Article on Angels
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peace warner,
Nowhere did I agree that. I am not saying 711 by itself is 100% proof of the viewpoint I highlighted. I think it is significant and asked for your explanation of it, to which you responded by saying "thumma" can also mean "and". Fair enough. It does not seem to read like that, but it is possible.From PRL
thumma - then, afterwards, moreover, mostly used as a conjunction indicating a sequence in line or order to be rendered as then/thereafter, also used as a more simple conjunction - and.For me, there does seem to be an interplay between the individual and collective, due to the story of adam being an allegory/parable.
Also see 20123
He said "Descend from this, all, some of you (plural) are to others enemy. So, when My guidance comes to you (plural), then, whoever follows (singular) My guidance, he (singular) will not go astray nor suffer."Also see part 10 of this book
http//www.scribd.com/doc/37354743/Understanding-Quran-Themes-and-Style-by-Abdel-Haleem -
Peace Wakas
Please direct me to any discussion on support of allegorical nature of the story of adam.
In my opinion 20123 may refer to
- Adam and his partner, satan and his group (the jinns, since he was one of those)
or - The symbolic reference to paradise lost for all mankind, due to the actions of their first father and mother ( again, single father, adam)
Both cases above can justify the use of plurals in 20123.
Also if mazhar is correct on the use of the pronoun for dual the argument is stronger.
- Adam and his partner, satan and his group (the jinns, since he was one of those)
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peace,
I already linked you to a book that dedicates a part to this topic. You can opt to read it or not.
Yes it is dual for that verb, but the rest Mazhar did not comment on. See corpus.quran.com for the grammar.
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Yes it is dual for that verb, but the rest Mazhar did not comment on. See corpus.quran.com for the grammar. Wakas
Word by word Analysis of 20123
Word by word Analysis of 236
Difference between imperative command, and a general pronouncement giving information applicable to all in future needs to be noted.
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Salaam bro,
It does not mean that what ever others believe is wrong in total and we have to create a new meaning for each and every word and change all the stories.
I translated 'Malak' as 'King' already in another thread which is very close the above translation, please take a look http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602167.msg277408#msg277408
Now you have to show me how did you extract those meanings? The meaning of 'Malak' that you made above is something similar that I believe is the meaning of wahi.
May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. KhanSalam brother
would you be able to help me with this
What is the meaning WaL Malaaikathu
and Wa Malaaikati -
Peace Wakas
I read the book "Understanding the Quran" but did not find any thing to support the allegorical nature of Adam.
According to the book, the story of Adam, creation , falling in to error and expulsion from the garden, all seem
real with moral lessons to be drawn from it. -
peace warner,
That book shows that the biblical account treats the story of adam as a historical account, i.e. it literally happened, whilst The Quran does not treat it in such a manner. If it is not a historical account, then what is it?
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable -
Thanks Mazhar for the links. Although the grammatical analysis is excellent here it would be more user friendly if each
cell with the Arabic word contains the English translation as well.Allah, the Exalted, willing, I will put each single word on a different page, giving its meanings and perception and the added connotation by additional consonants and placing of vowels, linking it with the main Root article, and including therein complete text of all the Aayaat where it ocurs to show the effect, it accepts, of the semantic field where it is put. I intend to do it after completing grammatical analysis of structuring of sentences since it is also helping construct the Lexicon and concordance side by side with full grammatical explanation.
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peace warner,
That book shows that the biblical account treats the story of adam as a historical account, i.e. it literally happened, whilst The Quran does not treat it in such a manner. If it is not a historical account, then what is it?
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ParablePeace Walas,
There is no "allegory" sort of thing in the Episode of Adam alahissalam mentioned in Grand Qur'aan. The Grand Qur'aan is Al Haqo, a statement of proven/established fact and is "Basairo", it mentions an happened episode in the manner that one can visualize the physical happening.
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Salaam gazzali,
InshaAllah I will try.
What is the meaning WaL Malaaikathu
and Wa MalaaikatiFor me there is no difference except the 'AL' which means 'THE' in English.
'WA' means 'AND' in both the examples. And the words used above can be translated as
Wa + Al + Malaaikatu
And + the + Angels = And the Angels
Wa + Malaaikati + Hi
And + Angels + His = And His Angels
Hope this helps, inshaAllah
May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Peace Wakas
My mistake, I skimmed through the book, missing the section which deals on the historical nature of the ?creation story? in general and ?story of Adam? in particular in the bible and its attempt to contrast this with the lack of historical account and detail in the Quran on these subjects to suggest the symbolic nature of these incidents.
In fact, it surprised me that someone like you who is leagues ahead of this author in knowledge of the Quran cite his hypothesis as evidence for the presumed allegorical nature of Adam. The author mired in hadith, clearly brings out his lack of knowledge of the Quran throughout the book, even believing a specific verse in the Quran was revealed due to the particular sex position of the bashful Madina ladies. His white washing attitude towards tradition and sectarian authority is almost laughable with his questioning of the authority of Aquinas and Augustine while defending the credibility of Muslim scholarship due to textual credibility of authentic hadith. A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. And, the Author?s reason for Muslims not questioning Darwin?s evolution theory, well, that is a show stopper.
Made me think which part of the Genesis is not an historical account for that matter? In every account names, numbers, years, weights and measurements are the norm rather than the exception. This similarity we find in hadith and history books, with every name of the family tree from Abraham to Ismael and then to Muhammad, the 5000 year history of Mecca and Kaaba, every incident of Muhammad with names and numbers, also the names and details of a million persons who lived during 6 ? 8 AD. Well it does not take a genius to figure out most of these details are human corruption and additions to gain an attempt at authenticity. The lack of details in the quran does not disqualify it from being real when addressing historical accounts and actual incidents but due to its concise non cumbersome manner and matter of fact nature, void of corruption. This lack of details does not make stories in the Quran allegorical either. (I will write more on allegory later, if God permits)
It?s not like God made up a complete story, which is a total lie, for us to draw moral lessons from but to debate for thousands of years whether it is the truth or lies.
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I prefere translating Malak as Controller.
Peace,
Edip -
Salaam gazzali,
InshaAllah I will try.
For me there is no difference except the 'AL' which means 'THE' in English.
'WA' means 'AND' in both the examples. And the words used above can be translated as
Wa + Al + Malaaikatu
And + the + Angels = And the Angels
Wa + Malaaikati + Hi
And + Angels + His = And His Angels
Hope this helps, inshaAllah
May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. KhanSalam brother
thank you so much
Alhamdu lillah
