Should we join Traditional Islam?
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Peace to all,
This is just a rant, but ive been thinking about this for awhile. My heart is truely in the Quran alone movement, but we get nothing done, allwe do is talk and debate, which is good, but arent we supposed to take an active role in the world, to help change it fot the better, to fight oppression, etc. While I have alot of disagreements with the traditional form of Islam , wouldnt it be better if we allied ourselves with them and worled with them and stopped attacking them for their beliefs. Why not work from within and try to reform them and their reliance on hadeeth, etc. My point is, that the world is full of bad things happening by bad people, and it seams like islam alone is the force that is confronting and trying to stop the evil in high places from destroying our world. So, even though they praqctice Islam a little differently than us, we still agree on more than we disagree, shouldnt we join them and help.
Then do something. Why the need to take cues from this group, or that group?
Take action yourself. If all qur'an alone people do is talk and debate, something I can't entirely disagree with, then buck the trend. Withdraw yourself from the minutiae, and "take an active role in the world."
This idea that everything has to consist of delineated groups fighting against each other is misguided. Us vs. them is an archaic concept, or should be at least. Ignore the labels. There are many -- who don't call themselves muslim -- who act as true muslims should, after all. No need to settle. Stand above it all and be the change you want to see.
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even though they practice Islam a little differently than us
a little? are you serious? Islam derived from Quran and the one coming from hadith sources are POLES APART.... only if your proposition was correct, which I wish was the case in reality, your suggestions had any weight.
When people refuse to let go of the dogma that they inherit from ancestors, how can anyone talk reason with them ?? What and where is the mutual agenda? when all traditional muslims want is to talk about Muhammad and his friends and how to copycat them 24/7!
we still agree on more than we disagree
Again, those who believe in following Quran would hardly agree with this. There is nothing much that the strict followers of Quran mutually agree with hadith followers, as far as the fundamentals of religion and faith are concerned. If there is, please list the examples?
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Again, those who believe in following Quran would hardly agree with this. There is nothing much that the strict followers of Quran mutually agree with hadith followers. If there is, please list the examples?
Oneness of Allah
Attributes of Allah such as Mercy and Wisdom
Quran is divine
Do not lie
Do not steal
Belief in all the Prophets mentioned in Quran
Belief that Prophets were exemplary characters
Day of judgement
Paradise and Hell
Be good to parents
Keep promises
Give to charity and help needy people
Protect the honour of your loved ones
Care for orphans and protect their wealth
Establish the deen
Give good council
Enjoin the good and forbid the evil
Shaitan is your enemy
Respect for other monotheists
Dislike of shirk
Pork is haram
Blood is haram
Shunning of alcohol
All forms of zina are wrong
Lewd behaviour is wrong
Connect with Allah through zhikr
Importance of literacy and education
Importance of mercy and justice in judiciary system
Emphasis on loving Allah and being grateful for your blessings
Emphasis on connecting with Allah through salat (even quranists believe this, albeit differing on what salat is)
Importance of fasting and self-controlThe old me would have surgically dissected your post to expose your ignorance and general obtuseness, but I'm a reformed man now, so I'll leave you with the above list to ponder on.
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Oneness of Allah
Attributes of Allah such as Mercy and Wisdom
Quran is divine
Do not lie
Do not steal
Belief in all the Prophets mentioned in Quran
Belief that Prophets were exemplary characters
Day of judgement
Paradise and Hell
Be good to parents
Keep promises
Give to charity and help needy people
Protect the honour of your loved ones
Care for orphans and protect their wealth
Establish the deen
Give good council
Enjoin the good and forbid the evil
Shaitan is your enemy
Respect for other monotheists
Dislike of shirk
Pork is haram
Blood is haram
Shunning of alcohol
All forms of zina are wrong
Lewd behaviour is wrong
Connect with Allah through zhikr
Importance of literacy and education
Importance of mercy and justice in judiciary system
Emphasis on loving Allah and being grateful for your blessings
Emphasis on connecting with Allah through salat (even quranists believe this, albeit differing on what salat is)
Importance of fasting and self-controlThe old me would have surgically dissected your post to expose your ignorance and general obtuseness, but I'm a reformed man now, so I'll leave you with the above list to ponder on.
Oneness of Allah - only if traditional shia/sunni muslims could ACTUALLY believe in this !!
Similarly, most other things that you noted, (thank you for your effort !), carry significant conflicts with Quran in the bearing of sectarian shia/sunni beliefs, and their understanding.
PS the "old me" forgot some arrogance and self-conceit with you !! watch out.
Peace
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Sure. I personally see no problem why you can't work together with traditional muslims or people from other religious beliefs, as long as you do not cross the Qur'anic boundaries. There are many social/charity activities that are held by mosques and churches, that you can participate in.
Traditional muslims are not THAT bad, really. In my experience, as long as you do not confront them with your beliefs first hand, then you will be okay. They will respect you as they get to know you, and all this labelling will disappear. Same goes with Christians. So the key point is not to raise an argument just for the sake of telling them wrong, and just work for what you have in common. Then when you feel comfortable with them, you can disclose your belief in a peaceful manner. For all I know, they will accept you for who you are and will be curious to have a spiritual discussion from time to time. Anyway, working with others is fun. Don't let the whole labelling get in your way of being active in the path of God. Most of the time, you have to work with people from different belief systems anyway. Your educational institution and your workplace are filled with people from different backgrounds. That does not stop you from studying and working . If you want to volunteer for big NGOs such as Oxfam, Unicef etc, then you'll have to work with "non-muslims" most of the time. That won't stop you, right?
Anyway, if you still feel uneasy, there are many things you can do alone =). So yeah... if you want to work with traditional muslims, go for it! Do it if you believe it is for the right cause.
PS I have to say that not all people here just talk and debate. Since forum is intended for talk and discussion, of course all you see here is "just" talk and debate. You don't get to see what others do outside this virtual realm, so I think it is very unfair of you to make that judgment. Besides, talking and networking aren't all that bad. You get to know many people, their minds and personalities. You can make friends, and you know you're not alone in your beliefs . So yeah, just sayin'.
Good luck with whatever you're doing!
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PS I have to say that not all people here just talk and debate. Since forum is intended for talk and discussion, of course all you see here is "just" talk and debate. You don't get to see what others do outside this virtual realm, so I think it is very unfair of you to make that judgment. Besides, talking and networking aren't all that bad.
Agreed.
As a side note, see chapter 9, Quran.
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Jundullah, I like the 'multi-hat' concept. If you'll allow me to explain
Quran allows for a multiplicity of approaches and so we don't need to be either or. For me, it's like this-
On a cultural level, I am Muslim. My cultural roots are with the so-called ummah. I can work with them in a shared cultural space. I seek to reform them and empower them. On this platform I share a common goal with many Sunnis, Shia, Sufis and even Salafis.
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On a methodological level, I am a Quranist. My ideology stems as far as possible from the Quran. I don't need to ram this down everyone's throat but it serves as my inspiration and divine source.
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On a movement level, I am a muslim/agent of wholeness. I seek to make the world whole again. In this I can work with anyone from socialists to anarchists to hippies as long as they hold similar values.
dont be bogged down with either or mentality, jundullah.
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6159 Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done.
6160 Whoever comes with a good deed, he will receive ten times its worth, and whoever comes with a sin, he will only be recompensed its like; they will not be wronged.
All praise and thanks is due Allah alone.
Salaam -
Peace to all,
This is just a rant, but ive been thinking about this for awhile. My heart is truely in the Quran alone movement, but we get nothing done, allwe do is talk and debate, which is good, but arent we supposed to take an active role in the world, to help change it fot the better, to fight oppression, etc. While I have alot of disagreements with the traditional form of Islam , wouldnt it be better if we allied ourselves with them and worled with them and stopped attacking them for their beliefs. Why not work from within and try to reform them and their reliance on hadeeth, etc. My point is, that the world is full of bad things happening by bad people, and it seams like islam alone is the force that is confronting and trying to stop the evil in high places from destroying our world. So, even though they praqctice Islam a little differently than us, we still agree on more than we disagree, shouldnt we join them and help.
As you perhaps heard Sweden had its first suicide bomber just before christmas. Luckily he accidentaly blew himself up just before he walked into the main shopping street in Stockholm, so the only one killed was himself.
It created a lot of debate and the "Swedish muslim union" has been under a lot of critizism since they kinda just act like they know nothing about extreme islam.An article written by an immigrated journalist/writer muslim woman caught my attention. Sadly it is not in English so I cannot post it here. Anyways, she wrote that the Swedish government was to blame because they had been too passive integrating islam into the community. They were either too scared to infringe on religious freedom or the party in power didnt want to offend the muslims since they needed their votes. The main thing was however that they had no control over what was actually being preached in the mosques. An immigrant could basically just write "imam" in the right box on the visa application form and voila! he would be "authorised" by the government to start a mosque. No background check whatsoever. And since many extreme persons would love to preach to the world their fanatic view of islam, they were the ones who took this opportunity.
She wrote that many muslims were torn between following the laws of their new country and sharia laws that their imams preached about in the mosque, and this is the government's fault for not steadfastly making sure all muslims in Sweden understood that sharia is not the law of this country.She also wrote that she wants us to get cracking since the government has failed and let extreme islam enter the community. This journalist is a QA..... hmm
I really don't want to "infiltrate" traditional islam, my whole heart would scream if I had to put my wife behind a curtain in the mosque.....(one example only).......But I do agree that it is time to show traditional islam a united QA with a proper infrastructure. Sadly, it seems it is a question of money. Anyone got any?
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Oneness of Allah - only if traditional shia/sunni muslims could ACTUALLY believe in this !!
They do believe in this. Please explain how they do not.
Similarly, most other things that you noted, (thank you for your effort !), carry significant conflicts with Quran in the bearing of sectarian shia/sunni beliefs, and their understanding.
Go on then, let's see you explain that as well. You're the one who asked for the list. Now that one has been presented, you want to dismiss it? Please explain what these 'significant conflicts' are.
PS the "old me" forgot some arrogance and self-conceit with you !! watch out.
Thanks, but I'm good. I find it amusing when some quranists like to come here and bash traditionalists thinking that they'll get a hearty pat on the back... but instead someone like me comes and f**** it all up.
Basically, you're a sectarian. You are more interested in maintaining the differences between people rather than uniting under common terms. And making yourself a spokesperson for believers of quran is evidence that you never did quite grasp the concept of pluralism. Until you do, you'll continue to make ignorant statements such as, "There is nothing much that the strict followers of Quran mutually agree with hadith followers." I'm a strict follower of quran, and there is plenty mutual agreement between myself and hadith followers.
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If you want to see if you got no shirk left in you, check out 24/55, you will be the successor in the land and have a total state of security. This verse contains the phrase 'ya3budoonanee wa laa yushrikoo bi'ee shai'an' (they woship me and they do not associate with me anything). Are you in that position? Congrats if you are )
I may have got rid of one shirk (idolising the Prophet) but there's plenty of ways to go yet. Becoming a Quranists only helped my approach, it doesn't give me keys to heaven (the earthly or non-earthly one).
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Salaam,
If you want to see if you got no shirk left in you, check out 24/55, you will be the successor in the land and have a total state of security. This verse contains the phrase 'ya3budoonanee wa laa yushrikoo bi'ee shai'an' (they woship me and they do not associate with me anything). Are you in that position? Congrats if you are
I may have got rid of one shirk (idolising the Prophet) but there's plenty of ways to go yet. Becoming a Quranists only helped my approach, it doesn't give me keys to heaven (the earthly or non-earthly one).
Well said bravo
You can get rid of one more shirk by changing your name from AbdalQuran to AbdalAllah P
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
I may have got rid of one shirk (idolising the Prophet) but there's plenty of ways to go yet. Becoming a Quranists only helped my approach, it doesn't give me keys to heaven (the earthly or non-earthly one).
And a litle disrespect and lack of love for him will equally run the risk of straight landing in hell, nothwithstanding one is a so called traditionalist or so called Quranist.
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we can learn a thing or two from our cousins (the jews). you have ultra orthodox to liberal jews but they are a community. look at 'us' - there is no 'ummah'.
although the commonalities are more than the differences the differences sadly are very divisive.
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Quote
I may have got rid of one shirk (idolising the Prophet) but there's plenty of ways to go yet. Becoming a Quranists only helped my approach, it doesn't give me keys to heaven (the earthly or non-earthly one).Actually you have entered a world of confusion and dissatisfaction as most of so called Quranists have.
How can you call idolizing Prophet a Shirk? and then at the same time say I believe in Quran.Idolizing Prophet for me means to love or admire to excess.
The Prophet is more worthy of the believers than themselves,.....
translation by pickthall
Say If your fathers, and your sons, and your brethren, and your wives, and your tribe, and the wealth ye have acquired, and merchandise for which ye fear that there will no sale, and dwellings ye desire are dearer to you than Allah and His messenger and striving in His way then wait till Allah bringeth His command to pass. Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.translation by Mazhar
You, the Messenger pronounce, "If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your spouses and your clans;and the wealth that you have acquired, and the business you people fear recession in it and the residences you are delighted with are more attractive and dearer to you people than Allah and His Messenger and endeavoring/exerting utmost with wealth and bodily/physically for His cause/path
then wait until such time Allah proclaims His decision/command.
And Allah does not guide those people who are aberrant/the promise breakers and transgressors who go out of the prescribed bounds.I love Muhammad Peace is upon him and Idolize him according to Quran.
May Allah guide us to the truth and not the path of
And Allah does not guide those people who are aberrant/the promise breakers and transgressors who go out of the prescribed bounds. [924}
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I love Muhammad Peace is upon him and Idolize him according to Quran.
Salam Raaaja
Not that there is anything wrong in the above statement since the word idolize emphasises what is said before it and it means , but still, in keeping with the perception of majority of people who see things only on surface, I will prefer to put the word "idealize".
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Salam Raaaja
Not that there is anything wrong in the above statement since the word idolize emphasises what is said before it and it means , but still, in keeping with the perception of majority of people who see things only on surface, I will prefer to put the word "idealize".
advise taken.
Ab Nigahoon may meri Jachta nahi koi
Jaisey meri sarkar hain aisa nahi koi -
Salaam alaykum.
I reject the term "traditional" Muslim. The Muslim ummah began with Prophet Mohamed and he certainly did not write the hadiths. He only shared surahs and gave advice, not tell others to follow conjecture. To refer to them as "traditional" Muslims suggests that their views is traditional and thus closer to how Islam was in the beginning, when really the hadith is just conjecture. I don't mean to offend you with this, just giving my viewpoint on that.
I don't think we should follow conjecture. As long as we don't identify ourselves as anything else except as simply Muslim (ie. "submitters to God" instead of Quranist, Shia, Sunni, Sufi, or anything else, then our consciences should be clear because we're not separating ourselves. I can only speak for myself and I don't tell others that I am different from them because I reject the hadith. I don't ask whether they do or don't but if the topic comes up, I will say what is true, but I don't try to separate myself. If others choose to not consider us part of the ummah because we disagree about the hadith or because we don't consider ourselves Sunni, Shia, or part of any sect, then we are fine. I don't consider Muslims who reject the hadith as part of a certain sect. We are simply Muslims, "submitters to God", who follow God in His instruction to consider ourselves part of one ummah (ie. simply Muslim), not to follow conjecture, not even out of peer pressure.
