al Masjid al Haram and al Masjid al Aqsa

almarh0m

Peace

For those who insisted that "al Masjid al Haram & al Masjid al Aqsa" as physical buldings, will need to prove with evidence from the Qur'an that indeed these supposedly holy structures, one is located in present day Makkah and the other in Jerussalem existed during the life time of the messenger. As I suggested from the lead post of this thread, al Masjid al Haram & al Masjid al Aqsa, are The Inviolable Institution of Obedience or "The Law", which formed the starting point or the launching-pad for any believers who wish to undertake the spiritual and intellectually jorney towards the farhthest place of sujud that is "al Masjid al Aqsa" as mentioned in 17/1.

Perhaps it is worth re-iterating here that "The Law" which all Mu'min follows but not necessarily all Muslims do are the the basic and well known law which are Among others 318 "Allah (Himself) is Witness that there is no Allah save Him. And the angels and the men of learning (too are witness). Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no Allah save Him the Almighty, the Wise". as well as ...............

22 "This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil)"
23 "Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them".

The above verses are the first to inform us that The Qur'an is a "Book of Guidance" as well as the first that mentioned the word salat,
which I took to mean as a commitment and to follow closely ( commitment to follow the law of Allah) which brings us to 1736, where we can only do what we know or believe in things that we can verify . Once we understood the above verses, if we wish to progress to a higher understanding and perhaps attaining wisdom, we could start by implementing Allah's commandments as he made clear for us below;

"Say Come, I will recite unto you that which your Lord hath made a sacred duty for you That ye ascribe no thing as partner unto Him and that ye do good to parents, and that ye slay not your children because of penury - We provide for you and for them - and that ye draw not nigh to lewd things whether open or concealed. And that ye slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred, save in the course of justice. This He hath command you, in order that ye may discern". ( Q.6151).
and

"And approach not the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better, till he reach maturity. Give full measure and full weight, in justice. We task not any soul beyond its scope. And if ye give your word, do justice thereunto, even though it be (against) a kinsman; and fulfil the covenant of Allah. This He commandeth you that haply ye may remember".(Q.6152).

"And (He commandeth you, saying) This is My straight path, so follow it. Follow not other ways, lest ye be parted from His way. This hath He ordained for you, that ye may ward off (evil)". (Q.6153).

Now having read all those verses relevant to "The Inviolable Institution of Obedience or The Law" and Allah's recommendation to follow his commandments, the natural progression for the true believers to achieve the desire of 'Enlightentment' or Self Realisation/Self Transcendence as per 171, as well as what verses from chapter 534-18 described. which are written below

" 4 It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired,
5 Which one of mighty powers hath taught him,
6 One vigorous; and he grew clear to view
7 When he was on the uppermost horizon.
8 Then he drew nigh and came down
9 Till he was (distant) two bows' length or even nearer,
10 And He revealed unto His slave that which He revealed.
11 The heart lied not (in seeing) what it saw.
12 Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he seeth?
13 And verily he saw him yet another time
14 By the lote-tree of the utmost boundary,
15 Nigh unto which is the Garden of Abode.
16 When that which shroudeth did enshroud the lote-tree,
17 The eye turned not aside nor yet was overbold.
18 Verily he saw one of the greater revelations of his Lord.

All these verses cited above confirmed that The Messenger himself went through the normal learning processes from basic knowledge to the fulfilment of his intellectual and spiritual potential, which is by reaching "Al Masjid Al Aqsa" .

Why is the physical structure in Makkah called Al Masjid al Haram, cannot be the one so named in The Qur'an ? Please read this

"

"Qad Nar? Taqalluba Wajhika F As-Sam'i Falanuwalliyannaka Qiblatan Tarh Fawalli Wajhaka Shara Al-Masjidi Al-armi Wa aythu M Kuntum Fawall Wujhakum Sharahu Wa 'Inna Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Layalamna 'Annahu Al-aqqu Min Rabbihim Wa M Allhu Bighfilin Amm Ya`malna". (Q2144).

"We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces (when ye pray) toward it. Lo! Those who have received the Scripture know that (this revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do".

"And even if thou broughtest unto those who have received the Scripture all kinds of portents, they would not follow thy qiblah, nor canst thou be a follower of their qiblah; nor are some of them followers of the qiblah of others. And if thou shouldst follow their desires after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, then surely wert thou of the evil-doers". ( Q.2145).

"Those unto whom We gave the Scripture recognise (this revelation) as they recognise their sons. But lo! a party of them knowingly conceal the truth". (Q2146)

From here why we can see that it is a physical Impossibity to to keep facing Al Masjid Al Haram if indeed the so called holy mosque was the one at Makkah. And "The Focal Point" for all Muslims and Mu'min is The Law of Allah and "Not Some physical" holy buildings somewhere in Saudi arabia. If only people would read and think of just these 2 verses regarding this topic, i.e 2144 and ...

" It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and each and every act of obedience to Allah, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masakin (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat ), and gives the Zakat, and who fulfil their covenant when they make it, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of fighting (during the battles). Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqun (the pious - See V.22). (Q1177).

Wassalamu' ala mani'taba'al hudaa

almarh0m

exodus

Wassalamu' ala mani'taba'al hudaa

Is there an English meaning of this phrase? If it's a greeting, can you explain your basic reason of attitude of using latin alphabet written Arabic phrase as greeting in an English forum.

Peace.

raginggaijin

For those who insisted that "al Masjid al Haram & al Masjid al Aqsa" as physical buldings, will need to prove with evidence from the Qur'an that indeed these supposedly holy structures, one is located in present day Makkah and the other in Jerussalem existed during the life time of the messenger.

Read the Quran.

Nowhere in the Quran does it designate 'maqami' as a fixed position like a rock or a pair of feet indented in the ground, but as a sphere of duty, a place of importance established for service to Allah.
Established place of service to Allah (maqami) Surah 6135, 1414, 1779, 37164
"And there is none of us but has an assigned place," Surah 37164

"Say 'O my people, act according to your station (makanatikum); I am acting. And assuredly you will know who shall possess the Abode Ultimate. Surely the evildoers will not prosper.'" Surah 6135
"and We will surely make you to dwell in the land after them -- that, for him who fears My station (maqamee) and fears My threat.'" Surah 1414
"And as for the night, keep vigil a part of it, as a work of supererogation for thee; it may be that thy Lord will raise thee up to a laudable station (maqaman)." Surah 1779

We are told Bacca, a holy place, contains the dwelling (maqami) of Abraham. Surah 396-97
Abraham (pbuh) asked Allah to bless the city where the House (bayt) was, and to raise up a Messenger from his lineage. Surah 2127-129
According to the Quran, the location of the place of Abraham (pbuh) is a sign for mankind. Surah 396-97
Abraham's wife lived there as well. Surah 1173

The Valley of Baca is spoken of as well in Psalm 841-12
"Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
in whose heart are the highways to Zion.
As they go through the Valley of Baca
they make it a place of springs;
the early rain also covers it with pools.
They go from strength to strength;
each one appears before God in Zion.
LORD God of hosts, hear my prayer;
give ear, O God of Jacob!" Psalm 845-8

Baca (Hebrew 'emeq habakka&#039 Psalm 841-12, Surah 396

I am told this ?Valley of Baca? is not the same spoken of in the Quran. After all, Zion is in Jerusalem, right?
Let us turn to the Bible to see if their teachings refute their claims.

We know the Temple in Jerusalem is not the station of Abraham, as Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Farthest Mosque found in Jerusalem, is named in the Quran. Surah 171

"Subhana allathee asra biAAabdihi laylan mina almasjidi alharami ila almasjidi alaqsa allathee barakna hawlahu linuriyahu min ayatina innahu huwa alssameeAAu albaseeru" Surah 171

Allah gives description of this Temple and its destruction ? twice ? in the Quran. It is the Temple of the Children of Israel. 174-7,1760

"Waqadayna ila banee israeela fee alkitabi latufsidunna fee alardi marratayni walataAAlunna AAuluwwan kabeeran
Faitha jaa waAAdu oolahuma baAAathna AAalaykum AAibadan lana olee basin shadeedin fajasoo khilala alddiyari wakana waAAdan mafAAoolan
Thumma radadna lakumu alkarrata AAalayhim waamdadnakum biamwalin wabaneena wajaAAalnakum akthara nafeeran
In ahsantum ahsantum lianfusikum wain asatum falaha faitha jaa waAAdu alakhirati liyasoooo wujoohakum waliyadkhuloo almasjida kama dakhaloohu awwala marratin waliyutabbiroo ma AAalaw tatbeeran" Surah 174-7

This Temple was created by Solomon (pbuh) and is the qiblah - place of devotion - of the Bani Israel and the Yahudians.

Solomon's qiblah I Kings 822-44

People say there is no indication of Pilgrimage in the Bible, yet the Quran shows Moses (pbuh) designated a specific day to contend with the Magi of Pharoah.

"'Your tryst shall be upon the Day of the Adornment (yawmu alzzeenati). Let the people be mustered at the high noon.'" Surah 2059

If it is in the Quran, which verifies the previous Books, we will find some indication of this in the previous Books.

Moses (pbuh) asked Pharaoh to take his people 3 days into the wilderness to give thanks to Allah, PRIOR to their leaving Egypt, before given their rites of devotion Hag Sukkot, Hag ha-Mazzot, and Hag Shabu'ot?

Hajj/Hag Ha-Sukkot Exo. 109, Exo. 51, Exo. 318, Exo. 134, Exo. 2314-17, Exo 3422-24, Deut 1613-16, Neh. 89-12, Neh. 21, Lev. 239-21, Est. 89

"And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness." Exo. 51
"And Moses said, We will go with our young and with our old, with our sons and with our daughters, with our flocks and with our herds will we go; for we must hold a feast unto the LORD." Exo. 109

The Hebrews designated a festival by the word "ag" (the Arabic "ajj&quot, originally implying a choragic rhythmic procession around the shrine of an idol or an altar (see Wellhausen, "Skizzen und Vorarbeiten," 3106); but later, without specific reference to this usage, connoting a day or season of joy ("ag" and "simah" are correlatives; comp. Amos 710; Deut.1614). "Hag" denotes more specifically the three agricultural festivals (Ex. 2314), or the Festival of Unleavened Bread and Tabernacles (Lev. 236, Lev. 2334), or the latter only (Judges 2119; Eze. 1125; II Chron. 53; II Chr. 78-9). (Jewish Encyclopedia)

?You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. As I commanded you, you shall eat unleavened bread for seven days at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. None shall appear before me empty-handed.? Exo. 2315
??e-a hammaw ti?mr ?i?a ym?m t?al maw ka??er i??i lmw? e? h?? k?-w y? mimmiryim wl?-yr?? fnay r?qm? Exo 2315
?You shall keep the Feast of Harvest, of the first fruits of your labor, of what you sow in the field. You shall keep the Feast of Ingathering at the end of the year, when you gather in from the field the fruit of your labor.? Exo. 2316
?wa haqq?r bik?r? ma?ey ??er tizra? baeh wa h?sif b? ha??n? b?sp ?e-ma?ey min-haeh? Exo. 2316
?You shall observe the Feast of Weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year?s end.? Exo. 3422
?wa ?u? ta?eh l bik?r? q?r i?m wa h?s?f tq?fa ha??n?? Exo. 3422

Moses and Aaron (pbut) were told to turn their homes in Egypt into places of devotion (qiblatan) Surah 1087
Prior to their acts revealed unto them through Moses and Aaron (pbut), they performed a different act of devotion.
Allah is clear He gave each nation acts of devotion (shaAAa-iri) Surah 52, 2232, 2234, 2236, 2267
Yahudians follow their rites given by Allah through Moses and Aaron (pbut).

We are Muslims. We perform the rites of Allah (shaAAa-iri Allahi) as He described in the Quran.
Hajj Surah 2158, 2189, 2196-197, 397, 51-2, 595-97, 91-5, 919, 2225-30. 2267, 6310, 7320
Pilgrimage a duty to those able to make their way there Surah 397
What to do if you cannot make Hajj Surah 2196-197
Hajj is annual Surah 2196-197
Days/Months well known Surah 2197, 936, 2228
Holy months are consecutive Surah 91-5, 936-37
Months of pilgrimage Surah 1062
Sacred month of Hajj Surah 2194, 2217, 52, 597, 91-5
Day of Greater Pilgrimage (beginning of 4 months) Surah 93
Fasting if you hunt during Hajj Surah 595
The Kaaba is the place of sacrifice Surah 595-97, 2233
Sacrifice (nusukin) Surah 2196, 6162, 2234

The Kaaba, the House, is named in the Quran. Surah 595-97
Allah is clear the Kaaba is the place of sacrifice/donation Surah 595-97, 2233

We know the Sacred Mosque was around during Muhammad's time because it is written in the Quran "O you who believe, the idolators are surely unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs." Surah 928

The qiblah of Muslims who follow the Quran is Masjid Al-Haram.
We are to face Masjid Al-Haram, the Sacred Mosque. Surah 2144,149,150. Allah tells us this three (3) times.
Allah tells us three (3) times "This is truth from thy Lord, so be thou not of the doubters." Surah 2144,147,149

Masjid Al-Haram surrounds the Kaaba.

"they give food, for the love of Him, to the needy, the orphan, the captive" Surah 768

There is reference to the House of Allah in the Bible, even though the polytheists are adverse to admitting it..
Isaiah 11-18 speaks of the Yahudians, the destruction of their lands and homes, and their festivals while in exile.

"Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city." Isa. 17

This was during the exile of the Yahudians after the first destruction of the Temple, and prior to their liberation by Cyrus the Persian.

"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them." Isa. 111-14

With the Temple destroyed, where would the Bani Israel go for their ?solemn meeting?
What courts of Allah were ?trampled? in new moon feasts when the Temple was destroyed by the armies of Nebuchadnezzar?

Cyrus the Persian is named Messiah in Isaiah 451 ? liberator of the Yahud during their captivity in Babylon. He decreed the reconstruction of the Temple. His successor Darius I, known as Dhul-Qarnain in the Quran, is credited with creation of the wall of Derbent in the Caucasus Mountains and is written in the Torah/Tanakh to have completed construction of the Temple in Jerusalem.

May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.

Peace.

exodus

Read the Quran.

Good advice, but it doesn't work like that. Understanding (which depends on many many criterias) is the keyword here if you are talking about The Great Reading.

Peace.

hafeez_kazi

Peace all

THE SECOND QIBLAH MASJID AL HARAM IS TO BE FOLLOWED

Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the signs (together) they would not FOLLOW thy Qiblah (MASJID AL HARAM); nor art thou to be a FOLLOWER of their Qiblah; nor indeed will they FOLLOW each other's Qiblah. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee wert to follow their (vain) desires then wert thou indeed (clearly) in the wrong. 2145

Clear instructions are from Allah to FOLLOW the QIBLAH (MASJID AL HARAM) and not PRAYING DIRECTIONS

How did the prophet and his followers FOLLOW PHYSICAL MOSQUE or KAABA or the OPEN PLACE around KAABA?

Logically, you and I cannot FOLLOW a PHYSICAL MOSQUE or KAABA or an OPEN PLACE around KAABA

Therefore Al Masjid Al Haram (THE INVIOLABEL PLACE OF SUBMISSION) is a STRUCTURE, from where the resolutions on religion are passed in consultation with the members of the council and which are to be followed by its members. It s like the United Nation Security Council (world), the White House (U.S.A.), the Downing Street (Brirtain) and 10 Janpath Marg (India)

THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK KNOW THE QIBLAH (MASJID AL HARAM)

We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens; now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; wherever ye are turn your faces in that direction. The people of the book know well that that it is the truth from their Lord nor is Allah unmindful of what they do. 2144

Those unto whom We have vouchsafed the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know. 2146

How did the people of the Book know that the MASJID AL HARAM is the truth from their Lord? They knew only through their Books as we know through Quran.

But, if the MASJID AL HARAM was mentioned in their Books, then why the followers of prophet Moses and Jesus neglected it? Why they did not pray facing Masjid Al Haram? Surely the followers of prophet Moses and Jesus during their prophet?s lifetime, followed the Masjid Al Haram but the later followers followed their Monks and Priest.

They have taken their priests and their monks for their Lords besides God, and also the Masih son of Maryam; whereas they Were commanded not but to worship the One God no god is there but he. Hallowed be He from that which they associate'. 931

Remember there is no WORD SALAAT in the verse and neither is there any COMMAND to PRAY facing the Masjid Al Haram and those who believe in this are actually following CONJECTURES.

How do those People of the Book who live outside the Arabian country know or recognise the today?s MASJID AL HARAM when they have not seen any of such thing in their whole life?

And most of them FOLLOW nothing but CONJECTURE. Certainly, CONJECTURE can be of no avail against the TRUTH. Surely, Allah is All-Aware of what they do. 1036

THE QIBLAH OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK

Even if thou were to bring to the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK all the SIGNS (together) they would not FOLLOW thy Qiblah; nor art thou going to follow their Qiblah; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qiblah. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee wert to follow their (vain) DESIRES then wert thou indeed (clearly) in the wrong. 2145

They take their PRIESTS and their MONKS as their LORDS besides Allah and also the CHRIST the son of Mary; Yet they were COMMANDED to WORSHIP but ONE Allah there is no god but He. Praise and glory to him (far is He) from having the partners they associate (with him). 931

Their Qiblah (focus of attention) is their PRIESTS and MONKS, whom they FOLLOW and who are worshipped as their LORD whereas they were commanded worship the LORD and to FOLLOW THE MASJID AL HARAM

THE DESIRES OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK

They say "BECOME JEWS OR CHRISTIANS if ye would be guided (to salvation)." Say thou "Nay! (I would rather) the religion of Abraham the true and he joined not gods with Allah." 2135

Their desire of the people of the Book is that the followers of the prophet should become JEWS or CHRISTIANS so that they may be guided.

THE CORRUPTION

And FROM wheresoever you (PROPHET) GO FORTH (KHARAJTA) turn thy face towards the MASJID AL HARAAM that is indeed the truth from thy Lord. And Allah is not unmindful of what ye do. 2149

So FROM wheresoever you (PROPHET) GO FORTH (KHARAJ) turn thy face towards the MASJID AL HARAAM; and wheresoever you (all) are turn your faces towards it lest there be no plea against you among the people except those of them that are wrong-doers; so fear them not but fear Me; and that I may complete My favors on you and ye may (consent to) be guided. 2150

There is no COMMAND to pray FACING the Masjid Al Haram

Has any Muslim ever pondered over the two separate commands?

The command to the prophet FROM WHERESOEVER you GO FORTH turn your face towards the Masjid Al Haram

The command to the believers WHERESOEVER YOU ARE, then turn your faces towards the Masjid Al Haram

SO FROM WHERESOEVER (KHARAJTA) YOU (PROPHET) go forth (into battle) / to attack / to rise / fight (against) / to rebel, to revolt (against) / exit / emerge / come out / depart / leave / retire / exude / effuse / project / stick out / dismount / alight / disembark / get out / step out / emanate / issue / arise / originate / draw away / segregate / separate / secede / dissent / disagree / depart / expel / dislodge / evict / drive / exile THEN TURN YOUR FACE TOWARDS THE MASJID AL HARAM.

The most appropriate meaning of KHARAJ is go forth (into battle) / to attack / to fight (against)

And if they had intended to (KHUROJ) GO FORTH, certainly, they would have made some preparation for it, but Allah was averse to their being sent forth, so He made them lag behind, and it was said (to them), "Sit you among those who sit (at home)." Had they (KHARAJO) GONE FORTH with you, they would have added to you nothing except disorder, and they would have hurried about in your midst (spreading corruption) and sowing sedition among you, and there are some among you who would have listened to them. And Allah is the All-Knower of the Zalimun 946/47

Had it been a near gain (booty in front of them) and an easy journey, they would have followed you, but the distance (Tabuk expedition) was long for them, and they would swear by Allah, "If we only could, we would certainly have (KHARAJ) COME FORTH with you." They destroy their ownselves, and Allah knows that they are liars. 942

Lest there be no (HUJJAH) OBJECTIONS / PROTESTS against you among the people except those of them that are wrong-doers; so fear them not but fear Me?. 2150

Read the sentence carefully.

If the Qiblah (prayer direction) is changed then there will be No OBJECTIONS/ PROTESTS among the people EXCEPT the wrong doers against the prophet and if the Qiblah (prayer direction) is NOT changed then there will be OBJECTIONS / PROTESTS among all the people against the prophet

Why there should be OBJECTIONS / PROTESTS if the Qiblah (prayer direction) is changed?

If today, the Muslims, change their Qiblah (prayer direction) will there be protests / objections among the people?

Certainly NO.

The Christian Missionaries are facing trouble in India because their QIBLAH (focus of attention) is to convert the poor Hindus to Christians. But if they focus their (QIBLAH) attention on preaching the Christianity only, then there will No arguments against them among the people of India, except the wrong doers.

The prophet?s first Qiblah (Submission), inviting the GENTILES and the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK to SUBMISSION was objectionable to the polytheists of Medina, and therefore Allah changed the prophet?s Qiblah to the common Qiblah of MANKIND, that is MASJID AL HARAM.

So if they dispute with thee, say "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are GENTILES "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah.s sight are (all) His servants. 320

Inna allatheena kafaroo wayasuddoona AAan sabeeli Allahi wa AL MASJID AL HARAAM allathee jaAAalnahu li annasi sawaan alAAakifu feehi waalbadi waman yurid feehi biilhadin bithulmin nuthiqhu min AAathabin aleemin 2225

As to those who have rejected ((Allah)), and would keep back (men) from the Way of Allah, and from the INVIOLABLE PLACE OF SUBMISSION, which We have APPOINTED FOR MANKIND equal is the dweller there and the visitor from the country - and any whose purpose therein is profanity or wrong-doing - them will We cause to taste of a most Grievous Penalty.

MASJID AL HARAM IS APPOINTED FOR MANKIND AND NOT ONLY TO BELIEVERS.

But what plea have they that Allah should not punish them, when they keep out (men) from the sacred Mosque - and THEY ARE NOT ITS GUARDIANS? No men can be its GUARDIANS EXCEPT THE RIGHTEOUS; but most of them do not understand. 834

THE UNBELIEVERS WERE THE WALI OF MASJID AL HARAAM
WHAT HAS BEEN THE UNBELEIVERS BUSINESS WITH THE MASJID AL HARAAM?
WHY SHOULD BE THE WALI OF MASJID AL HARAAM, A MUTTAQI?

Why Allah is commanding that the believers should not be afraid of the wrong doers and should fear HIM. Did the wrong doers threaten the believers that if they changed the Qiblah (prayer direction) to Masjid Al Haram, then they will be attacked or killed? What was the loss or fear or the danger to the wrong doers?

PONDER OVER ALL THE QUESTIONS AND REFRESH YOUR MIND

'INNA 'ALLADHENA KAFARO WA- YAS.UDDON cAN SABEL 'ALLAAH WA- AL- MASJID AL- H.ARAAM 'ALLADHE JAcALNAA -HU LI- AN- NAAS SAWAA' AL- cAAKIF FE -HI WA- AL- BAADI WA- MAN YURID FE -HI BI- ILH.AAD BI- Z.ULM NUDHIQ -HU MIN cADHAAB 'ALEM 2225

'INNA 'AWWAL BAYT WUD.IcA LI- AN- NAAS LA- 'ALLADHE BI- BAKKAH MUBAARAK (AN) WA- HUDA (N) LI- AL- cAALAMEN 396

WA- 'IDH JAcALNAA AL- BAYT MATHAABAH LI- AN- NAAS WA- 'AMN(AN) WA- ITTAKHIDHO MIN MAQAAM 'IBRAAHEM MUS.ALLA(N) WA- cAHIDNAA 'ILAA 'IBRAAHEM WA- 'ISMAAcEL 'AN T.AHHIRAA BAYT -E LI- AT.- T.AA'IFEN WA- AL- cAAKIFEN WA- AR- RUKKAc AS- SUJOD 2125

JAcALA 'ALLAAH AL- KAcBAH AL- BAYT AL- H.ARAAM QIYAAM(AN) LI- AN- NAAS WA- ASH- SHAHR AL- H.ARAAM WA- AL- HADY WA- AL- QALAA'ID DHAALIKA LI- TAcLAMO 'ANNA 'ALLAAH YAcLAM MAA FE AS- SAMAAWAAT WA- MAA FE AL- 'ARD. WA- 'ANNA 'ALLAAH BI- KULL SHAY' cALEM 597

DO YOU FIND THE WORD ?MUSLIMS OR BELIEVERS? IN THE ABOVE VERSES?

ALL YOU WILL FIND IS ?LI AN NAAS? (MANKIND)

A CHALLENGE TO ALL THE TRADITIONAL MUSLIMS, TO PROVE THAT THE MASJID AL HARAAM OR KAABA IS APPOINTED AS A PRAYING DIRECTION

ALLAH KNOWS BEST

raginggaijin

Good advice, but it doesn't work like that. Understanding (which depends on many many criterias) is the keyword here if you are talking about The Great Reading.

Peace.

Ask Allah to explain it.

It's that easy. Surah 245

Peace.

raginggaijin

Peace be unto you,

How did the people of the Book know that the MASJID AL HARAM is the truth from their Lord? They knew only through their Books as we know through Quran.

But, if the MASJID AL HARAM was mentioned in their Books, then why the followers of prophet Moses and Jesus neglected it?

Where is your proof they neglected it?
There is proof in the previous Books of the qiblah of the Bani Israel and acts of devotion performed outside of Jerusalem.

Prior to Moses and Aaron (pbut) leaving Egypt, they are reported to have asked Pharaoh to take their people out into the wilderness to hold a feast for Allah.

"And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness." Exo. 51
"And Moses said, We will go with our young and with our old, with our sons and with our daughters, with our flocks and with our herds will we go; for we must hold a feast unto the LORD." Exo. 109

This is before they were given their rites of devotion and prior to the building of Masjid Al-Aqsa.

Why they did not pray facing Masjid Al Haram?

Moses and Isa (pbut) were sent for the Bani Israel, not for the people of Muhammad (pbuh). Surah 349, 352, 7158, 578, 616
Moses and Aaron were told to turn their homes in Egypt into places of devotion (qiblatan) Surah 1087

The Yahudians and the Nazarenes are all sects among the Bani Israel. Allah is clear He gave each nation acts of devotion (shaAAa-iri) Surah 52, 2232, 2234, 2236, 2267
Yahudians and Nazarenes follow their rites given by Allah through Moses and Aaron (pbut).

The Byzantine Roman-Catholic Christians were the polytheistic sect of Gentiles that deviated after adopting their teachings. The primogenitors of the Romans were the pagan Sabines. Their polytheist practices were adopted by the Romans and Greeks who became the Byzantine Empire. The same Byzantine Empire that contained the Nabateans of Petra and Midian.

"Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry (hadoo), and the Christians (waalnnasara), and those Sabians (waalssabi-eena), whoso believes in Allah and the Last Day, and works righteousness -- their wage awaits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them; neither shall they sorrow." Surah 262

Proof Midian
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4RHRu3VWJg

Proof Birds
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyEpjv2nAho

Proof Jinn
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwjC7dEMkDU

The Quran is first Book sent for Jinn/non-Nasi/Gentiles Surah 6156-157, 3440-44, 4319-21

?We have not given them any Books to study, nor have We sent them before thee any warner.? Surah 3444

Muhammad (pbuh) did not know the Book nor the faith prior to revelation. There is no way he would have a qiblah prior to Masjid Al-Haram as he was not of the Bani Israel. Allah does not change His Sunnah. If He gave a qiblah - a place of devotion - to one Prophet (pbut), they would all have one. Do you disagree?

Solomon's qiblah I Kings 822-44
Daniel faced Jerusalem during prayer Dan. 610

Muhammad did not know what was the Book, so he could not know the teachings of the Torah or Gospel Surah 4252, 2151, 123, 7157-158, 2948, 622, 16103, 4113

"Even so We have revealed to thee a Spirit of Our bidding. Thou knewest not what the Book was, nor belief; but We made it a light, whereby We guide whom We will of Our servants. And thou, surely thou shalt guide unto a straight path --" Surah 4252

"as also We have sent among you, of yourselves, a Messenger, to recite Our signs to you and to purify you, and to teach you the Book and the Wisdom, and to teach you that you knew not." Surah 2151

Ummi/Illiterate means ?No Knowledge of the Book?. Surah 278 (Jews spoken of here), 320, 375, 7157-158, 622

Surely the followers of prophet Moses and Jesus during their prophet?s lifetime, followed the Masjid Al Haram but the later followers followed their Monks and Priest.

No.
The followers of Moses and Aaron (pbut) followed the qiblah they were given prior to their exodus and 40 year wandering (Surah 526).
The followers of Isa (pbuh) upheld the Torah and the Injeel and is reported to have set his face towards Jerusalem. Luke 951-56

"And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
And sent messengers before his face and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village." Luke 951-56

Why didn't the Samaritans receive the Messiah (pbuh), because 'his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem'?

Solomon (pbuh) is reported in the Bible that the Temple he built is the qiblah of the tribes of Israel. I Kings 822-44
There is only one Temple destroyed twice for the disobedience of the Bani Isreal Masjid Al-Aqsa. Surah 174-7,1760, 9107
There is mention made of the House whose courts are trampled in Isaiah 11-18, when the Temple of the Bani Israel was destroyed the first time by the armies of Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar. This is prior to the rebuilding by Cyrus the Persian and Darius I/Dhul-Qarnain (pbuh).

"...Even heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house that I have built! Regard your servant's prayer and his plea, O Lord my God, heeding the cry and the prayer that your servant prays to you today... Hear the plea of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place... When heaven is shut up and there is no rain because they have sinned against you, and then they pray towards this place, confess your name, and turn from their sin..." I Kings 822-44

"They have taken their priests and their monks for their Lords besides God, and also the Masih son of Maryam; whereas they Were commanded not but to worship the One God no god is there but he. Hallowed be He from that which they associate'. 931

Remember there is no WORD SALAAT in the verse and neither is there any COMMAND to PRAY facing the Masjid Al Haram and those who believe in this are actually following CONJECTURES."

I am inclined to agree until Surah 729
?Say 'My Lord has commanded justice. Set your faces (wujoohakum) in every place of worship (masjidin) and call on Him (waodAAoohu), making your religion (alddeena) sincerely His. As He originated you so you will return;? Surah 729

You know what (dua) is. )

"From whatsoever place thou issuest, turn thy face towards the Holy Mosque; it is the truth from thy Lord. God is not heedless of the things you do." Surah 2149

"From whatsoever place thou issuest, turn thy face (wajhaka) towards the Holy Mosque; and wherever you may be, turn your faces towards it, that the people may not have any argument against you, excepting the evildoers of them; and fear you them not, but fear you Me; and that I may perfect My blessing upon you, and that haply so you may be guided;" Surah 2150

"Thus We appointed you a midmost nation that you might be witnesses to the people, and that the Messenger might be a witness to you; and We did not appoint the direction thou wast facing, except that We might know who followed the Messenger from him who turned on his heels -- though it were a grave thing save for those whom God has guided; but God would never leave your faith to waste - truly, God is All-gentle with the people, All-compassionate." Surah 2143

How do those People of the Book who live outside the Arabian country know or recognise the today?s MASJID AL HARAM when they have not seen any of such thing in their whole life?

I can answer that.
As a person who was once a Trinitarian Christian, it was in studying the Quran and the descriptions therein that taught me what Masjid Al-Haram is and how to recognize it. After all, the Islamists believe the Kaaba is their qiblah, when it is actually the building that surrounds the Kaaba.

And most of them FOLLOW nothing but CONJECTURE. Certainly, CONJECTURE can be of no avail against the TRUTH. Surely, Allah is All-Aware of what they do. 1036

THE QIBLAH OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK

Even if thou were to bring to the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK all the SIGNS (together) they would not FOLLOW thy Qiblah; nor art thou going to follow their Qiblah; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qiblah. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee wert to follow their (vain) DESIRES then wert thou indeed (clearly) in the wrong. 2145

They take their PRIESTS and their MONKS as their LORDS besides Allah and also the CHRIST the son of Mary; Yet they were COMMANDED to WORSHIP but ONE Allah there is no god but He. Praise and glory to him (far is He) from having the partners they associate (with him). 931

Their Qiblah (focus of attention) is their PRIESTS and MONKS, whom they FOLLOW and who are worshipped as their LORD whereas they were commanded worship the LORD and to FOLLOW THE MASJID AL HARAM

I agree. Which is why they do not even follow their own qiblah - found within their collection of Books they call the Bible, which Allah calls the Torah and Injeel - or the qiblah given unto all nations; Allah abrogated the messages of previous Books, bringing one better than before. Masjid Al-Aqsa is destroyed, the precincts are blessed, but the Dome of the Rock stands atop it. We are commanded never to enter it.

THE DESIRES OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK

They say "BECOME JEWS OR CHRISTIANS if ye would be guided (to salvation)." Say thou "Nay! (I would rather) the religion of Abraham the true and he joined not gods with Allah." 2135

Their desire of the people of the Book is that the followers of the prophet should become JEWS or CHRISTIANS so that they may be guided.

And what do the Jews tell you to do?
Face Masjid Al-Aqsa, as they do.

What do the Christians tell you to do?
Not face anything.

Proof is from their own words and teachings
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9pC0lZ856M

THE CORRUPTION

And FROM wheresoever you (PROPHET) GO FORTH (KHARAJTA) turn thy face towards the MASJID AL HARAAM that is indeed the truth from thy Lord. And Allah is not unmindful of what ye do. 2149

So FROM wheresoever you (PROPHET) GO FORTH (KHARAJ) turn thy face towards the MASJID AL HARAAM; and wheresoever you (all) are turn your faces towards it lest there be no plea against you among the people except those of them that are wrong-doers; so fear them not but fear Me; and that I may complete My favors on you and ye may (consent to) be guided. 2150

There is no COMMAND to pray FACING the Masjid Al Haram

Has any Muslim ever pondered over the two separate commands?

I have. Please see above. I hope to hear more from you on this. )

The command to the prophet FROM WHERESOEVER you GO FORTH turn your face towards the Masjid Al Haram

The command to the believers WHERESOEVER YOU ARE, then turn your faces towards the Masjid Al Haram

SO FROM WHERESOEVER (KHARAJTA) YOU (PROPHET) go forth (into battle) / to attack / to rise / fight (against) / to rebel, to revolt (against) / exit / emerge / come out / depart / leave / retire / exude / effuse / project / stick out / dismount / alight / disembark / get out / step out / emanate / issue / arise / originate / draw away / segregate / separate / secede / dissent / disagree / depart / expel / dislodge / evict / drive / exile THEN TURN YOUR FACE TOWARDS THE MASJID AL HARAM.

The most appropriate meaning of KHARAJ is go forth (into battle) / to attack / to fight (against)

You are adding a lot of words in (parenthesis) that are not in the Arabic revelation. (

There is nothing concerning battling, as KHARAJ is for going forth or expelling from. Allah uses the Quran to explain itself.
Examples

4100 yakhruj leaves
522 yakhruj they leave
52214 yakhruj they leave
5373 yakhruj they come out
56110 kharaj went out
71310 fa-ukh'ruj So get out
7182 ukh'ruj Get out
7583 yakhruju comes forth
75810 yakhruju come forth
8474 kharaj came forth

"Every man has his direction (wij'hatun) to which he turns; so be you forward in good works (l-khayrti). Wherever you may be, God will bring you all together; surely God is powerful over everything." Surah 2148

And if they had intended to (KHUROJ) GO FORTH, certainly, they would have made some preparation for it, but Allah was averse to their being sent forth, so He made them lag behind, and it was said (to them), "Sit you among those who sit (at home)." Had they (KHARAJO) GONE FORTH with you, they would have added to you nothing except disorder, and they would have hurried about in your midst (spreading corruption) and sowing sedition among you, and there are some among you who would have listened to them. And Allah is the All-Knower of the Zalimun 946/47

Had it been a near gain (booty in front of them) and an easy journey, they would have followed you, but the distance (Tabuk expedition) was long for them, and they would swear by Allah, "If we only could, we would certainly have (KHARAJ) COME FORTH with you." They destroy their ownselves, and Allah knows that they are liars. 942

Lest there be no (HUJJAH) OBJECTIONS / PROTESTS against you among the people except those of them that are wrong-doers; so fear them not but fear Me?. 2150

Read the sentence carefully.

And as pointed out, there are numerous instances where (KHARAJ) means 'go forth' and not in a state of battle. I gave a hint of the usages found in the Quran. Would you like more?

If the Qiblah (prayer direction) is changed

How can there be a change when Muhammad (pbuh) was sent to a people who knew not anything before revelation? To uphold there was a 'change' in qiblah is upholding teachings of the ancients. No where in the Quran does it state the qiblah was changed. It only states the Prophet and those who followed him were given a qiblah. Period.
It is the fools who will say 'What has turned them from their qiblah which they had?' Surah 2142
I have read much of your writings here on free-minds, and you do not strike me as a fool nor one who upholds teachings of the ancients.

then there will be No OBJECTIONS/ PROTESTS among the people EXCEPT the wrong doers against the prophet and if the Qiblah (prayer direction) is NOT changed then there will be OBJECTIONS / PROTESTS among all the people against the prophet

Those of the Jews and Nazarene who denied the faith would uphold their qiblah - Jerusalem. The Nazarene sect upheld the Torah.
Those of the Sabines would uphold their qiblah - their spiritual leaders.

Why there should be OBJECTIONS / PROTESTS if the Qiblah (prayer direction) is changed?

Where is your proof it changed? Allah does not change His Sunnah. Please provide proof of the qiblah of Muhammad (pbuh) prior to Masjid Al-Haram as written in the Quran.
If you cannot, then why do you say it was changed when he did not know the Book nor faith prior to revelation, and he only followed what Allah revealed?

If today, the Muslims, change their Qiblah (prayer direction) will there be protests / objections among the people?

Certainly NO.

Actually, there is.
Look no further than the Bahai faith, who uphold the 'new' qiblah which is in Israel.

Qiblah of the Bahai

"He would advise you to only use the short midday Obligatory Prayer. This has no genuflections and only requires that when saying it the believer turn his face towards Akka where Bah?'u'll?h is buried. This is a physical symbol of an inner reality, just as the plant stretches out to the sunlight-- from which it receives life and growth--so we turn our hearts to the Manifestation of God, Bah?'u'll?h, when we pray; and we turn our faces, during this short prayer, to where His dust lies on this earth as a symbol of the inner act.

"Bah?'u'll?h has reduced all ritual and form to an absolute minimum in His Faith. The few forms that there are--like those associated with the two longer obligatory daily prayers, are only symbols of the inner attitude. There is a wisdom in them, and a great blessing but we cannot force ourselves to understand or feel these things; that is why He gave us also the very short and simple prayer, for those who did not feel the desire to perform the acts associated with the other two."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, June 24, 1949 Spiritual Foundations Prayer, Meditation, and the Devotional Attitude, op. cit., in Lights of Guidance, no. 1523)

Fatwas against the Bahai
http//www.bahaiawareness.com/fatwas_all.html

Why did the Bahai change their qiblah?
http//answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080620011405AAkQAmc

The Christian Missionaries are facing trouble in India because their QIBLAH (focus of attention) is to convert the poor Hindus to Christians. But if they focus their (QIBLAH) attention on preaching the Christianity only, then there will No arguments against them among the people of India, except the wrong doers.

The prophet?s first Qiblah (Submission), inviting the GENTILES and the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK to SUBMISSION was objectionable to the polytheists of Medina, and therefore Allah changed the prophet?s Qiblah to the common Qiblah of MANKIND, that is MASJID AL HARAM.

Can you show me proof where Allah 'changed' the qiblah from one to another? If there was a change, then there would be proof in the Quran of Allah commanding the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the believers to face a different qiblah.

The Prophet did not know the Book nor the faith, and he ONLY followed what Allah revealed. Surah 650, 7203-204, 1015, 469

If ANYONE says the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) faced Jerusalem, they are lying. From the Prophet's own words he states

"Say 'I do not say to you, "I possess the treasuries of God"; I know not the Unseen. And I say not to you, "I am an angel"; I only follow what is revealed to me. Say 'Are the blind and the seeing man equal? Will you not reflect?'" Surah 650

"And when thou bringest them not a sign, they say, 'Why hast thou not chosen one?' Say 'I follow only what is revealed to me from my Lord; this is clear testimony from your Lord, guidance, and mercy for a people of believers.'" Surah 7203

Allah does not change, nor does He change His way (sunnati Allahi) Surah 624, 6115, 1064, 1777, 1827, 3030, 3362, 4815, 4823, 673-4

So if they dispute with thee, say "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are GENTILES "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah.s sight are (all) His servants. 320

Inna allatheena kafaroo wayasuddoona AAan sabeeli Allahi wa AL MASJID AL HARAAM allathee jaAAalnahu li annasi sawaan alAAakifu feehi waalbadi waman yurid feehi biilhadin bithulmin nuthiqhu min AAathabin aleemin 2225

As to those who have rejected ((Allah)), and would keep back (men) from the Way of Allah, and from the INVIOLABLE PLACE OF SUBMISSION, which We have APPOINTED FOR MANKIND equal is the dweller there and the visitor from the country - and any whose purpose therein is profanity or wrong-doing - them will We cause to taste of a most Grievous Penalty.

MASJID AL HARAM IS APPOINTED FOR MANKIND AND NOT ONLY TO BELIEVERS.

Now you run into a problem

"O believers, the polytheists (l-mush'rikna) are indeed unclean (najasun); so let them not come near the Sacred Mosque (almasjida alharama) after (bada) this year (mihim) of theirs. If you fear poverty, Allah shall surely enrich you of His bounty, if He will; Allah is All-knowing; All-wise." Surah 928

If this was for all mankind - believer and disbeliever alike - then the idolators would still be allowed.
Masjid Al-Haram is for all tribes of human beings who are believers, Hebrew (Nasi) and Gentile (Jinn) alike.

"Qul aAAoothu birabbi alnnasi
Ilahi alnnasi
Maliki alnnasi
Min sharri alwaswasi alkhannasi
Allathee yuwaswisu fee sudoori alnnasi
Mina aljinnati waalnnasi" Surah 1141-6

But what plea have they that Allah should not punish them, when they keep out (men) from the sacred Mosque - and THEY ARE NOT ITS GUARDIANS? No men can be its GUARDIANS EXCEPT THE RIGHTEOUS; but most of them do not understand. 834

THE UNBELIEVERS WERE THE WALI OF MASJID AL HARAAM
WHAT HAS BEEN THE UNBELEIVERS BUSINESS WITH THE MASJID AL HARAAM?
WHY SHOULD BE THE WALI OF MASJID AL HARAAM, A MUTTAQI?

Why Allah is commanding that the believers should not be afraid of the wrong doers and should fear HIM. Did the wrong doers threaten the believers that if they changed the Qiblah (prayer direction) to Masjid Al Haram, then they will be attacked or killed? What was the loss or fear or the danger to the wrong doers?

PONDER OVER ALL THE QUESTIONS AND REFRESH YOUR MIND

'INNA 'ALLADHENA KAFARO WA- YAS.UDDON cAN SABEL 'ALLAAH WA- AL- MASJID AL- H.ARAAM 'ALLADHE JAcALNAA -HU LI- AN- NAAS SAWAA' AL- cAAKIF FE -HI WA- AL- BAADI WA- MAN YURID FE -HI BI- ILH.AAD BI- Z.ULM NUDHIQ -HU MIN cADHAAB 'ALEM 2225

"Those who disbelieve, and bar from God's way and the Holy Mosque that We have appointed equal unto men, alike him who cleaves to it and the tent-dweller, and whosoever purposes to violate it wrongly, We shall let him taste a painful chastisement." Surah 2225

Allah makes clear the distinction of the men described.

'INNA 'AWWAL BAYT WUD.IcA LI- AN- NAAS LA- 'ALLADHE BI- BAKKAH MUBAARAK (AN) WA- HUDA (N) LI- AL- cAALAMEN 396

WA- 'IDH JAcALNAA AL- BAYT MATHAABAH LI- AN- NAAS WA- 'AMN(AN) WA- ITTAKHIDHO MIN MAQAAM 'IBRAAHEM MUS.ALLA(N) WA- cAHIDNAA 'ILAA 'IBRAAHEM WA- 'ISMAAcEL 'AN T.AHHIRAA BAYT -E LI- AT.- T.AA'IFEN WA- AL- cAAKIFEN WA- AR- RUKKAc AS- SUJOD 2125

JAcALA 'ALLAAH AL- KAcBAH AL- BAYT AL- H.ARAAM QIYAAM(AN) LI- AN- NAAS WA- ASH- SHAHR AL- H.ARAAM WA- AL- HADY WA- AL- QALAA'ID DHAALIKA LI- TAcLAMO 'ANNA 'ALLAAH YAcLAM MAA FE AS- SAMAAWAAT WA- MAA FE AL- 'ARD. WA- 'ANNA 'ALLAAH BI- KULL SHAY' cALEM 597

DO YOU FIND THE WORD ?MUSLIMS OR BELIEVERS? IN THE ABOVE VERSES?

ALL YOU WILL FIND IS ?LI AN NAAS? (MANKIND)

Which is what tribe? The tribe of Nasi or the tribe of Jinn? As shown in Surah 1141-6, they are part of the people, but of different bloodlines.

I mean no offense when I ask this Do you believe the Jinn are a race of spiritual beings?

A CHALLENGE TO ALL THE TRADITIONAL MUSLIMS, TO PROVE THAT THE MASJID AL HARAAM OR KAABA IS APPOINTED AS A PRAYING DIRECTION

ALLAH KNOWS BEST

I am not a 'traditional' Muslim. I follow only what Allah revealed, the word of an honored Messenger The Quran. Surah 6940-43, 8119
I am a Muslim, named by Allah in the Quran; a believer with faith in his heart. How can I not believe when I stand upon clear proofs from my Creator?

I have brought proof from the Quran to show why I believe what I believe.
Qiblah shows whose teachings we follow Surah 2143
Qiblah is a command from Allah Surah 729
Allah does not change, nor does He change His way (sunnati Allahi) Surah 624, 6115, 1064, 1777, 1827, 3030, 3362, 4815, 4823, 673-4
Qiblah upheld by previous Prophets (pbut) I Kings 822-44, Surah 171, 174-7, 9107, Dan. 610, Luke 951-56

I have brought proof from the previous Books to show what the Yahud, Nazarene, and Sabians believe, and why they balk at upholding Masjid Al-Haram due to their disbelief.

Syncretism Prayer
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9pC0lZ856M

The sin is in not confirming the Truth Surah 7531-32, 1736, 496
?And follow not that of which thou has no knowledge. Surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, of all of these it will be asked.? Surah 1736

Allah knows best. May we turn to Him and ask Him to guide us.

I look forward to your response.

May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.

Peace and blessings.

mmkhan

Salaam,

"Qul aAAoothu birabbi alnnasi
Ilahi alnnasi
Maliki alnnasi
Min sharri alwaswasi alkhannasi
Allathee yuwaswisu fee sudoori alnnasi
Mina aljinnati waalnnasi" Surah 1141-6

You have made a mistake here brother. Please correct it.

"Qul aAAoothu birabbi alnnasi
Maliki alnnasi - this line should come before the next one.
Ilahi alnnasi
Min sharri alwaswasi alkhannasi
Allathee yuwaswisu fee sudoori alnnasi
Mina aljinnati waalnnasi" Surah 1141-6

Mohammed M. Khan

exodus

Ask Allah to explain it.

It's that easy. Surah 245

Peace.

Then, you should mean all bunch of words of you written here are what Allah explained to you after you asked for it?

Have you any proof for us?

Peace.

raginggaijin

Salaam,
You have made a mistake here brother. Please correct it.

"Qul aAAoothu birabbi alnnasi
Maliki alnnasi - this line should come before the next one.
Ilahi alnnasi
Min sharri alwaswasi alkhannasi
Allathee yuwaswisu fee sudoori alnnasi
Mina aljinnati waalnnasi" Surah 1141-6

Mohammed M. Khan

Thank you for pointing that out. Unfortunately, I am unable to go back and amend the post. However, your post will serve as a reference. For that you have my gratitude.
I thank Allah for sending you to prove that man makes mistakes - even me - but Allah neither errs nor forgets. Surah 482, 2052
May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.
Peace.

Then, you should mean all bunch of words of you written here are what Allah explained to you after you asked for it?

Have you any proof for us?

Peace.

Allah increases those He chooses in knowledge.
"So high exalted be God, the true King! And hasten not with the Koran ere its revelation is accomplished unto thee; and say, 'O my Lord, increase me in knowledge.'" Surah 20114
"Then their Prophet said to them, 'Verily God has raised up Saul for you as king.' They said, 'How should he be king over us who have better right than he to kingship, seeing he has not been given amplitude of wealth?' He said, 'God has chosen him over you, and has increased him broadly in knowledge and body. God gives the kingship to whom He will; and God is All-embracing, All-knowing.'" Surah 2247
"They said, 'Glory be to Thee! We know not save what Thou hast taught us. Surely Thou art the All-knowing, the All-wise.'" Surah 232
"And they routed them, by the leave of God, and David slew Goliath; and God gave him the kingship, and Wisdom, and He taught him such as He willed. Had God not driven back the people, some by the means of others, the earth had surely corrupted; but God is bounteous unto all beings." Surah 2251
"O believers, when you contract a debt one upon another for a stated term, write it down, and let a writer write it down between you justly, and let not any writer refuse to write it down, as God has taught him; so let him write, and let the debtor dictate, and let him fear God his Lord and not diminish aught of it." Surah 2282
"They will question thee what is permitted them. Say 'The good things are permitted you; and such hunting creatures as you teach, training them as hounds, and teaching them as God has taught you -- eat what they seize for you, and mention God's Name over it. Fear God; God is swift at the reckoning.'" Surah 54
"So We turn about the signs, that they may say, 'Thou hast studied'; and that We may make it clear to a people having knowledge." Surah 615

Allah is Guide. Allah explains. Surah 373, 426, 487,179, 2532, 346, 3923, 4144, 456. 5417,22,32,40, 5675-81, 7516-19, 7750, 1035, 73, 2779, 333, 1689
?And thus have We made for every prophet an enemy from among the guilty, and sufficient is thy Lord as a Guide and a Helper." Surah 2531
?Allah desires to explain to you, and to guide you into the ways of those before you, and to turn to you, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.? Surah 426
"Move not thy tongue therewith to make haste with it. Surely on Us rests the collecting of it and the reciting of it. So when We recite it, follow its recitation. Again on Us rests the explaining of it." Surah 7516-19

Allah is sufficient for the believers Surah 3173, 445, 470, 479, 481, 4132, 4166, 4171, 862, 864, 959, 9129, 1029, 1343, 1796, 2952, 333, 3339, 3936, 3938, 4828, 653
?Belongs not sincere religion to Allah? And those who take protectors, apart from Him -- 'We only serve them that they may bring us nigh in nearness to Allah' -- surely Allah shall judge between them touching that whereon they are at variance. Surely Allah guides not him who is a liar, unthankful.? Surah 393
"And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way." Surah 2186

The Quran is the Book, the Wisdom, complete, detailed, an explanation of all things Surah 1789, 1854, 331, 1037, 311-6, 2530, 111, 413, 4144, 6114, 752, 12111, 1689, 545, 101, 363
?And certainly We have explained in this Quran every kind of example, and man is most of all given to contention.? Surah 1854
?And certainly We have made clear for men in this Quran every kind of description, but most men consent naught save denying.? Surah 1789
?In their stories is surely a lesson to men possessed of minds; it is not a tale forged, but a confirmation of what is before it, and a distinguishing of every thing, and a guidance, and a mercy to a people who believe.? Surah 12111
"And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the Book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds." Surah 1037

The final argument is Allah?s Surah 6149, 2850
""Say 'To Allah belongs the argument conclusive; for had He willed, He would have guided you all.'" Surah 6149
"Then if they do not answer thee, know that they are only following their caprices; and who is further astray than he who follows his caprice without guidance from Allah? Surely Allah guides not the people of the evildoers." Surah 2850

Peace.

exodus

Allah increases those He chooses in knowledge.

Indeed.. but i meant that have you any proof for us approving you as someone "chosen" for knowledge.

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The final argument is Allah?s Surah 6149, 2850
""Say 'To Allah belongs the argument conclusive; for had He willed, He would have guided you all.'" Surah 6149
"Then if they do not answer thee, know that they are only following their caprices; and who is further astray than he who follows his caprice without guidance from Allah? Surely Allah guides not the people of the evildoers." Surah 2850

Again, all you mentioned verses above can't be a proof for admitting you as who rewarded with doubtless knowledge. You can't admit yourself as contributing exact knowledge rather than "just sharing what you understand in your readings". This is what i mentioned exactly while talking about Understanding in previous message.

Peace.

raginggaijin

Indeed.. but i meant that have you any proof for us approving you as someone "chosen" for knowledge.

I don't know if you are serious or joking.

Anyone can be knowledgable. Allah states clearly in the Quran that we - the believers - are to become scholars because we study the Book.

"It belongs not to any mortal that God should give him the Book, the Judgment, the Prophethood, then he should say to men, 'Be you servants to me apart from God.' Rather, 'Be you scholars ( rabbaniyyeena) in that you know the Book, and in that you study.' " Surah 379

Someone came to me and said 'Our qiblah is Jerusalem!' So instead of blindly believing, I turned to Allah and asked Him to explain to me what our qiblah is, and studied the Quran. I confirmed the Truth - Jerusalem is NOT our qiblah.
That is what we are called upon by Allah to do.

"They count it as a favour to thee that they have surrendered! Say 'Do not count your surrendering as a favour to me; nay, but rather God confers a favour upon you, in that He has guided you to belief, if it be that you are truthful." Surah 4917

I tell YOU to serve Allah and only Allah if you are truthful. Do not take me as a guide or leader. I never told you or anyone to follow me or serve me. Far be Allah above what you describe! He needs no helper or assistance. He is Self-Sufficient, All Mighty, All Powerful.
If He choses to guide you, He will guide. If He choses to lead you astray, you will have no helper but Him.

Where do you get the idea you have to be 'chosen' to understand the Quran?

Again, all you mentioned verses above can't be a proof for admitting you as who rewarded with doubtless knowledge. You can't admit yourself as contributing exact knowledge rather than "just sharing what you understand in your readings". This is what i mentioned exactly while talking about Understanding in previous message.

Peace.

I never said my knowledge is 'doubtless'. You put words in my mouth that I never stated. Please do not create a strawman argument.

I bring information given to me by Allah because I study His Book and I confirm the Truth. Descriptions are given in the Quran. Did you check them out?

We are called upon to study the Book, then go forth among our people and give reminder and warning.

"It is not for the believers to go forth totally; but why should not a party of every section of them go forth, to become learned in religion, and to warn their people when they return to them, that haply they may beware?" Surah 9122

You are now given information, which you are to confirm on your own. Now is the time when you either check it out or don't. My obligation is to only remind. That's it. What you do now is up to you.

"Nothing of their account falls upon those that are godfearing; but a reminding; haply they will be godfearing." Surah 669

The sin is in not confirming the Truth.

"For he confirmed it not, and did not pray," Surah 7531
"Fala saddaqa wala salla" Surah 7531

If you can, bring proof to refute what is shown. When I am given clear proof, I change to suit Allah's will, not my own. Why wouldn't I? I submit my will to Him and only Him.

Why would I need anyone but Allah to explain when He is the One who created human beings?

Why don't you discuss what is brought forth? Instead of seeking to invalidate the person bringing the information, open the Quran and check what I've stated; is it true or not? Check the Arabic revelation, translations. Do the historic accounts match the Quran? The Quran is a verification of what came before. Allah does not forget nor does He err. Surah 482, 2052

Why are you adverse to reading this information and checking it out for yourself?

Believe or believe not. I'm not responsible for you and I won't be asked what you did. )
But I can show proof from the Quran why I believe what I believe.

Can you?
If you cannot, what are you going to do to remedy it?

"Will you bid others to piety, and forget yourselves while you recite the Book? Do you not understand?" Surah 244

May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.

Peace.

captainneckbeard

Salamun alaykum

How long have we been seeing this particular topic discussed and debated and still no light at the end of the proverbial tunnel ? There have been so many theories , conjectures and speculations about these supposedly holy places . If the subject matter in question wasn't so serious , I would have found it so funny and even ridiculous .

My own thought in respect of this often controversial topic is .......that as long as we continue to convince ourselves that "al Masjid al Haram and al Masjid al Aqsa" are two physical Mosques , our attempts at grasping the Truth will be futile . Can we let go of all our pre-conceived ideas about Islam and start from what we know about the Qur'an now ? How about starting with Ayman's translation of "al Masjid al Haram" as The Inviolable institution of Obediance or simply The Law ( my preference ) ? After all this al Masjid al Haram was so obvious , that any believers at the time of the messenger would have recognised it as they would their own children . ( Qur'an 2144 ) . As for Al Masjid al Aqsa , or the farthest or is it the highest place of sujud ? I thought that this meaning presents no problem in reaching a clear conclusion as to the real meaning .

We as human being all have to go through a learning process , from basic knowledge of the world around us as well acquiring knowledge of the creator god , and Ahmad / Muhammad no exception to this rule in order to progress to a higher understanding , 937 , 961-5 . The messenger was searching for the Truth even before his appointment as prophet and messenger , and there are many anecdotal and hearsay evidence for this , regardless of the nature of these evidences , the sheer volume of it cannot be ignored . Further clarifying evidence to the need of the messenger to go through the learning process as a normal human can be seen at 18110 and 650 . Only had the messenger undergone all the "Learning Process" as a normal man did he progress to a higher understanding of Truth through the guidance of The God by reading and studying The Qur'an that was revealed to him by The all Knowing as evidenced by 2945 , 2121 and 1736 .

So , my personal understanding of The Journey from Al Masjid al Haram to The Furthest Masjid is that of a Spiritual and intellectual Journey rather than a physical one . From the the basic knowledge and observance of the law to the highest possible human potential e.g. Self Actualization and Self Trancendence as Abraham Marslow would describe it . My view on Hajj is very similar to this view of the two so called Holy Masjid , that is I believe that Hajj is a Pilgrimage within our understanding from the Base to the Ultimate in human enlightenment . And we as believers should try to emulate The Role Models recommended to us by The Merciful God .

Peace and may The God guide us to all truth

This site is what brought me to Quran alone, and it is also the site that drove me away from it. I've tried to keep believing that the Quran is complete, but the seemingly most important aspects, such as salat, is so confusing that if you ask 3 people on this site, you'll get 4 different answers as to what it is, and how to do it. People have no idea how to do pilgrimages. The only seemingly clear parts of the Quran are the mundane laws, like how to handle orphans and inheritance.

Wakas

This site is what brought me to Quran alone, and it is also the site that drove me away from it. I've tried to keep believing that the Quran is complete, but the seemingly most important aspects, such as salat, is so confusing that if you ask 3 people on this site, you'll get 4 different answers as to what it is, and how to do it. People have no idea how to do pilgrimages. The only seemingly clear parts of the Quran are the mundane laws, like how to handle orphans and inheritance.

I once asked what is the best way to make a lasagne on a food forum and I got 5 different recipes, totally drove me away from cooking.

mmkhan

Salaam CNB,

This site is what brought me to Quran alone, and it is also the site that drove me away from it. I've tried to keep believing that the Quran is complete, but the seemingly most important aspects, such as salat, is so confusing that if you ask 3 people on this site, you'll get 4 different answers as to what it is, and how to do it. People have no idea how to do pilgrimages. The only seemingly clear parts of the Quran are the mundane laws, like how to handle orphans and inheritance.

Why you ask people? If you ask people just to get you some help, then it is OK, if you seek guidance from them then you are already wrong.

4060
4060 And your Lord said Call on Me and I will respond to you. Surely, those who are too arrogant to serve Me, they will enter Hell, humbled.

10109
10109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until Allah judges. And He is the best of judges.

73
73 Follow what was sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any supporters. Little do you remember!

Just follow what was given to you from your Lord, you don't need to follow others.

544
544 We have sent down the Torah, in it is a guidance and a light; the prophets who have submitted judged with it for those who are Jewish, and the Devotees, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of the Book of Allah, and they were witness over. So do not be concerned with the people but be concerned with Me; and do not purchase with My revelations a cheap price. And whoever does not judge with what Allah has sent down, then these are the rejecters.

Please note that Allah did not say "whoever does not judge with with AlQuraan or AlKitaab" but it refers to what is sent down to you as in 73 above. Hence, you don't need follow others.

551
552
551 AlRahmaan.
552 He has taught the Quraan.

Why you want to keep yourself away from Allah, why don't you seek His help where Allah's guidance is the real guidance. Why you see others, you are not going answer for others. Seek Allah's help, do not rush, follow whatever He guides you towards and be thankful to Him for His guidance. Just a brotherly suggestion.

May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan

exodus

I don't know if you are serious or joking.

Anyone can be knowledgable. Allah states clearly in the Quran that we - the believers - are to become scholars because we study the Book.

I'm really serious and curious about your attitude of contributing your "knowledge". This is the reason of why I pointed out understanding rather than plain reading here. People around the world may read same words but may understand totally different things.

I can get knowledge in the Quran on my own way as you can do on your own way despite being in opposite thoughts. Then, being in knowledge is not case here. The point is which one is wrong or right.

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.