The language of Salat
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I was reading and came across this
?only the school of Abu Hanifa, himself of Persian extractions, is unequivocally in favour of the admissibility of language other than Arabic for the recitation of this holy text. As a result, his opponents have accused him of harbouring Zoroastrian sympathies? p53 -introduction to islamic theology and law Ignaz Goldziher
it's interesting how many are told salat is to be done in arabic only yet, early sunni sources allowed for different languages.
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Salaam Sarah
Interesting topic.
The complete and perfect Koran gives the details of -salat- purpose, prayertimes, washing and postures in normal and special circumstances (times of hazard or lack of water).
Other habits concerning the direction of prayer (qibla), the words and language, seem to be human innovations - are not found in the Koran.
Concerning the content of the -salaat-, the words that can be used - the only Koranic rule is to remember God.
2014 I am God, there is no god but Me, so serve Me and hold the contact prayer for My remembrance.
The Koran is a guidance for all mankind, so the -salat- as a special ritual prayer (next to the general bond) is prescribed for all the followers of the Koran, from all cultures and with all languages. One can conclude that any person in any culture and with any language, may remember God in his/her own language and way - within the framework that is given in the Koran.
The Creator did not put any hardship in the religion - 2278, so it is not defendable that most non-Arabic speaking people should use or hear Arabic words in their -salat- that they do not, or hardly understand and have difficulties with to pronounce correctly.
The purpose of -salat- is only about the remembrance of God, it has nothing to do with a test in speaking or understanding the Arabic language.Verses 17110 and 17111 do not prescribe the usage of only the words of the Koran during -salat-. The only ruling of these verses concerning the -salat- is that words should be used during the -salat- (see also verse 443). Those words should be used to remember God alone - 2014.
That can be done best in the language and in a format that belongs to the culture of the several peoples, within the framework of the Koran purpose, prayertimes, washing and postures.When people want to pray together who speak different languages - the common sense rule could be use the language that all participants understand. If this is not possible - pray in seperate groups.
People who do not speak Arabic, can for instance use special translated Koranic verses that help to remember God - and/or can call to God in the own language, that can also be done by uttering the names of God in the own language - verse 17110, but also other texts are possible - as long as they are perfectly compatible with the content of the Koran.
Truthseeker171
Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Salaam,
The complete and perfect Koran gives the details of -salat- purpose, prayertimes, washing and postures in normal and special circumstances (times of hazard or lack of water).
Other habits concerning the direction of prayer (qibla), the words and language, seem to be human innovations - are not found in the Koran.
&
443
443 O you who believe, do not approach the contact prayer while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.
Everyone knows their mother tongue perfectly.
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam Mohammed
So we agree that the rulings that the text of the -salat- should be in Arabic and should be only from the Koran - are not found in the Koran.
Verse 443 indicates that the participants of the -salat- should only say words and listen to words that they really understand.
I agree that this can mean that during -salat- the mother language can be used in general.Truthseeker171
Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Salaam truthseeker171,
Salaam Mohammed
So we agree that the rulings that the text of the -salat- should be in Arabic and should be only from the Koran - are not found in the Koran.
handshake
AlQuraan cannot be recited in Salaat cause as per 443 " " means "until you know what you are saying"
'Saying' is NOT equal to 'reciting'. That means, you have to SAY in Salaat not RECITE/READ.
Verse 443 indicates that the participants of the -salat- should only say words and listen to words that they really understand.
I did not understand what you means by "Listen to words"? There is no listening, Salaat is an INDIVIDUAL act between a person and Allah, that is how I understand it.
I agree that this can mean that during -salat- the mother language can be used in general.
Because of Allah's grace and favor upon us all - YES yes InshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
I was reading and came across this
?only the school of Abu Hanifa, himself of Persian extractions, is unequivocally in favour of the admissibility of language other than Arabic for the recitation of this holy text. As a result, his opponents have accused him of harbouring Zoroastrian sympathies? p53 -introduction to islamic theology and law Ignaz Goldziher
it's interesting how many are told salat is to be done in arabic only yet, early sunni sources allowed for different languages.
That is very interesting. Amazing how things change over time, stuff gets forgotten.
Of course they accused him - seems to be the way it works. You can be as ''unpracticing'' as you like and while people won't like it, they will mostly accept (with some tut tutting). But the moment you do things differently based on a concsious and informed decision you make for yourself then you get attacked. I wonder why that is. )
I had to look up Zoroastrian because I seemed to remember coming across followers in India. I never realised it was such an old religion before; I never thought about it even though I've heard the name a lot.
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Salaam Mohammed
AlQuraan cannot be recited in Salaat cause as per 443 " " means "until you know what you are saying"
'Saying' is NOT equal to 'reciting'. That means, you have to SAY in Salaat not RECITE/READ.The Koran does not oblige the believers to recite from the Koran during the -salat-, nor does the Koran forbid this.
As long the believers use words that help to remember God during the -salat- then it is within the framework of the Koran.
Hereby one can use verses in the original Arabic language or translated verses, as long as the participant understands the meaning of them and that they help to remember God.
For instance the last three chapters begin with the word say -qul-. So the Koran does not recognize a structural difference between reciting and saying. Especially when we recite from the Koran by heart we can say any verse or Koranic word that helps to remember God.I did not understand what you means by "Listen to words"? There is no listening, Salaat is an INDIVIDUAL act between a person and Allah, that is how I understand it.
There are some verses in the Koran that seem to prove that -salat- can be done in groups
for instance
verse 629-10 - the communal middle prayer
verse 4102 - the prayer with the messengerThese verses where in the timeframe of the life of the messenger - so for now we can not say if it is preferable to pray alone or in a group. But the verses about the visiting -el bait-, for instance verse 2125 seem to indicate that a communal prayer can be done or even should be done while visiting a -bait- a communal house, regularly.
Logic dictates that during a communal prayer there can be one person who says the words and that the other participants listen - to remember God. However some parts of the prayer or the whole prayer could be done together - if everybody agrees in advance what to say.
Verse 443 does not actually dictate that everybody has to say something during a group-prayer - it could rather be about a kind of alcohol-test, to control if one is sober enough to join the prayer, even if one participates as a listener in stead of a speaker during the prayer.
Truthseeker171
Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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I think it's important to know what you're saying in the prayer.. otherwise what's the purpose
i found it interesting due to the dogmatic approach people take these days and abu Hanifa an imam came out with a theory.
yet even if people disagree they still get backlash. I wonder how many sunnis would know
Zoroastrianism kinda died out but yeh it's interesting.
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Salaam TruthSeeker171,
Salaam Mohammed
The Koran does not oblige the believers to recite from the Koran during the -salat-, nor does the Koran forbid this.
As long the believers use words that help to remember God during the -salat- then it is within the framework of the Koran.
Hereby one can use verses in the original Arabic language or translated verses, as long as the participant understands the meaning of them and that they help to remember God.
For instance the last three chapters begin with the word say -qul-. So the Koran does not recognize a structural difference between reciting and saying. Especially when we recite from the Koran by heart we can say any verse or Koranic word that helps to remember God.I agree with you but the red part above.
1121
1121 Say He is Allah, the One
961
961 Read in the name of your Lord who has created.
2945
2945 Recite what is inspired to you of the Book, and hold the contact prayer, for the contact prayer prohibits immorality and vice; but certainly the remembrance of Allah is the greatest. Allah knows everything you do.
When Allah ask you "Qul" means "Say" you can read back the same words in Salaat. That means, you cannot ask Allah to "Say" Allah is One. If you want to use Sura Ahad in Salaat, you have to say from after "Qul", that means you have leave the word "Qul" then you can say it.
There are some verses in the Koran that seem to prove that -salat- can be done in groups
for instance
verse 629-10 - the communal middle prayer
verse 4102 - the prayer with the messengerBrother the aayaats are for some special case not for normal Salaat. And I believe even 629-10 is also not a group-Salaat. I know, people have to gather but they have to perform Salaat individually. This is how I understand.
These verses where in the timeframe of the life of the messenger - so for now we can not say if it is preferable to pray alone or in a group. But the verses about the visiting -el bait-, for instance verse 2125 seem to indicate that a communal prayer can be done or even should be done while visiting a -bait- a communal house, regularly.
Logic dictates that during a communal prayer there can be one person who says the words and that the other participants listen - to remember God. However some parts of the prayer or the whole prayer could be done together - if everybody agrees in advance what to say.
Verse 443 does not actually dictate that everybody has to say something during a group-prayer - it could rather be about a kind of alcohol-test, to control if one is sober enough to join the prayer, even if one participates as a listener in stead of a speaker during the prayer.
Allah said
245
245 And seek help through patience and through the contact prayer. It is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble.
This means, everyone has their own problems and need help from Allah for the same. How can they seek help from Allah in a group Salaat?
And I don't see any other aayaats saying about group Salaat.
May Allah correct us all where we make mistakes and guide us all towards His correct path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam Mohammed
1121
1121 Say He is Allah, the One961
961 Read in the name of your Lord who has created.2945
2945 Recite what is inspired to you of the Book, and hold the contact prayer, for the contact prayer prohibits immorality and vice; but certainly the remembrance of Allah is the greatest. Allah knows everything you do.When Allah ask you "Qul" means "Say" you can read back the same words in Salaat. That means, you cannot ask Allah to "Say" Allah is One. If you want to use Sura Ahad in Salaat, you have to say from after "Qul", that means you have leave the word "Qul" then you can say it.
You are right in pointing to this difference of reciting and saying reciting as reading from the book is different from saying/reciting verses from the Koran by heart. Still any verse or word from the Koran can be said during the -salat- as long this helps to remember God.
I agree with your point that it might be better to skip the word -qul- when reciting one of the last three chapters during the -salat-, but also this is not obligatory.
We can enjoy the freedom of choice when the Creator gives it.Brother the aayaats are for some special case not for normal Salaat. And I believe even 629-10 is also not a group-Salaat. I know, people have to gather but they have to perform Salaat individually. This is how I understand.
verse 629-10 - the communal middle prayer
verse 4102 - the prayer with the messengerIt is correct that verse 4102 is about -salat- in case of danger - but from it we can deduce that the -salat- can be done in a group. The special ruling of this verse seems to be that the group should be divided and take turns to pray together with the prophet.
The communal -salat- seems to be a normal event and is not restricted otherwise anywhere in the Koran.
Verses 629-10 indicate that there can be a communal prayer when believers happen to be together.
But since the relevant verses relate to the presence of the prophet, one could say that the communal prayer is not an important issue. It might be up to the believers to pray alone or in a group. Anyway the Koran does not forbid to pray in a group.Allah said
245
245 And seek help through patience and through the contact prayer. It is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble.This means, everyone has their own problems and need help from Allah for the same. How can they seek help from Allah in a group Salaat?
And I don't see any other aayaats saying about group Salaat.Verse 245 may refer to the ritual -salat-, but can also refer to the general bond, as in verse 2945. The bond with God in general gives us true aid and prohibits immorality and vice. The ritual -salat- itself alone does not prohibit immorality and vice. Performers of the ritual prayer can behave very differently.
Rather in the total -salat- in following all the relevant commands of the Koran and not in the ritual prayer alone, we might find help.
Even when verse 245 refers only to the ritual -salat- then a communal form of prayer would not block that one can seek help in it. Any prayer or remembrance of God, in a group or alone can have benefits. The mere remembrance of God can have several positive psychological effects.
Actually verse 2014 orders us to remember God alone during the ritual -salat-, and not to focus on the personal problems that one might have, this could distract us.
After or before the -salat- throughout the day, one can ask God because of personal problems when one feels this is needed.
The ritual -salat- is to remember God alone.Truthseeker171
Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.