Indeed upholding/maintaining SALAT is the Key for the success.

[herbman]

Peace

When i hear about salat ablution, prostrating and those other positions , praising and mentioning Only God in arabic comes to my mind | i never did salat tho | im 13 and got no clue, shall try when i'm older if Allah wishes

Salam, Peace,

You might not know it yet but in a certain way you are holding the salat without knowing it. As the birds do their salat you are doing yours by applying what is good and by rejecting what is wrong or bad, simply by applying The God's laws, natural laws.

By the way for a 13 years old guy, you look very smart and speak a very good english.

Keep looking, asking your self questions, by applying The God's laws (salat) and better/develop yourself with good deeds (zakat).

Peace

[herbman]

peace herbman,

Similar to http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
Also, the compilation links thread is good
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598319.0

Technically, afaik, it is "does your salat tell you that we....."

Peace Wakas,

Thanks for your input.

Btw what does "afaik" means????? brickwall

[Wakas]

google says it means "as far as i know" )

[Kaiokenred]

Salam, Peace,

You might not know it yet but in a certain way you are holding the salat without knowing it. As the birds do their salat you are doing yours by applying what is good and by rejecting what is wrong or bad, simply by applying The God's laws, natural laws.

By the way for a 13 years old guy, you look very smart and speak a very good english.

Keep looking, asking your self questions, by applying The God's laws (salat) and better/develop yourself with good deeds (zakat).

Peace

Thanks a lot brother
Hope God blesses you

[holy_man]

so are u saying that salat is not a prayer that is performed 3 times a day, but rather a continous effort to hold fast to the rope of god so to speak?????

[1CELOSTNOWFOUND]

Peace,

herbman, in the portion of my research that you quoted, there is one update that I need to change.

Under purpose of salat, the first item reads

seeking assistance (245).

Upon further reflection, I have found it to be rendered more accurately as "seeking optimum capability and solutions".

Imraan

[1CELOSTNOWFOUND]

Peace,

Another important verse to understand what salat is, lay in the context of 2220 to 2240, with the famous AL SALAT AL WASTA in 2238.
please refer to previous discussion on the subject mainly this one from brother Abdu
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.45

I have commented on this here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.msg275903#msg275903

Let me know your thoughts.

Imraan

[mmkhan]

Salaam herbman, all,

By "applying God's rule" = SALAT you automaticaly fit to the statments found in verse below

? seeking assistance (245)
. bringing about of peace and tranquility for someone (9103)
? restraining from shameful and evil deeds (2945)
? taking people from darkness into light (3343)
? the remembrance of God (2014, 8715)
? bringing others closer to God (999)
? receiving instruction on socio-economic matters (1187)
? being raised to a higher station (1778-79)
? removing uncleanness and for purification (3333)

I guess people here can try all the occurences in the quran with this meaning and give feedback, contre-arguments etc.

Here is my understand on the above points

? seeking assistance (245)
Agreed

. bringing about of peace and tranquility for someone (9103)
Don't think so

? restraining from shameful and evil deeds (2945)
Agreed

? taking people from darkness into light (3343)
Agreed

? the remembrance of God (2014, 8715)
Almost agree

? bringing others closer to God (999)
Don't agree, it is about 'Infaaq' not 'Salaat'

? receiving instruction on socio-economic matters (1187)
Don't think so

? being raised to a higher station (1778-79)
Don't agree, 1779 is not about 'Salaat'

? removing uncleanness and for purification (3333)
Don't agree

May Allah guide us reach the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan

[herbman]

Salaam herbman, all,

Here is my understand on the above points

? seeking assistance (245)
Agreed

. bringing about of peace and tranquility for someone (9103)
Don't think so

? restraining from shameful and evil deeds (2945)
Agreed

? taking people from darkness into light (3343)
Agreed

? the remembrance of God (2014, 8715)
Almost agree

? bringing others closer to God (999)
Don't agree, it is about 'Infaaq' not 'Salaat'

? receiving instruction on socio-economic matters (1187)
Don't think so

? being raised to a higher station (1778-79)
Don't agree, 1779 is not about 'Salaat'

? removing uncleanness and for purification (3333)
Don't agree

May Allah guide us reach the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan

Peace Mohamed, all,

This part of the text is an extract of Imran work http//www.quranwiki.net/index.php?title=Salat#Purpose_of_Salat

I then let him answering you, anyway I will give you my point of view regarding the points you do not agree

. bringing about of peace and tranquility for someone (9103)
Don't think so

In the verse it is clearly stating the following

"Verily your SALAT is a tranquility for them"
I guess you do not agree because maybe you think "only salat of the messenger on people" is a tranquility?

Please clarify why you do not agree on this otherwise.

? bringing others closer to God (999)
Don't agree, it is about 'Infaaq' not 'Salaat'

I agree with you, it is about Infaaq and not Salat

? receiving instruction on socio-economic matters (1187)
Don't think so

I think SALAT here refer to verse 1185 and giving full balance to what people paid for.
So I agree with Imran

? being raised to a higher station (1778-79)
Don't agree, 1779 is not about 'Salaat'

I do not agree with you
1779 is linked directly to 17.78 by "wa", which means it is the same sentence and I think "nafila" refer to "extra salat" for muminoon who wish do it.

? removing uncleanness and for purification (3333)
Don't agree

in the verse SALAT is one of the vectors, with zakat and following The God and His messenger to reach a state of purification.

Peace and thanks for your input

[mmkhan]

Salaaman herbman,

Peace Mohamed, all,

This part of the text is an extract of Imran work http//www.quranwiki.net/index.php?title=Salat#Purpose_of_Salat

I then let him answering you, anyway I will give you my point of view regarding the points you do not agree

The point said in the above post is "bringing about of peace and tranquility for someone", so I didn't say that I don't agree, I said "I don't think so", still I feel that the point made is not clear about Salaat.

In the verse it is clearly stating the following

True, but I believe that Salaat means "to be in touch" or "be in contact" so, in this way it is not up the point made.

"Verily your SALAT is a tranquility for them"
I guess you do not agree because maybe you think "only salat of the messenger on people" is a tranquility?

Please clarify why you do not agree on this otherwise.

No no no, the aayat does not say anything like Rasool or Nabi.

I think SALAT here refer to verse 1185 and giving full balance to what people paid for.
So I agree with Imran

As per my understand of Salaat, I said "I don't think so", cause, it don't suite my understanding of Salaat.

I do not agree with you
1779 is linked directly to 17.78 by "wa", which means it is the same sentence and I think "nafila" refer to "extra salat" for muminoon who wish do it.

Only "wa" is used to separate things as "Aqeemu AlSalaata WA aatau AlZakaata", "AlTauraata WA AlInjeela", etc...

If "wa" come with "tashdeed" over it is used to link as in 4103

in the verse SALAT is one of the vectors, with zakat and following The God and His messenger to reach a state of purification.

But still it has nothing to do with the point made. And Zakaat itself is purification.

May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan

[Kaiokenred]

Ermm one thing im curious about, if maintaining salat isn't worshipping Allah prostrating and stuff, how come some verses mention prostrating, and Allah in a verse tells us to leave everything for the friday prayer?

[herbman]

Ermm one thing im curious about, if maintaining salat isn't worshipping Allah prostrating and stuff, how come some verses mention prostrating, and Allah in a verse tells us to leave everything for the friday prayer?

Salam,

Very good question, and to answer your question I will just invite you reasoning

prostration in arabic is SAJADA
In the Quran The God ask angels and Iblis to sajad in front of Adam. Do you think angels and Iblis were asked to prostrate in front of Adam? To do what?
In surat/chapter Yusuf, his brothers did SAJADA in front of Yusuf, same question arise?
My conclusion of the above is that sajada does not mean "physical" prostration, but means "hearing and obeying" as stated in verse 2285, 446, 57, 2451,

2285
The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His Messengers "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His Messengers." And they say "We hear and we obey; (We seek) Thy forgiveness, Our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

For Salat Jumu'a
629
O ye who believe! when the call is proclaimed to "prayer on Friday" (SALAT of the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic) that is best for you if ye but knew!

Jumu'a means means "assembly/gathering".

The timed SALAT refered as SALAT AL FAJR and SALAT AL Isha in alQuran see verse 11114, 1778 is the Bond when reading The Book.

1778
Establish SALAT at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading QURAN for the reading Quran in the morning carry their testimony

This Bond "Quranic recitation/reading" is also performed at any "social gathering" as is done when burrying the dead, mariage, birth etc...

Peace

ps this is my understanding when I have written it, searching for the truth is a continual process and therefore might not be complete or totally right.

[Kaiokenred]

Salam,

Very good question, and to answer your question I will just invite you reasoning

prostration in arabic is SAJADA
In the Quran The God ask angels and Iblis to sajad in front of Adam. Do you think angels and Iblis were asked to prostrate in front of Adam? To do what?
In surat/chapter Yusuf, his brothers did SAJADA in front of Yusuf, same question arise?
My conclusion of the above is that sajada does not mean "physical" prostration, but means "hearing and obeying" as stated in verse 2285, 446, 57, 2451,

2285
The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His Messengers "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His Messengers." And they say "We hear and we obey; (We seek) Thy forgiveness, Our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

For Salat Jumu'a
629
O ye who believe! when the call is proclaimed to "prayer on Friday" (SALAT of the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic) that is best for you if ye but knew!

Jumu'a means means "assembly/gathering".

The timed SALAT refered as SALAT AL FAJR and SALAT AL Isha in alQuran see verse 11114, 1778 is the Bond when reading The Book.

1778
Establish SALAT at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading QURAN for the reading Quran in the morning carry their testimony

This Bond "Quranic recitation/reading" is also performed at any "social gathering" as is done when burrying the dead, mariage, birth etc...

Peace

ps this is my understanding when I have written it, searching for the truth is a continual process and therefore might not be complete or totally right.

Oh great thanks for the explanation

peace

[mmkhan]

Salaam brother herbman,

I have two questions for you bro.

1778
Establish SALAT at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading QURAN for the reading Quran in the morning carry their testimony

1- Please explain what you mean by "Establish" in the above.

2- How you get the understand of "Reading AlQuraan" in 1778?

May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

[herbman]

Salaam brother herbman,

I have two questions for you bro.

1- Please explain what you mean by "Establish" in the above.

2- How you get the understand of "Reading AlQuraan" in 1778?

May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

Peace MMKhan,

1- My translation came from Yusuf Ali which I replaced the word "prayer" by its original SALAT (not translated).
But I would say it is "establish/maintain/accomplish/perform" in that sense.

here is the original translation of 1778

Yusuf Ali
Establish regular prayers at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony.

Mohsin Khan
Perform As?Sal?t (Iqam?t-as-Sal?t) from mid-day till the darkness of the night (i.e. the Zuhr, 'Asr, Maghrib, and 'Ish?' prayers), and recite the Qur'?n in the early dawn (i.e. the morning prayer). Verily, the recitation of the Qur'?n in the early dawn is ever witnessed (attended by the angels in charge of mankind of the day and the night).

Pickthal
Establish worship at the going down of the sun until the dark of night, and (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn is ever witnessed.

Shakir
Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.

PRL
= Qaf-Waw-Miim = stand still or firm, rose/stand up, managed/conducted/ordered/regulated/superintended, established, made it straight/right, maintain/erect/observe/perform, set up, people/community/company, abode, stature/dignity/rank. aqama - to keep a thing or an affair in a right state.

2-"qur'ana al fajri", qur'ana come from root qaf-ra-alif

PRL
= Qaf-Ra-Alif = to recite/read, compilation, collection, reading, recitation, explanation, study, investigation.

qur'ana from Coran corpus
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=17&verse=78
accusative masculine proper noun Quran

The translation would be something like "....and the "grand recititation/lecture" at dawn is witnessed"

Peace

[mmkhan]

Salaaman brother herbman,

Thank you for your reply.

1- My translation came from Yusuf Ali which I replaced the word "prayer" by its original SALAT (not translated).
But I would say it is "establish/maintain/accomplish/perform" in that sense.

here is the original translation of 1778

Yusuf Ali
Establish regular prayers at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony.

I understand that. But I wanted to suggest that the word "Aqim" is a derivative of "qum", "qayaam", "mustaqeem", etc. I believe, Allah used a 'single term' for each word in AlQuraan and also the same term is sued for its derivatives in His Book.

For example

1- A boy use to draw with both "hands"
2- You cannot escape from the "hands" of police

Whatever the 'particular' term is used for "hands" in AlQuraan, that always means "hands", it may refer to any of the example above, in both cases the same 'Arabic' term will be used in AlQuraan, same as we do in English.

In the same way, either "aqim", "qum", "mustaqeem" and other derivatives, all means simply "Straight/erect/stand". When Allah said "Aqim AlSalaat" that simply means "Straighten AlSalaat". As per my understanding 'Salaat' means 'link/contact/connection', so, "Aqim AlSalaat" can be translated as "Straighten the connection ". This is how I understand it, because every time it is needed to straighten cause we are busy also in other things.

2-"qur'ana al fajri", qur'ana come from root qaf-ra-alif

PRL
= Qaf-Ra-Alif = to recite/read, compilation, collection, reading, recitation, explanation, study, investigation.

qur'ana from Coran corpus
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=17&verse=78
accusative masculine proper noun Quran

The translation would be something like "....and the "grand recititation/lecture" at dawn is witnessed"

Again I found two terms in AlQuraan in the same regards as follows

1- 'Quraan' always refers to 'reading'
2- 'AlQuraan' always refers to 'AlQuraan' and in many places it is used with "Haaza" AlQuraan.

If you look at the word 'Quraan' in 7517-18, you will get the clear meaning, inshaAllah.

There is no AlQuraan mentioned in 1778, so it has to be translated as "Reading of AlFajr", I believe it is referring to Salaat AlFajr. Initially 1778 talks about Salaat AlEshaan and this part is referring to Salaat AlFajr.

It can also be understood from the other aayat, inshaAllah.

"Quraan AlFajri" in 1778 is used same as "A'zaab AlNaari" in 2201. So, when "A'zaab AlNaari" means "Punishment of AlNaar" then why can't "Quraan AlFajri" means "Reading of AlFajr".

For further clarification please look at the terms already used in AlQuraan as "Qaraat AlQuraan" in 1698 and "Quria AlQuraan" in 7204. Allah would have used something similar in 1778.

Hope this may help you inshaAllah.

May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

[Kaiokenred]

So the way i understood it, at salat times, a muslim which rejects all hadiths have to recite the Qu'ran and nothing else(ablution needed?)

[mmkhan]

Salaam KR,

So the way i understood it, at salat times, a muslim which rejects all hadiths have to recite the Qu'ran and nothing else(ablution needed?)

Recite the Quraan? nope

There are instruction in AlQuraan for us to follow, how can repeat them back to Allah in your Salaat? Logically, it has no sense. For ablution you have understand 56 .

May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

[Kaiokenred]

Salaam KR,

Recite the Quraan? nope

There are instruction in AlQuraan for us to follow, how can repeat them back to Allah in your Salaat? Logically, it has no sense. For ablution you have understand 56 .

May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

OK, Some say its reciting, some say worshipping, i dunno what the hell is going on anymore, HOW DO YOU DO SALAT? IS IT Worshipping physically and how or mentally and how!? brickwall Can you show me step by step, ex. take this and go there and do this, i wanna know it is DONE, not what it means cos i already know.

[mmkhan]

Salaam KR,

OK, Some say its reciting, some say worshipping, i dunno what the hell is going on anymore, HOW DO YOU DO SALAT? IS IT Worshipping physically and how or mentally and how!? brickwall Can you show me step by step, ex. take this and go there and do this, i wanna know it is DONE, not what it means cos i already know.

Easy easy...

Here it is http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601300.msg261111#msg261111

Hope this may be of help to you inshaAllah.

Mohammed M. Khan