Quran Study Group

Wakas

peace All,

Brother Kyle, I think you were referring to this verse - 1276

Also, I found another verse which clarifies DYN further, but I'm not at home at the moment, but I will post it when I return, GW.

It essentially seems to mean "that which is due", from my brief early study. It does seem 'obligation' fits better. Aidid Safar goes for 'order'.

Wakas

sabo

Salam Marie,

thanks for reply.

I am aware what is written in dictionaries, but the whole point of my debate is that I don't believe what is written in these dictionaries regarding to the root d-y-n

I am also aware that there are many words which are written the same and pronounced differently but my debate here is about the word d-y-n where I see that both dayn-deen are made to appear different, however they are not.

A debt is a specialized meaning of the general meaning of the root, which means "a financial obligation" here the context let's us add the word "financial" obligation, that's it. But it is still an obligation, and not a system, a system is rather "sunna" and not "deen"

Try to apply this to 2132, 193, 217, 256, I found that doesn't make sence when "deen" is substituted by "dayn/debt"

2132 says that God has chosen for us an obligation, that is that we care to don't die except submitting to him.

2193 says that the obligation should be to God alone and we have no obligation towards other gods/mullahs/prophets/etc...

2217 any one who turns from his obligation to God alone would have his deeds nullified

2256 you should force no body to follow this obligation, everybody is free to choose it.

I see it makes a perfect sense, given the definition of obligation below. If you see it as a system, then as you wish

the action of obligating oneself to a course of action (as by a promise or vow)
something (as a formal contract, a promise, or the demands of conscience or custom) that obligates one to a course of action
a debt security (as a mortgage or corporate bond)
a commitment (as by a government) to pay a particular sum of money; also an amount owed under such an obligation <unable to meet its obligations, the company went into bankruptcy>
a condition or feeling of being obligated
a debt of gratitude
something one is bound to do DUTY, RESPONSIBILITY

best regards
sabo

marie

Salam Sabo,

Salam Marie,

thanks for reply.

I am aware what is written in dictionaries, but the whole point of my debate is that I don't believe what is written in these dictionaries regarding to the root d-y-n

I agree, but in the same time you use the dictionary to say this

A debt is a specialized meaning of the general meaning of the root

Both "dayn" and "deen" exist.

Let us the quran explains itself. The goal is not to fit one of the dictionary meaning of the word " dayn" to the quran but to seek the best explanation according the context of the verse.

Debt "dayn" could be "a financial obligation", that's OK.

Try to apply this to 2132, 193, 217, 256, I found that doesn't make sence when "deen" is substituted by "dayn/debt"

2132 says that God has chosen for us an obligation, that is that we care to don't die except submitting to him.

2193 says that the obligation should be to God alone and we have no obligation towards other gods/mullahs/prophets/etc...

2217 any one who turns from his obligation to God alone would have his deeds nullified

2256 you should force no body to follow this obligation, everybody is free to choose it.

I see it makes a perfect sense, given the definition of obligation below. If you see it as a system, then as you wish )

In my last post, I thought that obedience could be one of the meaning for the word "deen"

In 2193, we read "alddeenu lillahi" could also mean obedience 'is' to Allah

We can say
"dintu bideeni Allah" which could mean I obeyed Him

The idea of obedience is consolidated by what is said in 319

"Inna alddeena AAinda Allahial-islamu"(319)

I prefer to translate "alddeenu lillahi" as "the obedience should be to the god than "the obligation should be to God"

In arabic, we use the word "waajib" / "alwaajibat" to say obligation(s)

I think the best definition of the word deen is in 319 the deen of Allah = al-islam (Submission to His Will)

There is one deen (singular form) and not several deen and we found the definition of al-islam through the quran.
In the quran "deen" doesn't exist in plural form like the word "salat" and "salawat"

Marie

sabo

Salam Marie,

In arabic, we use the word "waajib" / "alwaajibat" to say obligation(s)

Marie, this is a modern arabic understanding of the word waajib. You mix that with the classical arabic which has nothing to do with obligation (check verse 2236 and you will see that your explanation of the word waajib is faaaaaar from being correct)

There is one deen (singular form) and not several deen and we found the definition of al-islam through the quran.
In the quran "deen" doesn't exist in plural form like the word "salat" and "salawat"

This proofs nothing, because also the plural of "dayn" (as u prefer to pronounce it) is not mentioned in the Quran.

Best regards,
sabo

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

Excellent debating going on here, trying to keep up.

Wakas, I look foward to the verse that you will be bringing, hopefully it will swing my understanding one way or the other.

Just in thought, I am still having trouble with the thought of "owing" something to One that needs nothing. "Debt" and "obligation" seem to contradict this idea. I hope I am not causing anyone to repeat what they may have said a million times, but how do you reconcile that?

A system seems to fit best. I cannot see "debt" or "obligation" fitting in the below verse.

So he began with their bags before his brother?s bag. Then he brought it out of his brother?s bag. It was such that We planned for Joseph, for he would not have been able to take his brother under the King?s system, except that God wished it so. We raise the degrees of whom We please, and over every one of knowledge is the All Knowledgeable.

sabo

Salam idolfree1,

I have a question for you. Do you view the civil law of a country as a system or as an obligation or both?

Best regards,
sabo

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Sabo,

I have a question for you. Do you view the civil law of a country as a system or as an obligation or both?

I view it as a system, not an obligation.

For example, there are laws here in the U.S. that I disagree with, so I am not Obligated to follow them, but I do recognize a wicked system when I see one.

I looked up the word Obligation in the dictionary, this is what I found.

Main Entry ob?li?ga?tion
Pronunciation "?-bl&-'gA-sh&n
Function noun
1 the action of obligating oneself to a course of action (as by a promise or vow)
2 a something (as a formal contract, a promise, or the demands of conscience or custom) that obligates one to a course of action b a debt security (as a mortgage or corporate bond) c a commitment (as by a government) to pay a particular sum of money; also an amount owed under such an obligation <unable to meet its obligations, the company went into bankruptcy>
3 a a condition or feeling of being obligated b a debt of gratitude
4 something one is bound to do DUTY, RESPONSIBILITY

This makes my choice even harder as I can see where I agree and disagree based on the definition.

In number 1, it is compared to a promise, I would say that the covenant is that promise.

In number 4, it is called a condition or feeling that one is BOUND to, the God has not BOUND us, but said there is no compulsion.

Does anyone see anything I might be missing?

Wakas

peace All,

Just in thought, I am still having trouble with the thought of "owing" something to One that needs nothing. "Debt" and "obligation" seem to contradict this idea. I hope I am not causing anyone to repeat what they may have said a million times, but how do you reconcile that?

You are correct in the sense that The One needs nothing, but if we recall the amana/trust, then things should be clearer. We accepted the amana/trust, thus in doing so are under obligation to fulfill/recognise it.

I think 'obligation' fits ok in 1276.

The other verse I was referring to was 2425 (also see the term 'yuwaffi' in 357, 1115, 11111, 3530, 4619).

Wakas

sabo

Salam idolfree1, Wakas & all,

@idolfree1 Well then we should study the issue deeper or stop at this point. Maybe also we are both right and we don't see it

But consider the argument of wakas, I didn't consider this argument before and I think it makes this explanation more logical and goes for obligation. The more argument which i've presented and was ignored in this humble research was that both words "dayn" and "deen" are coming from the same root, and actually are the same verb with just a slight grammatical extension. I think you should analyse this more.

@wakas thanks a lot. That helped even better.

Best regards,
sabo

marie

Salam Sabo,

Salam Marie,

In arabic, we use the word "waajib" / "alwaajibat" to say obligation(s)

Marie, this is a modern arabic understanding of the word waajib. You mix that with the classical arabic which has nothing to do with obligation (check verse 2236 and you will see that your explanation of the word waajib is faaaaaar from being correct)

You know in Arabic, a word can have several significances according to the context. The verse 2236 is not a proof that waajib doesn't mean "obligation".
You and me, we know only modern Arabic and personnally I dont trust any dictionary, the best dictionnary is the quran. In the light of the quran, I understand that

Deen of Allah = Al-islam / the submission (319)

I can substitute the word "deen" by "the submission" in 2193, 929

2193
"alddeenu lillahi" or "al-islamu lillahi" or "the submission should be to the god"

929
"wala yadeenoona deena alhaqqi"---> "they do not uphold the truth islam / submission

The quran explains itself.

The verb "wajaba" in 2236 has also several meanings according to the context (for ex to palpitate, to fall, to die, to eat a meal, danger ....etc)

Ahmad Shabir
2236 And the camels! We have appointed them among the symbols (of obedience) to Allah; in them is much good for you. (They carry you and your loads and then help you host one another). So mention Allah?s Name over them when they are drawn up in lines (for sacrifice). And after they have fallen to the ground lifeless, eat from their flesh, and feed the contented poor who beg not as well as the poor who ask. Remember that Allah has subjected these animals to you so that you may be practically grateful.

FM
2236. And the plump animals for offering, We have made them for you as decrees from God, in them is goodness for you. So mention God?s name upon them while being orderly, so once their body becomes still, then eat from them and give food to the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.

Waalbudna jaAAalnahalakum min shaAAa-iri Allahi lakum feehakhayrun faothkuroo isma Allahi AAalayhasawaffa fa-itha wajabat junoobuhafakuloo minha waatAAimoo alqaniAAa waalmuAAtarrakathalika sakhkharnaha lakum laAAallakumtashkuroona

There is one deen (singular form) and not several deen and we found the definition of al-islam through the quran.
In the quran "deen" doesn't exist in plural form like the word "salat" and "salawat"

This proofs nothing, because also the plural of "dayn" (as u prefer to pronounce it) is not mentioned in the Quran.
Best regards,
sabo

Sorry, D Y N is mentioneed in the quran, there are 3 possibilities it could correspond to 1) deen, 2)dayn or 3) deen and dayn.

I leave you with peace

Marie

sabo

Salam,

You know in Arabic, a word can have several significances according to the context. The verse 2236 is not a proof that waajib doesn't mean "obligation".

It is true, that in arabic, like in any language, a word can have several meanings. However, this second suggested meaning is not used in the Quran, so it turns into a guess-work if the word "wajaba" means obligation in the classical arabic or not. The Quran clearly doesn't use such word for obligation, thus the information, that says "wajaba=obligation in classical arabic" is not proven from the Quranic usage!

You and me, we know only modern Arabic and personnally I dont trust any dictionary, the best dictionnary is the quran.

Is the Quran a dictionary? shock According to what I see inside the Quran, there are so many words which are used one time in the Quran and there is no meaning explained for these words in the Quran. So how can you explain this assertion?

e.g. for my assertion
In 2227 the word Dhamir (&#1585 is used and there is no explanation for this word in the Quran. You can guess its a camel, horse, donkey, bycicle, etc... but a fact, which remains is, that this word is not defined as a dictionary definition in the Quran and you can only guess what it means if you don't refer to any text outside the Quran.

I can substitute the word "deen" by "the submission"

few days ago it deen was system and now its the submission and who knows what it will be tomorrow

Sorry, D Y N is mentioneed in the quran, there are 3 possibilities it could correspond to 1) deen, 2)dayn or 3) deen and dayn.

or 4) the pronounciation "dayn" is false and it can be also deen or 5) the pronounciation dayn and deen both are correct, but both have the same meaning

I leave you with peace

thanks, better than leaving me with something else lol shock

Best regards,
sabo

marie

Peace

This is just my understanding, I don't apply the same meaning to the word salat in all verses. In the same way, I think that the word D Y N in the light of the quran has a several meanings, in my humble view I consider obedience, submission, authority, system are the best explanations for the this word.

Allah defines His deen clearly = Al-islam / The submission

I respect your view, but "the Obligation" is for me an interpretation for
D Y N based on the meaning given by the dictionnary.

I seek the definition of salat, zakat, siyam, deen,... only in the light of the quran because I believe the quran explains itself.

My understanding will evolves Inshaa Allah

Allah knows best

Regards

Wakas

peace All,

The possible root meanings of the word in question (from Lane)

Dal-Ya-Nun = obedience/submissiveness, servility, religion, high/elevated/noble/glorious rank/condition/state, took/receive a loan or borrowed upon credit, become indebted, in debt, under the obligation of a debt, contract a debt, repay/reimburse a loan, rule/govern/manage it, possess/own it, become habituated/accustomed to something, confirmation, death (because it is a debt everyone must pay), a particular law/statute, system, custom/habit/business, a way/course/manner of conduct/acting, repayment/compensation

Wakas

marie

Peace brother Wakas, all

Thanks for the information

Allah bless you

Marie

Layla_Hanifa_Amatullah

Peace be with you all,

What is ad-deen?
The best source to find explanation is , of course, the Quran. So let?s have a look at its verses and think?

How many deens?

It seems that there are many deens mentioned in the Quran. They can be divided into
a) deen associated with God only, and here there are many attributes/ names
Alladeenu lillahi (2193, 1102)
Alldeena ? islamu (319)
deeni alhaqqi (929, 933, 4828, 619) no al- !? because of grammar?
Aldeeni alqayyimu (936, 1240, 3030) straight, firm, preserved, sustained (qaama)
aldeeni haneefan (3030)
addeenu alkhalisu (393)

Please notice that in the majority of cases such deen is with al- (the definite article) (exceptions, e.g. 929)

b) there are also deens associated with others

Of ?the People of the Book?
324 This because they say "The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days" For their forgeries deceive them as to their own religion (deenihim)
3032 Those who split up their deen (Religion), and become (mere) sects/ parties,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself! (3033- it is associated with idolatry)
Of Mushriks
933 It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and deeni alhaqqi (the Religion of Truth), to proclaim it over addeeni kulluhi (all religion), even though the Pagans may detest (it).
Of Arabu
4916 Say "What! Will ye instruct Allah about your religion? But Allah knows all that is in the heavens and on earth He has full knowledge of all things (4917 submission to God is not their favour to Him but it is His mercy to make them guided)

?Individual? deen (?)
3914 God is the only One I serve, devoting my deen to Him
1096 for you- your deen, for me- my deen

In those cases, most occurrences of deen are without al- (the definite article)

Ad-deen

associated with God
729 ad-deen only to God alone (khalasa pure, unmixed, free, alone, exclusive, sincere?)
Sent through rasul together with hudan (guidance), to be victorious over other deens (516)
933 It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and deeni alhaqqi (the Religion of Truth), to proclaim it over addeeni kulluhi (all religion), even though the Pagans may detest (it). Also 4828
516 ad-deen must come to pass (it will be victorious)
619 It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). (6113 promises believers help from God and victory)
1101-3 when the final victory comes from God, people will accept ad-deeni Allahi in groups/ big numbers
1652 ad-deen always for God only (wasiban= to come, to be, to dawn/ start ?)
392-3 Verily it is We Who have revealed the Book to thee in Truth so serve Allah, offering Him sincere devotion./ Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? But those who take for protectors other than Allah (say) "We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah." Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful.

3911 ad-deen to serve God Say "Verily, I am commanded to serve Allah with sincere devotion;
3914 Say "It is Allah I serve, with my sincere (and exclusive) devotion
4014 even when others dislike it
4065-66 and associated with submission
no ad-deen without God?s leave
4221 What! have they partners (in godhead), who have established for them some religion without the permission of Allah? Had it not been for the Decree of Judgment, the matter would have been decided between them (at once). But verily the Wrong-doers will have a grievous Penalty.
985 serving God by obeying His deen, being a truthful (hanifan)

Communal thing
Abraham and Ismail (112 asked for ?a community of submitters? from his descendants. Jacob admonished his children that ?God has pointed out ad-deena for you so do not to die except as submitters? (2133)
2134 each community of believers is responsible for their deeds only
3032 human deens divided (parties, sects) and unite only in case of troubles
4213 make no divisions in ad-deen (+4214

?Natural? thing
2278 no harrajin (difficulty, oppression, doubt, sin, disobedience) in ad-deen (here vs millah ibrahima!)
3030 ?the natural instinct (of ad-deeni hanifan) placed into people by God?

Connected with submission to God alone/ only or being a muslimun
Again, Abraham and Ismail prayed for ?a community of submitters? (112. Abraham himself submitted to God (1131) and so his children and Jacob (1132)
Ad-deen is islam - submission to God?s will (319-20)
3911-12 commanded to obey God?s deen and to be a muslimeen
4065-66 ad-deen and submission (Muhammad?s ?shahadah?, the same as Abraham?s!)

ad-deen is unchangeable
3030 God?s khalki (creation/ measure/ proportion/ sth determined) never changes
4213 The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which thou callest them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).

Ad-deen in case of troubles
1022, 2965 In cases of difficulty (the rough sea) people promise to obey ad-deen but fail to keep their word after they are saved
Also 3032-34 plus the element of division
3131-32

Establishing ad-deen
2256 there should be no compulsion in ad-deen. People are free to choose if they want to follow it since they are shown all signs and given the faculty of reasoning and free will to choose.
829 people tell lies/ are wrong about ad-deen (also 957)
320 believers can show others (eg. People of the Book, unlearnt) the message and discuss with them but not make them submit.
There are enemies of ad-deen (446)
2193, 839, 936 ad-deen is opposed to fitnah and the deeds of zaleemun (zalama; oppressionors, evil-doers, those in darkness, ignorance) ; believers are asked to fight them until ad-deen (and justice, peace, etc) is re-established but within limits and in accordance with the law of equality (2194)
912 the defence of deen only in case of an attack or a breach of an oath/ pledge/ covenant
608 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them for Allah loveth those who are just.
609 Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.

Teaching/ spreading ad-deen
Believers are obliged to help those who ask for help in ad-deen, with the exception of breaking a peace treaty while doing so (871) otherwise fitnah will prevail.
911 if disbelievers repent and establish Salat and Zakat- they are ?brethrens in ad-deen?
9122 believers themselves should devout their time and efforts to study ad-deen and share their knowledge with others
335 ?brothers in ad-deen? and names (?)

Ad-deenu alqayyimu
936 12 months and 4 ?sacred? months
1240 not serving idols (Joseph?s story)
3030 God?s khalki (creation/ measure/ proportion/ sth determined) never changes
3043 But set thou thy face to the right Religion before there come from Allah the Day which there is no chance of averting on that Day shall men be divided (in two).
985 obeying God, following ad-deen, establishing Salat and zakat, being truthful (hanifan)

Ad-deen to be obeyed before the Judgement Day
3043 But set thou thy face to the right Religion before there come from Allah the Day which there is no chance of averting on that Day shall men be divided. (ad-deen is always undivided)

When looking at the context of the deen verses, one may notice that they often appear when God?s unity or power are emphasized; here are some of the contexts

God?s power and ad-deen
2255 before 2256- no slumber, no sleep, no fatigue; encompasses, preserves and guards everything; no intercession but with His permission.
326 God of Power- maalik (with alif- just as in 14- maaliki yaumi addeeni) (after 324- false deen of People of the Book)
445 But Allah hath full knowledge of your enemies Allah is enough for a protector, and Allah is enough for a Helper. (before 446- Jews ridicule ad-deen)
840 If they refuse, be sure that Allah is your Protector - the best to protect and the best to help.
913 only God to be feared
1240 ?the command is for none but God?, whatever He has not issued people should not believe in (e.g. idols)
1648-50 + 52
2274-77 God powerful
2278 God the best Protector and Helper

God?s oneness and ad-deen
318 before 319- There is no god but He That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
448 (after 446) idolatry (such as ?slandering ad-deen? and changing the revelations) is not forgiven by God
730 misguided people take others (shayatina) as their guides and protectors (idolatry)
930-33 others being followed besides God (Izra, Jesus, priests)
1240 not serving idols (Joseph?s story)
1651 only One God to be obeyed and feared
2271-73 serving powerless idols
392-3 people take helpers besides God to take them near Him
4213-15 ad-deen vs polytheism (divisions within, following others? desires)

In the Quran, we may find a definition of ad-deen, even if it only a ?negative? definition
What is not ad-deen then? The whole sura 107 tells us that. In opposition we may say what ad-deen IS
Treating orphans well
Feeding the poor
Following Salat
Not showing off
Supporting neighbours (?) (the communal aspect?)

It is also worth noticing that even though most translators let their imagination run wild and translate deen into many different equivalents, the most popular one is still ?religion?. However, there is a difference between deen and other Arabic words, also translated as ?religion?, eg. millah, ibadah, sibghatun.
Millah (2130) esp 2278 (din vs millatah!)
Usu connected with Abraham (2130, 135) so maybe ad-deen when associated with God, millah when associated with a prophet?
Ibadah (212
Sibghatun (213

After looking closer at the Quran, I must admit that I feel I understand better what ad-deen is, and what ad-deen isn?t. However, I am still unable to give any equivalent for the translation purposes?

I wonder what your impressions are? Please share

With peace,

P.s. I used translations in the quotes but try to look at Arabic versions to when studying these...

Layla_Hanifa_Amatullah

Peace all,

In the previous post I elaborated a little about ad-deen. Now it is time for "yaumi ad-deeni". )

The common assumption is that ?yaumi ad-deeni? and the Last/ Judgement Day are the same. I do not think so. First of all, why then different names being given to them in the Quran, such as ?yaumi al-ahiri? or ?yaumi yubas?tuna? (1536)? Of course, it may be because they refer to different aspects of the same day/ time (judgement, resurrection of the dead, etc) but is it only? Let us look at the Quran?

The first context (after sura 1, of course) is when Iblis refuses to prostrate before Adam. As a consequence of his disobedience, Iblis is banished from Paradise and cursed

1535
"And the curse shall be on thee till the day of Judgment."
"You have incurred My condemnation until the Day of Judgment."
Wa-inna AAalayka allaAAnata ila yawmialddeeni

However, Iblis asks Rabb to postpone his ?curse? till later, i.e. till the time of the resurrection

1536 (Iblis) said "O my Lord! give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised."
Qala rabbi faanthirneeila yawmi yubAAathoona
1537 (Allah) said "Respite is granted thee
Qala fa-innaka mina almunthareena
1538 "Till the Day of the Time appointed."
Ila yawmi alwaqti almaAAloomi

A similar context/ situation and the name nomenclature can be found in 3878-81

3878
"And My curse shall be on thee till the Day of Judgment."
"You have incurred My condemnation until the Day of Judgment."
Wa-inna AAalayka laAAnatee ila yawmialddeeni

My conclusion thus is that ?yaumi ad-deeni? will happen/ start to happen BEFORE the resurrection and (logically and chronologically) before the Judgment.

The next context is about Abraham talking to his father and his people. He assures of his submission to Rabbi al-a?alameena and expresses hope that God will forgive his mistakes

2682
"And who, I hope, will forgive me my faults on the day of Judgment.
"The One who hopefully will forgive my sins on the Day of Judgment.
Waallathee atmaAAu anyaghfira lee khatee-atee yawma alddeeni

Since we can ask for God?s forgiveness at any time of our lives, Abraham, the prophet, certainly cannot be an exception to this rule. At the time of Judgment it will be too late to change anything in our lives?
Later, Abraham prays to God to make him one of the righteous and the inheritors of Jannah (2683-85) and then mentions ?yaumi yubaathoona?, clearly associated with the resurrection and judgement

2687 "And let me not be in disgrace on the Day when (men) will be raised up;-
Wala tukhzinee yawma yubAAathoona
2688 "The Day whereon neither wealth nor sons will avail
Yawma la yanfaAAu malun walabanoona
(?)

It seems that again those days are not identical.

The next context brings ?yaumi ad-deeni? closer to the commonly-believed Judgment Day

3720
They will say, "Ah! Woe to us! This is the Day of Judgment!"
They will say, "Woe to us; this is the Day of Judgment."
Waqaloo ya waylana hathayawmu alddeeni

However, I think that the resurrected admit that the day/ time of ad-deen is established and thus they will be summoned to answer for their deeds and punished (3721-26).

3726 Nay, but that day they shall submit (to Judgment);
Bal humu alyawma mustaslimoona

Verse 26 emphasizes the fact that everybody, even disbelievers, will be submitted (remember ad-deen itself? Equaled with submission to the only God, the Almighty?)

In 516 the Quran assures us that ?ad-deen will certainly come to pass/ happen?. Then it says

5112
They ask, "When will be the Day of Judgment and Justice?"
They question the Day of Judgment.
Yas-aloona ayyana yawmu alddeeni

Disbelievers question the arrival of that time when ad-deen will prevail and naturally, it will bring their judgment and punishment too (5113).

Then we have sura 56. Before the context is obviously about the Hereafter. However, verse 56 is just a general statement at the time of ad-deen, God?s justice will prevail and naturally, those guilty of associating anything with Him and not submitting to Him before will ?reap what they have sown?. (?nuzuluhum? may be also translated ?what they have prepared for themselves?)

5656
Such will be their entertainment on the Day of Requital!
Such is their share on the Day of Judgment.
Hatha nuzuluhum yawma alddeeni

Especially, when we look at what follows (56 57- 74)- verses that emphasize God?s (not only creative) Power that encompasses everything and everybody. That?s ad-deen the whole creation submitted to God only. (5660 ?nothing can stop us?)

And again remember what ad-deen is and what ad-deen isn?t (sura 107). In 7022-35 the Quran offers us a description of believers, one of their traits is

7026
And those who hold to the truth of the Day of Judgment;
They believe in the Day of Judgment
Waallatheena yusaddiqoonabiyawmi alddeeni

?adhabun? (judgment) is mentioned only in the next verse- which seems a chronological order rather than a description of the same day/ time.

Sura 74 do indeed talk about the Hereafter again but when ?yaumi ad-deeni? is mentioned, it is what the disbelievers are to say when confronted with the reality of the punishment. In retrospection, they admit not following ad-deen and believing in its time

7446
"And we used to deny the Day of Judgment,
"We disbelieved in the Day of Judgment.
Wakunna nukaththibu biyawmi alddeeni

Sura 82 is the most important one, especially that it gives 3 occurrences of the word ?deen? and also offers a definition of ?yaumi ad-deeni?!

Firstly, we are told that disbelievers, those who deny ad-deen (829) will be punished with Fire/ Hell

8215
Which they will enter on the Day of Judgment,
Will incur it on the Day of Judgment.
Yaslawnaha yawma alddeeni

However, ?yaslawnaha? (sala) has the meaning of ?enduring the heat (of the fire), burn, roast? , not ?entering?. Even if ?entering? is correct, then have a look at the following verses

8217
And what will explain to thee what the Day of Judgment is?
Awesome is the Day of Judgment.
Wama adraka ma yawmu alddeeni

8218
Again, what will explain to thee what the Day of Judgment is?
What a day; the Day of Judgment!
Thumma ma adraka mayawmu alddeeni

And most importantly

8219
(It will be) the Day when no soul shall have power (to do) aught for another For the command, that Day, will be (wholly) with Allah.
This is the day when no soul can help another soul, and all decisions, on that day, will belong to God.
Yawma la tamliku nafsun linafsinshay-an waal-amru yawma-ithin lillahi

That?s the definition we are looking for! ?Yaumi ad-deeni? is when to God only, the Almighty, the Powerful, all decisions belong. That?s ad-deen in ?full swing?. Of course, that will happen at the end of time as we know it, and what will follow will of course be the resurrection and the judgment and the punishment/ reward. But ?yaumi ad-deeni? itself does not seem to be about the judgment?

And the last occurrence

8311
Those that deny the Day of Judgment.
They do not believe in the Day of Judgment.
Allatheena yukaththiboonabiyawmi alddeeni

And here again, just as in sura 51 for example, the context may be that of the Hereafter but the verse is a general statement.

Let me now summarize

Ad-deen is associated with
God only
Total submission to God
God?s Power

At the moment there may be other deens but finally only ad-deeni Allahi will prevail. The time when this will happen is ?yaumi ad-deeni?. It is not ?day?, because our human measures won?t apply to it. Of course, the time of ad-deen will encompass Resurrection and Judgment Days/ time but it will be established before them (as suras 15 and 38 suggest).

What do you think?

With peace,

Layla_Hanifa_Amatullah

Peace with you all,

It seems that not many are willing to comment on the previous posts Shall I take it as agreement, disagreement, or indifference? I thought that the QSG project would be a shared effort of us all... ?

Anyway, my impressions on hmd

HMD (http//www.openburhan.com/ob_main_frame.html)

Hamd is for Allah only
2267, 4131, 61, 1173, 141, 148, 1675, 181, 2224, 2264, 2870, 3018, 3112, 3126, 341, 346, 351, 3515, 3929, 4142, 5724, 606, 641, 646, 858,
Also it is emphasized at the same time that God is free of all needs/wants (i.e. hmd is voluntary) as well as He is the Powerful Creator, the Possessor, the Judge and the One to be returned to.
Thus those who try to usurp the hmd for themselves will be punished
3188 Think not that those who exult in what they have brought about, and love to be praised for what they have not done,- think escape the penalty. For them is a penalty Grievous indeed.
RK Those who boast about their works, and wish to be praised for something they have not really done, should not think that they can evade the retribution. They have incurred a painful retribution.

Hamd is from
malaikah
230, 1313, 3975, 407, 425,

the guided ones (in paradise)
743, 1010, 3534, 3974,

believers (in general)
9112, 3215, 1103 (or just Muhammad?),

Ibrahim
1439,

Nuh and his followers
2328,

Dawood and Sulayman
2715,

Muhammad
1598, 17111, 20130, 2558, 2759, 2793, 2963, 3125, 4055, 5039, 5248,

even inanimate entities- thunder (1313)

Generally everything praises God
1744, 641,

In some contexts also hmd is connected with ?alm (knowledge)
2715 We gave (in the past) knowledge to David and Solomon And they both said "Praise be to Allah, Who has favoured us above many of his servants who believe!"
346 And those to whom knowledge has come see that the (Revelation) sent down to thee from thy Lord - that is the Truth, and that it guides to the Path of the Exalted (in might), Worthy of all praise.

The luck of knowledge make people unwilling to express hmd for God

3929 Allah puts forth a Parable a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a man belonging entirely to one master are those two equal in comparison? Praise be to Allah! but most of them have no knowledge.
3125 If thou ask them, who it is that created the heavens and the earth. They will certainly say, "Allah". Say "Praise be to Allah!" But most of them understand not.

I think that in the case of inanimate objects and "everything" (1744, 641) it means that they are submitted to God already, thus expressing hmd. Also they ways of expressing hmd may not be understandable for us (thus, there are many ways of praising God). People, as the ones that have been given free will and the choice, must decide if they want or not to submit and hmd God.

The phrase from 12 ?Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alaalameena? is repeated in
645, 1010, 37182, 3975, 4065, (4536),

With the above-mentioned connection with 'alm and a previous analysis of alameena it seems that 12 can indeed mean " Praise be to God, the rabb of those who know/ knowledgable." What do you think?

In connection with this apparently easy-to-grasp concept I have two doubts

in 1752 are there disbelievers or believers who will praise God at the moment of resurrection? (If it is disbelievers it is then another proof that only after knowledge/ certainty comes to them, they are willing to praise God- the importance of knowledge in the process of belief and praise; if it is believers, then as in 9112 etc).

How do you understand that verse?
1779 Wamina allayli fatahajjad bihi nafilatanlaka AAasa an yabAAathaka rabbuka maqaman mahmoodan

Because the translation given on the burhan site, as well as Khalifa's, make no sense... e.g. And pray in the small watches of the morning (it would be) an additional prayer (or spiritual profit) for thee soon will thy Lord raise thee to a Station of Praise and Glory!

Looking forward to your comments,

With peace,

Wakas

peace LHA,

Because the translation given on the burhan site, as well as Khalifa's, make no sense...

Why do you feel it makes no sense?

Wakas

Layla_Hanifa_Amatullah

Peace Wakas,

I am simply confused by the translations Plus I think there may be something more in the verse I mean the meaning of "mhmd." There is the discussion on the forum about names, particularly Muhammad was he a person or is it an adjective describing a believer etc.

And there is a similarity of this verse and another about "makam ibrahima" (2125, 397) ...

Looking forward to your comments

With peace,

Wakas

peace sister Layla,

maqam = stance/standing (its non-literal meaning)

2125, 397, 5107, 1071, 1414, 1779, 1973, 2658, 2739, 37164, 4426, 4451, 5546, 7940

mahmoodan = one who praises or gives thanks (or praised/thanked, I'm not sure about the grammar/direction of this comment)

Perhaps mhmd is the stance/standing worthy of attaining/receiving?

Wakas