Is Treating Allah as A God = Shirk ???

Kaiokenred

Salaam kaiokenred,

I'll point out once again for you, as you don't seem to grasp simple ideas, the existing common translations are fairly worthless, even a simple examination of the lexicons demonstrates they bear no resemblance to the real meanings, that's without considering the corruptions of the rules of grammar, they are in addition infected with the corruptions of religions like Christianity and Judaism, a prime example of that corruption is evidenced in the verse you have picked to demonstrate your ignorance. As I say good luck with your religious confusions.

Dude that was from arabic, Ilah means God doesn't it? What are you gonna come up now with, a new meaning of Ilah, like what is not god or something? And why does the Quran tell us Abraham was always a MONOtheist, if Quran tells us to regard Allah as Who is not god also?

sonnie

Salaam

Allah is the real existence

I have yet to arrive at an independent understanding of what Allah is. inshAllah, I will one day figure it out... but I am constantly surprised & shocked that many people here already have it all figured out!! How are you all so confident what Allah is or is not?

2435
Allah is the Fountain-Head of physical and spiritual light illuminating the heavens and the earth. His light is beyond all comparison, (to be perceived by the human mind), it may be likened to the radiance emitting from a lustrous recess where a lamp stands enclosed in a glass tube or encased in glass featuring extraordinary brilliance as if it were an extra ordinary bright star lit by spiritual invisible combustion from a blessed tree, an olive tree (an ancient emblem of peace) standing in the open, never lost to view. It is not confined to the east nor to the west. Its oil almost emits light although not touched by a flame. Majestic light superimposed upon splendorous light attendant upon a manifestation of Allah Who attracts to His spiritual light whom He will, and Allah discourses to people parables by which moral and spiritual relations are typically set forth, and He is 'Alimun of all things.

2435
God is the Light of the heavens and the Earth. The example of His light is like a concave mirror within a lamp, the lamp is within a glass, the glass is like a radiant planet, which is lit from a blessed olive tree that is neither of the east nor of the west, its oil nearly gives off light even if not touched by fire. Light upon light, God guides to His light whom He pleases. And God sets forth parables for mankind, and God is aware of all things.

2435
God is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His light is, as it were, " or "indicating a metaphor&quot. In the above context it alludes to the impossibility of defining God even by means of a metaphor or a parable - for, since "there is nothing like unto Him" (4211, there is also "nothing that could he compared with Him" 1124. Hence, the parable of "the light of God" is not meant to express His reality - which is inconceivable to any created being and, therefore, inexpressible in any human language - but only to allude to the illumination which He, who is the Ultimate Truth, bestows upon the mind and the feelings of all who are willing to be guided. Tabari, Baghawi and lbn Kathir quote Ibn Abbas and lbn Masud as saying in this context "It is the parable of His light in the heart of a believer."] that of a niche containing a lamp; the lamp is in glass, the glass like a radiant star like a radiant star&quot for it is through reason alone that true faith can find its way into the heart of man.] lit from a blessed tree - an olive-tree that is neither of the east nor of the west - the oil whereof would well-nigh give light even though fire had not touched it light upon light! and clearly showing the truth" (cf. note on 121) and it is, I believe, this aspect of the Quran that the above sentence alludes to. Its message gives light because it proceeds from God; but it would well-nigh give light even though fire had not touched it" i.e., even though one may be unaware that it has been "touched by the fire" of divine revelation, its inner consistency, truth and wisdom ought to be self-evident to anyone who approaches it in the light of his reason and without prejudice.] God guides unto His light him that wills ; and God propounds parables unto men, since God has full knowledge of all things.

More translations of 2435

almarh0m

Salaam

I have yet to arrive at an independent understanding of what Allah is. inshAllah, I will one day figure it out... but I am constantly surprised & shocked that many people here already have it all figured out!! How are you all so confident what Allah is or is not?

Peace

Keep striving to know what Allah is through effort, patience and prayers (sincerely from your heart and mind), Allah who created you it is he who will guide you to Himself. Why are you so surprised and shocked to see some people are so certain about Allah? We come to know Allah through using our logic and reasons and through studying The Qur'an and other important subjects that affect our everyday life, be an observer of Allah's creations and reflect on them. Understanding of Allah with knowledge and wisdom does not come overnight. Knowledge alone isn't sufficient, we need life experiences to attain wisdom.

Peace be on you

almarh0m

p.s. By "Prayers" I do not mean The Bendover kind of Prayers.

Halil

Yeah right, gimme a break. You saying that after having read the Quran one does not have a good bearing on who the creator of the universe is and expects from you? And than further as if things were SO very unclear im supposed to apply further reason and logic because clearly i have no clue of what im doing?

So many discussions leaning towards this type of promotion of "faith". Its becoming ridiculous.

And its not even like i didnt have a decent bearing on the concept of the creator even when i used to be a clueless atheist, for that matter.

And "Abd"un Nur, you.... ooh you... youre quite the piece of work arent you? I dont know who you are behind that little avatar facade of yours but you really and i mean really give me the vibes. Ill tell you what though. We are all converging on the inevitable truth. As such sooner or later and rather sooner, we are all bound to find out everyting arent we? Your kind in particular are the ones id like to see faring on the day of days.
I pray to God for justice in all things and i love him for the wonderful way in which he brings out the truth in all of us.

Good luck trying to "figure" out God. Id rather spend my life, having been blessed with his guidance so far, in striving as much as i can towards him.
Whats the point anyway in "knowing", if you dont put that into some use in spirit and worship?

Btw, Kaiokenred, i really admire your faith and reason for such an early age my young bro. If i look back at myself at that age id stand out as quite the trash in contrast. Keep going on that path throughout your life my brother dont let go. May God bless you and hold you firm.

Abdun_Nur

Salaam Halil,

faith, the blind belief in something without reason or evidence, as you need not have faith in what is proved to be true, that would be firm belief, when you have spent a life time in blind faith, yes we shall see who is the one based in reason and the one based in fantasy. I wish you luck with religion, it has no place in Islam, even the Qur'an tells you that, but faith in traditions and religions blinding all invested in it, and drives all reason from the mind.

Jafar

Peace

I have been wondering if Allah=God or "The God" and we start worshipping Him instead of serving him for the benefit of fellow human and other creatures. If we equate Allah to God, doesn't that connote that Allah needs, to be worshipped?

NO..
what's in a name? as shakespare said.. Allah, God, YHVH, Ahura Mazda, Tao, Brahman... you can name Him anyway you wanted..
And God doesn't need to be worshiped...

I am sure that any thinking person out there knows that a Creator of Everything does not need anything including worship. Let's see what Allah says about Himself and "SHIRK" in some verses.

SHIRK = Abandoning / Forsaking, in this context it will be abandoning/forsaking your commandment / due duty..
Abdu/Budu = SERVING and not worshipping..
SALAT = Duty due / Commandment and not "The ritualized praying"..

Again God doesn't need to be worshiped... in fact he doesn't ask any of you for anything..
He only 'recommend / suggest' certain actions / attitude to you for your own good/gain not for His own good/gain..

God created everything for His purpose and accordingly with the plan..and those who are not 'aligned' with His future plan shall be eliminated.. we recognized it as "Natural Selection".. For homo sapiens the law applied is "The Survival Of The Nicest"..

Salam / Peace

mmkhan

NO..
what's in a name? as shakespare said.. Allah, God, YHVH, Ahura Mazda, Tao, Brahman... you can name Him anyway you wanted..
And God doesn't need to be worshiped...

As Allah said

7180

7180 And to Allah belong the most beautiful names, so call Him by them; and leave alone those who deviate His names. They will be punished for what they used to do.

May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

Jafar

7180 And to Allah belong the most beautiful names, so call Him by them; and leave alone those who deviate His names. They will be punished for what they used to do.

Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the AlRahmana. Whichever you call - to Him belong the best names."
17110

As Shakespare said.. "What's in a name?"...

As I said Allah, God, Al Rahmana, YHVH, Father, Abinu Sebashamayim, Brahman, Hyang, Ahura Mazda, Tao..
Call Him / It any names you want.. to Him/It belong the beautiful names..

Salam / Pace

mmkhan

Salaam,

Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the AlRahmana. Whichever you call - to Him belong the best names."
17110

Only Allah OR AlRahman, nothing more here.

As Shakespare said.. "What's in a name?"...

As I said Allah, God, Al Rahmana, YHVH, Father, Abinu Sebashamayim, Brahman, Hyang, Ahura Mazda, Tao..
Call Him / It any names you want.. to Him/It belong the beautiful names..

Salam / Pace

Not any, but to Allah belongs the beautiful names, so call Him by "THEM"

7180

7180 And to Allah belong the most beautiful names, so call Him by them; and leave alone those who deviate His names. They will be punished for what they used to do.

May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

Jafar

Salaam,

Only Allah OR AlRahman, nothing more here.

You missed the word "ayyan ma tad'u" which literally translated as "BY WHATEVER YOU INVOKE"..
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=17&verse=110

Grow up dude... Allah is "The God" (Al-Ilah) in arabic language, God is known by other names in other culture / languages...
By whatever names you invoke Him in whatever tongue / language.. it is well..

My Indians friends calls me "Khumar"
My American friends calls me "Bro J"
and I'm cool with it.. What's in a name??

Salam / Peace

Prince

You missed the word "ayyan ma tad'u" which literally translated as "BY WHATEVER YOU INVOKE"..
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=17&verse=110

Grow up dude... Allah is "The God" (Al-Ilah) in arabic language, God is known by other names in other culture / languages...
By whatever names you invoke Him in whatever tongue / language.. it is well..

My Indians friends calls me "Khumar"
My American friends calls me "Bro J"
and I'm cool with it.. What's in a name??

Salam / Peace

Exactly. Too many people are stuck in the semantics world that they forget the The Most High created all languages....some humans have a problem with diversity whereas The God wants and allows diversity.

PEACE

mmkhan

Salaam Jafar,

You missed the word "ayyan ma tad'u" which literally translated as "BY WHATEVER YOU INVOKE"..
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=17&verse=110

"Ayyan ma tad'oo" does not mean "by whatever you invoke" nor "whichever you call" as you said in your reply # 20, but it can be translated as "WHOEVER you call"

You conclusion may also contradict 7180, if you don't think so, please explain how.

For more detail you can also refer 619, 681, 7185, 1812, etc...

May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

rahenijaat1

Salam and Peace on everyone!

Please explain what---"Tasawwuf (Mysticism)"---is???

Peace!

sonnie

^ you should really change your signature to something smaller. In fact, most forums consider sig of that length as spam.

Anyways, I DO consider praising Allah as an idol a sin. Praising him in any other; there is no sin in that.

Prince

^ you should really change your signature to something smaller. In fact, most forums consider sig of that length as spam.

I agree. It makes reading your posts and topics abit of a pain.

PEACE

rahenijaat1

Salam and Peace!

^ you should really change your signature to something smaller. In fact, most forums consider sig of that length as spam.

Okay!---I have done it.

Anyways, I DO consider praising Allah as an idol a sin. Praising him in any other; there is no sin in that.

Allah never said Praise Me as an idol.-----Seek refuge in Allah!

There is no example of Allah.
No one can set a specific imagination about Allah.

Allah's Exalted Book is Allah's Introduction.
We should read it and contemplate in it.

It is only Allah, Who tells us Who Allah is.

Prince

^^Thank You!!

sonnie

I don't praise my creator an an idol. Allah is my creator and sustainer; praise automatically happen from within me everytime I realize how blessed I am.

Praise can also mean to reverence and taking refuge with Allah.

Salaam )

MUNZIR_ALI

Salaam,

I find it unsettling why anyone would want to worship a God, being by definition a fantasy of their mind, Allah never requests it, yet they corrupt and pervert the meanings of words to convert them in to worship, as if the personified god they have invented within their own mind has a 'God complex', requiring constant reassurance, pointless acts of blind devotion, resulting in metal stagnation, just to feel that his creation still loves him; I say 'him' as a female personification is called a goddess.

I ascribe this need to worship and pray to an outside authority as a failure to develop the mind to any point of reason, which is extremely unsettling!

What about the 'bow' and 'prostrate' to God in the Quran? what about the concept of "repentance" and 'sin'
What about heaven and hell the quran speaks that orignally came from Judaism, then Christianity.

Zulf

Peace,

Been browsing this thread and thought I'd post some scattered remarks as per my own ideas

Everything has many different levels of understanding. We are all at different levels and it doesn't matter where others are, we just have to work on improving ourselves. None of us has the ultimate truth anyway, although many foolishly thinks so.
Faith only seems blind to those who don't have the ability to experience it.
Proof is a very relative term, relative to our current ability to understand and perceive.
Allah is a good word/name for the creator since we don't have derivations of it, like god --> godess, godlike, god father, godly, gods. It is still just a word so our minds can express in language and thoughts what we are talking and thinking about. The name is not part of what it denotes. If our concept of Allah is good, then it doesn't matter what names we use... it hopefully wouldn't change our concept.
All techniques and methods Allah has given us is not for the purpose of receiving worship. They are tools to help us refine our souls/minds/characters in direction of love/purity so that we will BE ABLE to cope with Allah's light in case of being close to him. Serving and worship and good deeds etc etc are meant as ways for us to repair ourselves so that we can come "back home". It's all about us. Allah needs nothing. All good we do we do it to save ourselves. If we live in negativity then we won't be able to stand Allah presence and we will be forced away, like "vampires shunning away from sunlight", due to our negative nature.
We don't praise Allah because we should or are expected to. We praise Allah because we WANT to. We can't help but praise Allah when we see the signs in our world.... in nature, in people, in our lives. We praise Allah to purify our minds, to align our minds and to have more of love and purity in our minds.. in other words to get closer to Allah.

Peace