now.
Swedish version of 52 "Followers! Do not sacrilege those rituals and symbols God has put forth......
Does the original text have "rituals" ?????
Rituals???
52
52 O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of Allah, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Restricted Sanctuary; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when it is permitted for you, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Restricted Temple; make you aggress. And help each other in piety and righteousness, and do not help each other in sin and aggression. And be aware of Allah, for the retribution of Allah is severe.
I understand what you are saying Mohammed. Since my arab is equal to zip, Please help
Brother, don't you worry, Allah is always there to help us all, inshaAllah.
Follow three steps , inshaAllah you will not find any difficulty if you sincerely follow them
1- Ask Allah to help and guide you towards the true understanding of His message.
2- Check each aayat/verse in as many translations as you can to get the near correct meaning .
3- Check the same word in other places in AlQuraan.
Hope this may help you brother, inshaAllah. If you find any difficulty in anything, please feel free to ask, me and may others on this forum are ready to give possible help inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
Wa Alaikum Salaam Anti,
Assalamu Alaikum.
There is a technical problem if someone starts praying however he/she wishes.
First of all, there is no ayath that says that one can pray salat however he/she may wish.Secondly, there is an Ayat where just after commanding for salat and zakat, Allah says obey the messenger, that you may attain mercy.
a) The Prophet must have obeyed Salat. Right?
b) Whatever he did, did according to Allah's command--WAHYc) It means that He did not have the authority to invent any method to Pray Salat, nor could he follow any other method. Moreover, he could not even pray salat however he wished.
He had to follow only what is inspired to him from Allah.
d) So, however did he pray Salat was definitely guided by Allah.
e) That guidance dictating how to pray Salat was not recorded in the Quran.I agree but the point e)
Are you sure Salaat was not recorded in AlQuraan? What do you say about the following
1689
1689 And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Book as a clarification for all things, and a guidance and a mercy and good tidings to those who have submitted.
Does all things mean 'excluding Salaat'?
nope cause,
638
638 And there is not a creature on the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, except they belong to nations like you belong. We did not leave anything out of the Book; then to their Lord they will be gathered.
f) Allah commanded us to follow the messenger
It will be easy to understand if you can visualize yourself among one of the Sahabis of Prophet Muhammad (SM).
Suppose that you, one of the Sahabis, just have read or heard an ayat commanding for salat, without any description of the method, what would you do? You must think that you are not the one, and there are many who would feel the same problem, right? All of you have one more order, and that is Follow the messenger.
Now tell me what would you do?
You must not feel any confusion. Would you?
Where did you get 'FOLLOW' from, you quoted above to 'OBEY' the messenger.
Please read
2454
Translated by Edip-Layth
Say "Obey God, and obey the messenger." But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. If you obey him, you will be guided. The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.
By the way, It is very interesting to see that in the Sura Shuara, there are examples of several Prophets and Messengers (26105-108, 26123-126, 26141-144, 26160-163, 26176-179) regarding the messengers' being rejected by the people to whom the were sent by Allah. In every case, the messenger told the people to follow him.
Again you quoted the translation of 2454 as 'Obey the messenger' but again you wrote 'Follow him' in your last line.
Please decide first, are you saying we have 'to follow the messenger' or 'to obey the messenger'? Then we will discuss further, inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Wa Alaikum Salaam Anti,
I agree but the point e)Are you sure Salaat was not recorded in AlQuraan? What do you say about the following
1689
1689 And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Book as a clarification for all things, and a guidance and a mercy and good tidings to those who have submitted.
Does all things mean 'excluding Salaat'?
nope cause,
638
638 And there is not a creature on the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, except they belong to nations like you belong. We did not leave anything out of the Book; then to their Lord they will be gathered.
Where did you get 'FOLLOW' from, you quoted above to 'OBEY' the messenger.
Again you quoted the translation of 2454 as 'Obey the messenger' but again you wrote 'Follow him' in your last line.
Please decide first, are you saying we have 'to follow the messenger' or 'to obey the messenger'? Then we will discuss further, inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path pr
Mohammed M. KhanNice one mmkham but the book is Al Quran or the one wich is with God hmm
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Salaam Afridi,
Thank you bro,
Nice one mmkham but the book is Al Quran or the one wich is with God hmm
mmkham hmm
Anyway, to understand what exactly AlKitaab is, please follow
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601702.msg268251#msg268251May Allah guide us all towards the Truth. pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Assalamu Alaikum,
Brother/Sister, whatever the meaning of Salat be, Muhammad (sm) had to obey the command for it. And whatever method he applied, and whatever meaning he took, to obey the command must be from Allah. Because Muhammad (sm) was allowed to follow anything other than WAHY . Now you see, Those were not included in the Quran. However Allah commanded us to follow the messenger.
Correction Because Muhammad (sm) was not allowed to follow anything other than WAHY
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But how you know how Mohamad peace be upon him prayed,
Assalamu Alaikum.
Brother, I belive the transmission source of Al-QURAN. Whoever transmitted the QURAN to other person knew how important is how Mohammad (SM) prayed.
If he was honest in transmitting Quran, he must have transmitted the method of Salat also.If I believe in the source, I must believe both Al-Quran, and the method of Salat.
Thank you.
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Wa Alaikum Salaam Anti,
I agree but the point e)Are you sure Salaat was not recorded in AlQuraan? What do you say about the following
1689
1689 And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Book as a clarification for all things, and a guidance and a mercy and good tidings to those who have submitted.
Does all things mean 'excluding Salaat'?
nope cause,
638
638 And there is not a creature on the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, except they belong to nations like you belong. We did not leave anything out of the Book; then to their Lord they will be gathered.
Dear brother, Allah did not leave out Salat & the method of Salat from the book. HE just included the method into the command "obey/follow messenger".
Many commands have been included in that command.
I belive the transmission source of Al-QURAN. Whoever transmitted the QURAN to other person knew how important is how Mohammad (SM) prayed. If he was honest in transmitting Quran, he must have honestly transmitted the method of Salat also. And the first generation transmitted Quran and what they learnt from Muhammad (sm) to the next generation as a daily practice as commanded by the Quran. It, then, must be a part of their culture. You can understand by comparing the views of Shias and Sunnis about Salat. They disagree in so many points. But they do not disagree in the basic points of traditional Salat. Somebody in this forum called it visual transmission. I liked the term.
If I believe in the source, I must believe both Al-Quran, and the method of Salat.
(You know, Al-Quran could have been manipulated. Who told you it was not? I can tell you that somebody has changed some ayats (mention any) and then he has injected the ayats that say that Allah's ayats cannot be changed, or Allah will preserve this Ayats. However, I know that this impossible. Because Al-Quran have been transmitted not only as a book, but also as a culture.)Thank you.
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Dear brother, Allah did not leave out Salat & the method of Salat from the book. HE just included the method into the command "obey/follow messenger".
Brother, if you take a close look at 638, you will notice the two words "AlKitaab" and "Shai-in" .
638
638 And there is not a creature on the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, except they belong to nations like you belong. We did not leave anything out of the Book; then to their Lord they will be gathered.
It means, NO THING IS LEFT OUT OF THE BOOK. Not as you say brother, but EVERYTHING is mentioned in THE BOOK.
Many commands have been included in that command.
BTW, how can you obey Prophet Mohammed now? If you say through hadeeth, then actually you will be obeying Bukhari not Prophet Mohammed.
I belive the transmission source of Al-QURAN. Whoever transmitted the QURAN to other person knew how important is how Mohammad (SM) prayed. If he was honest in transmitting Quran, he must have honestly transmitted the method of Salat also. And the first generation transmitted Quran and what they learnt from Muhammad (sm) to the next generation as a daily practice as commanded by the Quran. It, then, must be a part of their culture. You can understand by comparing the views of Shias and Sunnis about Salat. They disagree in so many points. But they do not disagree in the basic points of traditional Salat. Somebody in this forum called it visual transmission. I liked the term.
If I believe in the source, I must believe both Al-Quran, and the method of Salat.
(You know, Al-Quran could have been manipulated. Who told you it was not? I can tell you that somebody has changed some ayats (mention any) and then he has injected the ayats that say that Allah's ayats cannot be changed, or Allah will preserve this Ayats. However, I know that this impossible. Because Al-Quran have been transmitted not only as a book, but also as a culture.)I don't take it a source as you do. But I believe that transmitters are NOT responsible to deliver AlQuraan correctly, but Allah does.
159
159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
One may ask what is Zikr?
2150
2150 And this is a blessed reminder which We have sent down. Will you be deniers of it?
I don't know any aayat about the source being protected or hadeeth or any other book is protected by Allah.
2170
2170 And when they are told Follow what Allah has sent down, they say No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing! What if their fathers did not comprehend anything and were not guided?
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path. pr
Mohammed M. Khan