Do you believe in a personal God?
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wait ... is this the car-loving Munzir Ali? ;D
But would it be fair to call that God? I guess not. So maybe Allah is more suitable.
Well, it doesn't matter to me if you call it God, Spirit, Source, Creator or Allah (i prefer the Love, the Benevolent Creator). And yes, what i said above still applies at least within my own truth. Your truth could be different.
God is probably not intelligent, emotionless, and not an entity. God maybe a substitute for the marvels of the universe.
"Probably" not intelligent, emotionless? Well, that is something to find out, isn't it? There is something to ask to the modern astronomers, about what they have found as far as they can see the universe. Is the universe chaotic? Is the universe purposeless? Is there something more than meets the eye? Yes, it isn't fair to look at a Harry Potter book and claim it's JK Rowling herself, you're so right about that laugh
"An entity" is what our human mind would want to make out of the Creator. Some will even want to put it into a box, or a building, or into a body. Because "an entity" is singular, easy to grasp. What if Allah is beyond our mind (as long as we're trapped in duality)? What if the "one-ness" of Allah is also beyond our mind (as long as we're trapped in duality)? The more esoteric ones wouldn't be so explicit about its whereabouts (or its nature) and instead they admit the irrelevance and/or their limits. The most esoteric ones just know, because they have gone past the veil and whatever they say they will never be able to explain to humans still in the duality like us, so all they can say is "love one another" laugh *. And what is more "truth" than that?
And for the unsatisfiable logic inside our mind--if, just in case, the mind and the senses are ultimately veiled from knowing what is beyond.. Could there be a relevant reason why we have emotions? Remember, emotion is not something that happens in the 'heart', or a little part of your brain. No it's nothing like that at all. Unlike the brain which is working in an 'isolated environment' (say, inside the grey matter, connected to some but not all parts of the body). Emotion is what also happening to your entire body--all the cells that makes up your body is at one with your emotion at the time you are experiencing it. They vibrate as one. And whatever beyond our consciousness that we can't perceive of ourselves may also be at one with the emotion at the time, but ... well how do we know? How can we prove this? But you already know this don't you.
- isn't there an AQ verse re asking about the nature/ruh of Allah?
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wait ... is this the car-loving Munzir Ali? ;D
Well, it doesn't matter to me if you call it God, Spirit, Source, Creator or Allah (i prefer the Love, the Benevolent Creator). And yes, what i said above still applies at least within my own truth. Your truth could be different. )
"Probably" not intelligent, emotionless? Well, that is something to find out, isn't it? There is something to ask to the modern astronomers, about what they have found as far as they can see the universe. Is the universe chaotic? Is the universe purposeless? Is there something more than meets the eye? Yes, it isn't fair to look at a Harry Potter book and claim it's JK Rowling herself, you're so right about that laugh
"An entity" is what our human mind would want to make out of the Creator. Some will even want to put it into a box, or a building, or into a body. Because "an entity" is singular, easy to grasp. What if Allah is beyond our mind (as long as we're trapped in duality)? What if the "one-ness" of Allah is also beyond our mind (as long as we're trapped in duality)? The more esoteric ones wouldn't be so explicit about its whereabouts (or its nature) and instead they admit the irrelevance and/or their limits. The most esoteric ones just know, because they have gone past the veil and whatever they say they will never be able to explain to humans still in the duality like us, so all they can say is "love one another" laugh *. And what is more "truth" than that?
And for the unsatisfiable logic inside our mind--if, just in case, the mind and the senses are ultimately veiled from knowing what is beyond.. Could there be a relevant reason why we have emotions? Remember, emotion is not something that happens in the 'heart', or a little part of your brain. No it's nothing like that at all. Unlike the brain which is working in an 'isolated environment' (say, inside the grey matter, connected to some but not all parts of the body). Emotion is what also happening to your entire body--all the cells that makes up your body is at one with your emotion at the time you are experiencing it. They vibrate as one. And whatever beyond our consciousness that we can't perceive of ourselves may also be at one with the emotion at the time, but ... well how do we know? How can we prove this? But you already know this don't you.
- isn't there an AQ verse re asking about the nature/ruh of Allah?
YEah I still like cars P
If God was intelligent and with emotions that would be a problem wouldn't it? For an intelligent being to create us, it should have to be far more complex to create an organism like a human, let alone the universe. For something to exist as an entity, something else should trigger it to exist. So who created God? ;D
If human logic can't grasp that, then there is no point in science and reason at all. People believe in Personal God because "I believe it because I believe that because I know from somewhere...."
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So who created you?
You can break down certain elements of faith logically.
This becomes a question of, what came first.
My own thinking on this, is, did the object come first, or did lifeforce come first?
If an object was first, there would be no other objects, since the object lacks will to create. And since there actually exists other objects, this can not be so.
Therefore lifeforce must have been first.
Most identify God here.
Lifeforce must have always existed, and be eternal, uncreated.Lifeforce must have created all objects from nothing, as nothing existed then, and this requires attributes such as allmightyness, allknowingness.
Lifeforce is identified as God, or Allah, and Ruh, when speaking about "the soul" of men.
I read an interesting analogy about lifeforce.
And it describes lifeforce, as the tree of life, which we are all branches of.Praised Be God!
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YEah I still like cars
cool so at least we know it's not someone else hacking your account p
If God was intelligent and with emotions that would be a problem wouldn't it?
Oh really? Why is that? And exactly which emotions are you actually talking about?
For an intelligent being to create us, it should have to be far more complex to create an organism like a human, let alone the universe.
It is.
For something to exist as an entity, something else should trigger it to exist. So who created God? ;D
Hmm, did you actually read my post above regarding "an entity"? Because i get a sense that you're not paying attention to that and just wanted to go on proving or disproving something... If this goes on then i will stop responding. )
Another very interesting question is this ask yourself about your own consciousness, or about your soul "am I eternal?" where did I come from? where did I begin? where will I end? It will need more than just reading references written by other humans . It needs you to get right deep into yourself and that's why many people are afraid of. Getting into themselves. Do you dare getting into yourself? Take some quiet time to sit in total darkness, take deep breath constantly... and ask those questions.. Do you dare?
Because i don't care what your age is. Some of the younger people today are more 'difficult' than others (that's a compliment)--because you remember more than we did when we're your age. You already know this don't you? This is why you keep on searching. But if i mistaken you for someone else then forgive me
If human logic can't grasp that, then there is no point in science and reason at all.
Oh there is all the reason! It is science that will eventually 'prove' things about spirituality. And it will be in the quantum science where physics, chemistry and biology work together. But the most balanced people will know this first and use it first. Why? Because they will use it to create peace on earth, that is. With balanced emotions and logic, come intuition. Oh yes, dear, they're all important. And this is where things are getting interesting for everything won't be as linear as they used to be. (See, an "if then" statement is linear, and not always logical anyway.)
People believe in Personal God because "I believe it because I believe that because I know from somewhere...."
That's exactly why i suggest you to put off the books and the webpages you're reading! for it also applies to many other things
People believe in xyz because "I believe it because I believe that because I know from somewhere...."
That's why truth is very personal, isn't it? So instead, I dare you to sit in the dark and ask yourself...
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Well the Koranic Allah is certainly merciful, but he also puts people that don't believe in him in to hell. He is known to cause severe retribution for those who don't believe in his book. But I think that depends on his mood. hehe ;D
Can you really blame Him? Look at all this coooool stuff in the world that He created, including OURSELVES. We wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Him. I know that I would be pissed if I created a whole bitchin' cool Universe and no one appreciated the gift I gave them.
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So who created you?
The BB theory DOES NOT state that we were created out of nothing. All the matter that the entire universe is made of was already present (albeit in a different form) at the Big Bang. Perhaps there are other universes, an infinite number of universes stacked on top of each other. There is no evidence of the existence of an intelligent creator scientifically at all.
We don't know where the matter came from. But there is both matter and anti matter, and they cancel out each other. Which turns into energy. Through energy particles originate. So perhaps energy is God? As it cannot be created nor destroyed? We have no evidence for an intelligent creator and evidence that predates the big bang.
cool so at least we know it's not someone else hacking your account p
Oh really? Why is that? And exactly which emotions are you actually talking about?
Anger, punishing others, cursing, loving, merciful, benevolent. I'm sure I mentioned them in my second post on this thread.
cool so at least we know it's not someone else hacking your account p
Another very interesting question is this ask yourself about your own consciousness, or about your soul "am I eternal?" where did I come from? where did I begin? where will I end? It will need more than just reading references written by other humans P . It needs you to get right deep into yourself and that's why many people are afraid of. Getting into themselves. Do you dare getting into yourself? Take some quiet time to sit in total darkness, take deep breath constantly... and ask those questions.. Do you dare?
There is no evidence for a 'soul' Nobody ever proved it. Even Muhammad (respect be upon him) never did. I am not eternal, I came from my mothers' womb as a result of the interaction between sperm and egg. ;D ;D ;D
I will need more time..yes.. But for now I will remain unbiased and not be biased towards Islam or the Quran. But I will question though. Everybody deserves some answers. I don't know about meditation, I heard that it is good for health, so maybe I should try that.
Oh there is all the reason! It is science that will eventually 'prove' things about spirituality. And it will be in the quantum science where physics, chemistry and biology work together. But the most balanced people will know this first and use it first. Why? Because they will use it to create peace on earth, that is. With balanced emotions and logic, come intuition. Oh yes, dear, they're all important. And this is where things are getting interesting for everything won't be as linear as they used to be. (See, an "if then" statement is linear, and not always logical anyway.)
That's exactly why i suggest you to put off the books and the webpages you're reading! for it also applies to many other things
People believe in xyz because "I believe it because I believe that because I know from somewhere...."
That's why truth is very personal, isn't it? So instead, I dare you to sit in the dark and ask yourself...
Science did not prove anything about spirituality yet. The best tries in my opinion are the law of attraction which belongs in pseudoscience category. So until then I will remain an Agnostic Atheistic to spirituality. Intuition is not science or evidence. Because it cannot be justified or proved.
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Can you really blame Him? Look at all this coooool stuff in the world that He created, including OURSELVES. We wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Him. I know that I would be pissed if I created a whole bitchin' cool Universe and no one appreciated the gift I gave them.
Well, think of the suffering, think of the poverty, think of earthquakes, think of other natural disasters, think of tsunamis. Why does God give us SH't? IF you are pissed, and if you throw the guy who didn't appreciate your work in hell, then you're not perfect and need anger management classes.
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Anger, punishing others, cursing, loving, merciful, benevolent. I'm sure I mentioned them in my second post on this thread.
Ah.. that's back to my first post here then, for not all emotions connect us to that 'something beyond'
There is no evidence for a 'soul' Nobody ever proved it. Even Muhammad (respect be upon him) never did.
Correct. All the prophets couldn't explain it, so they explain ways to get there ourselves. The experience beyond the 3-D (or 4-D if you wish) reality.
I am not eternal, I came from my mothers' womb as a result of the interaction between sperm and egg. ;D ;D ;D
laugh
oh, really? wait until we get out of this world then
I will need more time..yes.. But for now I will remain unbiased and not be biased towards Islam or the Quran. But I will question though. Everybody deserves some answers. I don't know about meditation, I heard that it is good for health, so maybe I should try that. Science did not prove anything about spirituality yet. The best tries in my opinion are the law of attraction which belongs in pseudoscience category. So until then I will remain an Agnostic Atheistic to spirituality. Intuition is not science or evidence. Because it cannot be justified or proved.
Finally, a direct statement ;D And that is cool. Though, does that mean "not even biased to science/logic"? but anyway, this is what free-choice is all about. A journey of your own, and it's honored.
Yes, scientists are quiet aren't they? Takes years, maybe even another generation to finally come up to the public. But you'll be there. Oh you'll be there.
By the way, when i said put off the books and get into yourself, that includes the Quran--Yes, Quran as we know today needs heavy questioning if we are to move on. This is why i found your thread interesting.
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Ah.. that's back to my first post here then, for not all emotions connect us to that 'something beyond' )
Correct. All the prophets couldn't explain it, so they explain ways to get there ourselves. The experience beyond the 3-D (or 4-D if you wish) reality.
laughoh, really? wait until we get out of this world then
I know, I know that you know, so I didn't want to make it more complex. Humor is lacking in free-minds these days XD eat
Finally, a direct statement ;D And that is cool. Though, does that mean "not even biased to science/logic"? but anyway, this is what free-choice is all about. A journey of your own, and it's honored. )
Yes, scientists are quiet aren't they? Takes years, maybe even another generation to finally come up to the public. But you'll be there. Oh you'll be there.
By the way, when i said put off the books and get into yourself, that includes the Quran--Yes, Quran as we know today needs heavy questioning if we are to move on. This is why i found your thread interesting.
When science and logic comes bias is out of the question xD laugh But till it comes, I'd rather remain unbiased. We have not discovered all the answers about our complex universe, but I sure hope we discover more.
Agreed< The Quran needs heavy Questioning. It may not be as divinely inspired as it is described after all. Problems may arise also due to the limitations of language. But tell you what, it's rules, laws, and commandments are not going to last forever anyway.
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Finally, a direct statement ;D And that is cool.
Sorry for that. I've adopted Richard Dawkin's style of proving point using rhetorics. It seems to be more effective. peace
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Well, think of the suffering, think of the poverty, think of earthquakes, think of other natural disasters, think of tsunamis. Why does God give us SH't? IF you are pissed, and if you throw the guy who didn't appreciate your work in hell, then you're not perfect and need anger management classes.
Maybe suffering on Earth IS hell. Oh damn, I just applied a personal interpretation to the Qur'an that makes me a hypocrite. brickwall
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Maybe suffering on Earth IS hell. Oh damn, I just applied a personal interpretation to the Qur'an that makes me a hypocrite. brickwall
The Quran is not straightforward language to us, and to the present generation of people who know Arabic. But during Mohamed's time it was pretty straightforward (to them). Classical Arabic is the language the quran was written in. So I guess personal interpretations won't harm you.
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The Quran is not straightforward language to us, and to the present generation of people who know Arabic. But during Mohamed's time it was pretty straightforward (to them). Classical Arabic is the language the quran was written in. So I guess personal interpretations won't harm you.
Magic Mushrooms may help give a clear understanding.. hypno
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Magic Mushrooms may help give a clear understanding.. hypno
Do you know Old English?
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Do you know Old English?
I don't know English at all. O0
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I don't know English at all. O0
I take that as a form of retreat.
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I take that as a form of retreat. P
giveup
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Salam,
God maybe a substitute for the marvels of the universe.
Why? Most normal believers do not conflate the marvels of the universe with the One whom they believe created the universe.
If God was intelligent and with emotions that would be a problem wouldn't it? For an intelligent being to create us, it should have to be far more complex to create an organism like a human, let alone the universe. For something to exist as an entity, something else should trigger it to exist. So who created God? ;D
Interesting that you believe it is necessary to start putting conditions on an 'enity' that by your own admission must exist outside any reality you could experience. Is it then logical to start using the theory of mechanical determinism on the concept of God?
If human logic can't grasp that, then there is no point in science and reason at all.
I pondered on this a long time and I still can't grasp how you made the leap from the first statement to the next.
People believe in Personal God because "I believe it because I believe that because I know from somewhere...."
The key word here is "believe". As is the case with some atheists I've spoken to, you're using this word in autopilot and plugging it in where it sounds right, without actually paying attention to what it means. People 'believe' in God for various reasons. If you're pointing out that this is not logic, then allow me to congratulate you for pointing out that belief logic. But perhaps you've failed to see that people have good reasons for believing in God, many of which have a foundation from logical reasoning.
There is no evidence of the existence of an intelligent creator scientifically at all.
What exactly would evidence of an intelligent creator look like, scientifically? Because as it stands, anything that breaks scientific axioms is always put into the "haven't figured it out yet" drawer, to be revisited later. And all things that conform to the established scientific facts are deemed 'normal' and thus do not provide evidence for an intelligent creator.
We don't know where the matter came from.
Interesting, because earlier you were attempting to use determinism to falsify the existence of God, who exists in a realm you know nothing of. Yet you seem happy to leave your determinism equation unresolved by stopping at the BB.