What to say on the food?
-
Peace everyone. Paradox Uncreated it does seem quite picky. I hope it's ok to say Bismillah as even my children do it. It's also something I enjoy because it means a lot to me to think of God before eating.
The believers who intend to follow the Koran alone have a change to check if the traditions that have emerged during the years are correct or not.
The usage of saying -bismiLlah- without being directly inspirated by our Creator seems not to be based on the Koran, it literally means that one speaks or acts -in the name of God-It is very easy to say a name of God on the food according to verse 6118, while saying grace to God before the meal.
Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
-
The believers who intend to follow the Koran alone have a change to check if the traditions that have emerged during the years are correct or not.
The usage of saying -bismiLlah- without being directly inspirated by our Creator seems not to be based on the Koran, it literally means that one speaks or acts -in the name of God-It is very easy to say a name of God on the food according to verse 6118, while saying grace to God before the meal.
Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
Salaam Truthseeker. Couldn't I argue though that to say "in the name of God" is simply a way of saying Gods name on the food. I don't take it to mean that I am acting for God. Or am I missing a point. ???
-
Salaam Truthseeker. Couldn't I argue though that to say "in the name of God" is simply a way of saying Gods name on the food. I don't take it to mean that I am acting for God. Or am I missing a point. ???
Salaam Rana
Verse 6118 tells the believers to mention the name of Allah on the food, according to this verse we have to choose one of the names of God.
Following verse shows that there is a difference between the word Allah and the name of Allah.208 - Allah, there is no god but He, to Him are the beautiful names. -
We can say for instance ar-Rahman ? the Gracious, ar-Razzaq ? the Provider on the food while saying grace to God for the food.
According to the Koran the prophets and messengers said or wrote -bismiLlah- as can be seen in verses 1141 and 2730.
The chapters of the Koran are marked by -bismiLlah-.
So it seems that these words mean that one acts, speaks or writes in the name of God - it is the seal of Godly inspiration, as a contrast to the private words or acts.
The common practice to say -in the name of God- for instance when one enters a house is not found in the Koran and seems not to be the appropriate way to remember God, since it literally means to act in the name of God - that could only be by Godly inspiration.Probably this habit of saying -in the name of- was taken over from the christian religion, in which it is common to ask God in the name of Jesus.
Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
-
Salaam bro,
Salaam brother
There seem to be two rulings
-
The one who slaughters (or may be milks) the animal should mention the name of God over the living animal - verse 2234.
-
The one who eats any food (meat, fish, bread, fruit, vegetables etc.) should mention the name of God over the food - verse 6118, 6121.
In verses 6118 and 6121 eating in general is mentioned not only the eating of meat.
Preferable to be safe than sorry.There is only one ruling brother, not two. All aayaats quoted above refers to the same.
Please note that 2234 asks the person who slaughter to take Allah's name on it. And 6118 and 6121 is also referring to that person who slaughtered, if the name of Allah is taken , then eat, or else don't eat.
You will not find even a single aayat asking you take Allah's name ON FOOD before you eat, but Allah's name has to be taken before slaughter ON ANIMAL.
May Allah guide us all to His only path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
-
wasalaam Truthseeker. Thanks for your reply. It actually does make more sense when you used the example of Bismillah at the start of each surah of Quran. Hmm. So what about the longer version of 'Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem'? Would it suffice?
Salaam Rana,
I still would advice to avoid saying the words -bismiLlah-, since these words imply that one is inspirated by God to speak in His name.
According to the Koran - this is what prophets and messengers did.Ar-Rahman and ar-Raheem are both examples of names/attributes of Allah and could be used.
It might be good to say after the name a sentence to thank God for the food - since God tells the believers to be thankful to Him, as for instance in verse 3112.For instance
Rahman/Gracious, we thank You for the food that You have provided us with.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
-
There is only one ruling brother, not two. All aayaats quoted above refers to the same.
Please note that 2234 asks the person who slaughter to take Allah's name on it. And 6118 and 6121 is also referring to that person who slaughtered, if the name of Allah is taken , then eat, or else don't eat.
You will not find even a single aayat asking you take Allah's name ON FOOD before you eat, but Allah's name has to be taken before slaughter ON ANIMAL.
Salaam brother
I understand your point of view, but for now I do not agree.
Verse 6118 - So eat from that on which God's name has been mentioned, if you indeed acknowledge His signs. -
The verse does not specify the order to mention the name of God on the food only to the eating of meat.
When only the meat of the livestock would be meant - then one can ask why the words -meat from the livestock- are not used in this verse.
This verse seems to tell that before one eats something, the name of God should be mentioned on it.The order of verse 6118 helps the believers to remember God regularly throughout the day - added to the daily -salat-, verse 3341.
As said before - it is preferable to be safe than to be sorry.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
-
To me "say the name of God"can just mean one thing, and that is bismillah. However maybe a better translation would be "proclaim the name of God".
-
Salaam brother TS171,
Salaam brother
I understand your point of view, but for now I do not agree.
Verse 6118 - So eat from that on which God's name has been mentioned, if you indeed acknowledge His signs. -
The verse does not specify the order to mention the name of God on the food only to the eating of meat.
When only the meat of the livestock would be meant - then one can ask why the words -meat from the livestock- are not used in this verse.
This verse seems to tell that before one eats something, the name of God should be mentioned on it.The order of verse 6118 helps the believers to remember God regularly throughout the day - added to the daily -salat-, verse 3341.
As said before - it is preferable to be safe than to be sorry.For the highlighted part above, there are two reasons
1- "Zukira" and "Lam Yuzkari" are the words used in 6118 and 6121, that both word are not referring to the eater in anyways, "zukira" means "has been taken/remembered " and "lam yuzkari" means "has not been taken/remembered ".
2- It always refers to the meat, not to other food, fruits or vegetables. If it refers to all types of foods, then it will really gonna be a problem. In India in almost everywhere, they cut their fruits, vegetables, etc. by doing some idol worship, and it is supplied to the world.
Remember, Allah is aware of all this, so, AlQuraan states
6141
6141 And He is the One Who initiated gardens; both trellised and untrellised; and palm trees, and plants, all with different taste; and olives and pomegranates, similar and not similar. Eat from its fruit when it blossoms and give its due on the day of harvest; and do not waste. He does not like the wasteful.AlQuraan states of giving its due when you cut on the day of harvest, but DID NOT asked to take/remember the Name of Allah on it on the day of harvest. This may help you understand that taking Allah's name is limited to the animals only.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother
You have an interesting approach on this subject, but I did not find proof enough to see your way of reading the relevant verses as binding.
For the highlighted part above, there are two reasons
1- "Zukira" and "Lam Yuzkari" are the words used in 6118 and 6121, that both word are not referring to the eater in anyways, "zukira" means "has been taken/remembered " and "lam yuzkari" means "has not been taken/remembered ".
I agree with you that the wording -zukira- and -lam yuzkari- of verses 6118 and 6121 is rather indirect, but I do not share the point of view that this would mean that those words are not referring to the eater.
- The eater can mention the name of God on the food before the actual moment of eating.
- When believers eat together, one person can mention the name of God on the food, by this way the name of God is mentioned on the food also for the others.
The words -meat from the live-stock- (that would refer to verse 2234) are absent in verses 6118 and 6121 - so there is not a 100 percent certain linkage with verse 2234.
2- It always refers to the meat, not to other food, fruits or vegetables. If it refers to all types of foods, then it will really gonna be a problem. In India in almost everywhere, they cut their fruits, vegetables, etc. by doing some idol worship, and it is supplied to the world.
6145 - Say, "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood poured forth, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God." Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Compassionate. -
This verse is mainly about the regulation on eating meat, but the words -what is corruptly dedicated to other than God- seems to refer to the food in general.
Because of this verse I would avoid to eat for instance rice or an apple that comes from an altar for an idol.Accidents may happen, also when one eats meat one can not be 100 percent sure if the name of an idol has been mentioned over the animal, unless one has been in 100% control over the total proces of farming and slaughtering. But if we know or should know - then there is a responsibility to avoid this food.
Remember, Allah is aware of all this, so, AlQuraan states
6141
6141 And He is the One Who initiated gardens; both trellised and untrellised; and palm trees, and plants, all with different taste; and olives and pomegranates, similar and not similar. Eat from its fruit when it blossoms and give its due on the day of harvest; and do not waste. He does not like the wasteful.AlQuraan states of giving its due when you cut on the day of harvest, but DID NOT asked to take/remember the Name of Allah on it on the day of harvest. This may help you understand that taking Allah's name is limited to the animals only.
The mentioning of the name of God is not due on products that are being harvested,
That does not mean that the name of God should not be mentioned on them before they are eaten.
In in my opinion the name of God has to be mentioned on the food in general, also on the meat, even when one is 100% sure that before the slaughtering the name has been mentioned on the living animal.
This seems to be the safest way of reading verse 6118.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
-
Salaam brother,
I agree with you that the wording -zukira- and -lam yuzkari- of verses 6118 and 6121 is rather indirect, but I do not share the point of view that this would mean that those words are not referring to the eater.
- The eater can mention the name of God on the food before the actual moment of eating.
- When believers eat together, one person can mention the name of God on the food, by this way the name of God is mentioned on the food also for the others.
You agree with the words that I gave you from the aayaats, but how can I agree with you without any word or an aayat? You made two points above , but your point is NOT clear enough as I made my point brother. Please think about it, what could be the purpose of saying something indirect in 6118 and 6121 instead of saying it straight away.
The words -meat from the live-stock- (that would refer to verse 2234) are absent in verses 6118 and 6121 - so there is not a 100 percent certain linkage with verse 2234.
2461 is a big aayat about food and eating in our relatives and friends houses, but "eating only halaal" is absent in this aayat, so what does it mean? Can we eat even if they cook pork?
There are always relations in between aayaats, you have to relate each one with another in appropriate way with the SAME usage of words in the aayaats.
6145 - Say, "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood poured forth, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God." Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Compassionate. -
This verse is mainly about the regulation on eating meat, but the words -what is corruptly dedicated to other than God- seems to refer to the food in general.
Because of this verse I would avoid to eat for instance rice or an apple that comes from an altar for an idol.Do you think it is possible? We have already taken a try on this, it is impossible to find any food in my place that comes without idol worship . And it is not possible for every single person to grow and harvest his own food and Allah knows this all. By His grace and blessing, he never prohibit other food except animals if Allah's name is not taken on it.
Accidents may happen, also when one eats meat one can not be 100 percent sure if the name of an idol has been mentioned over the animal, unless one has been in 100% control over the total proces of farming and slaughtering. But if we know or should know - then there is a responsibility to avoid this food.
Please read 72 and 202
The mentioning of the name of God is not due on products that are being harvested,
That does not mean that the name of God should not be mentioned on them before they are eaten.
In in my opinion the name of God has to be mentioned on the food in general, also on the meat, even when one is 100% sure that before the slaughtering the name has been mentioned on the living animal.
This seems to be the safest way of reading verse 6118.Please answer me for the highlighted part above. How did you get to that conclusion? We are not allowed to put words in the mouth of Allah nor we can correct what is said in AlQuraan brother. He knows everything and clearly mentioned everything separately. Please think about it, we cannot twist the words of AlQuraan to fit our understanding, but we have to agree with what is already said, whether we like it or not, we have to agree.
Brother, please relate all the aayaats under discussion and think on it.
May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother
You agree with the words that I gave you from the aayaats, but how can I agree with you without any word or an aayat? You made two points above , but your point is NOT clear enough as I made my point brother. Please think about it, what could be the purpose of saying something indirect in 6118 and 6121 instead of saying it straight away.
Having read the relevant verses, I do not share your approach that the indirect wording of verses 6118 and 6121 only could imply that they can not refer to the eaters themselves and can refer only to the moment of slaughtering the animal.
As said before, I miss in this verse the wording - the meat of the live-stock as is mentioned in verse 2234. The subject of verses 6118 and 6121 seems to be eating in general.
The purpose of the indirect wording might be - that the name of God can be mentioned over the food by one person for a whole group before the actual moment of eating - as a form of grace for the food that is provided by the Creator.2461 is a big aayat about food and eating in our relatives and friends houses, but "eating only halaal" is absent in this aayat, so what does it mean? Can we eat even if they cook pork?
There are always relations in between aayaats, you have to relate each one with another in appropriate way with the SAME usage of words in the aayaats.The subject of verse 2461 is that believers may eat with family or friends, there is not a restriction that they have to be muslims.
The issue is not the type of food that is allowed - the restrictions on food remain valid for muslims - except in case one is forced, verse 53.
From this I see no binding linkage between verse 6118 and verse 2234.Do you think it is possible? We have already taken a try on this, it is impossible to find any food in my place that comes without idol worship . And it is not possible for every single person to grow and harvest his own food and Allah knows this all. By His grace and blessing, he never prohibit other food except animals if Allah's name is not taken on it.
The food that is dedicated to an idol is forbidden according to verse 53.
I can not know the circumstances that you are in - but it seems not to be a problem when idol-worshippers harvest any food - as long it has not been dedicated to an idol by bringing it on an altar.
It depends on the definition of -being dedicated to-.
As there is commercial agriculture by idolworshippers - also the harvest of the idolworshippers can be -halal- to eat.
But if for instance the fruit is picked especially to be dedicated to an idol and one knows or should know this - it is adviced not to eat it because of verse 53. According to the same verse, in case of force majeure one can be forgiven.Quote
The mentioning of the name of God is not due on products that are being harvested,
That does not mean that the name of God should not be mentioned on them before they are eaten.
In in my opinion the name of God has to be mentioned on the food in general, also on the meat, even when one is 100% sure that before the slaughtering the name has been mentioned on the living animal.
This seems to be the safest way of reading verse 6118. end quotePlease answer me for the highlighted part above. How did you get to that conclusion? We are not allowed to put words in the mouth of Allah nor we can correct what is said in AlQuraan brother. He knows everything and clearly mentioned everything separately. Please think about it, we cannot twist the words of AlQuraan to fit our understanding, but we have to agree with what is already said, whether we like it or not, we have to agree.
Without twisting any word - I read in verse 6118 that the believer is only allowed to eat something on which the name of God has been mentioned.
That is the literal reading of the verse - for now I see not enough evidence to narrow this verse to the eating of meat of the live-stock.In this case, as said before, it seems to be better to be safe than sorry - it is not hard at all to mention the name of God on any food. It can be a good part of saying grace for the food.
Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
-
Salaam brother truthseeker171,
Only one question for you.
The subject of verse 2461 is that believers may eat with family or friends, there is not a restriction that they have to be muslims.
The issue is not the type of food that is allowed - the restrictions on food remain valid for muslims - except in case one is forced, verse 53.How can you relate this? Please clarify. "The restrictions on food remain valid for muslims" This part is absent in 2461, so, you have to relate it with other aayaats, in the same way there is a relation between 6118 and 2234 because both the aayaats talks about "taking the name of Allah". As said before 6141 never asked us of taking the name of Allah while harvest or on food.
Besides this I think we should agree to disagree without offend because...
548
548 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what Allah has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and if Allah had willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To Allah you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.May Allah guide us all to His true path and increase us in our knowledge pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam brother
How can you relate this? Please clarify. "The restrictions on food remain valid for muslims" This part is absent in 2461, so, you have to relate it with other aayaats, in the same way there is a relation between 6118 and 2234 because both the aayaats talks about "taking the name of Allah". As said before 6141 never asked us of taking the name of Allah while harvest or on food.
Verses 6118 and 2234 both contain the subject of mentioning the name of God, but they are about two different occasions, the mentioning of the Name over the food in general and the mentioning of the Name over the still living animal that is going to be slaughtered.
Verse 2461 and for instance verse 53 have different subjects, the company of the eater and the regulation of the food itself. I do not follow your reasoning that the fact that the regulation of the food remains valid for the believers also if one eats with persons with other food-regulations, that this would cause a binding linkage between verses 6118 and 2234.
Besides this I think we should agree to disagree without offend because...
548
548 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what Allah has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and if Allah had willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To Allah you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.This verse is rather about the differences between the peoples of the earlier books and the followers of the Koran - regarding also verse 543 until 547.
May be we disagree on this subject - but I still advice to mention the name of God over any food - not only over the meat from the live-stock.
This seems to be according to the most literal way of reading verse 6118.
It is not hard to do and it is adviced by the Koran to remember God often - verse 3341.Peace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.