Indonesia: Allahu Akbar! Kill Kill Kill!
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A barbaric and sadistic behavior performed by Sunnis fanatics towards the 'INFIDEL' Ahmadis..
It happens in Indonesia few days ago.. you can see men in uniform does nothing to stop the incident.The prelude
Kafir! Kafir!
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFcNFjbjPX4The aftermath (WARNING Sadistic violence)
Die! you kafir! die! Allahu Akbar!
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgY6N6Qe5EAWhat really sadden me the most is that it seems the government of Indonesia (who claimed to be secular) yet again blame the incident to the 'misconduct of the Ahmadis'.. totally insane!!
"Indonesian Minister of Religion blamed the victims, saying that Ahmadis were proselytizing and brought it upon themselves,"
http//jgrayman.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/reflections-on-recent-religious-violence-in-indonesia/Salam / Peace
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Tut tut!! Makes you sick inside seeing how religion can hypnotise you to do things against the natural order.
The authority should do more to protect the minority as can be seen Ahmadis are a minority in Indonesia. Makes you think what they would do to those who completely reject hadith living near that vicinity &
PEACE
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Hi, Indonesian here
The Ahmadis had been targeted for elimination by hardline Sunni groups for several years. The government has not done anything to stop them, and the people are suspicious that the violent groups are kept by the gov't to make riots taht will steal the public attention if the gov't gets bad press from corruption and incompetence.
And sad to say that this week there had been not one, but two religious riots in Indonesia. Two days after the anti-Ahmadi attack, in another town there had been a trial in which a Jehova's Witness man gets 5 years jail time for blasphemy (he distributes pamphletes that slandered (Sunni) Islam). Outside the court, violent groups had been sent from out of town by parties unknown and they attack the police and churches.
Indonesians used to be known for religious tolerance but I'm sad to say that the hardliners here are spoiling that image.
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Salaam,
The people involved in the massacre of Ahmadis belong to the minority group called FPI (Defender of Islam), and they do not represent the Indonesian muslim community and most people have condemned their activity. They have tried to push for an Islamic nation, though haven?t received enough support. As much as most Indonesian muslims are conservative and traditional, I don?t think they?re heading towards extremism.
Anyway, it is tough for the government to support Ahmadis because it involves politics. Ahmadis are a minority whose number only amounts to 200,000 compared to more than 200,000,000. Less than 1% of Indonesians belongs to Ahmadiyya group. It becomes problematic for the government to protect the Ahmadis, the minority, because the government may as well lose their political power, considering that most traditional muslims do not see Ahmadiyya as a part of Islam. From my understanding, most muslims have problems with Ahmadiyya to be associated with Islam, and consider it as a separate religion. They have no problem acknowledging it as another belief system (under freedom of religious practice), but yeah, they just get caught up with the Islam labelling. Essentially that prevents the government from protecting the Ahmadis because they claim to be part of Islam, because the whole point of politics is basically saving your @$$ and maintaining power by satisfying the majority. Of course I do not agree with this philosophy, but just giving another view to look at. Even if someone wants to do something, unfortunately the circumstances won?t allow them. They too have challenges to overcome which basically boils down to protecting your ideology versus ensuring your survival.
In the past, there has been a spiritual figure, an open-minded muslim and academic, who openly speaks out for the minority and criticises fundamentalism (an ex-President, actually). It is sad that he has passed away and Indonesia now lacks a figure who has such courage and compassion. There are some, but I don?t think they give as much influence as he did (but other Indonesians in the forum can correct me in this). So yeah, there is a liberal Islam group (their website is islamlib.com if you guys are interested), which promotes open-minded and tolerant approach to Islam. Still branded as a group of heretics, but I guess the best chance that we?ve got at the moment in changing the mindset of Indonesian muslims. And really, every individual should try their best in setting examples in order to create changes.
By the way, from what I gather (I have not verified it myself), Ahmadis tend to be very exclusive and protective to their community. E.g. Ahmadiyya mosque is usually open and exclusive to its own group, and not too welcoming to other muslims (In Indonesia, everyone can visit and sleep over the mosques if they wish, which is not the case with Ahmadiyya mosque). This adds a bit more tension between Ahmadis and other muslims. Anyway, I am not finger-pointing or blaming Ahmadis in this instance, just want to point out the fact that exclusivity does nothing in terms of improving tolerance and unified community. If people are more open, not putting too much emphasis on exclusivity or identity, they?ll be more able to talk and exchange ideas, which in turn creates a more tolerant community because they get to know and understand each other.
The government has not done anything to stop them, and the people are suspicious that the violent groups are kept by the gov't to make riots taht will steal the public attention if the gov't gets bad press from corruption and incompetence.
I actually read a journal that argued FPI was a product of the New Order regime. It was fostered as an armed group while being promised an Islamic state, though the government's idea at the time was to use such group as a distraction from various political issues then. But as soon as the New Order era collapsed, the group went out of control and took its ownership by acting on its own. It basically rebelled. That is why, if you have noticed, that the beginning of Reformation era actually marked the emergence of "Islamic identity" in Indonesia. When I was young, I rarely saw any women in headscarves and now they're everywhere! Interesting theory, but I haven't read further to see if the claim is substantial.
Anyway, another riot? Any link you can provide?
Indonesians used to be known for religious tolerance but I'm sad to say that the hardliners here are spoiling that image.
I'd say most Indonesians are still tolerant. Banda Aceh aside, the government has not imposed any religious-based laws on their citizens, and most Indonesians are tolerant (that I know anyway). I guess it depends on which area.
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Anyway, another riot? Any link you can provide?
http//www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/fresh-religious-violence-in-central-java/421405
Happened this Tuesday at Temanggung. Mob attacked 3 churches and 1 Christian school. Locals say they're outsiders. Police was in their riot gear but did nothing except practice the Roman testudo formation against flying rocks.
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Hi, Indonesian here (
Indonesians used to be known for religious tolerance but I'm sad to say that the hardliners here are spoiling that image.
Glad to have Indonesian on the forum, you should invite more of your friends to this forum..
I believe so, I have visited Indonesia and found many of them are quite tolerance, well I have visited Bali many times and glad to find that most of them are Hindus.. ) It is quite sad and shocking for me upon seeing this video (Which sent through email from my Indonesian friend).
It seems that you got yourself an opportunity to 'correcting the wrong' there Andya.. a tough challenge indeed..
People like you should speak up more to the public..Salam / Peace
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Jafar,
There are plenty of Indonesians here. They're just very quiet p. (I am an Indonesian too btw).
But yeah, "speaking out" is quite hard. You can do it to your closest friends, I don't know about the others. Because news travel fast there, as if all the walls and trees have ears >.<. Next time you know, the whole neighbour knows what you've been up to. But you, I guess setting example will be better than speaking out.
BTW Jafar, why are you glad to find out that most of Balinese are Hindus?
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Because it's a clear evidence that Indonesia is definitely not a Saudi Arabia..
Salam / Peace
You should go to Central Java/Yogyakarta then. You will be surprised to see that even if the majority of the population is muslim, you won't feel the Saudia Arabia atmosphere. Some old Christian chruches are preserved and listed as heritage sites. Ancient Hindus and Buddhist temples are abundant. Don't make assumption based on the stupid acts of extreme minority. As much as the Indonesian muslims are the majority there, only a small amount adopts "Saudi Arabia" culture.
Salaam.
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Salaam,
There are plenty of Indonesians here. They're just very quiet p. (I am an Indonesian too btw).
are you talking about me, sister?
As much as the Indonesian muslims are the majority there, only a small amount adopts "Saudi Arabia" culture.
yeah, but they keep growing day by day, headscarves are everywhere now.. we keep losing our Indonesian identity..
about this assault, from the recent news, it is suspected as an organized assault, because
- The police already knew that they will be an assault that day, but they didn't send enough forces to prevent it nor they do anything to evacuate the ahmadis
- The attacker wear blue/green ribbon in their chest/clothes, for what?
- The cameraman, the video is professionally taken (not the one from mobile phone), the angle is perfect, the length is long and detailed, from beginning to the end and he can safely take the picture in the midst of that chaos, no police or attacker seem disturbed by his existence, who is he?
and anyway, it's not a big secret in here that the police is already fall to the hand of the fanatics Sunni (FPI especially)..
oh almost forgot, The President already stated that any violent organization need to be disbanded, what the FPI says? they say "if you disbanded us, we will overthrow this government and make the president as the next Ben Ali"
looking as this circumstances and the rising of arabisation in Indonesia in the past decade (the headscarves are everywhere!!!!), mayber there will be no more Indonesia, but instead changed to indorabia.. sigh..
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are you talking about me, sister? p
Hahaha Bro, that is enough to get you talking! I understand that you have been busy with your the-, okay I will stop.
No, not just you. There are more, join the discussion people!! p
yeah, but they keep growing day by day, headscarves are everywhere now.. we keep losing our Indonesian identity..
What you call "Indonesian identity" is very loosely termed. Indonesian culture consists of many sub-cultures, which is due to the fact that Indonesia consists of more than ten thousand islands, and many distinct languages and cultures p. What is being represented as "Indonesian culture" nowadays is mostly Javanese and Balinese cultures since they are the most commercial. So yeah... besides our identity is shaped by outside influence anyway. Think of Indian and Arabic traders who settled in Indonesia a thousand years ago p.
But yeah... I am sliding off track now. Collective identity is overrated anyway. It separates you from other people, because you may feel you belong to "the better group".
- The police already knew that they will be an assault that day, but they didn't send enough forces to prevent it nor they do anything to evacuate the ahmadis
Interesting. Care to share the link? Has the source been verified? I mean... Indonesians LOVE to make up news just for the OMG factor! So one needs to be a bit more careful when digesting information provided in Indonesia news nowadays.
- The attacker wear blue/green ribbon in their chest/clothes, for what?
I would love to see photos! Do you have any idea what the ribbon may symbolise?
- The cameraman, the video is professionally taken (not the one from mobile phone), the angle is perfect, the length is long and detailed, from beginning to the end and he can safely take the picture in the midst of that chaos, no police or attacker seem disturbed by his existence, who is he?
Aaahhh, how I love Indonesian conspiracy! But yeah... Indonesian police seems to get used to the presence of journalists/news reporters. I have noticed that on several occasions.
and anyway, it's not a big secret in here that the police is already fall to the hand of the fanatics Sunni (FPI especially)..
From my understanding, feel free to correct me if I am wrong, FPI has not actually gotten much support from Indonesian muslim community. Hence why Indonesia as an Islamic state has not been realised (and I don't want to use the word 'yet' shudders).
oh almost forgot, The President already stated that any violent organization need to be disbanded, what the FPI says? they say "if you disbanded us, we will overthrow this government and make the president as the next Ben Ali"
I thing the better question will be does FPI have enough power and support to overthrow the government? Isn't the President backed by the armed forces? But I hope the day that FPI overthrows Indonesian government will never ever happen, I fear that it will turn into Taliban 2nd. And I won't step my foot back in Indonesia if that ever happens!
looking as this circumstances and the rising of arabisation in Indonesia in the past decade (the headscarves are everywhere!!!!), mayber there will be no more Indonesia, but instead changed to indorabia.. sigh..
Don't worry, not many can speak Arabic there so Indorabia is still a long shot D! Besides if you ever come up to Sydney, I'll take you to an area that makes you feel you are in Middle-East haha. So Indonesia is still pretty mild.
Anyway, I think Indonesia will collapse as a nation if it pushes for Arabisation. I mean, a high percentage of Indonesian capital income is contributed by BALI, which is predominantly Hindu state. So Indonesia will need A LOT of luck if it forces Bali to be Arabised. I mean, Bali has wanted to declare independence for a long time, and Indonesia will push the button even harder if it imposes "Islamic" rules in the country. Besides, Papua has also been demanding independence (from what I recall), due to the lack of "mutual identity" between Papuan and the rest of Indonesian. So yeah, Islamic state will mean farewell Bali and Papua, which will be followed by the disintegration of Indonesia into smaller independent states (I envision Java island as "Indonesia".
So looking at the current political trend, I don't think Indonesian government will push for an Islamic state. The government won't let that happen (unless it is overthrown).
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Most traditional moderate Muslims including Indonesians, Maldivians,pakistanis will opress Ahmadis when ever they see them.
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Interesting how the discussion now has gone into 'indonesians politics'.. )
In which I'm not an expert.. )From my (simple) perspective, what I see in the video is
- A group of thugs attacking people.
- A subset of those thugs murder (at least) two people.
- The men in uniform (police?? they're too fat to be a policemen for me, does indonesian police forgot to do their exercise and eat donuts all the time too??) are neglecting their task of protecting those poor people. Infact I saw in those video that one of the men in uniform are also 'filming' the 'murder process' using his mobile phone and doing nothing to prevent it.
What need to be done is
- Identify those thugs who are sadistically murdering those poor people, which is very easy to do thanks to the video.
- Apprehend them and charge them for murder in court.
I don't know about indonesian law, but personally I'm against death penalty (hanging, beheading, electric char).
A maximum of life prison for murder is just enough for me. - Put forward a sanction against those men in uniform due to their negligence of task.
Salam / Peace