Refutation of these claims anyone?
-
There is this thread going on now.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601553.msg272837#msg272837
There also follow some comments on this point several messages after.
Sister, do not be put off by things like that list of points. They are formulated so in order to corner muslims into speechlessness, at which at first they succeed.
There are several factors in those tatics of cornering.
-
Prejudice as to the meaning anything should have in the Qur'an. They do not know anything about wha the Qur'an really says, but they do know that they can use the Qur'an (rather its translation) to apparently make it say the most damning things. That is not reality, that is a tactic. Bear it in mind.
-
The Qur'an is difficult to translate. The first translations of Qur'an to western languages were made by orientalists already prejudiced
-
against islam, and
-
by a firm belief in male's authority over woman then current and undisputed in the West, where women were treated as minors and lacked legal capacity (that is why feminism arose). That is, they projected their own ideas on the Qur'an and superimposed them on it.
Those translations are based on their own conception of what the Qur'an should say not on any attempt to penetrate into the spirituality of a religion they considered false and disrespected.
- Much of traditional muslim thinking and jurisprudence deviated from the principles set in the Qur'an, early, very early even, and Muslim male thinkers with time settled on a series of interpretations, many of them forced, of some ayas of the Qur'an so that they were made to uphold male superority and authority, whereas nothing in the Qur'an gives support to such conception and even it clearly states equality among all humans, also between the sexes.
Khadija, sister, do not worry. This is a long complex struggle to clean the Qur'an of accretions piled on it by muslims and non musims which cover its light. Do not be in a hurry or get uptight about those points. Do not let yourself to be cornered or forced to burst with whatever to fence them off. As a feminist and a muslim for most of my life I can tell you don't worry, the Qur'an is clean, pure, there aren't stereotypes nor sex roles in the Qur'an, but there has been and still there is a very committed effort to force them into it.
Be at peace, keep your calm, God is not on commission for male vanity, He is not against women or has a weakness for the males that He doesn't have for the women. He loves both and loves to be friends and companions.
God commands humankind to be conscious of the wombs. It says so in the same sentence as it says to be conscious of Allah. Read 4.1, it says it there. I do not know what it will say in the translations you may have at hand or whether or not you read Arabic. In Arabic, that is what it says. Do not worry if they tell you that what it means is to be conscious of blood relationships. Doesn't matter, there are other ways to mention blood relationships, but God chose to write that. And the people who put those idiotic 10 points of the list you mention obviously chose not to mention that sentence. This I mention just as an example of the manipulation the Qur'an is being subjected to. So take your time and relax, sister. Our religion is not in danger, Allah is still the Allpowerful, and lists of points only hurt those who shrink and fear.
I Think or hope other people will come up with more answers for you.
Salaam
-
-
-
This a very good INQUIRY and you are an excellent ENQUIRER
-
Thanks Huruf. Your post was really comforting. I am currently on chapter 15 of the Qur'an here on FM. I don't read Arabic yet but I plan on learning it.
I pray that Allah makes my faith firm.
Salaam and JazakAllah khair! handshake
Thank you for that link Wakas! It answered so many of my questions.
abdalquran, You all are going to be SICK of all my inquiries pretty soon! I have too many of them.
-
Salam Khadija,
I will try to go through the 10 points briefly
- A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a field.
The above statement is a distortion. 2222 regulates the sexual intercourse between a man and his wife, then 2223 gives licence that they enjoy each other as they wish (keeping in-mind 2222).
- Husbands are a degree above their wives.
The verse is speaking about divorce and gives the man the ability to override and cancel the divorce.
- A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female.
Because according to 434, men are responsible for their wives.
- A woman?s testimony counts half of a man?s testimony.
A woman?s testimony is equal to a man (and in the case of adultery accusation by the husband, it outweighs that of the man -24. Verse 2282 deals with financial transactions, and never gives less than equal status to the women, as on the day of testimony only 2 witnesses are required ? however, at the onset of witnessing the transaction, 2 women are called for to ensure that if one is unable to attend, then the other will take her place.
- A wife may remarry her ex?husband if and only if she marries another man and then this second man divorces her.
Correct, only in the case of three divorces as a lesson that God?s system is not to be played with.
- Slave?girls are sexual property for their male owners.
There is never any mention of ?slaves?. 424 deals with ?ma malakat aymanukum? (what your oaths possess) which is a betrothal between a man and woman.
- A man may be polygamous with up to four wives.
Only if three of them are the mothers of orphans whom he is taking under his protection (43).
- A husband may simply get rid of one of his undesirable wives.
Not sure how the link is made in this point with 4129. A man may get rid of his wife and a wife may get rid of her husband ? called a ?divorce?.
The Quran in Sura 4129 says- Husbands may hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives (quite apart from whether they actually are highhanded).
False. The word ?idrib? in 434 also carries the meaning of ?separate/leave?. And, since 434 is dealing with a man trying to reconcile with his wife who wants to leave him ? then separating from each other as a 3rd step is the correct meaning ? rather than abusing the Quran to mean ?smacking? which will ensure the departure of the wife!
- Mature men are allowed to marry prepubescent girls.
False. 654 speaks of the ?ida? (waiting period) for woman who have ceased to menstruate as 3 months, and ?those who did not menstruate and those already pregnant ? till they deliver?. A woman not menstruating in 654 is doing so because she is pregnant ? not because she is a kid!
Hope this helps.
-
Salaam Layth,
Thank you for your post. It has been extremely helpful. handshake
2458 O you who believe, let those who are maintained by your oaths, and those who have not yet attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times before the dawn contact prayer, and when you put off your attire from the noon time, and after the evening contact prayer. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
I'm guessing that pre-pubescents wouldn't need to request permission if they were married to the person.
Thanks again and jazakAllah khair!
-
That sarcastic remark above the nature of Khadija's ENQUIRY.
Btw, the word in 65/4 is 'nisaa'ikum' (grown women) not 'walidat' or 'banat' (which could refer to children). Glad to see your loyalty as a 'muslim woman' there, Khadija.
-
- A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a field.
The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2223 says
Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur?an, Oxford UP, 2004)
is the subject of speech/discussion- is the predicate, and is a prepositional phrase for the elided adjective of . What could be the elided adjective and the cause of using such descriptive word as metonym for wife--Relate it with earlier statement/injunction
When the land is refreshed and ploughed only then the seed is sown. The recepient's "point-location" of sex activity has unimbiguously been made clear to the frustration of perverts.
The similarity in depth of ploughing for lodging seed and the "adjustments of depth" in human's "field" might also be an interesting similarity.
-
- Husbands are a degree above their wives.
The Quran in Sura 2228 says
. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul A?La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur?an, vol. 1, p. 165)
and their husbands have in this first divorce greater right for taking them back if those husbands have decided to straighten/reconcile matters;
and for divorcee wives is a right like the one husbands have upon them in accordance with the known norms of the society; and husbands have priority/precedence once.
And Allah is Dominant, The Wise .
In married life, Divorce is allowed only twice at two different points in time. A right is being given to both husband and wife about decision to retain the relation on these two occasions. When a similar right is granted to two parties, it has to be laid down who will have priority/precedence in the excercise of that right. On first occasion of divorce, the precedence is given to him.
-
That sarcastic remark above the nature of Khadija's ENQUIRY.
Btw, the word in 65/4 is 'nisaa'ikum' (grown women) not 'walidat' or 'banat' (which could refer to children). Glad to see your loyalty as a 'muslim woman' there, Khadija.
I don't appreciate your sarcasm. I was honestly asking a question.
-
Salaam,
This site is really worrying me!
http//infidelsarecool.com/2008/01/11/top-10-quran-quotes-every-woman-must-see/
I am a muslim woman and I'm really shocked right now.
I understand points 8, 6, 4, 3, and 2. Can anyone help me understand the other points.
Thanks so much! You guys are amazing!
( (
4914,15. Hope you get the point.
Peace,
Khalil -
See www.Misconceptions-About-Islam.com
that helped me also. thank you so much!
-
That sarcastic remark above the nature of Khadija's ENQUIRY.
Btw, the word in 65/4 is 'nisaa'ikum' (grown women) not 'walidat' or 'banat' (which could refer to children). Glad to see your loyalty as a 'muslim woman' there, Khadija.
You ok bro? Woke up on the wrong side of the bed?
