For the upcoming documantery film
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OK let's see if it works without 9128-129
ch v
1 7
2 286
3 200
4 176
.........
.........
.........
112 4
113 5
114 66555 6234 = 3642013 x 18!
The above manipulation is from me, just to save space!
Dear,
There seems to be a "clever" cheating with your count! You intentionally missed the 112 UNNUMBERED BISMILLAAH verses!
6234+112=6346=19X334!
SO, you did manipulate your numbers, Didn't you, you little devil?!! >D ;D
Peace,
Khalil -
The above manipulation is from me, just to save space!
Dear,
There seems to be a "clever" cheating with your count! You intentionally missed the 112 UNNUMBERED BISMILLAAH verses!
6234+112=6346=19X334!
SO, you did manipulate your numbers, Didn't you, you little devil?!! >D ;D
Peace,
KhalilI know how simple numerology works and no need for me to manipulate a thing.
Including 112 would mess up their count ? hence excluded.
It?s simple really; if it works include multiple otherwise hide results and move on.
Peace!
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Peace be upon you!
Doc Holiday Credat Judaeus Apella, non ego
"Let the Jew Apella believe it; not I". Taken from an old poem by Horace of people try to convince travelers of miracles happening at their shrines; they reply with disbelief and that they should go tell their foolish stories to someone else.Perhaps invite the infactuated with all things 18 to participate as well.
http//www.jewfaq.org/alephbet.htm
18 is very significant because it is the numerical value of the word Chai, meaning life.
Jews often give gifts and donations in multiples of 18 which is called "giving chai".pretty cool huh?
peace
Well, it looks cool at the first sight, but when you look at it carefully, you will notice arbitrary manipulations and lack of a system.
In the book NINETEEN God's Signature in Nature and Scripture, I have allocated a chapter and a few appendices to distinguish the numerical structure of the Quran from these kinds of innumerate manipulations.
Peace,
Edip -
Well, it looks cool at the first sight, but when you look at it carefully, you will notice arbitrary manipulations and lack of a system.
In the book NINETEEN God's Signature in Nature and Scripture, I have allocated a chapter and a few appendices to distinguish the numerical structure of the Quran from these kinds of innumerate manipulations.
Peace,
EdipNot buying it until you show your best example applied consistently (manipulate all you like) or even simpler please tell us what is nineteen about the shortest chapter 108 and what prevents flipping it with chapter 103 for example?
chv ltrs words
1031 6 1
1032 14 4
1033 51 91081 15 3
1082 12 3
1083 15 4If you cannot then it's pointless to continue. Also, no verse numbers until added years later.
If you disagree then point them out on these old manuscripts which includes 9128-129?http//www.unesco-ci.org/photos/showphoto.php/photo/3355/title/highlights3a-letter-po/cat/837
http//www.unesco-ci.org/photos/data/837/10big.jpg
Copying date 2nd Century
Surah name Surat al Tawba, surat Yunus
Verses number part of 129 from surat al Tawba to 3 and part of 4 from surat YunusQur'an 1st/2nd centuries; Chaper 60 part of verse 4 to 8 and part of 9
http//oi55.tinypic.com/315lukj.jpgPeace!
SEid -- Mr. Holiday
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Saed,
I cannot repeat a book-size debate with you here. If you have any interest in the subject matter you should first look the NINETEEN God's Signature in Nature and Scripture. If you do not wish to order the book from Amazon.com or other online stores, please send me an email I will give you access to its electronic version.As for verse numbers... I am glad that you are researching. But you are not very good at it. At least yet. If you had seen those manuscripts with naked eye, you would see that verses are separated by dots in different colors. In the picture you are showing the dots are too faded to be visible.
Peace.
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I'm not a 19er, but congrats on the making of this documentary bros... I would love to see it ]
p.s.
If it there was a code in the Qur'an, it would be a miracle! Unfortunately, "code 19" is not a code...19ers are spending a lot of time just reaching for stuff in the Qur'an which is divisible by 19.Furthermore, I'm sure, there alot things in the qur'an which are divisible by 21, but we shouldn't delete two of them, just to conform to a common denominator of 19, this is very unscientific.
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Saed,
I cannot repeat a book-size debate with you here. If you have any interest in the subject matter you should first look the NINETEEN God's Signature in Nature and Scripture. If you do not wish to order the book from Amazon.com or other online stores, please send me an email I will give you access to its electronic version.As for verse numbers... I am glad that you are researching. But you are not very good at it. At least yet. If you had seen those manuscripts with naked eye, you would see that verses are separated by dots in different colors. In the picture you are showing the dots are too faded to be visible.
Peace.
Edip, you can show one example (your best) or simply answer the question about switching ch 108 and 103?
Only dots are red/green hamza markings (not sure if you count them); can't see any verse end/begin dots...
http//oi56.tinypic.com/30wv71x.jpg
http//oi51.tinypic.com/5n7ode.jpg
http//oi53.tinypic.com/nycx2t.jpgPeace
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please tell us what is nineteen about the shortest chapter 108 and what prevents flipping it with chapter 103 for example?
good question... but dont wait for this kurdish american creature to answer it because he hasnt got any answer as you also know..
yet don't forget that your question is still unable to disprove the existence of 19 miracle, but only shows that there is no "single math. system of Quran" which detects any kind of distortion in it...
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Salaam ggg,
Edip is not a creature, he is a good man who has passionate views, personal insults demonstrate you are of a far lower order than he, I do not have any interest at all in the number nineteen, and find the idea pointless in light of understanding the concepts of Islam better, but would not insult, attack or riddicule anyone who found solace in a number. Why do you?
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Salaam ggg,
Edip is not a creature, he is a good man who has passionate views, personal insults demonstrate you are of a far lower order than he, I do not have any interest at all in the number nineteen, and find the idea pointless in light of understanding the concepts of Islam better, but would not insult, attack or riddicule anyone who found solace in a number. Why do you?
That is because ggg is a pretentious ignorant who is probably trying to let off his life's frustrations on this forum, as seen in other threads...
ggg,
Create something useful before you blatantly and shallowly insult someone because of their race. At least try to provide some valid points against Edip's points.4913 O people, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may come to know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is knowledgeable, ever-aware.
3022 Among His signs are the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and your colors. In that are signs for the world.
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Yes. hmm
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It does not take much study or research to learn that the oldest available manuscripts had indeed separated the verses with marks. Through my discussion on this subject I have seen the combination of three characteristics of the ingrates Ignorance, prejudice and arrogance. When it is only ignorance there is cure; when they are shown the evidence they correct themselves. However, whenever ignorance is combined with prejudice and especially with arrogance, there is no cure; the ingrates will never be able to witness clear divine signs. It has been the law in the past, now and in the future. Please read verse 7146 and reflect on it.
I am attaching a few pages from Tashkent and Sana copies. I do not have more time to indulge in unending debate on this issue.
Below you will see the separation marks between 420, 421, 422.
http//C\Documents and Settings\Edip Yuksel\My Documents\My Pictures\Quran\Tashkent\172.gif
Below you will see separation marks between 362, 363, 364
http//C\Documents and Settings\Edip Yuksel\My Documents\My Pictures\Quran\Tashkent\102.gif
Below you will see separation marks between 5100, 5101
http//C\Documents and Settings\Edip Yuksel\My Documents\My Pictures\Quran\Tashkent\234.gif
Below you will see separation marks between 657, 658
http//C\Documents and Settings\Edip Yuksel\My Documents\My Pictures\Quran\Tashkent\273.gif
Below is the SANA manuscript and several vers marks can be seen between verse 443 to verse 448
http//C\Documents and Settings\Edip Yuksel\My Documents\My Pictures\Quran\Quran Sana\102092C.bmp
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Unfortunately, I was not able to upload pictures from MY COMPUTER. I know how to insert pictures from other websites, but I have the copy of Tashkent and Sana manuscripts in my computer.
I would appreciate if someone help me how to upload the pictures (gif, bmp, jpeg).
Peace,
Edip -
Salaam brother,
Unfortunately, I was not able to upload pictures from MY COMPUTER. I know how to insert pictures from other websites, but I have the copy of Tashkent and Sana manuscripts in my computer.
I would appreciate if someone help me how to upload the pictures (gif, bmp, jpeg).
Peace,
EdipYou can try http//www.tinypic.com
And get the link FOR FORUMS and paste it here.
Mohammed M. Khan
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It does not take much study or research to learn that the oldest available manuscripts had indeed separated the verses with marks. Through my discussion on this subject I have seen the combination of three characteristics of the ingrates Ignorance, prejudice and arrogance. When it is only ignorance there is cure; when they are shown the evidence they correct themselves. However, whenever ignorance is combined with prejudice and especially with arrogance, there is no cure; the ingrates will never be able to witness clear divine signs. It has been the law in the past, now and in the future. Please read verse 7146 and reflect on it.
I am attaching a few pages from Tashkent and Sana copies. I do not have more time to indulge in unending debate on this issue.
Neither do I have time, especially with ingrates who hide and neglect to mention that verses 9128-129 are included while hamza is excluded (this is malicious behavior, intellectual deceit). Nothing to debate, you found inconsistent nineteen multiples, skip everything that was not; e.g., they also stamped a square at end every 10 verses on some manuscripts like Uthman Tashkent Qur'an.
Script Kufic. Part of Sura XXII, verses 10-12
http//oi53.tinypic.com/20rk8ly.jpg
2210 That for what have sent forth your hands and that Allah is not unjust to His servants
2211
And from the mankind who worships Allah on an edge, so if befalls him good he is content with it
And if befalls him fit'natun he turns on his face
He has lost the world and the hereafter, that it the loss clear2212 He calls from besides Allah what not harms him and what not benefits him...
7428-31
Not it lets remain
And not it leaves scorching the human
Over it nineteen
And not We have made keepers the fire only malikatan
And not We have made their count only fit'natan for those kafar ...Peace
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Seid,
After I provided the reference, you did post one of them, thereby disproven your own argument. However, since you have no intellectual integrity of accepting your mistake, you ventured to highlight the word Fitna and try to hurl it at me. Those who have witnessed the One of the Greatest signs, know very well who is in fitna. As those who brag of being deaf and blind to God's signs, are also deaf and blind that they are in the middle of the Fitna. What an irony, what a miserable destiny.
I invite everyone who wish to study the subject before making up their mind, to study it for themselves. You may take the easier rout by reading NINETEEN God's Signature in Nature and Scripture, which is available at Amazon.com and other online stores.
Those who cannot afford buying the book, please contact me via EMAIL, I may help you in obtaining the book.
Peace,
Edip -
It does not take much study or research to learn that the oldest available manuscripts had indeed separated the verses with marks. Through my discussion on this subject I have seen the combination of three characteristics of the ingrates Ignorance, prejudice and arrogance. When it is only ignorance there is cure; when they are shown the evidence they correct themselves. However, whenever ignorance is combined with prejudice and especially with arrogance, there is no cure; the ingrates will never be able to witness clear divine signs. It has been the law in the past, now and in the future. Please read verse 7146 and reflect on it.
I am attaching a few pages from Tashkent and Sana copies. I do not have more time to indulge in unending debate on this issue.
Below you will see the separation marks between 420, 421, 422.
http//i51.tinypic.com/6nvvrq.gif
Below you will see separation marks between 362, 363, 364
http//i56.tinypic.com/10pq4jt.gif
Below you will see separation marks between 5100, 5101
http//i53.tinypic.com/2mpyj45.gif
Below you will see separation marks between 657, 658
http//i54.tinypic.com/qzixck.gif
Below is the SANA manuscript and several vers marks can be seen between verse 443 to verse 448
http//i53.tinypic.com/jpv21e.jpg