Is hell going to be eternal for anyone acording to the Quran

huruf

Looking for something else I found this message in another thread

Quote from Ashraf on September 14, 2009, 014843 AM
Dear Samia,

I want to learn and hope you dont mind to reply

Is it wrong if i understand the verse 2203 as follows

Minimum "ma3doodat" >>> two days
Maximum "ma3doodat" >>> varies (3 or 4 or 7 etc) but preferably 10, however 10 is not a mandatory.

The only 10 that I consider a preferred count was just my understanding base on "hint" in 2196 and 892. (is there anything else?)

However 10 days in 2196 is for hajj I am not sure whether I can overconfidantly say so that 10 days apply to Ramadhan as well.

My understanding at this moment is that Allah give His mercy (leeway) for us to decide the max no of days to our personal preference/ability this time around, but minimum is two. (This stand is still subject to debate/correction)

On other note Allah is very specific with the number of siyaam ie. 3 days (589), 10 days (2196). Any feedback appreciated.

Peace, Ashraf

Samia says
Welcome back! It's been almost a year...

I wouldn't consider 2 as part of ma3duudat, since it's mentioned as an exception for special circumsatnces of what would be accepted outside the ma3duudaat.
Minimum of ma3duudat 3
Maximum 10

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg222598#msg222598

It may be of interest regarding the aya 2.80 which has been mentioned in this thread repeatedly.

There is just one difference, in 2.203 says ayam ma3dudaat (adjective in plural), and in 2.80 says ayam ma3duda (adjective in singular).

As far as I know in plural of things, adjectives are normally in singular feminine, so for me the question is why in 2.203 is in plural and whether or not it affects to the number of days that that come in that range.

Salaam

loxbox13

I do agree with loxbox13.

Perhaps, take note from 2118, maybe the end of this cycle is when all truth is distinguished from all falsehood, whatever that means. Then there would be no real purpose for the universe quranically.

Even though there is an eternity between now and the end, there is still an end. According to the quran, this is the first creation? Or is this perhaps #290242094831110 and we are completely unawares?

#290242094831110
This number its too much, but it's a possibility, there's no way wa can know

I believe it's the second for us as humans, and there will be another one, called the heareafter

How disbelieve ye in Allah when ye were dead and He gave life to you! Then He will give you death, then life again, and then unto Him ye will return 228

They say Our Lord! Twice hast Thou made us die, and twice hast Thou made us live. Now we confess our sins. Is there any way to go out? 4011

So maybe in the Universe before this, we existed for the 1st time, as a trial or something, or primitive beigns who needed another start from zero for evolution, if this is true, than the next world we'll be even more sophisticated lol , more evolution, because even the universe gets evolution.
It's just my understanding of these ayats, i could be wrong, but been dead than alive than dead than again alive, and twise so , before the first death, than we existed or not ? a dead man is a man that existed I believe.

loxbox13

oops, double post

shadowpuppet

What I am more interested in is whether or not anyone has ever been to this horrible place called Hell.
Is this how we know about it? Or is it just another myth to keep us in fear of whoever runs the press....

shadowpuppet

Were you speaking with a Jew? I did not think they believed in a Hell.

Then, perhaps, we ought to hear them out on the subject, instead of just claiming a culture for our own and scattering the ashes about.

Salaam.

unknownuser

Here is the answer to this thread

007040 - Surely (as for) those who reject Our communications and turn away from them haughtily, the doors of heaven shall not be opened for them, nor shall they enter the garden until the camel pass through the eye of the needle; and thus do We reward the guilty.

So all that needs to be done is to fit a camel through a pinhole. Any takers willing to save the stupidest segment of humanity from the fires of hell?

san

well, OPF, the thing is, we will have to 'respect' people's decision not to be saved... as long as they don't bring anyone else with them.

JewishDude

This is an interesting thread.

Ok... So the Jewish perspective on the afterlife.... there is no official Jewish perspective on the afterlife. Jews believe everything from "when you die its over" to transmigration of the soul. Since there is no official view, people tend not to talk about it too much.

If we operate from the clear stance that Allah is Merciful and Compassionate, then we would have to say that hell is more of a deterrent for those who refuse to submit to him. And those who while in hell appeal to his mercy and compassion may receive that. However, those who still refuse would remain there indefinitely. Besides if Allah said if you fornicate you will endure 25minutes of hell and then you go to heaven, one might think "25 minutes... I can do that". I think a soul is in hell if they are lost from Allah and can't find him or refuse to find him. If a soul refuses to submit then hell would be eternal. However, this is my opinion.

Would love to hear other's opinions.

Pel I can appreciate that you are a seeker and how difficult that can be. However, one thing you will find is that all religions even deism have something about them you will not like. You need to develop faith. Faith is believing in something that cannot be proved. I think you need to draw close to Allah and see what he wants for you. Then you can build a solid relationship with Allah. Don't worry about rituals or how to do them correctly, sit quietly, pray, study and look for Allah's work in your life and in those around you. Then you will develop faith.

Peace, Salam, Shalom
JewishDude

unknownuser

I think a soul is in hell if they are lost from Allah and can't find him or refuse to find him. If a soul refuses to submit then hell would be eternal. However, this is my opinion.

I would agree with that. It reminds me of a near death experience report I read somewhere. The person experiencing that siad that they had a vision of this incredible light and a bunch of souls, some drawn close to the light, some far away. Those souls close to the light were in bliss, and further away from the light those souls were in pure anguish.

mmkhan

Salaam all,

323
324
325

323 Did you not see those who were given a portion of the Book being invited to the Book of Allah to judge between them, then a group of them turns away while they are adverse?

324 That is because they said The Fire will not touch us except for a few number of days, and they were arrogant by what they invented in their system.

325 How shall it be when We gather them on the Day in which there is no doubt; and every soul shall receive what it has earned, and they will not be wronged.

May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan

huruf

Thanks, Mkhan, it seems that in effect, ma3duda and ma3dudaat are used with the same meaning. So, I guess we can take that those ayam m3duda the Qur'an says rfer to this idea they rejecters had, that hell would just be a few days, between 3 and ten.

Salaam

ramzi

Salaam,

My take on this is as follows

Whoever reads the whole quran can only come up with one understanding regarding Judgement Day, Heaven and Hell.

Entering heaven or hell is the result of the balance of you work on Judgement Day. Whoever has more good deeds than bad deeds will go to heaven, and same for the opposite. Once you're in there's no going out.

Regards
Ramzi

PS. If your good deeds equal your bad deeds, then you play a penalty shootout with God. jedi

the_path_of_light

"You don't have to die to go there, because we're livin' in hell."-Life Scientist

To me, hell is separation from Allah. Heaven is to be in the presence of the Sustainer.

I think Sura 2.28 has already been mentioned, but it's worth revisiting "How can you reject faith in God? Do you not recall that you were once without life, and God gave you life; then God will cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and finally to Allah you will return."

That quote is from this heretical website http//rose-sufi-crescent.blogspot.com/2007/02/islam-sufism-and-reincarnation.html Obviously, this quote is being used to espouse the non-traditional view of reincarnation.

Honestly, what is the true point of Islam? Is it really about debating backward beliefs in which some mean-spirited deity tortures people for eternity and dares to call it justice? To me, that kind of behavior is demonic, pure and simple. If you are going to truly submit to the Creator, that seems to imply some sort of action beyond reading a book. The definition of yoga is to join oneself with God, and that seems to be what Islam demands.

Eternal hellfire is not just. Would you purposely spend time around a human whose hobbies include buring other human beings? I am guessing not. So why would you worship a God that does the same thing? Is it because might makes right? I'm not trying to be rude, but I am curious about the mental state of those who believe this.

Any book that has been touched by man is somewhat corrupted. Salaam.

sun

exodus

Hello all,

7179 is just a single fact belonging this obvious truth in whole Quran Hell is eternal just like Heaven.

7179Many, moreover, of the Djinn and men have we created for Hell. Hearts have they with which they understand not, and eyes have they with which they see not, and ears have they with which they hearken not. They are like the brutes Yea, they go more astray these are the heedless.

Peace.

unknownuser

Salam,

According the Quran,the hellfire is eternal for those who did not submit themselves to God during their life on Earth.
According the Quran,the heaven is eternal for those who submitted themselves to God during their life on Earth.

Quran,chapter 2

Peace,

Kindness

raginggaijin

The Fire is not eternal.

Syncretism Eternal Damnation
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fTc9UpRbE8

There are those among the Yahudians, Christians, and Islamists who believe the Fire is Eternal. They speak of an everlasting punishment for those who do not serve Allah.
Is this true? Will those who disbelieve in the revelation of Allah be condemned to eternal torment?
I believe Allah is Guide, and He explains the Quran.
Inside the Quran there is a description for all things.
Insha'Allah, this example will prove this point.

Allah has ordained Mercy upon Himself.
"Say 'To whom belongs what is in the heavens and in the earth?' Say 'It is Allah's. He has prescribed for Himself mercy. He will surely gather you to the Resurrection Day, of which is no doubt. Those who have lost their souls, they do not believe." Surah 612

Allah speaks of doubling chastisement.
Doubling chastisement Surah 738, 3368, 3861
How can you double eternity?

There are 3 types of people described in the Quran.

3 types of people Surah 746-48, 567-11

The Foremost
The People of the Right Hand
The People of the Left Hand

The Foremost/Outstrippers are
"a throng of the ancients and how few of the later folk." Surah 5613-14

The People of the Right Hand are
"A throng of the ancients and a throng of the later folk." Surah 5639-40

Allah names both partitions, 'The ancients (al-awwaleena) and the later folk (waal-akhireena)' in Surah 5649

Take note of Surah 5617
"immortal (mukhalladoona) youths going round about them" Surah 5617

So knowing the usage of the word for ?living immortal?, and based on what is shown now, what is Allah striving to teach us? The word for ?Immortal? and ?living immortal? it used throughout the Quran.

Immortality (alkhuldi) Surah 20120, 2515, 23103
?But those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness -- the Gardens of Paradise shall be their hospitality, therein to dwell immortal (khalideena), desiring no removal out of them.? Surah 18107-108
?Say 'Is that better, or the Garden of Eternity, that is promised to the godfearing, and is their recompense and homecoming?' Therein they shall have what they will dwelling immortal (khalideena); it is a promise binding upon thy Lord, and of Him to be required.? Surah 2515-16
?Surely those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, there awaits them Gardens of Bliss therein to dwell immortal (khalideena) -- Allah's promise in truth; and He is the All-mighty, the All-wise.? Surah 318-9

There are teachings of Paul that states all his followers will be ?salted? by the Fire, and to not be afraid of the fiery trial as it will only last a few days. This is refuted in the Quran.

The Fire will last more than a few days Surah 280

It will last for ages; many, many years.
Ages (huquban, huqb/hiqbah) Surah 1860, 7823
?Surely Ghenna lies in wait, for the insolent a resort, therein to tarry for ages (ahqaban)? Surah 7821-23

A day with Allah is a thousand years as we count.
? And they demand of thee to hasten the chastisement! Allah will not fail His promise; and surely a day with thy Lord is as a thousand years of your counting.? Surah 2247

Allah makes it clear the Fire is not eternal through His own explanations.

Not Eternal Surah 6128, 11106-107, 3364-65, 4128, 7821-23
?So as to those who are unhappy, they shall be in the fire; for them shall be sighing and groaning in it so long as the heavens and earth abide, save as thy Lord will; surely thy Lord accomplishes what He desires.? Surah 11106-107
?On the day when He shall muster them all together 'Company of jinn, you have made much of mankind.' Then their friends among mankind will say, 'Our Lord, we have profited each of the other, and we have reached the term determined by Thee for us. He will say 'The Fire is your lodging, therein to live immortal (khalideena)' - except as Allah will; surely thy Lord is All-wise, All-knowing.? Surah 6128

"even he who shall roast in the Great Fire, then he shall neither die therein, nor live." Surah 8713

There is a parable found in the Quran concerning the ?camel? and the ?eye of the needle?. Many translators overlap the teachings of the Bible onto this translation. Is this a true translation?
Does the Quran use the same words found in this ayat elsewhere in the Quran?

"Those that cry lies to Our signs and wax proud against them the gates of heaven shall not be opened to them, nor shall they enter Paradise until the camel passes through the eye of the needle. Even so We recompense the sinners;" Surah 740

"Inna allatheena kaththaboo bi-ayatina waistakbaroo AAanha la tufattahu lahum abwabu alssama-i wala yadkhuloona aljannata hatta yalija aljamalu fee sammi alkhiyati wakathalika najzee almujrimeena " Surah 740

Surah 740 is translated using these words
Camel (aljamalu)
Eye (sammi)
Needle (alkhiyati)

In the Quran we have the words translated for...
Camel (alAAisharu) Surah 5655, 814
Camels (al-ibili) Surah 6144, 8817
She-camel (alnnaqata) Surah 773, 777, 1164, 1759, 26155, 5427, 9113
Caravans/Riders/Embark (rikabin) Surah 2239, 842, 1141-42, 168, 1871, 2965, 3642, 3672, 4079, 4312, 596, 8419
The Cow (albaqarah) Surah 20, 267-71, 273, 6144, 1243, 1246
Beasts of sacrifice (albudna jaAAalnaha) Surah 2236
The Game/Hunted (alsaydu) Surah 51, 594-96
Hound/wolf (alkalbi) Surah 54, 7176, 1818
Cattle (al-anAAami) Surah 51, 6142, 2228, 2234, 2549, 3528, 396, 4712
Animal/Beast/Creature (dabbatin) Surah 2164, 638, 116, 1156, 1649, 1661, 1680, 2218, 2445, 2782, 2960, 3110, 3414, 3528, 3545, 4229, 454

What about rope?
Rope/halter/bond/covenant (hablin) Surah 3103, 3112, 2066, 2644, 5016 (vein), 1115
Rope/means (bisasabin) Surah 1884-92, 2215, 3810, 4046-37

Disbelievers will be driven (saqu), forced into (adtarruhu) into the Fire Surah 1126, 1986, 3971 (believers 3973)
"and drive (wanasuqu) the evildoers into Gehenna thirsting (wirdan)," Surah 1986
"Then the unbelievers shall be driven (Waseeqa) in companies (zumaran) into Gehenna till, when they have come thither, then its gates will be opened and its keepers will say to them, 'Did not Messengers come to you from among yourselves, reciting to you the signs of your Lord and warning you against the encounter of this your day?' They shall say, 'Yes indeed; but the word of the chastisement has been realized against the unbelievers.'" Surah 3971

Disbelievers are likened unto beasts, cattle Surah 7179, 822. 855
"We have created for Gehenna many jinn and men they have hearts, but understand not with them; they have eyes, but perceive not with them; they have ears, but they hear not with them. They are like cattle (al-anAAami); nay, rather they are further astray. Those -- they are the heedless." Surah 7179
"Surely the worst of beasts (alddawabbi) in God's sight are those that are deaf and dumb and do not understand." Surah 822
"Surely the worst of beasts (alddawabbi) in God's sight are the unbelievers, who will not believe," Surah 855
"Allah shall surely admit those who believe and do righteous deeds into gardens underneath which rivers flow. As for the unbelievers, they take their enjoyment and eat as cattle (al-anAAamu) eat; and the Fire shall be their lodging." Surah 4712

Root word for (aljamalu) is used in Surah 7733 (jimalatun), translated into 'herds' (plural) in A.J. Arberry's translation, while others continue to use 'camels'.
Root word for (sammi) is used in Surah 5642 (samumin) and Surah 1527, 5227 (alsamumi) - but they mean 'scorching' or 'scorching fire' Surah 1527, 5227, 5642
Root word for (alkhiyati) is used in Surah 2187 (alkhaytu), which is used to determine the white 'thread' of dawn from the black 'thread' of night. This denotes a 'transition' of one state to another.

So using what I now know from the explanation given by Allah in the Quran, I would translate

"Those that cry lies to Our signs and wax proud against them the gates of heaven shall not be opened to them, nor shall they enter Paradise until the herd passes through the scorching of the transition. Even so We recompense the sinners;" Surah 740

I believe the disbelievers will have to pass through the purification of the Fire before admitted to Paradise.

"It shall be proclaimed to the unbelievers, 'Surely God's hatred is greater than your hatred one of another, when you were called unto belief, and disbelieved.'
They (the unbelievers that is) shall say, 'Our Lord, Thou hast caused us to die two deaths and Thou hast given us twice to live; now we confess our sins. Is there any way to go forth?'" Surah 4010-11

?So they confess their sins. Away with the inhabitants of the Blaze!? Surah 6711

"And there succeeded after them a succession who inherited the Book, taking the chance goods of this lower world, and saying, 'It will be forgiven us'; and if chance goods the like of them come to them, they will take them. Has not the compact of the Book been taken touching them, that they should say concerning God nothing but the truth? And they have studied what is in it; and the Last Abode is better for those who are godfearing. Do you not understand?" Surah 7169

It won't be forgiven. On the contrary, their punishment will be severe and will last for many, many years. The punishment will match the deed.

?Whoso brings a good deed shall have better than it; and whoso brings an evil deed those who have done evil deeds shall only be recompensed for that they were doing.? Surah 2884

Good deeds outweigh evil deeds.

I believe the believers - the Muslims who DO the works and don't just provide lip service ? are purified in this life. SPENDING out of what Allah provides you.
Belief AND works; they go hand-in-hand. That includes confessing our sins and repentance; don't do it again.

Allah protects the believers from the Fire Surah 315-16, 3191, 407, 4456, 4631
"They shall not taste therein of death, save the first death, And He shall guard them against the chastisement of Hell --" Surah 4456

?Gardens of Eden, underneath which rivers flow, therein dwelling forever; that is the recompense of the self-purified (tazakka).? Surah 2076

?The inhabitants of Paradise will call to the inhabitants of the Fire 'We have found that which our Lord promised us true; have you found what your Lord promised you true?' 'Yes,' they will say. And then a herald shall proclaim between them 'Allah's curse is on the evildoers who bar from Allah's way, desiring to make it crooked, disbelieving in the world to come. And between them is a veil, and on the Ramparts are men knowing each by their mark, who shall call to the inhabitants of Paradise 'Peace be upon you!? They have not entered it, for all their eagerness.'? Surah 744-46

Fire/Hell Surah 281, 23103, 6128, 11107, 5715, 1018-11, 3948, 764, 2691, 2167, 1417, 2222, 8315, 1046-7, 2074, 8712-13, 7821-30, 1449, 3221, 5448, 7936, 8923, 2954, 1968-72, 456, 7730-33, 11106, 1829, 21100, 2219-22, 3856-58, 4071-72, 7312-13,882-7

I must question the intention of those who desire to see people burn in torment for eternity. Do not be so quick to ascribe purity onto yourselves ? Allah knows who is righteous and who purifies themselves by spending out of what He provides. It may very well be the ones who want people to burn forever are the ones who will be abiding in the Fire.

How can anyone who says Allah is Merciful and Forgiving say He will burn someone for eternity?

May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace.

exodus

Verses below, just an addition to the fact in 7179, i would not comment on them.

But he whom God shall cause to err, shall thenceforth have no protector. And thou shalt behold the perpetrators of injustice, Exclaiming, when they see the torment, "Is there no way to return?"

And thou shalt see them when set before it, downcast for the shame they shall look at it with stealthy glances and the believers shall say, "Truly are the losers they who have lost themselves and their families on the day of Resurrection! Shall not the perpetrators of injustice be in lasting torment?"

Verily who so doth evil, and is encompassed by his iniquity, they shall be the companions of hell fire, they shall remain therein for ever!

But they who shall accuse our signs of falsehood, and shall proudly reject them, they shall be the companions of hell fire; they shall remain therein for ever!

My sole work is preaching from God, and His message and for such as shall rebel against God and his apostle is the fire of Hell! they shall remain therein alway, - for ever!

the_path_of_light

As the last two posts very adequately prove, the same book can lead people to believe that hell is eternal and that hell is finite (being that I believe Allah is most-merciful, I believe the latter).

If a human being wants to have a true relationship with God, my hippie belief is that having a heart filled with love is the only requirement.

A Day to God is 1,000 Years http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAuHipErRl8

sun

exodus

As the last two posts very adequately prove, the same book can lead people to believe that hell is eternal and that hell is finite (being that I believe Allah is most-merciful, I believe the latter).

Please aware that people may give you false info depending on their desire. If a verse clearly and directly states that hell is eternal without needing any constrained explanations, then it is eternal. Book can not being in falsehood, but people can.

Peace.

the_path_of_light

Peace Exodus,

While I totally agree with you, be aware that your statement goes both ways. Maybe your belief in hell's eternity comes from your desire for sentient beings to be tortured for eternity as punishment for sins.

tempt