Masturbation
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We are talking about different things and I can continue on and on but I must go for now. I am talking about tangible logic based on what Muslims accept.
Peace.
Start a new thread about it. I might be interested... I haven't had a discussion in a while. angel
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Have you properly addressed my previous arguments? I have addressed yours and yet you are still declaring fatwas without specifications.
Peace.
Yes i believe i did, and that verse i posted was 732
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This is exactly the type of environment that Quranists should foster. This whole debate on masturbation has drawn everyone who has participated in it closer to Allah. For some this is a divisive issue, for other it seems to be "mental masturbation." However, the environment has caused us to search, think, understand, see different points of view. This is important if the Quran Alone movement is ever to get truly off the ground. Having a open forum to propose new questions or even rehash old questions is important. Remember as a child how bad it sucked when your parent said "because I said so!!" That attitude doesn't impart any understanding. I think the Quran Alone movement allows this freedom of thought and allows everyone to be a scholar. This is its true value as a movement. Hopefully we can see this and promote this in the world around us. We should encourage people to debate on issues as in the end it draws us closer to Allah with a better understanding of his will.
Enough of this "mental masturbation"... I am up for the real thing... Where did I put the tissues and the lotion??? (Just kidding) rotfl I couldn't resist! I apologize to anyone who is offended. It was only meant as a joke.
Just my thoughts.
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace -
Yes i believe i did, and that verse i posted was 732
I believe that you are utterly devoid of logic
"Say Who has prohibited the embellishment of Allah which He has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions? Say These are for the believers in the life of this world, purely (theirs) on the resurrection day; thus do We make the communications clear for a people who know."
732
When was deliberately masturbating with dirty thoughts an adornment and a good provision?
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This is exactly the type of environment that Quranists should foster. This whole debate on masturbation has drawn everyone who has participated in it closer to Allah. For some this is a divisive issue, for other it seems to be "mental masturbation." However, the environment has caused us to search, think, understand, see different points of view. This is important if the Quran Alone movement is ever to get truly off the ground. Having a open forum to propose new questions or even rehash old questions is important. Remember as a child how bad it sucked when your parent said "because I said so!!" That attitude doesn't impart any understanding. I think the Quran Alone movement allows this freedom of thought and allows everyone to be a scholar. This is its true value as a movement. Hopefully we can see this and promote this in the world around us. We should encourage people to debate on issues as in the end it draws us closer to Allah with a better understanding of his will.
Enough of this "mental masturbation"... I am up for the real thing... Where did I put the tissues and the lotion??? (Just kidding) rotfl I couldn't resist! I apologize to anyone who is offended. It was only meant as a joke.
Just my thoughts.
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peaceNobody else was game to say anything...but I've got nothing left to lose today So....eeeewwwww!!!!!!
It is nice to have somewhere where we can discuss ''everything'' isn't it. I have compartmentalised my life to a huge degree. I can discuss certain things with certain people but not with others. I'm sure most people are like that, but it has that feeling sometimes of not being yourself. Actually I usually deal with that quite well, but I'm having an off day. So yeah - hamdulillah we can be free(ish) on here.
Still, eeeewwwww!!! laugh
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I stopped masturbating for 2 years (though i am again doing it) and in total i think i had like a maximum of 5 or 6 wet dreams during that two year abstince (i was about 18 then). From experience i think once your body gets the discipline, the urge is lessened. So I think once someone goes past three months of abstinence, it becomes easy and you very rarely end up getting wet dreams. I masturbate like once a week or every two weeks as i feel that that is naturally best. Although i am reconsidering just being completely abstinent again....
OMG, seriously dude, no need to divulge personal information -\ if by any chance we happen to meet I'll LMFAO so please don't be offended rotfl
...and will not be shaking hands either yuck
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I believe that you are utterly devoid of logic
"Say Who has prohibited the embellishment of Allah which He has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions? Say These are for the believers in the life of this world, purely (theirs) on the resurrection day; thus do We make the communications clear for a people who know."
732
When was deliberately masturbating with dirty thoughts an adornment and a good provision?
Im not saying its halal, just not haram, nowhere specified in Quran to be haram so its not, but neither halal, and you can't keep dirty thoughts away unless you're a freak or a person with a great will power or who's not pervy at all.
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OMG, seriously dude, no need to divulge personal information -\ if by any chance we happen to meet I'll LMFAO so please don't be offended rotfl
...and will not be shaking hands either yuck
I thought it might be useful to the thread. If you were not trying to offend (and im assuming you were not), then no offence taken.
Peace
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Im not saying its halal, just not haram, nowhere specified in Quran to be haram so its not, but neither halal, and you can't keep dirty thoughts away unless you're a freak or a person with a great will power or who's not pervy at all.
Peace Kaiokenred
You can do it! I believe in you!
Pervy thoughts about someone else? I'd be pretty angry if I knew someone was having pervy thoughts about my mum. I also think if I had a daughter i'd be pretty angry at a dude having pervy thoughts about her.It may be that they'l never know but that doesn't relly justify it. If you honestly think there is nothing wrong with it then fine i really think you should stick with that decision. You might be right and others might be wrong. But i really don't think you've provided enough justification for the acceptability of perving over someone whom you don't know well enough or whom you don't have their permission of at the least.
Strengthen your will power if it's too hard at the moment. Pray for it if you feel like your not succeeding. BUT only if you decide that the act is wrong.
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Peace Kaiokenred
You can do it! I believe in you!
Pervy thoughts about someone else? I'd be pretty angry if I knew someone was having pervy thoughts about my mum. I also think if I had a daughter i'd be pretty angry at a dude having pervy thoughts about her.It may be that they'l never know but that doesn't relly justify it. If you honestly think there is nothing wrong with it then fine i really think you should stick with that decision. You might be right and others might be wrong. But i really don't think you've provided enough justification for the acceptability of perving over someone whom you don't know well enough or whom you don't have their permission of at the least.
Strengthen your will power if it's too hard at the moment. Pray for it if you feel like your not succeeding. BUT only if you decide that the act is wrong.
Well you can also think about girls that dont exist o.0 or anime characters as real ? P
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Let us think like lawyers!
If you do it purely for release (i.e. you have to to avoid dirty thoughts which will themselves lead to temptation) then that is the point. If you do it because you are bored whilst not thinking dirty thoughts (e.g. out of fascination) then it would still be intentional and lewd if someone else saw it (i.e. what is lewd and intentional to others if unseen may well be just a lewd act done in secret). In short if someone intends to do it without deriving any pleasure from it, then there is no real point in doing it. It is in the same category as deciding which specific colour to dye one's hair (although as I mentioned masturbation would be lewd from another's point of view). By "masturbation" we mean just the pleasurable act, and anything else is besides the point and irrelevant to social Islam (i.e. it is between Allah (SWT) and the person who will be questioned about their deeds).
Peace MesMorial
It cannot be the case that just because someone else may see it the act is lewd. If i decide to walk out naked in public that would be rude and lewd IMO. But if i do so in the privacy of my home, then surely it is not. The same applies to Masturbation. It is not about whether someone else sees you do it. IMO The question is whether the act is lewd in itself. OR does it fall under the category of guarding one's private parts.
There is a point to masturbation without without content. If you do so with a pure mind and sight, then at the point of orgasm, the amount of dopamine released is relaxing. Provided no one does it in excess (and i don't think they would if they keep their sight and mind pure) in my opnion it's a beneficial and relaxing thing. Similar to other things like watching a movie.
Others also claim that there are other health benefits but i don't know and don't mostly don't agree with them
So unless the act is lewd initself, or it falls under the category of not guarding one's private parts, then there is no implication of prohibition of masturbation in the Quran as far as i know.
Even if we take the Hadith, it would not be "clarifying" something in this case it would just be giving a new law. Kinda like stoning to death or in some cases the banning of music (or certain types of it) Im not sure as im not so familiar with the hadith.
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Peace MesMorial
It cannot be the case that just because someone else may see it the act is lewd. If i decide to walk out naked in public that would be rude and lewd IMO. But if i do so in the privacy of my home, then surely it is not. The same applies to Masturbation. It is not about whether someone else sees you do it. IMO The question is whether the act is lewd in itself. OR does it fall under the category of guarding one's private parts.
There is a point to masturbation without without content. If you do so with a pure mind and sight, then at the point of orgasm, the amount of dopamine released is relaxing. Provided no one does it in excess (and i don't think they would if they keep their sight and mind pure) in my opnion it's a beneficial and relaxing thing. Similar to other things like watching a movie.
Others also claim that there are other health benefits but i don't know and don't mostly don't agree with them
So unless the act is lewd initself, or it falls under the category of not guarding one's private parts, then there is no implication of prohibition of masturbation in the Quran as far as i know.
Even if we take the Hadith, it would not be "clarifying" something in this case it would just be giving a new law. Kinda like stoning to death or in some cases the banning of music (or certain types of it) Im not sure as im not so familiar with the hadith.
Nope it doesn't, By guarding it means to keep it safe, to prevent it from getting damage.
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Well you can also think about girls that dont exist o.0 or anime characters as real ? P
I thought you'd take that line. In going through this issue a while back, CGI originally came to my mind ;D
I can't really say much to that. I was forced to conclude there was nothing wrong with CGI or things like it so long as they don't portray real characters but i later decided that that which it's protraying is lewd but at the same time, CGI can protray murder death, stealing (as commonly seen in GTA). I'm against it emotionally but i cant really give you sufficient reasons to keep off of it other than it may lead you to do excess masturbation but then you know your limits i think.
I would suggest though. Just try and keep off of Masturbation for like 4 weeks (I know it's long) just as an experiment to see what happens
They say it will boost your testosterone levels and will make you sharper and other things. I believe this becouse i've done this before. Then once your level is at like a good rate, then once every 9 days or something like that i think is like a good limit. But like i said i'm tempted to just abstain again to see if I can gain any more benefits.I could be completely wrong on this and it may be that the best approach is just to do it whenever you feel like it......
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Nope it doesn't, By guarding it means to keep it safe, to prevent it from getting damage.
I can't really argue against that just considering all possibilities.
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I thought you'd take that line. In going through this issue a while back, CGI originally came to my mind ;D
I can't really say much to that. I was forced to conclude there was nothing wrong with CGI or things like it so long as they don't portray real characters but i later decided that that which it's protraying is lewd but at the same time, CGI can protray murder death, stealing (as commonly seen in GTA). I'm against it emotionally but i cant really give you sufficient reasons to keep off of it other than it may lead you to do excess masturbation but then you know your limits i think.
I would suggest though. Just try and keep off of Masturbation for like 4 weeks (I know it's long) just as an experiment to see what happens
They say it will boost your testosterone levels and will make you sharper and other things. I believe this becouse i've done this before. Then once your level is at like a good rate, then once every 9 days or something like that i think is like a good limit. But like i said i'm tempted to just abstain again to see if I can gain any more benefits.I could be completely wrong on this and it may be that the best approach is just to do it whenever you feel like it......
I dont want to ever masturbate again... I always feel tihs after it... and every time i tell myself, last time or no problem with it, its ok what you were thinking after last time you werent thinking right.. i just dont want to do it again P
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I dont want to ever masturbate again... I always feel tihs after it... and every time i tell myself, last time or no problem with it, its ok what you were thinking after last time you werent thinking right.. i just dont want to do it again P
) I hope you find out whats best for you.
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Peace MesMorial
It cannot be the case that just because someone else may see it the act is lewd. If i decide to walk out naked in public that would be rude and lewd IMO. But if i do so in the privacy of my home, then surely it is not. The same applies to Masturbation. It is not about whether someone else sees you do it. IMO The question is whether the act is lewd in itself. OR does it fall under the category of guarding one's private parts.
There is a point to masturbation without without content. If you do so with a pure mind and sight, then at the point of orgasm, the amount of dopamine released is relaxing. Provided no one does it in excess (and i don't think they would if they keep their sight and mind pure) in my opnion it's a beneficial and relaxing thing. Similar to other things like watching a movie.
Others also claim that there are other health benefits but i don't know and don't mostly don't agree with them
So unless the act is lewd initself, or it falls under the category of not guarding one's private parts, then there is no implication of prohibition of masturbation in the Quran as far as i know.
Even if we take the Hadith, it would not be "clarifying" something in this case it would just be giving a new law. Kinda like stoning to death or in some cases the banning of music (or certain types of it) Im not sure as im not so familiar with the hadith.
Wasalam brother;
That is true, but it is still the thought/intention that counts. Thought leads to intention which leads to action, and acts can be judged by that. Lewdness of lewd thoughts does not depend on perspective in Islam. Anyway, if there is the slightest possibility of someone seeing it, then the person is not guarding themselves by that tiny chance. If there is no chance, then it will suffice to say that it is entirely between you (your mindset and the intentions within) and Allah (SWT). I would say it is fine to talk about these things as a matter of principle, but to derive or introduce any suggestion or intention into the subject is not guarding one's modesty. Likewise it is not the responsiblity of any person to encourage anyone to walk around their house nude without a reason.
"O children of Adam! We have indeed sent down to you clothing to cover your shame, and for beauty and clothing that GUARDS , that is the best. This is of the communications of Allah that they may be mindful."
726
Peace.
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Wasalam brother;
That is true, but it is still the thought/intention that counts. Thought leads to intention which leads to action, and acts can be judged by that. Lewdness of lewd thoughts does not depend on perspective in Islam. Anyway, if there is the slightest possibility of someone seeing it, then the person is not guarding themselves by that tiny chance. If there is no chance, then it will suffice to say that it is entirely between you (your mindset and the intentions within) and Allah (SWT). I would say it is fine to talk about these things as a matter of principle, but to derive or introduce any suggestion or intention into the subject is not guarding one's modesty. Likewise it is not the responsiblity of any person to encourage anyone to walk around their house nude without a reason.
"O children of Adam! We have indeed sent down to you clothing to cover your shame, and for beauty and clothing that GUARDS , that is the best. This is of the communications of Allah that they may be mindful."
726
Peace.
This is where you're wrong, i often think haram stuff on my mind that i don't intend doing.
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This is where you're wrong, i often think haram stuff on my mind that i don't intend doing.
The subject is masturbation and whether it is haram to do so after allowing yourself (unless you really can't stop) to think about it/dirty things leading you to do it. Nevertheless if you think about murdering someone or eating pork, unless you actually desire to do these things then naturally you will cease. If you still think of these things then either you have a problem/reason to think about it, or you are simply thinking about them for things to think about. In such a case it is no different to walking around one's house naked for no reason. It is neither halal nor haram according to my knowledge but they become so when the thoughts become intention which leads to action. Just remember it is all about intention, and if you do not have the intention then I can see no harm (nor benefit without a decent cause). This is not the case for masturbation with intent of enjoyment (as opposed to release/purification).
Peace.