First temptation
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verily Allah is He, Most High (Ali) Most Great. 2262
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and because Allah He is the Most High (Ali), Most Great. 3130
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and He is the Most High (Ali), Most Great 3423
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The command is with Allah, Most High(Ali), Most Great!" 4012
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and He is Most High (Ali), Most Great. 424
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for Allah is Most High (Aliya), Great (above you all). 434
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and We granted them lofty (Aliya) honour on the tongue of truth. 1950
there was hadiths, saying that Ali was Alah, and there was other people, who were against this blasphemy, had other hadiths about tribes , saying ali was allah , and Ali burned them Alive etc...
So this made me feel that , there was never a Ali, in Islam, it was just the first temptation to kidnap Islam , a satanic idea, look for the word and invent a hero was named Ali , backed by the quran, allah is aliya kabirit disn't wark because the quran is too powerful concerning the onnes of god, so they tried Hussein, a sacrificed demi god , to save Islam etc....
I believe there was never a Ali, nor Aysha, they used these names to modify the course of history of muslims, just like the letter of Yazid, who became an evil in the eyes of shiaa, because of hadiths also, whnen he said the musulmas aren't religious at all, not like other nations in that timeThey invented hadiths, and only shunnah and shiaa worked with time, the concept of ali god idn't work, but he became a hero because according to their history, he was a victim, people took away from him his right for leadership etc..... jesus kind, and than Jusein became a victim ...
I believe there was never a ALI , a cousin of the prophet, it's all a fabrication.
Sorry I don't have the hadiths for now about Ali God . -
denying Ali even existed is a pretty far fetched idea i think.
Why ? beleiving is Ali existance is a requirement ? actyally, when u read the whole concept of Ali , and hussein, and their life , u can feel the fabrication of the sotries to modify Islam, to change the way from islam to ancient religions, as they did with christianity and all
imagine
Raose Mary -------Fatims Zahra ( rose)
Sacrifice of jesus to save humanity---------Sacrifice of hussein to save IslamAli the father of Hussein ---- didn't work for them to make him god the father, because the quran was too strong, to be modified in this way
When u read the story of Ali; he was a hero more than anyone else, in the same time he was the victim
u can feel too many fabrications, so why not, a created personality myth for creating a new concept through the quranit didn't work, so we ended up with sunnah and shiaa
No one can prouve Ali existance, except in hadiths
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I think that not everything in hadiz is invented, in the same way that not all in mythology is invented. Things come from somewhere. The limit between what comes and what does not come is the problem. Howevr, I approve of doubting everything as a method. Also there are some very wise and inspiring hadith, just as there are very inspiring religious tests from great souls. We appreciate them by themselves.
This questioning about this or that person I see as more of a historical character, of great interest for sure.
Salaam
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I think that not everything in hadiz is invented, in the same way that not all in mythology is invented. Things come from somewhere. The limit between what comes and what does not come is the problem. Howevr, I approve of doubting everything as a method. Also there are some very wise and inspiring hadith, just as there are very inspiring religious tests from great souls. We appreciate them by themselves.
This questioning about this or that person I see as more of a historical character, of great interest for sure.
Salaam
the hadith a hadith, prophet mohamed caled Ali alone by himself while everyone else watching them talk, when the prophet came back, they asked of what did you talk with Ali ? he said I didn't talk to him, but Allah was talking to him
See ? the logic ,
there are hadiths about Ali that he was the hero, just like the heros who were worshiped through history, his sword was different etc.. I really believe that Ali is a fictious personnage , to deviate Islam, he was the first attempt, didn't work, because the opponents, invented hadiths who say , People after mohamed were saying Ali is Allah, and Ali burned them alive
so they invent other stuff, they try hard to deviate islam , just like they stick the gospels to jesus of nazareth, they tred to create a fictious person for the quran.Another person loved by the sunni, hated by the Shiaa
his name is Abu Bakrall coran only people, get annoyed when they hear an attribute of a person who doesn't have a name, means there is something suspicious, so ABU HUREIRA , wich means "Father of the Cat" , is a fictious person, it has no name no notheing, except sotory here and there , that made pieces of a life of a person, and this name was used to invent toousands of Ahadiths
Another fictious person invented to Attaque the caracter of the prophet "AYSHA" , she was 6 years old, 9 years old married, suspect of prostitution IFK , thousands of ahadiths, kills 10000 companions in a conflit between her and "Ali"fictious person invented by tabari first, no one mentioned these names before tabari
Aysha is a person name, and not an arab, why does an arab name his daughter a persina, name specially persians hated arabs according to history. and aysha is supposedly one of the peophets Wives, the only virgin that he married, 2 years before he died , so when he died she was 11 years old, in the Shia , she slept with men left and right after the prophet, sounnah don't accept these hadiths, so it is obvious that this fictious person Aysha / persian name, was created to attack the caracter of prophet mohamed
Abu Bakr, loved by the sounnah , and hated by the shiaa also is a fictious person, no one know his name just like abu hureira , his name translates litteraly father of the virgin, Bakr = Virgin in arabic , and siddeq is a caracter, so no one knows his name, Abu Bekr is supposed to be the father of Aysha/ the only Bekr/virgin wife of the prophet. so if Abu Bakr existed, what's his real name?
Osman bin Afan , I don't have to go far to make the comparaison, Osman is a persian name, just like Salman the persian, imagine, Osman, Afan , even his second name is persian, sounds just like asfahan or Iran or asmahan osman afan , you don't have to look hard to see it
There is books who say Yazid is the one who appointed Hassa in the governement, because Yazid was hassan and hussein family , and Ali wasn't recorded their father at all, in the official documents in andalousia
Ali never existed.
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Salaaman brother LB13,
A simple suggestion "Forget about them", it is simply waste of time.
5105
5105 O you who believe, you are responsible for yourselves; none who are misguided can harm you if you are guided. To Allah is your return, all of you, and then He will inform you of what you have done.
2133
2134
2133 Or were you present when death came to Jacob and he said to his sons Who shall you serve from after me? They said Your god, and the god of your fathers Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac; One god and to Him we submit.
2134 That is a nation that has passed away; to them is what they have earned, and to you is what you have earned; and you will not be asked regarding what they did.
Same also in 2140-141
When you are not going to answer for the ones quoted in 2133 then surely Allah is not going to ask you for the names you mentioned and all this thread is about, so why wasting time?
This is just a suggestion brother, rest is up to you.
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaaman brother LB13,
A simple suggestion "Forget about them", it is simply waste of time.
5105
5105 O you who believe, you are responsible for yourselves; none who are misguided can harm you if you are guided. To Allah is your return, all of you, and then He will inform you of what you have done.
2133
2134
2133 Or were you present when death came to Jacob and he said to his sons Who shall you serve from after me? They said Your god, and the god of your fathers Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac; One god and to Him we submit.
2134 That is a nation that has passed away; to them is what they have earned, and to you is what you have earned; and you will not be asked regarding what they did.
Same also in 2140-141
When you are not going to answer for the ones quoted in 2133 then surely Allah is not going to ask you for the names you mentioned and all this thread is about, so why wasting time?
This is just a suggestion brother, rest is up to you.
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan,
It is only a cultural subject, I just wrote what i thaught, not in a religious way, but because people keep telling me we can take hadiths as historical documents, so imagine, changing history will change the future, it happened in the past
exemple, the ottoman empire, took kids, trained them , educated them, the became nationalists, and after they concuered their own countries for the ottoman empire.about talking about them in a guidance way, it wrong of course, we have the quran , the only one delivered directly from god.
and the verses you just sent, cooled me down LOL
Salam brother
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Salaaman bro,
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It is only a cultural subject, I just wrote what i thaught, not in a religious way, but because people keep telling me we can take hadiths as historical documents, so imagine, changing history will change the future, it happened in the past
exemple, the ottoman empire, took kids, trained them , educated them, the became nationalists, and after they concuered their own countries for the ottoman empire.about talking about them in a guidance way, it wrong of course, we have the quran , the only one delivered directly from god.
and the verses you just sent, cooled me down LOL
Salam brother
The best way I found to change the future is the way of AlRasools they never try to change the history, but they call always to the way of Allah, they always try to form a relation of people with Allah.
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12108 Say This is my way, I invite to Allah in full disclosure, myself and whoever follows me. And glory be to Allah; and I am not of the polytheists.
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4133 And who is better in saying than he who invites to Allah, and does good works, and says I am one of those who have submitted.
and the verses you just sent, cooled me down LOL
I know brother, this happens because of frustration. It happens to me once and Allah guided me to the following aayats
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633 We know that you are saddened by what they say; and they are not rejecting you, but it is the revelations of Allah which the wicked disregard.
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634 And Messengers before you were denied, but they were patient for what they were denied, and they were harmed until Our victory came to them; there is no changing the words of Allah. News of the messengers has come to you.
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635 And if their aversion has become too much for you, then perhaps you could make a tunnel in the earth, or a ladder to the heavens, and bring them a sign. Had Allah willed, He would have gathered them to the guidance; so do not be of the ignorant ones.
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
635
635 And if their aversion has become too much for you, then perhaps you could make a tunnel in the earth, or a ladder to the heavens, and bring them a sign. Had Allah willed, He would have gathered them to the guidance; so do not be of the ignorant ones.
And if their deliberate refraining is heavy upon you then if you were able that you could find a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the Sky, then for reason bring to them some unprecedented demonstrative sign. And if this were the will of Allah indeed He could have gathered them towards the Al-Huda
Therefore do not be from amongst the emotionalists.Feeling grief has nothing to do with "ignorance-ignorant".
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633
633 We know that you are saddened by what they say; and they are not rejecting you, but it is the revelations of Allah which the wicked disregard.
O you the Messenger We certainly know that indeed it grieves you what they people keep saying in public;
since/for reason that they do not publicly contradict/accuse you of any falsity rather these evil/distorters of fact/unjust people deliberately and knowingly deny the Aa'ya'at of Allah deliberately and knowingly dispute the authenticity/truth of the stated Aa'ya'at of Allah, by declaring them as lie/false in public. Since the Messenger is narrating to people ONLY the Aa'ya'at of Allah, i.e. Grand Qur'aan therefore, what those peculiar people are calling lies is not synonymous to refuting the words of the Messenger as lies, hence . It should be noted that Allah is confirming that even the worst of the people of his era of corporeal life never doubted the truthfulness of the Messenger and never attributed to him any saying other than the Grand Qur'aan which he recited for people. Anyone, notwithstanding how reputed a scholar he might be, who attributes to the Messenger any thing which is not written in the Qur'aan or for which there is no tangible evidence from knowledge, indeed that person lies.
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It's the problem of using proper names instead of acknowledging that ayn-lam-waw, when used in The Quran, is not a proper name, and instead is, in the instances that loxbox has mentioned, used to describe God as something exalted, high, etc.
From PRL Ayn-Lam-Waw = to be high, elevated, lofty, exalted, ascend, overcome, be proud/upon/over, go up, rise in rank or dignity, raise, take up, mount, overtop.