Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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ramadan after autumn solice the full moon.three days
The most scorching heat and the most red moon appear in Arabia in general after summer-solstice, not during the autumn.
The first full moon after june 21 seems to be the correct timing.one question when is ashhur hurum.and al shahr el haram.and if el shahr was only full moon then they used to stop fighting for three days and then go back to fighting,so it is four month with three days of nonfighting in every month.i dontknow but that does not seem to make sense.
The timing of the four -restricted full moons- seems to need more investigation.
There seems not be found compelling koranic evidence for the timing of them.When four full moons are mentioned together - then the days between them are rather to be included.
The four -restriced full moons- 3 x 29.5 + 3 days makes about 91.5 days - including the duration of three days of the last full moon.
The first day of the first full moon could be the marker of the start of the -restricted full moons-.
The last day of the last full moon could be the marker of the end of the -restricted full moons-.as for what kind of fasting.in al haj is it fasting from food or speaking.it is not stated and how can you tell.
i know ramadan is fasting from food for it is said to do so.but after haj is it food or speaking that we must obstain from ,please if you can reflect on these.
that remains for an answer yet.You are right that the type of fast can depend on the context - the fast of Maryam - 1926.
But during the -hajj- the fast seems to be at least concerning the food - since verse 2196 contains rulings about the subject of offerings - food-provision.
It seems hard and not very relevant - not to speak during three days of the -hajj- and even more when one arrived at home and one would have to be silent another 7 days.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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The issue remains that verse 2196 does not state that all the complete counts -ma'doodat- should go until 10.
It does clearly state that the "10" is complete. Why did the god say that it is 10 and "complete"? The god knows that any idiot can add 3+7 and thus saying 3+7 would have been 100% sufficient if what you are saying is even remotely true.
When the Koran does not state in any verse that - all the complete counts -madoodat- should go until 10 -, then we should not make this a general rule.
This is because you assume that "maadoodat" can be anything. Maadoodat is 3-10. The fact that 2196 states that 10 is complete further confirms this.
It is interesting that verse 2196 states that the communal fast of a special group of people during the -hajj- was 3 days.
If the -hajj- started with the full moon - there could be an analogy with verse 2185.The "hajj" does indeed start with the full-moon.
The 7 other days that are mentioned in verse 2196 had to be fasted individually at different days, depending on the duration of the way home.
You are once again not reading the complete passage until the end as you did with
Please read until the end of the passage. It clearly says that waiting to get back is only for those whose family are not in the inviolable institution of obedience
This (7 days when you return) is for the one whose family are not in the inviolable institution of obedience and be forethoughtful of the god and know that the god is severe in retribution.
So for those whose family is in the inviolable institution of obedience the fast would be a continuous period for the complete 10 days. While for those whose family are not, the fast would also be the complete 10 days but they would be broken up into 3 and 7 days.
Peace,
Ayman
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i still think that our answers are speculative,can we find a more direct answer.
i hope we can,but pls we need that ,stateing the scorching heat of that time,well where is it reflected in the quran,as for a meaning for the word ramadan,it is only dictionaries and we will not take that into account.
let us look further into ramadan.
it is said in the quarn "shahru ramadan ilazi unzilla fihi ilquran ,hudan linnah ,wa bayinatin mina al huda wal furqan"
here there are two clear words " HUDA and FURQAN"they will lead us to what and when is Ramadan.
it is also said in the Quran that ,we where given the stars for Huda.
"litahtadu biha"
and Allah knows best,
please reflect,let us use the quran and not any dictionary for reflection
salam tell me what you think,let us look into this further.i hope to look deeper into FURQAN and Huda and "kutiba alaykum el siyam kama kutiba ala ilazeena min qablikum "
all this must be taken into account.
al shahr is not the full moon.
for allah has given precise terms in the quran ,no puzzles.
this must be looked into further. i do appreciate all your effort,and i do take it seriously,thank you all.
but i am still looking let us keep our faith that Allah will give us guidance.
salam -
It does clearly state that the "10" is complete. Why did the god say that it is 10 and "complete"? The god knows that any idiot can add 3+7 and thus saying 3+7 would have been 100% sufficient if what you are saying is even remotely true.
Verse 2196 states that a 10 is complete because in this special case 3 and 7 have to be added.
There are more examples in the Koran that a combination of numbers is mentioned in a special way.
For instance
verse 2914 - 1000 minus 50
verse 1825 - 300 plus 9
Verse 2196 gives the total of the to be added numbers, the reason for this is unclear.
From this we can not induce a general rule that all the counts should be until 10.
If all the complete sums where to go until 10 - then there rather would be a clear ruling.
We should avoid making rules when the verses of the Koran do not indicate this.The wording concerning the count in verse 2196 is different from verse 2185 and 2203.
- Verse 2196 does not contain the word -'adat-.
- Verses 2185 and 2203 contain a form of the word -'adat-.
This is an extra indication that verse 2196 does not explain verse 2185 in any way.
Furthermore - the verses are about the fast of different groups of people in different circumstances.
This is because you assume that "maadoodat" can be anything. Maadoodat is 3-10. The fact that 2196 states that 10 is complete further confirms this.
I did not write or assume that -ma'doodat- can be anything, as you suggest.
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So one can only say from verse 2196 that -ayyam ma'doodat- means 3 as a standard and can mean 2 or somewhat more than 3.
From this verse one can not deduce that one could stay 10 days during the -hajj-.
unquote -
It is your assumption that ma'doodat is 3 - 10.
One can only deduce from verse 2203 that the -count ma'doodat- is 3 or 2 or somewhat more than 3.
There is no proven connection with verse 2196 - also because of the absence of the word -'adat-, which is present in verses 2203 and 2185.You are once again not reading the complete passage until the end as you did with
Please read until the end of the passage. It clearly says that waiting to get back is only for those whose family are not in the inviolable institution of obedienceThis (7 days when you return) is for the one whose family are not in the inviolable institution of obedience and be forethoughtful of the god and know that the god is severe in retribution.
So for those whose family is in the inviolable institution of obedience the fast would be a continuous period for the complete 10 days. While for those whose family are not, the fast would also be the complete 10 days but they would be broken up into 3 and 7 days.The way that you read the last part of verse 2196 seems not to be compelling.
Rather the total ruling of -a fast of 3 + 7 days- is only for the participants who can not give an offering whose family does not live near the -masjid el haram-.
One can assume from this that
The family of the poor participant provided for the food for him/her, the poor participant probably stayed at their homes.
So they where not dependend on the food-provision of the -hajj-organisation.I missed a reaction to following
It would be particular to assume that our Creator gave the details of the time-frame of only special occasions of fasting for some special people and not for the general communal fast of -shahr ramadan-.- 492 - a fast of two consecutive full moons in case of unvoluntary manslaughter and one can not compensate in another prescribed way.
- 584 - a fast of two consecutive full moons in case of a certain wrong manner of divorce.
- 589 - a fast of three day in case of breaking a serious oath and one can not compensate in another prescribed way.
- 2196 - a dual fast of 3 + 7 days for a special group of visitors of the -hajj-.
It seems to be particular to assume that for the communal fast of -shahr ramadan- the believers are not precisely instructed and that they should read in sources next to the Koran that a -count ma'dootan- has to be until 10 - since this general rule is not found in the Koran.
Verse 2185 seems to be complete and detailed in this matter - no assumptions needed.
... Therefore, those of you who witnessed the -full moon- shall fast it ...
The ones who missed the communal fast, or one or two days of it, can fast other days and complete the relevant count - in this case that seems to be until three, the duration of a full moon.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Salaam brothers TS and Ayman,
This is because you assume that "maadoodat" can be anything. Maadoodat is 3-10. The fact that 2196 states that 10 is complete further confirms this.
Can you please explain how you understand 'maadoodat' is 3-10 brother? If the figure is not fixed specially in case of fasting then there is no problem in fasting any number of days between 3-10, because 2196 says that completion of 3+7 is 10, but does not clarify that the completion of maadoodat is 10.
One can only deduce from verse 2203 that the -count ma'doodat- is 3 or 2 or somewhat more than 3.
2203 never states that maadoodaat could be less then or more then 3, it simply clarifies that it is just fixed 3.
If you notice the words used in 2203 are 'yaumaini' and 'ta-aqqara'. The usage of word 'yaumani' means 2 days clears it all when it came with the combination of the word 'ta-'ajjala' means hasten.
Clarification from 2203
Two days - Is not possible maadoodaat, because it is 'hastening in maadoodaat' and 'yaumaini' itself means 2 days not maadoodaat.
Three days - Is possible maadoodaat, because two days is hastening in it and four days is delaying in it.
Four days - Is not possible maadoodaat, because if four days or more then that is maadoodaat, then what about 3 days? And we should not forget that 2196 states the total Hajj period is 3 days. Therefore, this falls under 'ta-aqqara' means 'delay'.
May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Peace Eid,
You are assuming that 4615 and 2233 apply to the rare maximum gestation period and not the normal. The great reading is not talking about the maximum rare gestation period. It is talking about what is normal. Also, please see what I copied in blue above. This maximum is due to the way modern science calculates pregnancy based on the event of the last menstruation and variation of when actual conception occurred relative to this event (like the full-moon is an event).
So interpreting "shahr" as full-moon covers the normal while allowing for the range up to the max that modern science determined. On the other hand, the traditional definition of "shahr" as a 29.5 days lunar month will always result in the max of 294 and never the normal, which is false. This is why it is impossible. It is a physical impossibility that every human gestation is the max 294 days as your interpretation would imply.
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman,
Using full moons is short 29 days unless using maximum ?
10 full moons (29.53059 x 9) = 266
20 full moons (29.53059 x 19) = 561
30 full moons (29.53059 x 29) = 856266 + 561 = 827 (short 29 days)
10 full moons (29.53059 x 10) = 295
20 full moons (29.53059 x 20) = 591
30 full moons (29.53059 x 30) = 886295 + 591 = 886
Only like terms need to be reconciled...
00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30(3114) and his separation (wafiluhu) < two years (mayni)
(4615) and bearing of him and his separation (wafiluhu) thirty shahr30 months ? gestation < 2 years
30 months < 2 years + 10 months
2.425 years < 2.8 yearsal-awli (ِ pregnancy cycle
awlayni (ِ two pregnancy cycles
yur'i'na (َ breastfeeding
filan (ا separation2233 And the mothers shall suckle/yur'i'na (َ their children awlayni (ِ for who wishes to complete the suckling/al-raata (َ
And upon the father (on) him their provision and their clothing in fair manner. Not is burdened any soul only its capacity not made to suffer (the) mother because of her child and not (the) father be because of his child and on the heirs like that
So if they both desire separation/filan (ا through mutual consent from both them and consultation so no blame on both of them
And if you want to ask other women to suckle/tastari your children so no blame on you when you pay what you give in a fair manner
And fear Allah and know that Allah of what you do All-Seer
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Salaam brother Mohammed
2203 never states that maadoodaat could be less then or more then 3, it simply clarifies that it is just fixed 3.
If you notice the words used in 2203 are 'yaumaini' and 'ta-aqqara'. The usage of word 'yaumani' means 2 days clears it all when it came with the combination of the word 'ta-'ajjala' means hasten.
Clarification from 2203
Two days - Is not possible maadoodaat, because it is 'hastening in maadoodaat' and 'yaumaini' itself means 2 days not maadoodaat.
Three days - Is possible maadoodaat, because two days is hastening in it and four days is delaying in it.
Four days - Is not possible maadoodaat, because if four days or more then that is maadoodaat, then what about 3 days? And we should not forget that 2196 states the total Hajj period is 3 days. Therefore, this falls under 'ta-aqqara' means 'delay'.
I agree with you that one can read verse 2203 in a way that one can conclude that -ma'doodat- refers only to the number three.
But one could read the verse also in the following way The number of days that one may join the -hajj- was -ma'doodat-.
The verse clarifies that this number is three days as a standard, but that it also can be two or somewhat more than three.
The wording -ma'doodat- seems to indicate a number that can be called a few - three and the numbers around it.the word -ma'doodat- in others contexts
verse 280 and 324 - few days in the fire.
verse 1220 - few dirhams, as a price for Yusuf - a symbolical low price.These verses seem to indicate that -ma'doodat- refers to a small number.
One could assume if -ma'doodat- only can mean three, that the word three could have been used in stead of the word -ma'doodat-.Together with verse 2203 one could say that the word -ma'doodat- refers to the number three, or means two or somewhat more.
Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Salaam brother,
I agree with you that one can read verse 2203 in a way that one can conclude that -ma'doodat- refers only to the number three.
But one could read the verse also in the following way The number of days that one may join the -hajj- was -ma'doodat-.
The verse clarifies that this number is three days as a standard, but that it also can be two or somewhat more than three.
The wording -ma'doodat- seems to indicate a number that can be called a few - three and the numbers around it.the word -ma'doodat- in others contexts
verse 280 and 324 - few days in the fire.
verse 1220 - few dirhams, as a price for Yusuf - a symbolical low price.These verses seem to indicate that -ma'doodat- refers to a small number.
One could assume if -ma'doodat- only can mean three, that the word three could have been used in stead of the word -ma'doodat-.Together with verse 2203 one could say that the word -ma'doodat- refers to the number three, or means two or somewhat more.
Correct! But still, if you take madoodaat as any number from 3-10, then how will you decide the number of fasting during Ramadhan? From 2203 we can get the exact number i.e., 3. I think this number 3 may refer to all the aayaats where the maadoodaat is used.
At the moment, we does not require to know the exact number in other aayaats where the word 'maadoodaat' is used, but we must have to know the exact number of Ramadhan for fasting.
2203 is not directly referring to Ramadhan but it is about Hajj, and when we take the count of fasting in Ramadhan from 2203 then the same exact number will refer to all the aayaats where the word maadoodaat is used.
The reason of using the word maadoodaat instead of three is still unknown. Allah knows best.
May Allah guide us all to His true path. pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother,
Verse 2185 seems to be complete and detailed in this matter - no assumptions needed.
... Therefore, those of you who witnessed the -full moon- shall fast it ...
The ones who missed the communal fast, or one or two days of it, can fast other days and complete the relevant count - in this case that seems to be until three, the duration of a full moon.I got a problem here.
2185
2185 Shahr of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever witness AlShahr, he shall fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful.
If
Shahru = Full moon
Ash-huru = Full moonsThen, the word used in 2185 is "" that means "So, he shall fast it".
Falyasum + HU and "Hu" is singular, that cannot be referring to plural full moons, either 3 full moons or more. If it has to be plural the word would be "FALYASUM + HUNNA". To understand it better please follow
2185
2197
Please note that the word 'AlShahra' is singular in 2185, and 'Ash-hurun' is plural in 2197. In the same way 'hu' of falysumhu is singular in 2185 and 'hinna' of feehinna is also plural in 2197.
This shows that 2185 is not referring to 3 full moons. As always, my doubt about 'shahr' being full-moon is increasing now.
May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother
Correct! But still, if you take madoodaat as any number from 3-10, then how will you decide the number of fasting during Ramadhan? From 2203 we can get the exact number i.e., 3. I think this number 3 may refer to all the aayaats where the maadoodaat is used.
At the moment, we does not require to know the exact number in other aayaats where the word 'maadoodaat' is used, but we must have to know the exact number of Ramadhan for fasting.
2203 is not directly referring to Ramadhan but it is about Hajj, and when we take the count of fasting in Ramadhan from 2203 then the same exact number will refer to all the aayaats where the word maadoodaat is used.
The reason of using the word maadoodaat instead of three is still unknown. Allah knows best.
In verse 2203 one can only read that -ma'doodat- refers to three or two or a number slightly higher than three (be it four or five).
The verse does not imply a count until ten - that would be out of context - the difference would be too big to call an increase of the stay during the -hajj- with more than 200% - just a delay.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Salaam brother
I got a problem here.
2185
2185 Shahr of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever witness AlShahr, he shall fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful.
If
Shahru = Full moon
Ash-huru = Full moonsThen, the word used in 2185 is "" that means "So, he shall fast it".
Falyasum + HU and "Hu" is singular, that cannot be referring to plural full moons, either 3 full moons or more. If it has to be plural the word would be "FALYASUM + HUNNA". To understand it better please follow
2185
2197
Please note that the word 'AlShahra' is singular in 2185, and 'Ash-hurun' is plural in 2197. In the same way 'hu' of falysumhu is singular in 2185 and 'hinna' of feehinna is also plural in 2197.
This shows that 2185 is not referring to 3 full moons. As always, my doubt about 'shahr' being full-moon is increasing now.
Verse 2185 refers only to one special full moon that occurs one time a year - the scorching full moon/shahr ramadan.
That is why one has to fast it, not to fast them.
The meaning of the singular -hu- is indicative for this.The -hajj- was an event within the four restricted full moons - within a period of 3 x 29.5 + 3 = 91.5 days (including the duration of the last full moon).
From the Koran we can only really know that it lasted somewhat longer than three days - verse 2203.Regarding the duration of the fast of -shahr ramadan- verses 2184 and 2185 alone are clear and detailed - the full moon lasts three days (ayyaman ma'doodat), that is the duration of the communal fast.
Verses 2196 and 2197 do not explain or add rules to verses 2184 and 2185 - since they are about other subjects.
Verse 2203 confirms that the number -ma'doodat- refers to number three as a standard - compatible with the duration of the full moon, three days.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Salaam bro,
I am sorry if I am not clear in making my point.
Verse 2185 refers only to one special full moon that occurs one time a year - the scorching full moon/shahr ramadan.
That is why one has to fast it, not to fast them.
The meaning of the singular -hu- is indicative for this.That is what I am saying brother that 2185 refers to the only special scorching shahr once in a year.
'FalyasumHU' is either referring to 'a period' or referring to 'a month' , but not a 'full moon'. If shahr means 'full moon' it is NOT working out with 'maadoodaat' and 'falyasumhu', as maadoodaat is referring to 3 days and 'HU' is a singular. We cannot change 'it' to 'this' to fit our understanding brother. Unless and until we study it deeply and keeping our personal understandings aside, we are not gonna find the truth.
From the Koran we can only really know that it lasted somewhat longer than three days - verse 2203.
???
Regarding the duration of the fast of -shahr ramadan- verses 2184 and 2185 alone are clear and detailed - the full moon lasts three days (ayyaman ma'doodat), that is the duration of the communal fast.
Totally agreed.
Verses 2196 and 2197 do not explain or add rules to verses 2184 and 2185 - since they are about other subjects.
Verse 2203 confirms that the number -ma'doodat- refers to number three as a standard - compatible with the duration of the full moon, three days.2197 does. Without taking all the aayaats in relation we are not going to find the truth.
The -hajj- was an event within the four restricted full moons - within a period of 3 x 29.5 + 3 = 91.5 days (including the duration of the last full moon).
Brother, I want to understand what means 3 in addition from the above 3 x 29.5 + 3 what this plus three when you already counted full moons also in 29.5?
May Allah guide us all to His true path. pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother
Verse 2185 refers only to one special full moon that occurs one time a year - the scorching full moon/shahr ramadan.
That is why one has to fast it, not to fast them.
The meaning of the singular -hu- is indicative for this.The -hajj- was an event within the four restricted full moons - within a period of 3 x 29.5 + 3 = 91.5 days (including the duration of the last full moon).
From the Koran we can only really know that it lasted somewhat longer than three days - verse 2203.Regarding the duration of the fast of -shahr ramadan- verses 2184 and 2185 alone are clear and detailed - the full moon lasts three days (ayyaman ma'doodat), that is the duration of the communal fast.
Verses 2196 and 2197 do not explain or add rules to verses 2184 and 2185 - since they are about other subjects.
Verse 2203 confirms that the number -ma'doodat- refers to number three as a standard - compatible with the duration of the full moon, three days.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
Salam, Peace to all,
2203
what about if AYAMIN plural of YAWM means "PERIODS" instead of DAYS?
A deep study of word YAWM would imply a different meaning than just DAY, don't you think?
Peace
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2203
what about if AYAMIN plural of YAWM means "PERIODS" instead of DAYS?
A deep study of word YAWM would imply a different meaning than just DAY, don't you think?
The context of verse 2203 is clearly the -hajj- as that is in verse 2196.
The word -ayamin- seems to indicate a number of days in a literal sense.The word -yawm- can also refer to a very long time.
Verse 325 - a day as 1000 year.
Verse 705 - a day as 50.000 year.
Verse 5038 - the creation in 6 days.Concerning the -hajj- and the fast - a day seems to be a common -human day-.
Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Salaam brother
That is what I am saying brother that 2185 refers to the only special scorching shahr once in a year.
'FalyasumHU' is either referring to 'a period' or referring to 'a month' , but not a 'full moon'. If shahr means 'full moon' it is NOT working out with 'maadoodaat' and 'falyasumhu', as maadoodaat is referring to 3 days and 'HU' is a singular. We cannot change 'it' to 'this' to fit our understanding brother. Unless and until we study it deeply and keeping our personal understandings aside, we are not gonna find the truth.
-falsyasum-hu- in verse 2185 refers to the full moon - singular.
Something that is singular can have several elements - the full moon has three days (with 98% coverage at least, from earth's perspective seen as a full moon).
Those three days are compatible with the word -ma'doodat- as mentioned in verse 2203.Brother, I want to understand what means 3 in addition from the above 3 x 29.5 + 3 what this plus three when you already counted full moons also in 29.5?
One can see the beginning of the first full moon as a marker of the beginning the restricted full moons and the end of the fourth full moon as a marker of the end of the restricted full moons.
Since the duration of the full moon is three days - one could add the relevant three days to 3 x 29.5.
Only when the moon becomes visibly smaller - the fourth day, then the restricted full moons are really over.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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but the time for haj is al ahilat and not the full moon.
to what that may mean ,al ahilat is commonly understood as the crecents.but it might have another meaning we must look into that.
but it surely is not a full moon.
or if it is ,then proof from the Quran is required.
salam. -
Salaam brother,
-falsyasum-hu- in verse 2185 refers to the full moon - singular.
Something that is singular can have several elements - the full moon has three days (with 98% coverage at least, from earth's perspective seen as a full moon).
Those three days are compatible with the word -ma'doodat- as mentioned in verse 2203.I understood that the moon has three days with 98% coverage from earth's perspective that exactly fits with 2203 and I agree with that.
But when you agreed that "falyasumHU" is referring to a SINGLE full moon, it is not possible to refer it to three days. Please read my post # 2281 above for detail. This clarifies that either 'shahr' means 'a period of three days' or 'a longer period' or 'a month' but not just a SINGLE full moon.
One can see the beginning of the first full moon as a marker of the beginning the restricted full moons and the end of the fourth full moon as a marker of the end of the restricted full moons.
Since the duration of the full moon is three days - one could add the relevant three days to 3 x 29.5.
Only when the moon becomes visibly smaller - the fourth day, then the restricted full moons are really over.Why to add those relevant three days to 3 x 29.5 when it is already added in 29.5 days?
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother
I understood that the moon has three days with 98% coverage from earth's perspective that exactly fits with 2203 and I agree with that.
But when you agreed that "falyasumHU" is referring to a SINGLE full moon, it is not possible to refer it to three days. Please read my post # 2281 above for detail. This clarifies that either 'shahr' means 'a period of three days' or 'a longer period' or 'a month' but not just a SINGLE full moon.
Verse 2185 mentions the -shahr ramadan-, translated as the scorching full moon - this is within the count of 12 full moons in a year (936) a special single full moon. The fact that it returns every year does not make the plural-form needed. Since the count until 12 starts over again with the start of the new year.
So I do not see a problem in the usage of the singular form -falyasumhu-, it refers to the one single scorching full moon that occurs during a year.
We can fast the witnessed full moon by fasting the three days (ayaman ma'doodat - 2184, 2203) of it.
Verse 2185 refers to the one special full moon (in singular) that has to be fasted.
Verse 2184 refers to the -ayaman ma'doodat- (in plural) that have to be fasted, the three days that are elements of the special full moon.Why to add those relevant three days to 3 x 29.5 when it is already added in 29.5 days?
In analogy - the travel lasts four tunnels.
Then one has to go through the last tunnel as well to end the travel.A lunar-cycle lasts 29.5 on average.
So if one has to abstain 2 -shahr- (584) then one starts to abstain the first day of the first full moon - after 29 or 30 days one sees the beginning of the second full moon. Then one can better fast until the moment that the moon has become 'smaller' after day three of that full moon - that is an extra three days.
Since one has to abstain the two consecutive full moons, including the days between them.The beginning of the full moon is the marker of the start of the fast - the end of the full moon is the marker of the last day of the fast.
Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Salaam Mohamad
but the time for haj is al ahilat and not the full moon.
to what that may mean ,al ahilat is commonly understood as the crecents.You are right - the Koran informs us in verse 2197 that the -hajj- was within the time-frame of the four restricted full moons.
Verse 2189 states that the crescent moons or the several phases of the moon were to be used for the precise timing of the -hajj-.
From the Koran we can not know for certain that the timing of the -hajj- was related to the full moon - but being one of the phases of the moon, it might have been.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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this is a good assumptoin that it is a full moon.but we need further proof,numbers will not do.we need direct proof.or else a shahr will mean one month.
a woman suckle her child 30 shahr.it is impossible to just sucke him or her on just full moons.
in the quran 30 shahr is hawlayn kamilayn two years.
i think we must give up this idea of full moons.
you dont have proof.
"kutiba 3alaykum il siyam kama kutiba 3ala illazeena min kablikum"
the christains do fast for thirty days or more.something actually like fourty.
yet here we want to prove that it is three days full moon.
i totally disagree.
salam