Fallen angel or angels?
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In christianity/judaism there seems to be the concept that 2/3's of the heavenly host of angels fell from grace with God and lost their wings when thrown out of paradise to join Satan on earth and in hell. However, in Islam there seems to be the concept that only the angel that became Satan fell from grace, lost its wings, and became the devil and leader of the jinn.
I'm trying to understand this nuance so please correct me if I'm mistaken...
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In christianity/judaism there seems to be the concept that 2/3's of the heavenly host of angels fell from grace with God and lost their wings when thrown out of paradise to join Satan on earth and in hell. However, in Islam there seems to be the concept that only the angel that became Satan fell from grace, lost its wings, and became the devil and leader of the jinn.
I'm trying to understand this nuance so please correct me if I'm mistaken...
Actually, according to Islam, Satan was never an angel - he is an entirely different being from angels. We believe that there are angels, who are made of light, obedient to God, yet they have no free will and therefore cannot disobey God. Jinni are beings made of fire, and have free will. Satan is a jinn and used to be pious and was at the same ranks of some angels. Humans also have free will. Therefore, according to Islam, it's not possible for angels to fall from grace.
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Salaam,
Actually, according to Islam, Satan was never an angel - he is an entirely different being from angels. We believe that there are angels, who are made of light, obedient to God, yet they have no free will and therefore cannot disobey God. Jinni are beings made of fire, and have free will. Satan is a jinn and used to be pious and was at the same ranks of some angels. Humans also have free will. Therefore, according to Islam, it's not possible for angels to fall from grace.
Brother, can you please quote the references from AlQuraan about your understanding on this subject? I could not see that way. Please look at my understanding below
1850
1850 And We said to the angels Yield to Adam. So they all yielded except for Satan. He became the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord. Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy? Miserable for the transgressors is the substitute!Only angels were asked to prostrate, then if Shaitaan was not an angel why he came in between and got punished? He was surely an angel, when he disobeyed Allah, he became Jinn.
I believe that Angels and Jinn are made of same substance. And Shaitaan was not holding any rank over others.
Angels that is "Malaaika" are the plural of "Malak" that may translate as "King", so Shaitaan was among the kings holding same position, but when disobeyed, he was degraded to the category of Jinn.
713
713 He said Descend from it, for it is not for you to be arrogant here; depart, you are degraded.713 shows that he lost is position, but again, he was not of any high rank among them.
3875
3875 He said O Iblees, what prevented you from yielding to what I have created by My hands? Are you too arrogant? Or are you one of those exalted?This is how I understand this subject.
May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam,
Brother, can you please quote the references from AlQuraan about your understanding on this subject? I could not see that way. Please look at my understanding below
1850
1850 And We said to the angels Yield to Adam. So they all yielded except for Satan. He became the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord. Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy? Miserable for the transgressors is the substitute!Only angels were asked to prostrate, then if Shaitaan was not an angel why he came in between and got punished? He was surely an angel, when he disobeyed Allah, he became Jinn.
I believe that Angels and Jinn are made of same substance. And Shaitaan was not holding any rank over others.
Angels that is "Malaaika" are the plural of "Malak" that may translate as "King", so Shaitaan was among the kings holding same position, but when disobeyed, he was degraded to the category of Jinn.
713
713 He said Descend from it, for it is not for you to be arrogant here; depart, you are degraded.713 shows that he lost is position, but again, he was not of any high rank among them.
3875
3875 He said O Iblees, what prevented you from yielding to what I have created by My hands? Are you too arrogant? Or are you one of those exalted?This is how I understand this subject.
May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. KhanPeace,
I'm not going to try and flaunt any knowledge of Arabic, because I know very little, but I asked the same question several years ago. I'll try to paraphrase the response.
Arabic has a rule called "tagleeb" which, simply put, says that if the Majority is addressed, the Minority is also addressed. Iblis, being a Jinn, was the minority amongst an audience of Angels and was thus also commanded to prostrate.
In English, a similar situation would be a situation where I would address a group of my friends at a party and say "Hey guys! Come outside!" Even though I used the word 'guys' it is nearly universally accepted in English speaking cultures that I am addressing the group as a whole. This rule is different from tagleeb (because English is stupid like that) in the respect that even if there is a majority of women, "guys" still means everyone due to our history of gender inequalities and incompleteness of feminine words (for example, "Doctor" has no feminine counterpart). Also, Angels are made from light and Jinn from fire, so they cannot be the same.
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Salaam brother,
Arabic has a rule called "tagleeb" which, simply put, says that if the Majority is addressed, the Minority is also addressed. Iblis, being a Jinn, was the minority amongst an audience of Angels and was thus also commanded to prostrate.
I thing we must understand and remember always that AlQuraan is not just the Arabic Language, but it is the book of guidance from our Creator, The Knower of all. So, I did not find any aayat supporting your claim, please put forward such aayat if you know.
Angels are made from light and Jinn from fire, so they cannot be the same.
I know aayaat about Jinn created from fire, but Angels made of light? hmm Can you please give me the reference from AlQuraan?
May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother,
I thing we must understand and remember always that AlQuraan is not just the Arabic Language, but it is the book of guidance from our Creator, The Knower of all. So, I did not find any aayat supporting your claim, please put forward such aayat if you know.
I know aayaat about Jinn created from fire, but Angels made of light? hmm Can you please give me the reference from AlQuraan?
May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. KhanPeace,
Satan is identified as a Jinn in 1850
And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange.
We know from verses such as 666 that Angels do not disobey God, since they are literally unable to.
There is nothing in the Qur'an on the makeup of Angels - source of what they are created from is sadly only found in the hadith, which means I could indeed be wrong on my statement that Angels are created from light.
However, the Qur'an defines Jinn very clearly as being created from fire. Their distinction from Angels is also quite strong.
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Salaam Jinn,
Satan is identified as a Jinn in 1850
And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange.
Satan was not mentioned in 1850 but 'Iblees'
If you use 'WAS' for 'KAANA' in 1850 instead of 'BECAME', you may find difficulty in translating the following aayaats.
234
234 And We said to the angels Yield to Adam, so they yielded except for Satan, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.If you translate 'kaana' as 'was' then in 234 above it has to be translated as 'and was of the rejectors' that means there were already rejectors available.
297
297 Say Whoever become an enemy to Jibraeel, then know that he has sent it down into your heart with the permission of Allah, authenticating what is with him, and a guide and good news for the believers.2111
2111 And they said None shall enter the Paradise except those who become Hoodan or Nasaara; this is what they wish! Say Bring forth your proof if you are truthful.41
41 O people, be aware of your Lord who has created you from one person and He created from it its mate and sent forth from it many men and many women; and be aware of Allah whom you ask about, and the relatives. Allah became Watcher over you.'Kun', 'Yakoon' and 'Fayakoon' is all derivatives of 'Kaana' used in the following aayat.
347
347 She said My Lord, how can there be a son for me when no human being has been with me? He said It is thus that Allah creates what He wills, when He decrees a command, He merely says to it Be, and it becomes.We know from verses such as 666 that Angels do not disobey God, since they are literally unable to.
Sorry, I disagree, that is not referring to all Angels.
666
666 O you who believe, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones. Over which are angels stern and powerful who do not disobey Allah in what He commanded them; and they carry out what they are commanded to.This is referring to only angels over the fire.
May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
dude mmkhan you translations are not correct, if they were then the quran would be contradicting. because allah says angels can never disobey the commands of their lord. so if iblees was an angel he couldnt have not listened to allah.
Evidence please.
Mohammed M. Khan
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Evidence please.
Mohammed M. Khan
For NONE are arrogant (before their Lord). They ALL fear their Lord, high above them, and they do ALL they are commanded. -- Sura 1649-50
In the verse
And behold, We said to the angels "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis he refused and was haughty He was of those who reject Faith.
the nature of Ibl?s is not mentioned, i.e., whether he was an angel or someone else. But the verse
Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam" They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!
clarifies who Ibl?s is. He was one of Jinn not angels as wrongly claimed by the Christian missionaries.
We have used the traditional method of Qur'?nic exegesis involving Context & Internal Relationships, i.e., al-Qur'?n yufassiru bacduhu bacdan (different parts of the Qur'?n explain each other). What is given in a general way in one place is discussed in detail in some other place in the Qur'?n. What is dealt with briefly at one place is expanded in some other place.
And Allah knows best!
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For NONE are arrogant (before their Lord). They ALL fear their Lord, high above them, and they do ALL they are commanded. -- Sura 1649-50
Thank you for the aayaats, inshaAllah, I will check them in detail.
In the verse
And behold, We said to the angels "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis he refused and was haughty He was of those who reject Faith.
the nature of Ibl?s is not mentioned, i.e., whether he was an angel or someone else. But the verse
Look at red highlighted part from the translation above i.e., 234 it gives the answer.
Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam" They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!
The red part above is wrongly translated. Please look at the Arabic text and follow my previous post about the word KAANA.
May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
can we get back to the question?
2/3's, or just the moron satan?
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Peace Blackstone!
The 2/3 of the Angel theory is not in the realm of the Quran, however
God state that satan has his "descendents" (zoriya) and followers( yatabi3), and allies (wally).
God states that Satan and his allies can see us, But we cannot see them (4th dimension?)
God cites in the Quran that some humans invoke/try to communicate/seek help from jins (726)
Thus Satan, is not alone in his seeking-to-mislead-the-world plan.
May the Lord God protect us from the Devil and his influence! pr -
Jinn ? (Jeem-noon-noon).
Janna means hidden. According to Raghib, it means, not only hidden from the eyes but also from senses ? In verse 6/77 the Qur?an says ?When the night spread darkness over him, he saw a star. Jananun, means grave, as it hides the dead body. Iblees is also a Jinn as this force remains hidden from the eyes (18/30)
Janeen, is an infant in mother?s womb ? Junnantun ? is the shield or any weapon with which a person protects himself (58/16). ? Jinnatun ? means madness (23/25). The Arabs thought that majnoon was a person who was afflicted by a Jinn. According to Raghib ?al-Jinno? is being used in two ways. Firstly all the hidden forces (spiritual, positive) and in this context it also includes ?angels?, and those hidden forces which are evil are called ?Shiateen? (Taj, Raghib). The Qur?an also mentions about the Arabs doing worship of Jinn and there it means ?angels? (37/15 (Taj, Raghib).
The earth was in the beginning, in the form of a molten fire and it took billions of years to cool down to a tolerable temperature when it was suitable for the habitation of mankind. Before this there existed some creation, of which man was the successor (Khalifa). That specie was created out of fire (15/27). That specie is extinct now ? and is referred to as ?al-jaann?.
The Qur?an has referred to and addresses ?Jinn and Ins? in many verses together. Ins, (as explained under the heading ?Ins) means tribes settled at a place, and Jinn means those Bedouins, nomadic tribes or gypsies who kept on wandering from place to place and remained in deserts of forests away from cities. In Arabia such people were great in number. Since the message of the Qur?an was for both the types, it has pointedly addressed both of them. For instance
In verse 6/131 ?Oh Ye, assembly of Jinn and Ins don?t you know that a Rasool came to you from amongst you?. (In the Qur?an no reference is there to show that at any time a Jinn was also a Rasool). It is further clarified in verse 735 that the Rusul (plural) were from Bani-Adam and sent towards them. In Surahs Jinn and Ahq?af, a reference occurs where it is mentioned that a group of Jinns came to the Rasool to listen to the Qur?an (72/1, 46/29). This also shows that the group who came to Rasool-Allah (PBUH) were actually human beings, but from uncivilized tribes.
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Hi, my take on this one is that very superior aliens (in past times) came here to earth (many races did) and as they died they where reincarnated in soul and spirit into human bodies and so they "fell from grace", they come from great civilizations with great knowledge and power and when they reincarnated they became humans a miserable condition compared to what thay experienced before, luckily as the soul and spirit gets into another body, info about the past life is kept unconscious and so the individual will not remember consciously but might feel "not from this place".
Why it happened I don't know but it was the will of God, because none of them willed to reincarnate as humans. Nothing to do with evil-goodness.
A lot of the rh neg thing has to do with this I'm starting to think.
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Hi, my take on this one is that very superior aliens (in past times) came here to earth (many races did) and as they died they where reincarnated in soul and spirit into human bodies and so they "fell from grace", they come from great civilizations with great knowledge and power and when they reincarnated they became humans a miserable condition compared to what thay experienced before, luckily as the soul and spirit gets into another body, info about the past life is kept unconscious and so the individual will not remember consciously but might feel "not from this place".
Why it happened I don't know but it was the will of God, because none of them willed to reincarnate as humans. Nothing to do with evil-goodness.
A lot of the rh neg thing has to do with this I'm starting to think.
Hello WTA,
welcome to the forum.
Can you please get me some aayaats from AlQuraan for your claim? Thanks.
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Hi mmkhan!, I popped into the forum after reading the dream thread and posting there I found this most interesting post, but I don't have the aayaats you request of me this info I have taken from elsewhere.
My post was based in the similarity of characteristics between the gods of old in the old sumerian tradition and the angels in later tradition. And many other parcial sources.
I can't provide the aayaats, but I end my posting here.
Farewell.