dating
-
All I see is dating, without sex, to get to know the person. Once sex becomes involved, then you are married, wether you have had a ceremony or not.
idolfree-
if this is true, then what is fornication?
blue
I found this interesting. Traditional translations such as Yusuf, Shakir and Pikthal tend to use the word 'fornicate' in thier translations while Free-minds translation as well as Rashids use the word 'Adulatry' in its place. I did not find the word present in Rashids nor in Free-Minds translation. Perhaps the choice of words from the traditional translators was based on outside sources as well hadith ? This is my conclusion as of now.
Here's a link to all its appearences to check out
http//www.submission.org/quran/webqt.php?&indata=fornicat&t[]=1&t[]=2&t[]=3&t[]=4&t[]=5&t[]=6
pz
-
peace to all,
This is how I understand,
Marriage is something when Two person has agreed to share their life togather. All the witness and paperwork is to protect each others right and property by law and to ensure childrens rights.
And the "the right hand posses" might mean where 2 person loves each other in true form and wishes to live life togather but not much paper work such as marriage. It can be compared with the term "Pacs" if I am not mistaken. Something like official BF-GF where family and friends knows abt the relation. And I think there are also law here to protect each others right. Its verymuch practiced in Europe.
I think the sex thing is very personal and its between 2 persons agreement as only a person can decide with whome he or she can share their sexual life.
well this is my understanding.
peace
-
hmmm..... this is all very interesting. if true, it would certainly clear up a lot of things that question. for example- fornication is one of the 3 sins that is punishable by eternal hell. i may be ignorant, but it doesn't seem to be as big of a crime as tons of other sins i can think of. perhaps it acutally has to do with sexual crimes as a broad category- including adultery, rape, molestation, etc. any thoughts?
-
hmmm..... this is all very interesting. if true, it would certainly clear up a lot of things that question. for example- fornication is one of the 3 sins that is punishable by eternal hell. i may be ignorant, but it doesn't seem to be as big of a crime as tons of other sins i can think of. perhaps it acutally has to do with sexual crimes as a broad category- including adultery, rape, molestation, etc. any thoughts?
Peace bluerose
I never heared of three sins punishable by eternal hell, is there a verse(s) from the Quran that states this? Perhaps this is a belief ingrained from tradition as the concept of fornication may also be.
I do not think eternal hell would be in the spirit of the Quran, I think you get what you give or as the christian would say 'reap what you sow'
And We will place the scales of justice for the Day of Resurrection, so that no soul will be wronged in the least. Even if it was the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it. And We are sufficient as a Reckoner. (2147)
pz
-
peace khalil,
sorry for the misinformation. i dont know where i heard that from, but maybe it's not qur'anic. this is all really interesting to me. say, for the sake of discussion, that fornication is a man-made concept, then would engagement also be a man-made concept? if so, then why the verse prohibiting an engaged man and women to meet secretely except for righteousness? any other interpretations of that verse? thanks.
blue
-
-
peace wakas,
yes, i'm mistaken. i read somewhere that there are three sins that are punished by eternal hellfire- shirk, murder, and fornication. but i don't believe this is qur'anic so disregard it. anyway, my questions now relate to idol-free's comment that sex implies marriage, in which case the terms "fornication" and "engagement" lose their meanings.
blue
-
peace khalil,
sorry for the misinformation. i dont know where i heard that from, but maybe it's not qur'anic. this is all really interesting to me. say, for the sake of discussion, that fornication is a man-made concept, then would engagement also be a man-made concept? if so, then why the verse prohibiting an engaged man and women to meet secretely except for righteousness? any other interpretations of that verse? thanks.
blue
Peace blurose
I am not positive now that idolfree's understanding is 100% correct as well, i was reading chapter 2 today and do not want to jump to hastly to a conclusion.
And there is no sin upon you if you openly propose marriage to these women, or you keep it between yourselves. God knows that you will be thinking of them, but do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to say. And do not consummate the marriage until the required interim is reached in the Scripture. And know that God knows what is in your souls, so be aware of Him, and know that God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
This is free-Minds translation, i think it would be rather odd (humurous as well )) to announce 'Will you have sex with me!' in front of family members and guests.
Until I have all the verses collected on marrige grouped together I do not feel i would be giving you a fair answer.
pz
-
Peace Blue
I found this posted by Wakas in another topic (http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1845).
http//web.umr.edu/~msaumr/topics/index.html
Go to the section on Marraige, it is rather extensive and will take a lengthy time for each of us to go threw it, but God Willing it will help s eliminate falsehood.
pz
