What to say on the food?
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Peace brother
As per 7180 and 208, you may be right, but I am not sure and I may need sometime to know it better.
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The main point remains only prophets of messengers may speak or act in the name of God by using the sentence -bismiLlah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem-, in the case of Godly inspiration.
The ordinary believers should better avoid the suggestion to speak or act in the name of God, when they are not Godly inspired - rather they are allowed only to mention the name of God on the food, or the animal that is to be slaughered - that is different from speaking or acting in His name.
unquoteWhat? I don't think so, sorry, but at the moment I cannot agree with the highlighted part above. Can you please explain what you mean by "when they are not Godly inspired" ?
Regarding the words -bismiLlah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem- one can understand from the Koran that these words are a seal to mark the words that are Godly inspired - as the beginning of a chapter of the Koran or as the beginning of the letter of the prophet Solomon, verse 2730.
The words -bismiLlah- mark the words inspired by the Creator, they are not the private words of the prophet or the messenger.
So any other believer who is not Godly inspired should avoid the use of words that suggest that one is Godly inspired - by saying in the name of God.
Some believers even write -bismiLlah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem above letters, or say these holy words when they enter a house and so on.
The literal translation of the wording -bismiLlah- implies if used by an ordinary believer that one suggests to act or speak in the name of God, this seems not to be appropiate.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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The Koran acknowledges a very structural difference between the Creator and the creatures - as for instance the human beings are.
The rulings of the Koran are directed to the human beings as servants and creatures of God.
It seems preferable to follow this clear truth from the Koran.According to the literal reading of the relevant verses, the believers should mention the name of God on the food and on the to be slaughtered animals.
That is different from using the words bismiLlah (ar-Rahman ar-Raheem), since these words indicate that one acts or speaks in the name of God, that can only be in the case of real Godly inspiration, as far as one can know from the Koran.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
Creatures? You mean creation? In case you missed the discussions on life/uncreated/god versus creation/body/object/jinn you can look them up in my posts. If you really see a difference between "mentioning the name of God" and uttering "in the name of God".. I think I expressed myself clearly enough in my last post. To further extend the esoteric view, one may view this expression, as an angel, taking the life of a being.
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Creatures? You mean creation? In case you missed the discussions on life/uncreated/god versus creation/body/object/jinn you can look them up in my posts. If you really see a difference between "mentioning the name of God" and uttering "in the name of God".. I think I expressed myself clearly enough in my last post. To further extend the esoteric view, one may view this expression, as an angel, taking the life of a being.
We can not know what the angel says in case of taking the life of a being - the Koran does not give information about this subject.
Human beings are creatures (a human being is also a creature, since he/she is a creation of God) that are created by God which have the special quality of the free will. Because of this free will the human being is not able to speak or act in the name of God - as in -bismiLlah-.
Only when the prophet or messenger is inspired by God, then the inspired words or inspired acts of the prophet or messenger are really in the name of God.
Regarding the beginning of the chapters of the Koran and the beginning of the letter of the prophet Solomon - verse 2730.
Ordinary believers should mention the name of God on the food - verse 6118 and on the animals that humans are provided with - verse 2234.
They can choose from the beautiful names of God a name and mention that name on the food or the animal.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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We
ll just have to differ. I could answer, but Im a bit busy. I do believe anything really is "in the name of God". -
Oh yes this is very important..
Given 'the food' has ears.. and they could listen on what we say to them..
As thus we need to say it correctly... otherwise we might hurt their feelings..6118 - So eat from that on which God's name has been mentioned, if you indeed acknowledge His signs. -
6121 - Do not eat from what God's name has not been mentioned, for it is vile ? -
2234 - For every nation We have made a rite that they may mention God's name over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock ... -
The point is that the Koran tells the believers to mention the name of God on the food and on the to be slaughtered and may be also on the to be milked animals.
The believers have to remember God in the right way during several actions during the day, for instance with -salat- and according to the relevant verses at the moment of the beginning of eating and before the slaughtering and may be before the milking.These are rulings from the Koran - it seems to be inappropriate to decide for oneself if it is important enough or not, to try to fulfil these orders from the Koran in the best way, in the way that the Koran prescribes.
It is adviced not to be sarcastic about verses of the Koran.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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6118 - So eat from that on which God's name has been mentioned, if you indeed acknowledge His signs. -
6121 - Do not eat from what God's name has not been mentioned, for it is vile ? -
2234 - For every nation We have made a rite that they may mention God's name over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock ... -
The point is that the Koran tells the believers to mention the name of God on the food and on the to be slaughtered and may be also on the to be milked animals.
The believers have to remember God in the right way during several actions during the day, for instance with -salat- and according to the relevant verses at the moment of the beginning of eating and before the slaughtering and may be before the milking.These are rulings from the Koran - it seems to be inappropriate to decide for oneself if it is important enough or not, to try to fulfil these orders from the Koran in the best way, in the way that the Koran prescribes.
It is adviced not to be sarcastic about verses of the Koran.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
Salam, Peace,
I totally agree with you, I am usually very disapointed when a "3alim" or Imam or whoever start a dsicours using the Bismillah, because what should come after the bismillah can only be The Gods's word!!!
You cannot speak in the name of someone else if you haven't been granted the permission to do so!!!! It is easy as simple as this.
Peace
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Salaam bro,
Regarding the words -bismiLlah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem- one can understand from the Koran that these words are a seal to mark the words that are Godly inspired - as the beginning of a chapter of the Koran or as the beginning of the letter of the prophet Solomon, verse 2730.
The words -bismiLlah- mark the words inspired by the Creator, they are not the private words of the prophet or the messenger.
So any other believer who is not Godly inspired should avoid the use of words that suggest that one is Godly inspired - by saying in the name of God.
Some believers even write -bismiLlah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem above letters, or say these holy words when they enter a house and so on.
The literal translation of the wording -bismiLlah- implies if used by an ordinary believer that one suggests to act or speak in the name of God, this seems not to be appropiate.I don't agree with your understand about BismiAllah AlRahmaan AlRaheeem
After going through the aayaats I understand that "Allah" is not the name but it is simple "Al + Ilaha" that means "The + God", and also "AlRahmaan" is not the name.
113 suras starts with "BismiAllah AlRahmaan AlRaheem", lets break it up and see...
Bi with
Ism name
Allah Allah
AlRahmaan AlRahmaan
AlRaheem AlRaheemThe word "Ism" is singular, so "AlRahmaan" and "AlRaheem" both cannot be the names. Furthermore...
17110
17110 Say Call upon Allah or call upon AlRahmaan; to whomever you call, to Him are the best names. And do not be too loud in making your contact prayer, nor too quiet; but seek a path in between.17110 makes it more clear that AlRahmaan is also not the name. So, in "BismiAllah AlRahmaan AlRaheem", only "AlRaheem" might be the name of Allah. Or "Allah", "AlRahmaan" and "AlRaheem" all might be the attributes NOT THE NAMES. You may be thinking then why it is said "BismiAllah" in the beginning, to understand it better, please take a look at 1141
1141
1141 And he said Ride in it, in the name of Allah shall be its running and its anchorage. My Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.He said "BismiAllah" with out taking any name of Allah .
BismiAllah is used similar to BismiRabbika in 961
961
961 Read with the name of your Lord who has created.As "Rabb" is not the name but it means "Lord", similarly "Allah" is not the name but it means "The God". At the moment, this is how I understand.
So, finally I was looking for the names of Allah, what are they?
5924
5924 He is Allah; the Creator, the Initiator, the Designer. To Him belong the most beautiful names. Glorifying Him is everything in the heavens and the earth. He is the Noble, the Wise.I found only three names that is in 5924 i.e., "AlQaaliq", "AlBaariy" and "AlMusawwir" and all are unique, and it has to be unique because...
1965
1965 Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them. So serve Him and be patient in His service. Do you know anyone who has Name similar to Him?Names of Allah are unique and beautiful.
This is my current understanding about Allah and His names.
May Allah forgive us if we are mistaken and increase us in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
I think there is no special "statement" required to say before eating food,the way i understand it is that we should choose good,wholesome,natural foods,and if we eat meat,we should choose the animals that have been slaughtered in the most merciful way.
I think meal time is a spiritual time,a time when we are in a state of humbleness and gratitude for these provisions that sustain us and help us perform our duties.
If there was a special "statement" to utter,we would have known from the Quran, and to my knowledge,there is none.Peace to you all
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And thus,I agree totally with Paradox, that God is life, and that it is natural to mention his name and attributes,and to be in gratitude for his provisions that sustain us.
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Yes. Adding the attributes is further acknowledging the real God. Which btw there was an interesting discussion on, about whether it meant compassionte or almighty. There can be only one almighy God, that is logical. So if there is a submeaning or meaning of almighty, that further strengthens the monotheistic perspective.
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Salaam brother
I don't agree with your understand about BismiAllah AlRahmaan AlRaheeem
After going through the aayaats I understand that "Allah" is not the name but it is simple "Al + Ilaha" that means "The + God", and also "AlRahmaan" is not the name.
113 suras starts with "BismiAllah AlRahmaan AlRaheem", lets break it up and see...
Bi with
Ism name
Allah Allah
AlRahmaan AlRahmaan
AlRaheem AlRaheem
The word "Ism" is singular, so "AlRahmaan" and "AlRaheem" both cannot be the names. Furthermore...It seems that -in the name- of God as in -bismiLlah- refers to the word Allah and not to the two names or attributes.
The prophet or messenger speaks or acts -in the name of God- because this person has been inspired by the Creator.
There is a difference between to speak or act -in the name of God- (the Gracious, the Compassionate) and to mention the name of God on the food or on the to be slaughtered (or may be to be milked) animal.17110
17110 Say Call upon Allah or call upon AlRahmaan; to whomever you call, to Him are the best names. And do not be too loud in making your contact prayer, nor too quiet; but seek a path in between.17110 makes it more clear that AlRahmaan is also not the name. So, in "BismiAllah AlRahmaan AlRaheem", only "AlRaheem" might be the name of Allah. Or "Allah", "AlRahmaan" and "AlRaheem" all might be the attributes NOT THE NAMES. You may be thinking then why it is said "BismiAllah" in the beginning, to understand it better, please take a look at 1141
In this verse the word -ar-Rahman- can be seen as an example of the names or attributes of Allah.
For now I see no difference between a name or attribute of Allah.
In the Koran more than 100 names are mentioned, they also can be regarded as attributes.1141
1141 And he said Ride in it, in the name of Allah shall be its running and its anchorage. My Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.He said "BismiAllah" with out taking any name of Allah .
The fact that according to verse 1141 the messenger-prophet Noah spoke these words further support that only the inspired prophets and messengers where allowed to speak these holy words, in conveying a text or related to an action.
As is the case with the beginning of the letter of the prophet Solomon, verse 2730.
With the permission of God the prophets and messengers where allowed to speak the words in the name of God.
Ordinary believers are advised to only recite these words from the Koran and not to use them privately, for instance when entering a house.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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I think there is no special "statement" required to say before eating food,the way i understand it is that we should choose good,wholesome,natural foods,and if we eat meat,we should choose the animals that have been slaughtered in the most merciful way.
I think meal time is a spiritual time,a time when we are in a state of humbleness and gratitude for these provisions that sustain us and help us perform our duties.
If there was a special "statement" to utter,we would have known from the Quran, and to my knowledge,there is none.Salaam Sa'adah
53 - Forbidden to you is what is already dead, and the blood, the meat of pig, and animals sacrificed to other than God ... -
6145 - Say, I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood poured forth, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God ... -
These verses show that the polytheists dedicated food and animals to the idols.
From this we may get the understanding of next verses6118 - So eat from that on which God's name has been mentioned, if you indeed acknowledge His signs. -
6121 - Do not eat from what God's name has not been mentioned, for it is vile ? -
2234 - For every nation We have made a rite that they may mention God's name over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock ... -
These verses inform the believers that they have to mention the name of God on the food and on the to be slaughtered (may be also on the to be milked) animals. These verses seem to be very clear, there seems not to be a reason to read these verses in a symbolical way.
Especially verse 6121 is very compelling to read it literal, the verse forbids to eat from any food on which the name of God has not been mentioned.The quality of the food is dealt with in other verses
588 - Eat from what God has provided for you, good and lawful; and be aware of God in whom you acknowledge. -
2168 - O people, eat of what is in the earth as good and lawful, and do not follow the steps of the devil; he is to you a clear enemy. -
Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Salaam,
I think there is no special "statement" required to say before eating food,the way i understand it is that we should choose good,wholesome,natural foods,and if we eat meat,we should choose the animals that have been slaughtered in the most merciful way.
I think meal time is a spiritual time,a time when we are in a state of humbleness and gratitude for these provisions that sustain us and help us perform our duties.
If there was a special "statement" to utter,we would have known from the Quran, and to my knowledge,there is none.Yes, correct, but it is said
6118
6118 So eat from that on which the name of Allah has been mentioned, if you indeed believe in His revelations.6121
6121 And do not eat from that which the name of Allah has not been mentioned, for it is wickedness. And the devils they inspire their supporters to argue with you; and if you obey them, then you are polytheists.It is not for you, the Name has to be taken by the one who slaughters and it is compulsory as per 6121.
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother
Yes, correct, but it is said
6118
6118 So eat from that on which the name of Allah has been mentioned, if you indeed believe in His revelations.6121
6121 And do not eat from that which the name of Allah has not been mentioned, for it is wickedness. And the devils they inspire their supporters to argue with you; and if you obey them, then you are polytheists.It is not for you, the Name has to be taken by the one who slaughters and it is compulsory as per 6121.
There seem to be two rulings
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The one who slaughters (or may be milks) the animal should mention the name of God over the living animal - verse 2234.
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The one who eats any food (meat, fish, bread, fruit, vegetables etc.) should mention the name of God over the food - verse 6118, 6121.
In verses 6118 and 6121 eating in general is mentioned not only the eating of meat.
Preferable to be safe than sorry.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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These are rulings from the Koran - it seems to be inappropriate to decide for oneself if it is important enough or not, to try to fulfil these orders from the Koran in the best way, in the way that the Koran prescribes.
It is adviced not to be sarcastic about verses of the Koran.First I see no problems to be sarcastic / critical on anything... including the Quran.
Second I'm being sarcastic on your 'interpretation' of the verse.
Third Trying to debate / finding out the exact saying or uttered words on food is something which is menial / unimportant and meaningless, let's do a test.. what should happen with a mute person? He/she shouldn't ate any food?
Fourth Historically and culturally.. this verse might relates to the context of 'eating food dedicated / blessed to/with the idols' within arab paganism society. There are verses in torah and bible which forbid eating things sacrificed to the idols. Furthermore the bible also forbid eating meat from mis-treated animals, such as killed through strangulation or other painful death. The concept is All lives are holy, killing an animal for purpose of eating are allowable given you must seek a 'blessing' (and pardon) from those who created the life and you must ensure the process shall cause minimum pain to the animal. Tortured animal's meat and meat sacrificed to idols are forbidden to eat. (non-kosher)
Salam / Peace
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Third Trying to debate / finding out the exact saying or uttered words on food is something which is menial / unimportant and meaningless, let's do a test.. what should happen with a mute person? He/she shouldn't ate any food?
This could go anywhere
With this way of reasoning one could try to say that -salat- is unimportant because some persons are not able to do this because they are hindered mentally or physically.The relevant verses of the Koran tell the believers clearly that the name of God has to be spoken on the food and on the to be slaughtered (and may be to be milked) animal. It is not up to the believers to decide which rulings of the Koran are important or not.
6118 - So eat from that on which God's name has been mentioned, if you indeed acknowledge His signs. -
6121 - Do not eat from what God's name has not been mentioned, for it is vile ? -
2234 - For every nation We have made a rite that they may mention God's name over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock ... -
The strong wording of verse 6121 indicates the importance of the ruling - it is a vile to eat from what the name of God has not been mentioned on.
For people who can not speak, other people who eat together with them could mention the name of God on the food.
For instance when a mute person eats alone, then following rule of verse 6145 is relevant- ... Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Compassionate. -
Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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...If you really see a difference between "mentioning the name of God" and uttering "in the name of God".. ...
Peace everyone. Paradox Uncreated it does seem quite picky. I hope it's ok to say Bismillah as even my children do it. It's also something I enjoy because it means a lot to me to think of God before eating.