Names
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Salaam Joe, Elena, all
Salaam Elena
Isa is the word based on the context of the ahadeeth (4171), yes. However, what Kyle is looking for is possible meanings of the specific words he has listed, which he does not see a proper nouns, such as your name for instance.
Joe
I don't agree, Isa is not the word, let us analyze 4171 in the light of this verse 37
wama yaAAlamu ta/weelahu illa Allahu waalrrasikhoona fee alAAilmi yaqooloona amannabihi kullun min AAindi rabbina (37)
But none know its interpretation except God and those who are well founded in knowledge say ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.? (37)
We could read this verse in two manners
- But none know its interpretation except God and those who are well founded in knowledge. That implies there is a full stop between "But none know its interpretation except God and those who are well founded in knowledge". and "say ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.? "
Consequently, this sentence say ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.? doesn't make sence because the actor of the action is not defined and which is and those who are well founded in knowledge .
- The sentence becomes complete when we say and those who are well founded in knowledge say ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.?
This reasoning is also valid for 4171
innama almaseehu AAeesaibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqahaila maryama
Jesus the son of Mary was no more than God?s messenger and His word which He delivered to Mary
We could read it in two manners
- Jesus the son of Mary was no more than God?s messenger and His word. That implies there is a full stop between "Jesus the son of Mary was no more than God?s messenger and His word". and " which He delivered to Mary"
Consequently, this sentence alqahaila maryama doesn't make sence.
Moreover " which He delivered to Mary" is not correct as translation for "alqahaila maryama" because we shoul read "allatee alqa ila maryama"; "allatee" is the equivalent to "which" in the sentence.
Word for word, I translate "alqaha ila maryam"as "He delivered it to Mary"
- The sentence becomes complete when we say and His word He delivered it to Mary
His word means the word of Allah = the good news announced to mary through a word from Him in 345
I hope that helps
345 and 4171
Marie
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Peace be upon you Elena,
You said that isa is the word.
Have you changed that understanding?
Or maybe I am not following well. It is little complicated to follow the diccusions.Yes, Isa, son of Mariam, is the symbolism for the Word. The MIND (nafs) being feminine, recieves the masculine RUH, and brings forth the Word.
But what I am trying to get is the actual meaning of the word "ISA", not what Isa symbolizes, which I already take as the WORD of the God.
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Peace be upon you Marie,
I disagree with what you have presented.
Does a man bring dead to life, heal the sick, blow into clay birds and bring them to life?
But the WORD of the God does all these things symbolically.
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Peace Kyle,
Peace be upon you Marie,
I disagree with what you have presented.
the verse explains itself, feel free to accept it or not.
You make a wrong reading for this verse.Does a man bring dead to life, heal the sick, blow into clay birds and bring them to life?
But the WORD of the God does all these things symbolically.
This is another subject but feel free to follow what is similar.
Marie
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Peace be upon you Zenje,
Yes, I agree with Yahud = guided, at this time.
I think "the guided ones" implies people whose hearts are wrapped, they have a philosophy that they blindly stick to. I do not see "the guided" as a group of people who belong to the jewish religion.
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Peace be upon you,
Sulayman (solomon) comes from the root word (S-L-M) which implies Peace.
Sulayman symbolizes the one who has achieved a peaceful state of mind, that is indeed a great kingdom where you are in control of your hidden thoughts (jinn).
Those who allow thier hidden thoughts to control them are on the wrong path.
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Peace be upon you Elena,
Where did you get "savior" from?
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Salaam Marie
Thank you for the info. However your study of 345 lends to the same problem you spoke of in 4171 when you said regarding it (4171)
Consequently, this sentence say ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.? doesn't make sence because the actor of the action is not defined and which is and those who are well founded in knowledge .
How? I shall point out why I believe there is a similar problem.
345 Angels said, ?O? Mary! Allah gives you the good news through a word from Him. His name would be Christ Jesus, son of Mary, held in honor in this world and among the ones close to Me in the Hereafter.?
Who is the 'colored' portion speaking of? It's like a sentence that make no sense in the middle of something completely different. It is not defined by anything previous if we take it according to your redention of it. Unless you can explain it clearer that I may understand.
Joe
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Salaam Joe,
Salaam Marie
Thank you for the info. However your study of 345 lends to the same problem you spoke of in 4171 when you said regarding it (4171)
37 and 4171 have the same structure.
Consequently, this sentence say ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.? doesn't make sence because the actor of the action is not defined and which is and those who are well founded in knowledge .
How? I shall point out why I believe there is a similar problem.
But the composition of 345 is a bit different than 37 and 4171
345 Angels said, ?O? Mary! Allah gives you the good news through a word from Him. His name would be Christ Jesus, son of Mary, held in honor in this world and among the ones close to Me in the Hereafter.?
Who is the 'colored' portion speaking of? It's like a sentence that make no sense in the middle of something completely different. It is not defined by anything previous if we take it according to your redention of it. Unless you can explain it clearer that I may understand.
the 'colored' portion is the content of the good news announced to Mary and we can read it in this manner while putting a point comma or between the two sentences 1); 2)
345 Angels said, ?O? Mary! Allah gives you the good news through a word from Him ; his name would be Christ Jesus, son of Mary, held in honor in this world and among the ones close to Me in the Hereafter.?
You will notice "and" which exist between the two first sentences of 37 and 4171 doesn't exist between "O? Mary! Allah gives you the good news through a word from Him" (and) "his name would be Christ Jesus, son of Mary, held in honor in this world and among the ones close to Me in the Hereafter"
kalima (fem, sing) / a word
Ismuhu (masc, sin) / his name refers to jesus
Marie
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Salaam Marie
I'm not sure if you're getting me, let's just take the first part of the sentence out and leave the second part in.
his name would be Christ Jesus, son of Mary, held in honor in this world and among the ones close to Me in the Hereafter.
How would someone understand this? His name would be Jesus Christ, who though?
Joe
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Salam Joe,
Salaam Marie
I'm not sure if you're getting me, let's just take the first part of the sentence out and leave the second part in.
his name would be Christ Jesus, son of Mary, held in honor in this world and among the ones close to Me in the Hereafter.
How would someone understand this? His name would be Jesus Christ, who though?
Joe
I'm not sure if I correctly understood your question.
I think, this is Allah who speaks in this sentence and not Angels. We can put a full stop between 1) and 2) instead of ; or
345 Angels said, ?O? Mary! Allah gives you the good news through a word from Him. His name would be Christ Jesus, son of Mary, held in honor in this world and among the ones close to Me in the Hereafter.?
I think Allah explains the news delivered to Mary through Angels since the sentence 2) until 346.
346 Talking to people while very young and in ripe old age in good health.?
Allah speaks also in 347
He said ?It is thus that God creates what He wills, when He decrees a command, He merely says to it ?Be?, and it is.?Marie
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Kyle,
Peace be upon you Zenje,
Yes, I agree with Yahud = guided, at this time.
I think "the guided ones" implies people whose hearts are wrapped, they have a philosophy that they blindly stick to. I do not see "the guided" as a group of people who belong to the jewish religion.
I came across this verse the other day, and wondered what you thought of it, and how it would fit with the definitions.
- Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Nazarene, but he was a monotheist who surrendered; he was not of those who set up partners.
- Ma kana ibraheemu yahoodiyyan wala nasraniyyan walakin kana haneefan musliman wama kana mina almushrikeena
Peace! )
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Peace be upon you Zenje,
I am not sure yet what to think, but that verse you gave loks like an excellent place to use as a barometer.
I am confortable right now with my understanding of yahood being "guided" in the sense that they think they are already guided and have locked thier hearts. I can understand Abraham not being described in that manner, but I cannot reason how Abraham could not be a helper.
Perhaps by helper, it is meant one who helps the yahood, or one who helps those who think they are guided.
I am just thinking out loud.
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Salam,
if someone wants to understand al-nasary as "the helpers" then he/she must explain 930
the helpers said The Messiah is God's son???
doesn't sound logical, does it? We know already that the christians say it, but to generalize and say that those who help others say it, seems streched
Best regards,
sabo -
Peace be upon you Sabo,
I can understadn your doubts about that, but we have to remember the context of the "helper". It is not stated WHO the "helpers" are helping.
In my brainstorming, I suggest that they might be helpers of those who consider themselves guided, its like the blind(yahood) leading the blind(nasara). The God says those closest to the submitters are those who call themselves "nasara". I would say that is because they are at least WILLING to be shown some evidence, UNLIKE the yahood who are stubborn to new understanding.
Please think on this Sabo and let me know if it is at least a possibility at this time.