New Salat Article
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Peace,
Sure...2458 speaks of the times of restriction as the subject matter. The issue of 'holding the salat' is not adressing the people (whereas it is adressing the prophet in 11114 and 177.
Interesting point, but then it would mean that only a fraction of the Quran would be adressing the people and the rest would be adressing the prophet only. Count how many times "O you who believe" appears in the Quran with a commandment after it vs. the times of just a commandment without "O you who believe". I dont think the point is valid, but it is an interesting observation.
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When Noah said " My Lord I have " called on ( duaa) " my people night and day." Does that mean he " prayed to" his pelple night and day? Al-Salat = " the prayers." peace
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Also why prostrate? The answer is you prostrate to show God that you have worshiped Him and the prostraters are also used by God to enrage the rejecters...
And I have been blessed with many salats/ I keep up the prayers/ or assembly every dawn and dusk, except what God wills...
" Keep the prayers "
peace
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Peace,
I like that Mr. Wallace. I only pray twice a day, and sometimes I prostrate and sometimes I don't. Feel kneeling or bowing is enough, but more is not bad. Al-Salaat does = prayers. Thanks for the good Quranic example of the use of da'aa. It's common sense for those of us who take Classical Arabic for it's real meanings and don't try to re-invent meanings by guessing at contexts. So again thanks for your solid observations.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
I like that Mr. Wallace. I only pray twice a day, and sometimes I prostrate and sometimes I don't. Feel kneeling or bowing is enough, but more is not bad. Al-Salaat does = prayers. Thanks for the good Quranic example of the use of da'aa. It's common sense for those of us who take Classical Arabic for it's real meanings and don't try to re-invent meanings by guessing at contexts. So again thanks for your solid observations.
Godbless,
AnwarPraise be to God, and peace be upon you ... peace
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Salam Wakas,
Just to continue the issue that was discussed on the other thread...
3 Salat times
- Fajr (mentioned by name 245
- Wusta (mentioned by name in 223
- Isha (mentioned by name 245
The timing for each is as follows
- Fajr - edge of the day (as the name imples, the breaking of dawn) - 11114. Timing lasts until the sun rises.
- Wusta - 2nd edge of the day (noon), further clarified by the "dulook/zenith" of the sun - 11114, 1778. Timing lasts until early evening/darkness.
- Isha - early part of the night (as the name implies) - 11114. Timing lasts until deep darkness.
Regards,
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peace Layth,
Thanks for clarifying.
For your view to hold
- you consider the zenith of the sun to be an edge of the day (I dont think anyone would subjectively call this an edge of the day, in fact, I would be very surprised if you asked anyone "how many edges of the day are there? and they mentioned the zenith, or more than two etc)
- you do not consider the sun setting to be an edge of the day, thus would have to explain why the sun rising is considered an edge and not the latter. I personally cannot see how this can be answered well.
- "and the near/adjacent parts of the night" suggest they are in relation to the two edges just mentioned due to the use of "near/adjacent", whilst your interpretation does not.
- you take 1778 to state a time-range (which you take as "wusta" and interpret that to mean one does it anytime in this time-range (I assume) even though the verse does not say such a thing
- you are forced to take "wusta salat" to last until "darkness/ghasaq of the night" as per 1778 but this results in a contradiction in your view for the "isha salat" timing which you state "lasts until deep darkness". This is impossible unless you can clarify the difference between "ghasaq/darkness of the night" and "deep darkness" from The Quran.
Let me know your thoughts.
As a side note, I personally studied salat timings in exhaustive detail and read many articles promoting various views and the most solid answer by far was two, or I should say "a minimum of two".
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Thanks Wakas for the link.
Peace Layth
In the Quran the fajr and isha salat and the night salat are described quite specifically with relation to their timing.
Wusta means middle. Middle is not a time period of a day. Your timing of Wusta is your opinion without support from the Quran. The timing you specify, is not middle of day.
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Salam Layth
Excuse me for jumping into this thread again.
I just noticed verse 2458, in which salat fajr and isha are mentioned by name, designates the time period you have specified for salat al wusta as the time for resting. It seem quite unlikely if there was a salat around noon, the Quran would have given priority for mentioning "taking your clothes off and resting" over describing the salat during that period.
Again like to remind you wusta/middle is not a time period of a day. While the Quran seem quite accurate/detailed in specifying time periods for 3 other salat ( fajr , isha and additional night salat in 1779) will it casually mention "middle" for the most crucial salat ?
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Salam Wakas,
Thanks for the reminder )
For your view to hold
- you consider the zenith of the sun to be an edge of the day (I dont think anyone would subjectively call this an edge of the day, in fact, I would be very surprised if you asked anyone "how many edges of the day are there? and they mentioned the zenith, or more than two etc)
The Qur'an confirms that the day has more than 2 "parts/edges".
20130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and during
the night glorify; and at various parts (atraaf) of the day perhaps you may be content.Therefore, the statement that a part other than dawn/dusk is a "part" is completely correct.
- you do not consider the sun setting to be an edge of the day, thus would have to explain why the sun rising is considered an edge and not the latter. I personally cannot see how this can be answered well.
That is an incorrect asumption. The setting/dusk is a part/edge, just like dawn is a part/edge. What I am saying is that, according to the Quran, there are more than 2 such parts - which makes 11114 show in a different light.
- "and the near/adjacent parts of the night" suggest they are in relation to the two edges just mentioned due to the use of "near/adjacent", whilst your interpretation does not.
The 2 parts/edges are independant from the near/early night in the verse - so to relate them is an assumption.
- you take 1778 to state a time-range (which you take as "wusta" and interpret that to mean one does it anytime in this time-range (I assume) even though the verse does not say such a thing
The verse says "till" which is not the case with the other 2 Salat times given. So, you have x till y in the verse - that is a time range.
- you are forced to take "wusta salat" to last until "darkness/ghasaq of the night" as per 1778 but this results in a contradiction in your view for the "isha salat" timing which you state "lasts until deep darkness". This is impossible unless you can clarify the difference between "ghasaq/darkness of the night" and "deep darkness" from The Quran.
The contradiction comes from mistranslation. Ghasaq is not "darkness" of the night, but "darkenning" which is the area of twilight. The Isha Salat is the early part of the night - total dark being night.
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Salam Warner,
I just noticed verse 2458, in which salat fajr and isha are mentioned by name, designates the time period you have specified for salat al wusta as the time for resting. It seem quite unlikely if there was a salat around noon, the Quran would have given priority for mentioning "taking your clothes off and resting" over describing the salat during that period.
Again like to remind you wusta/middle is not a time period of a day. While the Quran seem quite accurate/detailed in specifying time periods for 3 other salat ( fajr , isha and additional night salat in 1779) will it casually mention "middle" for the most crucial salat ?
The "resting" you refer to has no contradiction at all when you see that the Wusta Salat can be held from noon-dusk. Thus, if the Quran linked it with noon, then the range that has been given fades away in relevance. The Wusta is the middle of the 2 Salat's, not the middle of the day.
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Peace,
I'm about 8 years late to the party, but just out of curiosity, are the views in the original post still upheld by anyone here including Layth? Or have they since changed? I'm only inquiring as I see the salat articles are all back to a physical daily act, unless I'm not seeing this one there and more people have contributed their views since.
Just wondering where people stand, that's all.
May peace be with you all.
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Salam,
I'm about 8 years late to the party, but just out of curiosity, are the views in the original post still upheld by anyone here including Layth? Or have they since changed? I'm only inquiring as I see the salat articles are all back to a physical daily act, unless I'm not seeing this one there and more people have contributed their views since.
My view on Salat has always been that it is physical. The only change on the article at the begining of this thread is with regards to the timing - I had incorrectly assumed the Quran spoke of 2 times, when a more careful look shows 3 (the error was mainly in assuming the day only had 2 parts/edges).
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Peace,
I'm about 8 years late to the party, but just out of curiosity, are the views in the original post still upheld by anyone here including Layth? Or have they since changed? I'm only inquiring as I see the salat articles are all back to a physical daily act, unless I'm not seeing this one there and more people have contributed their views since.
Just wondering where people stand, that's all.
May peace be with you all.
happened to me the same
the 1st post was great, made perfect sense, and it s exactly what i think, but than i see different posts , in the 1st post salat isn't a ritual at all, but than it sounds like a ritual
well, salat isn't a ritual at all, that is my conviction. and salat to me is where we see the senat arguing about the problems of the nation. remarq that in the muslim countries, the mosques are full of believers in the salat rituals, and the senats/congresses the rooms are empty of deputies /representatives/congressmen, while full of a few corrupt people, who ignore that, it is the real salat they are using to serve westerners and to opress their own people.
I believe this was the whole point of making the Salat a religious rituel, and it was invented by westerners frensh?british when they destroyed the largest muslim empire in history, they did it so never muslims serve their copuntries and their people , and thus, looses salat -
That is an incorrect asumption. The setting/dusk is a part/edge, just like dawn is a part/edge. What I am saying is that, according to the Quran, there are more than 2 such parts - which makes 11114 show in a different light.
This is an incorrect assumption. In Arabic plural can be used for dual as you can see here in "qolubukoma" where qolub is plural despite that it is talking about two entities and would have normally been "qalbykoma".
There are many other examples.
Peace,
Ayman
