The prophet Muhammad WAS Illiterate
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What is your source that Khadijah was Christian. It was her uncle who was a convert. Not herself. She was a pagan before believing in the message of the prophet Muhammad (Godbless him).
Peace Anwar,
From where you derived permission to make such an authoritative statement?
I say, on authority given by Allah, that she was a 100 percent true believer before the advent of Qur'aan. How would you refute this statement?
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Maybe i'm wrong, but that seems like the logical conclusion to me. That she was inclined to respect the gods of her tribe, even if she didn't physically worship them. Maybe she wasn't a pagan, maybe she was agnostic. I admit that was a bit authoritative. What I really meant to say is that she wasn't a Jew or a Christian adn would have been inclined to her tribes religion, as Muhammad before he was prophet. But again it is very possible that they didn't actively worship those gods and had doubts but believed in God which would make them agnostics or hunafaa' i.e. rightly/correctly inclined from a Quranic perspective.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salaam Anwar,
Peace,
Peace,
I'll admit that I rejected that the prophet Muhammad was illiterate first because I thought it was an insult, and even a trick to make the Quran SEEM more miraculous.
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And i recant (I seem to be recanting on a lot of things lately when I revisit them). the prophet was illiterate. Here is why I believe this nowBrother, I would like to put forward some aayaats inshaAllah, it may be of help.
278
278 And among them are ummiyoon who do not know the Book except by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
Ummiyoon = Who do not know Al-Kitaab
320
320 If they debate with you, then say I have submitted myself to Allah, as well as those who follow me. And say to those who have received the Book and AlUmmiyeen Have you submitted? If they have submitted then they are guided, and if they turn away, then you are only to deliver, and Allah is Seer over the servants.
2948
2948 And you were not reciting any Book before this, nor were you writing one down by your hand. In that case, the doubters would have had reason.
4252
4252 And thus, We inspired to you a revelation of Our command. You did not know what was the Book, nor what was faith. Yet, We made this a light to guide whoever We wish from among Our servants. Surely, you guide to a straight path.
To know what Al-Kitaab is, please follow http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601702.0
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path. pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Bro Khan,
I know what kitaab is from how the Classical Arabic language uses it not from your (or any one else's) personal or imaginative "quranic" interpretations that don't take into account how the language itself used these words as a whole. The prophet was illiterate and did not study under teachings or any teacher before the Quran. That is what is meant by he did not know kitaab. Umiy can be used in the sense of illiterate or in the sense of being ignorant of certain teachings and having never studied under anyone. Al-kitaab also definitively means Mosaic teachings, i.e. the Torah. Which for some includes all Judaic teachings, for some the old testament, for some the pentatauch and of course the true Torah which are the actual words of Moses in the Pentatauch and Talmud and the Targums.
Godbless,
AnwarGodbless,
Anwar -
Salaam Anwar,
I know what kitaab is from how the Classical Arabic language uses it not from your (or any one else's) personal or imaginative "quranic" interpretations that don't take into account how the language itself used these words as a whole. The prophet was illiterate and did not study under teachings or any teacher before the Quran. That is what is meant by he did not know kitaab. Umiy can be used in the sense of illiterate or in the sense of being ignorant of certain teachings and having never studied under anyone. Al-kitaab also definitively means Mosaic teachings, i.e. the Torah. Which for some includes all Judaic teachings, for some the old testament, for some the pentatauch and of course the true Torah which are the actual words of Moses in the Pentatauch and Talmud and the Targums.
Brother, no matter whether you agree with someone's view or not. But one thing I will tell you that ask Allah for the true guidance before you conclude anything or any meaning of any word from AlQuraan.
We are nowhere without the help and guidance from Allah.
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path. pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Peace,
I will not consult the Quran for the meanings of 'min' 'wa' '3an' or 'fee' and I will not consult the Quran for the meanings of any other word it uses. I will consult sources for the Classical Arabic language for the meanings that any word any Classical Arabic speaker or book uses and then I will make conclusions about the messages of that book from reading that book through the meanings of the language it was written in. To do otherwise is to invent fanciful meanings under the guise of consulting the book.
Godbless,
Anwar -
The Quran expects its readers to already KNOW the meaning of the Arabic words it uses. As everybook expects its readers to already know the meanings of the words it uses. The only book that does not is a dicionary and even it expects the reader to know the language, it just simplifies or explains words using other words it already expects the reader to know. Do not expect to learn the meanings of Classical Arabic words from the Quran. It can be used as proof to confirm an already known meaning, but it cannot be used to define any of its words. The only time this can be used is if a book intentionally and blatantly re-defines a word or invents a new word and then blatantly defines it.
Godbless,
Anwar -
I will only comment on Wakas' post. I don't want to waste my time on people who already have their minds made up. Yes Wakas, it opens up the fact possibility that the last prophet was illiterate and unlearned. If we take the fact that he didn't know kitaab in any form, meaning any sort of studying, oral or writing then we must conclude that not only was he unlearned in religious scripture he was also unlearned in writing, and hence illiterate.
Godbless,
AnwarDear Anwar, your annoyance with me is justified to a certain degree. At the time we both knew what we were talking, but did not understand each other?s point of view. Additionally, I thought that the principles about language, I have discovered were likely enough to understand the book which understandably, you were not picking up either. In addition, I was trying to be lazy to learn Arabic Grammar in detail. But thanks to you, I did try to learn Grammar and it most certainly is, also needed. Not to just understand Quran, but most importantly to understand misunderstandings in Quranic translations. So thank you again, and best of wishes to you, in your quest.
Peace,
Badar
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Peace,
I will not consult the Quran for the meanings of 'min' 'wa' '3an' or 'fee' and I will not consult the Quran for the meanings of any other word it uses. I will consult sources for the Classical Arabic language for the meanings that any word any Classical Arabic speaker or book uses and then I will make conclusions about the messages of that book from reading that book through the meanings of the language it was written in. To do otherwise is to invent fanciful meanings under the guise of consulting the book.
Godbless,
AnwarPrace Anwar,
But what will be your "Base/Reference" book for arriving at 100% conviction?
And can you find for me in the sources for the Classical Arabic language an explanation as to why preposition is written in two different styles
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0001.%20Pronouns%20and%20Prepositions/Prepositions/Aen%20with%20Ain%20from/2.gif
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0001.%20Pronouns%20and%20Prepositions/Prepositions/Aen%20with%20Ain%20from/6.gifBut
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Mazhar,
I can't see the text there. But if you are talking about writing conventions. Consult a book on Arabic writing conventions. Many times this can be found in a book either dedicated to writing conventions or in a book like Wright's who goes into much of that in the beginning of his book.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salaam progod
Nice journey towards truth, I appreciate. May Allah give you further strength in your mission. Your writing God bless him with Muhammad tells me that a new light is opening up to you.
However few Questions
Muhammad Peace is upon him traded for Khadija, so how was it possible to handle a business even a small one (which was not a small one as records show us) without having basic know how about numbers and other subjects prevailing at that time, he had to travel a lot and far away he could not remember all that in his mind and than tell it to khadija on return?
The Quran and hadith literature is full of statements that encourage learning and writing, How is it possible that Muhammad peace is upon him will not follow what he was saying?
some one wrote
For me that is not a very important question since Muhammad's illiteracy doesn't prove anything. The famous classical Greek poet Homer was blind and hence couldn't read or write either. But he composed one of the most famous pieces of literature. -
Peace,
As for the two seemingly different appearances of '3an'. One has a written sukoon over it, one does not. If 3an is followed by an alif that can be elides as in 'al' it will take a kasrah. 3rd person female past tenses do this too. As well, often tiimes no sukoon is written, and the way it is pronounces is presumed to be understood.
As for the last prophet being illiterate as a trader. Illiteracy comes in different levels. One can know numbers and still be illiterate. Also illiterate people are not stupid and some have great memories and even nacks for telling stories. All I can say is that being intelligent and having a nack for trading and a good memory is is what will help one become a good trader, not being literate. Go around the world to countries who have a high number of illiterate individuals and I'm sure you will fidn some intelligent folks who can trade or do other things despite being illiterate. As for recieving the Quran. Once he recieved it and recieved the commands to 'read' and to seek knowledge I am sure he learned how to read. All I am saying is that before he recieved the Quran he WAS indeed illiterate and had not studied under anyone to learn poetry or scripture. He may however still have had a grasp of basic numbers and may have through his interactions, necessity and through his own thinking have been very proficient at arithemtic principles. Even illiterate people are capable of this. Just because you cannot read does not mean that you cannot speak, memorize, count or solve problems.
Godbless,
Anwar -
As for the two seemingly different appearances of '3an'. One has a written sukoon over it, one does not. If 3an is followed by an alif that can be elides as in 'al' it will take a kasrah. 3rd person female past tenses do this too. As well, often tiimes no sukoon is written, and the way it is pronounces is presumed to be understood.
Consultation of Grand Qur'aan reveals that a vowel-Kasra is added at all such places where it occurs with the following word on its boundary which initiates with a vowel-less consonant. And in this way the cluster of two vowel-less consonants is broken.
In Grand Qur'aan it has always have a Jezm when it is followed by a vowelled Hamza, to ensure audibility of delicate hamza for the listener.
No jezm is placed when it is partially assimilated with the following Noon and Meem leaving a nasal sound of Noon, and a small Meem is added upon it when followed by a word starting with "Ba".
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Peace,
I skimmed through it just now Wakas. In response to that all I can say is that I never claimed that the prophet Muhammad (God bless him) stayed illiterate after the Quran and I don't think the Quran supports that. Once he recieved the revelation he learned to read and write. The prophet effetively stopped being ummy in all of its senses after having recieved the Quran. He was given a scripture and he learned to read. When he recieved his prophethood he was ummy however. First came the revelation, which he gave to the people piece-meal, as commanded. I beileve he was given it all at once, and was commanded to reveal it bit by bit. In the meantime I believe that he followed God's command and learned to read and write after he recieved the book.
Godbless,
Anwar -
I'll admit that I rejected that the prophet Muhammad was illiterate first because I thought it was an insult, and even a trick to make the Quran SEEM more miraculous. I found my justification in 255, as I understood this word to mean that someone personally writes something down. The word is iktataba and it has reflexive meaning. However, not reflexive enought to disclude a meaning that involves someone else. Anwar
Where did you find this sort of perception about Form-VIII verb? The meaning of partnership in such verbs is conveyed by having more than one subject. In the Ayat there is only one subject of this verb. And Form-VIII verbs indicate more effort on the part of the subject in reflexive act. And please read the following sentence of the Ayat which further confirms that he himself wrote.
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Peace,
I wish I could consult my grammar book to possibly provide some more evidences for this meaning. But alas I am without it. All I have is lisanul-arab online at the al-baheth site currently. And lisanul-arab doesn't go into all of the connoations of ifta3ala. There is another site called al-fasaha which I have yet to consult. As for the whole kasrah after the noon of 3an, Mazhar that sounds like you are also including qalqalah, which is common in Quranic recitation and I'm sure some recitations of poems. It is not necessary, but often employed. I'm referring to your explaination that dealt with consonant clusters. I was giving the specific reason for the kasrah being used with 3an. Being a preposition, it will be used where it encounters an elidable alif, as in any definite artricle or ibn as well as a few verbal forms, like istaf3ala or infa3ala. That is where you will find a kasrah on the noon of 3an. Mazhar, you gave a lot of jargon that the inquierer may not have been able to understand. You should try to use multiple terms. Like jazm and sukoon being the same, etc. I try not to use terms like jazm, idghaam, idh-haar or other jargon terms. It is best to explain these things in plain English and then offer the jargon for it. I admit i know alot of the rules and not all of the jargon, and that's because knowing the rule is more important (in my mind) than knowing the jargon.
Godbless,
Anwar
