It is finaly out
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Only those who deserve will witness this great sign. Those who are ignorant, bigotted and arrogant are prohibited to witness this sign. See 7146 and chapter 74.
Peace,
Edip -
You are not the first nor the last bigot who will fulfill the prophetic statements in 7430-31, 7146 and many more. I am not sure whether you will ever open your eyes and witness this great miracle but I still pray that one day you study it before making up your mind about it.
- You 19 people don't even understand what "code" means. First go study the definition of what a "code" is... No one has ever found an authentic code in the Qur'an. This is a FACT.
- If I had access to a supercomputer, I bet you if I remove a verse here and there from the Quran, id actually be able to come up with a code which spells out "code 19 sucks"...
3.Look up the example of Code 29... it probably took them like 10 mins to put that together, - I am not usually a prick, but for you, I'll make an exception.
I recommend you stop lying & deleting verses from the Qur'an ASAP. If you are truthful, please bring forward hard evidence. (You will ofcoarse never be able to)
378 - Among them are those who twist their tongues to imitate the scripture, that you may think it is from the scripture, when it is not from the scripture, and they claim that it is from GOD, when it is not from GOD. Thus, they utter lies and attribute them to GOD, knowingly.If I am wrong, I hope God guide me. I pray the same for all of my Muslim brothers, including you.
Salaam -
Dear brother
I used to believe and used to translate the word "AMANA" as "BELIFE" and "IMAN" as "Faith" but no more. A book that challenges others to bring their EVIDENCE cannot ask people just to BELIEVE. A book that advices people not to follow anything blindly and reminds them their EARS, EYES, and MINDS cannot be asking them to accept its divine origin, which is an extraordinary claim, without extraordinary evidence.
All Christians, Mormons, Hindus and all other religions and sects uses EXACTLY THE SAME excuse to follow their inherited dogmas.
Your methodolgy is diametrically contradictory to the methodolgy of the Quran.
I do not believe the unseen, but I acknowledge the unseen based on knowledge and evidence. That is a huge difference and I will not be surprised that you will never appreciate the code 19 as long as you force yourself to be a gullible believer. Furthermore, your belief in the Quran, more accurately your ZANN (conjecture) about the Quran is not due to the Quran, but due to your faith in your ancestors, your culture, or the bandwagon near you.
I hope that instead of taking these words personally, you THINK on it and discover the problems with your faith, which is euphemism of "wishful thinking" or "joining one of the banwagons"
Peace,
EdipPlease, can you explain xhat does it mean , appreciating, witnessing the greatest miracle 19 ?
can you explain why you believe in miracles, and why without miracles there is no god and without miracles the quran is supposed to be false ?
please can you explain why believing in the quran alone in not enaugh, why 19 has to be beside the quran , or we're Kafir ?
can you explain why rejecting all miracles , or not believing in any miracle is shirk ? even though, you're trying to act as a realist person, who believe in miracles !
and please, the most important issue that didn't want to enter my mind, what 19 has to give to humanity ? a,d if 19 is so holy,.and is it that you defend khalifa as messenger because he gave you the status of Sahabas ?
and you're talking about sects, don't you think that you have a doctrine based on belief in 19 and you are a group of people holding each other's had around number19 ? doesn't that make you a sect also ? speacially you have in your doctrine, whoever don't believe in 19 is a disbeliever Kafir. even people who hold fast tp the quran and believe in allah only, they have to put 19 beside allah and his book.your sect did get a lot of people astray
now you realise that amana and muminine is not faith !!!
mouminine are the people responsible of the law. they are people who sit in the Senat for exemple.
Allah is the rules of administration pf the state. just as allah is the rule of administration of the universe. and all that exist.
his only name is Ar Rahman. the one behind all this.
your sect pushed hard salat to stay a rituel even though salat has nothing to do with rituels or with prayers.didn't you realise that the quran isn't a religious book ?
didn't you realise that the hadiths interpreted the quran backward ? dhouhour became the backs, and batn became the front !!!
you and khalifa in reality confirmed the ahadiths and confirmed satan's work on Salat and Sawm etc... didn't you see khalifa acting as a messenger showing people the salat that was inserted by satan in Islam as a rituel to veil the real purpose of salat ?
didn't you see khalifa on youtube, shwing people that wash you Aydi , is washing their hands to the elbows ? even though , that has nothing to do with washing hands ( kafayn ).youu're accting just as another religious persone, just like any other imam ou khalifa or any priest trying to prouve his points of view in religion, even though you act as a person who knows islam isn't a religion.
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Dear Loxbox13,
I cannot discuss this issue with every "bleiever" of this and that religion or sect again and again starting from scratch. There are Billions (with B) of you and all of you share the same problem following the ancestors, the crowd or your wishful thinking, and be proud of it.
As long as you are not scared of using your God-given brains, one day you will realize on your own, that the word "faith" or "belief", as used in todays English language, has nothing to do with IMAN; they are the translatin of ZANN, that is conjecture. God does not invite people to believe something without reason and evidence, since believing something without reason and evidence is the method used by Satan. Claims about God are the greatest claims and they require great evidence and signs.
I am not a believer of a particular dogma or religion; I am a searcher of truth through knowledge, evidence, and signs. I do not believe in the Quran, but I KNOW that the Quran is God's word. My knowledge is not based on the number of people, but on verifiable and falsifiable scientific facts/signs, philosophical arguments, including the number used by God as a sign as a proof for His message.
Most likely, with this "believer" state of mind, you will be incapable of understanding the statetemenst above. You might even use Pharaoh's excuse "what about the previous generations who did not know about this sign?" and many others to keep yourself in the darkness. You will continue accuse me with the stories, speculations and false ideas manufactured by your imagination.
It is up to you which group you choose. Either you will be one of those who witness the great sign and progress, or one of those who act blind and deaf and regress (737).
7225 Say, "I do not know if what you are promised is near, or if my Lord will make it distant."
72257226 The knower of the unseen, He does not reveal His knowledge to anyone.
72267227 Except to whom He has accepted as a messenger; then he leads way in its present and future as a secret observer.
72277228 So that He knows that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He surrounds all that is with them, and He has counted everything in numbers.
7228Peace,
Edip -
Only those who deserve will witness this great sign. Those who are ignorant, bigotted and arrogant are prohibited to witness this sign. See 7146 and chapter 74.
Peace,
EdipSimply answer why you remove verses, teach others to do so, and write books to propagate lies?
In addition, spreading falsity and removing two verses out of ignorance.
4829 ?
Muhammad messenger of Allah and those who with him firm against l-kufri and merciful among themselves?
I used to believe and used to translate the word "AMANA" as "BELIFE" and "IMAN" as "Faith" but no more. A book that challenges others to bring their EVIDENCE cannot ask people just to BELIEVE. A book that advices people not to follow anything blindly and reminds them their EARS, EYES, and MINDS cannot be asking them to accept its divine origin, which is an extraordinary claim, without extraordinary evidence.
All Christians, Mormons, Hindus and all other religions and sects uses EXACTLY THE SAME excuse to follow their inherited dogmas.
Your methodolgy is diametrically contradictory to the methodolgy of the Quran.
I do not believe the unseen, but I acknowledge the unseen based on knowledge and evidence. That is a huge difference and I will not be surprised that you will never appreciate the code 19 as long as you force yourself to be a gullible believer. Furthermore, your belief in the Quran, more accurately your ZANN (conjecture) about the Quran is not due to the Quran, but due to your faith in your ancestors, your culture, or the bandwagon near you.
yu'minna (َ verb (86)
3rd person masculine plural (form IV) imperfect verb ( ع
(232) ... believe ...
(242) ... believe ...
(2611) ... they believe. ...
(28810) ... they believe. ...
(210010) ... believe. ...
(2121 ... believe ...
(31141) ... They believe ...
(4387) ... they believe ...
(44636) ... they believe ...
(4519) ... They believe ...
(4654) ... they will not believe ...
(415520) ... they believe ...
(41627) ... believe ...
(5813) ... believed ...
(61225) ... believe. ...
(62013) ... believe. ...
(6544) ... believe ...
(69215) ... believe ...
(69217) ... they believe ...
(69944) ... (who) believe. ...
(610921) ... they will believe. ...
(61136) ... believe ...
(61252 ... believe. ...
(615023) ... believe ...
(615417) ... believe. ...
(72730) ... believe. ...
(75210) ... who believe. ...
(715630) ... believe in Our Verses. ...
(718522) ... will they believe? ...
(71882 ... who believe." ...
(720323) ... who believe." ...
(85510) ... believe. ...
(9294) ... believe ...
(9444) ... believe ...
(9455) ... believe ...
(103310) ... believe. ...
(1096 ... believe. ...
(1010114) ... believe. ...
(111717) ... believe ...
(111739) ... believe. ...
(111214) ... believe, ...
(123721) ... they believe ...
(1211123) ... who believe. ...
(13115) ... believe. ...
(15132) ... they believe ...
(16226) ... believe ...
(16603) ... believe ...
(166414) ... who believe. ...
(167217) ... they believe, ...
(16791 ... who believe. ...
(161044) ... believe ...
(161056) ... believe ...
(17104) ... believe ...
(17459) ... believe ...
(193912) ... believe. ...
(216 ... believe? ...
(21301 ... they believe? ...
(234419) ... they believe. ...
(23585) ... believe ...
(23744) ... believe ...
(246222) ... believe ...
(262012) ... they will believe ...
(2744) ... believe ...
(278615) ... who believe. ...
(2839) ... who believe. ...
(2852 ... believe. ...
(292420) ... who believe. ...
(2947 ... believe ...
(295115) ... who believe. ...
(296712) ... they believe ...
(303715) ... who believe. ...
(34811) ... believe ...
(367 ... believe. ...
(3610 ... they will believe. ...
(39459) ... believe ...
(395215) ... who believe. ...
(405911) ... believe. ...
(414419) ... believe, ...
(42185) ... believe ...
(43887) ... believe." ...
(45612) ... will they believe? ...
(52336) ... they believe. ...
(53274) ... believe ...
(58224) ... who believe ...
(77504) ... will they believe? ...
(84204) ... they believe, ...No, it's not enough to view the world around you and life in it's various forms.
No, you demand to see a Nazi enigma code machine!http//cnm.open.ac.uk/projects/stationx/enigma/images/re2.jpg
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Except to whom He has accepted as a messenger; then he leads way in its present and future as a secret observer.
7227And lets him get murdered, obviously in breach of His Promise, if he was a messenger. Allah does not betray. It is His self assumed obligation to help His Messengers. Since He did not help him throughout his life, and he earned his life through deceits, as has been pointed out by his class fellow and country fellow, it is evident that he is a lier and flase claimant of messengership.
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Dear Loxbox13,
I cannot discuss this issue with every "bleiever" of this and that religion or sect again and again starting from scratch. There are Billions (with B) of you and all of you share the same problem following the ancestors, the crowd or your wishful thinking, and be proud of it.
As long as you are not scared of using your God-given brains, one day you will realize on your own, that the word "faith" or "belief", as used in todays English language, has nothing to do with IMAN; they are the translatin of ZANN, that is conjecture. God does not invite people to believe something without reason and evidence, since believing something without reason and evidence is the method used by Satan. Claims about God are the greatest claims and they require great evidence and signs.
I am not a believer of a particular dogma or religion; I am a searcher of truth through knowledge, evidence, and signs. I do not believe in the Quran, but I KNOW that the Quran is God's word. My knowledge is not based on the number of people, but on verifiable and falsifiable scientific facts/signs, philosophical arguments, including the number used by God as a sign as a proof for His message.
Most likely, with this "believer" state of mind, you will be incapable of understanding the statetemenst above. You might even use Pharaoh's excuse "what about the previous generations who did not know about this sign?" and many others to keep yourself in the darkness. You will continue accuse me with the stories, speculations and false ideas manufactured by your imagination.
It is up to you which group you choose. Either you will be one of those who witness the great sign and progress, or one of those who act blind and deaf and regress (737).
Peace,
Edipow ow ow , u get me wrong or u understood wrong what I wrote, maybe you're new in realising that Iman doesn't mean faith, I am with you on this, aso, e speak when you realise that Allah doesn't mean god, and Iman bi allah is not believing in god, these are two different sentences
see ? maybe , you start to realise that also wudu , washing the Aydi has nothing to do with washing hands, and Woujouh doesn't also mean faces
I my post above, I was trying to tell you that khalifa just like sectarians, understand the Quran backward, and most people here, without realising it.I see your translation, Adbar, you translate it backs, even though , it has nothing to do with backs,
Dhouhour you translate it with backs, even though it is the opposite of backs
Liquaa rabikoum, you translate it meeting with your lord, even though, it has nothing to do wwith meeting.god
you still think prophet joseph was a pretty man, even though , that story has nothing to do with beauty
you still trnslate hikma , as wisdom, even though hikma has nothing to do with wisdomyou're at the begining of a ourney, so act like someone who is searching for the truth, because you say that and you act like someone who thinks he knows it all.
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Salaam Brother Edip (I assume that I am a brother in humanity rather than in true Islam according to you);
Firstly note that the phrase you quoted me on was construed out of context and misinterpreted. I said that our belief in the unseen and acceptance of the Message made us Muslims. That does not say anything about why we do these things! Iblis acknowledges/believes but he does not accept. It is also why both the traditional and Khalifite shahadas fall short of the Qur'anic example (unless it can be argued otherwise).
You ignored/missed a lot of what I said (in your eagerness to pounce on a phrase) but it does not matter because it is still there. I also do not need to take your words personally since they were uttered without base. For instance, you openly declare that I am no better than a wishful-thinker although I never actually told you what my rationale for belief was (beyond general Qur'anic arguments). The Qur'an provides arguments but it is not just the point of the arguments, but the argument themselves (as is implied). You therefore demonstrate prejudice and prove what I was saying. Now if I wanted to demonstrate that Code 19 is irrelevant (as is my arguing for or against it since I do not feel that I need to) then I would ask you to answer the question posed by the Qur'an (considering the context of the Revelation)
"They said, "If only signs would come down to him from his Lord!" Say, "All signs are with God, and I am but a clear warner." Is it not enough for them that We have sent down to you the book, being recited to them? In that is a mercy and a reminder for people who acknowledge."
Qur'an 2950-51
I used your translation since that is your tafsir. The Qur'an is asking if you think that the recitation of the Qur'an itself (i.e. the plain Arabic and the arguments it contains) is not enough to make someone believe. If you can answer Allah's (SWT) question then I can make mention of the list of scientific observations contained in the Qur'an which you placed at the beginning of "A Reformist Translation" (though it is not just this!). Unless you wish to argue with your own words or claim that still I am no better than a wishful thinker (simply because I believe that the Qur'an presents the necessary case for Allah (SWT) without Code 19) and therefore that the Qur'an is not enough without Code 19, then I am not quite sure why you responded to me in such a fashion (especially since you don't know how much I know or have studied). After all, I never said that I rejected Code 19 (how could I?); I am only taking the advice in 20114.
I am curious as to your opinion on Muslims who believed before 1974 which is the same as asking why 2950-51 is less applicable today than it was then.
Also whether we use the word "believe" or "acknowledge" is (as per lines 2-4) irrelevant since people can believe on evidence or they can acknowledge on evidence. Moreover it is more logical to believe in what one cannot see than to acknowledge it. One would find it easier to acknowledge the existence of the unseen than to acknowledge something about which they can know nothing. It is not good to think that we know something when we are only supposed to believe in it according to separate arguments.
Anyway, my point is about judging something or someone without sufficient evidence or knowledge. If you can find something in my original message that makes me a hypocrite, then please let me know. You rejected good advice, but it is still there!
Peace and best wishes and thankyou for your efforts.
P.S. 7146 was a part of the reason for avoiding absolutist views Ayman's way (but even then it is simply talking about every sign and not one particular sign - thus implying that one does not have to see every sign to believe). Nevertheless/likewise its relevance is only sound if you can answer the above. One is free to possess absolutist views, but beyond presenting one's evidence it is unwise to label others (for both religious and social reasons!).
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Salam Mazhar,
And lets him get murdered, obviously in breach of His Promise, if he was a messenger. Allah does not betray. It is His self assumed obligation to help His Messengers. Since He did not help him throughout his life, and he earned his life through deceits, as has been pointed out by his class fellow and country fellow, it is evident that he is a lier and flase claimant of messengership.
Sorry to jump in on this thread, but where in the Quran does it say that messengers can't get killed?
Prophets and messengers were murdered on several occations (3183, 291).
I think you are mixing between God's victory (which is guaranteed to His followers) and mortality.
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Salam Mazhar,
Sorry to jump in on this thread, but where in the Quran does it say that messengers can't get killed?
Prophets and messengers were murdered on several occations (3183, 291).
I think you are mixing between God's victory (which is guaranteed to His followers) and mortality.
Thanks Layeth,
It is a lengthy issue. Though I have written about it in Urdu covering all occurrences of Root Qaaf Ta Laam, but that will take some time to translate it in English. Your qerry remains due upon me for clarification.
However, I may clarify the specific point, the charge with the use of word made from Root Qaaf Ta Laam is only on the Jews. And they still keep doing it as charged in Qur'aan. No other nation or community has been alleged this charge.
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Peace Asana;
SHAHADA
?When his (Abraham?s) Lord said to him, Be a Muslim, he said I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds.?
Qur?an 2131
?Allah bears witness that there is no god but He, and (so do) the angels and those possessed of knowledge, maintaining His creation with justice; there is no god but He, the Mighty, the Wise.?
Qur?an 318
?But if they dispute with you, say I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.?
Qur?an 320
?And We made the children of Israel to pass through the sea, then Firon and his hosts followed them for oppression and tyranny; until when drowning overtook him, he said I believe that there is no god but He in Whom the children of Israel believe and I am of those who submit.?
Qur?an 1090
?And return to your Lord time after time and submit to Him before there comes to you the punishment, then you shall not be helped.?
Qur?an 3954
?Say I am forbidden to serve those whom you call upon besides Allah when clear arguments have come to me from my Lord, and I am commanded that I should submit to the Lord of the worlds.?
Qur?an 4066
Therefore the recommended Shahada is
?There is no god but Allah; I submit to the Lord of the Universe.? It is interesting that despite ?Islam? meaning ?Submission? and ?Muslim? meaning ?Submitter?, the traditional Muslims do not submit in their declaration of "Muslimship". Even Iblis can say "there is No God but The God (and Muhammad is His Messenger)". It does not make him a Muslim because he does not make intention to submit. They make intention to perform salaat, but no intention to follow the rest of the Message (i.e. intention to submit).
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Mesmorial, are you saying that there are no good traditional muslims? Are you saying that they are all going to Hell or what ever you might believe Hell to be?
Peace and Thanks
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Dear Pel;
Did I say that? I think I said something was interesting. I also made a recommendation.
Take care and peace.
P.S. You could ask Edip Yuksel or any other Qur'an-alone Muslim the same question with justification for a lot of other reasons (i.e. ignoring the fact that they might have a different shahada or maybe not think that a shahada is necessary!). You should open a thread to obtain a broader response. Also remember that intention to be a Muslim simply by intending to do one's best to follow others is not quite the same as making an honest attempt to do it as best as one can according to one's brain (and if it truly (logically) leads to accepting sources of religious law besides the Qur'an, then so be it). However social fear is the argument against that. I call it "sunniformity", but it is not my business to label people as this or that.
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Thanks Mes for your enlightnening views. You are right about laws, I mean they are all based on the ten commandments wich is an"Older scripture" acording to my belief.
By the way, I think that sunnis will be alright in next life. Ofcourse, the sinciere ones, so I disagree with you in that they are not following the system as a general statement.
Peace and Thanks
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Thanks Mes for your enlightnening views. You are right about laws, I mean they are all based on the ten commandments wich is an"Older scripture" acording to my belief.
By the way, I think that sunnis will be alright in next life. Ofcourse, the sinciere ones, so I disagree with you in that they are not following the system as a general statement.
Peace and Thanks
To clarify
I believe generally anyone who believes and does good whilst not judging others based on religion and does not advocate the killing of apostates will "definitely" be alright. I myself accept ahadith as examples (some of which are true, false, good or bad, contrary or not to the Qur'an) because I think that community cohesion is important in big things such as the sacred months (which are not in the Qur'an) (I say that because the ahadith confirm what I already thought, explained in the article "The Five Pillars of the Qur'an Alone". Now we ask are all traditional Muslims going to Hell according to those who follow different sacred months?) and the number of salaat (my reading of the Qur'an being confirmed again by ahadith). If there is no real reason not to take something as an example (whether people believe it is obligatory or not is no-one's business and people need to be satisfied with their own reason/system of faith and respect that) then for the sake of community cohesion I will follow that. For example I will pray like others as far as it does not contradict the Qur'an, but obviously there will be some differences. A Qur'an-alone Muslim cannot argue with that because the actual length of prayer is determined by how much of the Qur'an one chooses to recite whilst standing!
So in short my attitude to ahadith is that those which overtly support Shia and Sunni doctrines (or else are just misogynistic etc.) are false, distorted or taken out of context (not that I would need to worry if I knew the Qur'an well enough) whilst the others are examples or interpretations. After all it is natural that there would be ahadith to support different views because of the Final Sermon. Although there are a lot of weird ahadith, there are also a lot of nice ones which gives credence to the belief that the others are false or distorted. Notice I do not accept any ahadith as obligatory, but there is no reason for me (for example) to not circumambulate the Kaaba 7 times anyway so I would do so (though it could be argued you need only do it once). Besides, the religion was passed down so there is more evidence for that (and blatant denial of (i.e. aversion to) recorded history when it comes to such things is not constructive). Islam is really a personal thing but Muslims are kept together by the simple Message (in the Qur'an!) of prayer, charity and belief etc.. That is why death for apostasy and other nasty things are wrong. I talked about Jizya in the articles "Does Islam Intend to Conquer the World Part II" and "Picking Up the Pieces" to demonstrate that even if the traditions are true, the people who impose it must follow the message and be fair since the ahadith had their own context. E.g. I would argue that the Jizya if accepted as tax must be (since we have no more information from the Qur'an) a normal state tax the name of which derives from verse 929. There is ideally no problem except aggressive and judgemental Muslims (and the Islamophobes!). The problem is that Sunni Islam is based on two absolute sources of religion which gives some the self-righteousness to judge others (hence "sunniformity" and do what they choose regardless of the Qur'an. That seed is why am I going through every relevant ayah of the Qur'an (though the debate is now foregone for me).
The other reason that I recommend a moderate and open attitude from all (besides that it is a part of truly appreciating one's religion) is that overcoming one's insecurity will mean that people will not feel they must defend their own opinions and points of view by attacking others. When someone says something, someone reacts and eventually both accuse each other of being bigots. Remember that no-one knows everything, and as long as one tries their best and follows what they think is right (if this causes inevitable conflict then it must be supported by the Qur'an) then InshaAllah that will be fine.
Peace.
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However, I may clarify the specific point, the charge with the use of word made from Root Qaaf Ta Laam is only on the Jews. And they still keep doing it as charged in Qur'aan. No other nation or community has been alleged this charge.
One of the popular logical fallacies. The Quran NEVER states "ONLY" for Jews on this issue. Just because the Quran gives only ONE example, that does not make it the ONLY
The Quran mentions banana, grape and pomagrade, but it does not mention orange. Thus there is no such a fruit called orange.
The Quran mentions messengers that were sent to Arabs and Jews, but not to Chinese and Greek. Thus, Chinese and Greek did not receive messengers.I recommend brother Mazhar to study logic and learn about common logical fallacies. I have learned that many of our futile arguments are caused by lack of critical thinking and lack of skills in recognizing logical fallacies.
Peace,
Edip -
How can I delete this one?
Somehow it posted a duplicate message.
Peace,
Edip
