78:33 Full breasted women vs grapes
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Im sorry Khalil, but that is a horrible way of looking at it. Things of such beatiful nature are so much more than their separate individual partial functions or the sum of them. It would be like defining our feelings and personalities and eventually our very souls as functions of a chemical balance of seratonin, tryptizol, haldol and whatnot...
The Qur?aan is my authority. When it comes to religious guidance and FACT-findings, I do compare everything with The Qur?aan. If I find my comparison compatible with The Qur?aan I go another step forward. Otherwise I discard it.
By the same token, I?ve not been able to find anything in The Qur?aan leading me to conclude that, in the Hereafter/AL?AAKHIRAH, there is going to be MARRIAGE, as in between a man and a woman/NIKAAHH, which leads to CHILD BEARING/REPRODUCTION, the direct consequence of SEXUAL ACTIVITY.
On the other hand, when I study the EVOLUTIONARY CREATION regarding the history of life on Earth in comparison with the Qur?aanic verses, I find them compatible and quite logical.
All I?m trying to get across is that according to The Qur?aan the natural laws governing this very present UNIVERSE seem to be quite different from the UPCOMING NEW UNIVERSE which brings about the LAST DAY/YAWMUL ?AKHIR.
Peace,
Khalil -
All nouns in Arabic are either feminine or masculine. That doesn't mean that they are either woman or man. Countless nouns are not even the names of living things.
Peace,
KhalilI did not say "noun". I said "Pronoun". Pronouns are definite, signifying known object and person in the text. No one says that "dolls are made virgins".
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I did not say "noun". I said "Pronoun". Pronouns are definite, signifying known object and person in the text. No one says that "dolls are made virgins".
I know what you said. Pronouns are used for nouns. Feminine pronouns are used for feminine nouns and masculine ones for masculine nouns. I know that "VIRGINITY" is usually used for the living, especially for humans. On the other hand use of feminine pronoun does not indicate that the subject must necessarily be a WOMAN.
Peace,
Khalil -
Greetings and Peace, all group
Please look at the highlighted text
1335 The example of the Paradise which the righteous are promised, is that rivers flow beneath it, and its provisions are continuous as is its shade. Such is the abode of those who were righteous, while the abode of the rejecters is the Fire.
4715 Is the example of the Paradise; that the righteous have been promised with rivers of pure water, and rivers of milk whose taste does not change, and rivers of wine that are delicious for the drinkers, and rivers of strained honey, and for them in it are all kinds of fruits, and a forgiveness from their Lord; like that of those who abide in the Fire, and are given to drink boiling water that cuts-up their intestines?
Paradise will have neither grapes nor full breasted women, ISA. We are given the ~example~ of Paradise only in terms that we can understand. AQ states "example" so that we know that the information is not literal. Paradise is a "good" place to be and hell is a "bad" place to be is the gist of the matter. The specifics are not for our knowledge, except as ALLAH allows.
May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
Thank you so much for your post. I went through my Qur'an this weekend and I was reading those two verses you quoted as well as a few other. It seems only in that place is where they speak of this. I don't know Arabic so I may never know the true meaning, but I striving to.
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I would vey much still like to have sexual contact with my would be spouse, in heaven. Sex is not a bad dirty thing. It is in fact a very "sacred and holy" act, if done right. Its because of this that it is so easy to corrupt into being something truly dirty, the mere contrast of what it can become compared to what it ACTUALLY is.
It is a wonderful expression of love and true intimacy, a lovely gift from God to us. People usually dont have sex with the intention of reproduction. A lot of times though the intentions truly are far away from being pure.This is exactly WHY, I find it hurtful and I am trying to sort it out. I want to be with my husband. We have a beautiful and what I consider sacred sharing in love making. Why on earth IF it was say in heaven would I want any other "thing" joining in our blessed union? There is not need to support widows with children. There is not need for reproduction. The sins of lust, hate, anger, jealous and all other nasty things are removed. Either way, thank you all for helping shed some light on this verse. You have no idea how much it is appreciated!
I think the term "virgin" is to show innocence/purity. I have extra virgin olive oil in my kitchen, but that does not mean we are trying to have sex with it. Virgin and sex do not always go together. Are you telling me the Virgin Maryam will be deflowered in heaven? I don't even wanna go there....lol
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Salam,
On the question of 7833, the determining factor was the context (gardens and grapes vines 7832, then a cup full to drink 7834) then we get two words "kawaib" and "atrab".
"atrab" is a word used to describe something that is ripe/mature (can be a person or a thing).
"kawaib" is used to describe things that pertrude (the ankle bone 56, the temple/shrine 597) - so, in this case "what do gardens with grapevines in them have which is pertruding and mature and which makes a full cup?" - answer grape bunches.
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Salam,
On the question of 7833, the determining factor was the context (gardens and grapes vines 7832, then a cup full to drink 7834) then we get two words "kawaib" and "atrab".
"atrab" is a word used to describe something that is ripe/mature (can be a person or a thing).
"kawaib" is used to describe things that pertrude (the ankle bone 56, the temple/shrine 597) - so, in this case "what do gardens with grapevines in them have which is pertruding and mature and which makes a full cup?" - answer grape bunches.
I am sorry to say that Arabic does not permit this sort of methodology for translating and understanding its sentences. "kawaib" is feminine plural and has nothing to do with the immediately preceding word, which is masculine. Also in between is conjunction Waw.
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Salam, I remember when I first converted to Islam and I found out that men get all these wives as Wel as me. and the wives wnt get jealous cos they will b invisible to each Otha etc. I couldn't handle it... I didn't want to go to such a place. So I read the Quran more n more without the reliance on Hadith n found that this is not the way Allah describes paradise..but Muslim men.
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Salam Mazhar,
I am sorry to say that Arabic does not permit this sort of methodology for translating and understanding its sentences. "kawaib" is feminine plural and has nothing to do with the immediately preceding word, which is masculine. Also in between is conjunction Waw.
Arabic does permit what is being discussed. Firstly there are many words that depend on context to define them ("darab" is a great example as it can mean strike, put forth, seal, exit) Secondly the word Kawaib is indeed plural, but it is not nesesarily feminine (its singular is "kaab" which is masculine) - I beleieve you are assuming it is feminine based on Arabic dictionaries which define it as "a woman's breast" - this meaning for the word is never used or given in the Quran - thus reducing its plausibility. Thirdly "wa" is not always a conjunction, it can be used as a descriptive "haal".
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Salam Mazhar,
Arabic does permit what is being discussed. Firstly there are many words that depend on context to define them ("darab" is a great example as it can mean strike, put forth, seal, exit) Secondly the word Kawaib is indeed plural, but it is not nesesarily feminine (its singular is "kaab" which is masculine) - I beleieve you are assuming it is feminine based on Arabic dictionaries which define it as "a woman's breast" - this meaning for the word is never used or given in the Quran - thus reducing its plausibility. Thirdly "wa" is not always a conjunction, it can be used as a descriptive "haal".
And it is qualified by word . Can it be related to grapes?
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Salam Mazhar,
The qualification fits perfectly to the meaning chosen as the word "atraba" is "ripe/mature" which applies very well to the grape bunches that are being described and turned into a drink in the verse after (garden and grapes, grape bunches that are firm and ripe, a drink that is pleasing).
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Peace,
The qualification fits perfectly to the meaning chosen as the word "atraba" is "ripe/mature" which applies very well to the grape bunches that are being described and turned into a drink in the verse after (garden and grapes, grape bunches that are firm and ripe, a drink that is pleasing).
5636 so We have made them virgins, devoted, atrban (grapes?) for companions the right...
Would you want nicely breasted devoted virgins or grapes? ;D
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Peace,
5636 so We have made them virgins, devoted, atrban (grapes?) for companions the right...
Would you want nicely breasted devoted virgins or grapes? ;D
Depends on the person. 99% of women would take grapes and want their husbands to do the same. Or if I am to be this nicely breasted virgin, he better be this nicely well endowed devoted husband.
Again thank you all.
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Depends on the person. 99% of women would take grapes and want their husbands to do the same. Or if I am to be this nicely breasted virgin, he better be this nicely well endowed devoted husband.
Again thank you all.
Yes, atrban/well-matched indeed!
peace
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Peace be upon the believers,
May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.This is my belief based on study of the Quran, as to what happens in the Hereafter. Insha'Allah, I will provide proof to support why I believe what I believe.
We are taught in the Quran that we will be remade into a new creation - a creation we do not know
?That We may exchange the likes of you, and make you to grow again in a fashion you know not.? Surah 5661?And Allah caused you to grow out of the earth, then He shall return you into it, and bring you forth.? Surah 7117-18
Men and women are rewarded equally Surah 3195, 743, 972, 1697, 3335, 408, 5221
"Men and women who have surrendered, believing men and believing women, obedient men and obedient women, truthful men and truthful women, enduring men and enduring women, humble men and humble women, men and women who give in charity, men who fast and women who fast, men and women who guard their private parts, men and women who remember God oft -- for them God has prepared forgiveness and a mighty wage." Surah 3335?And their Lord answers them 'I waste not the labour of any that labours among you, be you male (dhakarin) or female (unthā -- the one of you is as the other. And those who emigrated, and were expelled from their habitations, those who suffered hurt in My way, and fought, and were slain -- them I shall surely acquit of their evil deeds, and I shall admit them to gardens underneath which rivers flow.' A reward from Allah! And Allah with Him is the fairest reward.? Surah 3195
?We shall strip away all rancour that is in their breasts; and underneath them rivers flowing; and they will say, 'Praise belongs to Allah, who guided us unto this; had Allah not guided us, we had surely never been guided. Indeed, our Lord's Messengers came with the truth.' And it will be proclaimed 'This is your Paradise; you have been given it as your inheritance for what you did.'? Surah 743
?And those who believed, and their seed followed them in belief, We shall join their seed with them, and We shall not defraud them of aught of their work; every person (im'ri-in) shall be pledged for what he earned (kasaba).? Surah 5221
We are promised to be with believing spouses and our children
"The gardens of perpetual abode which they will enter along with those who do good from among their parents and their spouses (wa-azwjihim) and their offspring; and the angels will enter in upon them from every gate" Surah 1323"Our Lord, and admit them to the Gardens of Eden that Thou hast promised them and those who were righteous of their fathers, and their spouses (wa-azwjihim), and their seed; surely Thou art the All-mighty, the All-wise." Surah 408
"'Enter Paradise, you and your spouses (wa-azwjukum), walking with joy!'" Surah 4370
?And those who believed, and their seed followed them in belief, We shall join their seed with them, and We shall not defraud them of aught of their work; every man shall be pledged for what he earned.? Surah 5221
Pure companions for men and women Surah 225, 315, 457, 1323, 3656, 408, 4370, 4454, 5220, 5556, 5572-74, 5622, 5635-37, 7833
?Say 'Shall I tell you of a better than that?' For those that are godfearing, with their Lord are gardens underneath which rivers flow, therein dwelling forever, and spouses (wa-azwjun) purified, and Allah's good pleasure. And Allah sees His servants.? Surah 315?See, the inhabitants of Paradise today are busy in their rejoicing, they and their spouses (wa-azwjuhum), reclining upon couches in the shade; therein they have fruits, and they have all that they call for.? Surah 3655-57
?Even so; and We shall espouse (wazawwajnhum*)them to wide-eyed beautiful ones.? Surah 4454
*Used to denote marriage for both genders; husband and wife. See Surah 2232, 2234, 6143, 26166, 581
Whatever they desire Surah 3657, 3934, 4131, 4222, 4371, 5035
Sex within marriage is a blessing from Allah. To say it is used only for reproduction is placing a restriction upon an act that Allah has not placed upon it. Sex with your spouse is enjoyable and does not produce an offspring every single time. Humans are one of the few beings who perform sexual congress for the purpose of enjoyment alone - an intimate bonding between two people. That is not to say we are to force our wives into performing this act, as Allah warns we will be called to account for our deeds on the Day of Judgment."Your women are a tillage for you; so come unto your tillage as you wish, and forward for your souls; and fear God, and know that you shall meet Him. Give thou good tidings to the believers." Surah 2223
"And of His signs is that He created for you, of yourselves, spouses (azwjan), that you might repose in them (sakana), and He has set between you love and mercy. Surely in that are signs for a people who consider." Surah 3021
"It is He who created you out of one living soul, and made of him his spouse (zawjahā that he might rest (liyaskuna) in her. Then, when he covered her, she bore a light burden and passed by with it; but when it became heavy they cried to God their Lord, 'If Thou givest us a righteous son, we indeed shall be of the thankful.'" Surah 7189
As for the contention of Surah 5636
"And We have made them virgins (abkran), devoted (uruban), equals in age (atrban)," Surah 5636-37(ib'kr) is used to denote morning - the beginning of a new day. Surah 341, 4055
This upholds the teaching we will be remade into a new creation.As a body-builder, I enjoy the pursuit of physical training and hope this will continue in the Hereafter. The word (kawib) is used to denote protrusion; both will be well-built in physique as men are rewarded equally with women.
"and splendid companions (wakawiba), like of age (atrban)," Surah 7833Before someone says 'That's an accusative feminine plural noun!', Allah makes it clear
"Those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding." Surah 3918Allah tells us men and women will be rewarded equally. If a male will be rewarded with a spouse of physical beauty, so too will a woman. As we will all be remade into a new creation, we will all be virgins. This upholds the teachings within the Quran and does not create a contradiction based on misinterpretation.
I view marriage as a union with someone in this life and in the Hereafter, not just this life. I hope to be reunited with my wife and enjoy Paradise with her. And I hope to enjoy the blessed union with her in Paradise as well. If it feels awesome here, I can only imagine what it will feel like in Paradise.And we will be reunited with spouses and children. To say there is no gender in the Quran I beg to ask why we will be given or with spouses in Paradise Surah 457
Study the Quran diligently and do not depend on my opinion. Allah is Guide, Friend to the believers.
Death is the road to awe.
Proof Hereafter
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pNxQRgnekk
Peace. -
Salam and Peace, everyone!
If, while reading Allah's Quran, we try to find our desires in It, we will never be able to get what Allah Wills us to get.
And if we submit to what Allah makes us understand, we will get The Core Message in Al-Quran.
With the Quranic concept of a young husband and a beautiful wife in the Paradise, indeed, there is Sex in it.
This is what Al-Quran makes you understand.-----"And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds, that for them are Gardens underneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit there from, they will say ?This is what we were provided with before,? and they will be given this in resemblance. And for them will be therein pure mates. And they will abide therein forever." (225)
Whatever Allah gives us in this worldly life,-------fruits, eatables, all sorts of bounties, husband, wife, sex,----the same will be given (better, in abundance, and forever) in the Paradise-----"they will say ?This is what we were provided with before,? and they will be given this in resemblance. And for them will be therein pure mates. And they will abide therein forever."
Indeed, a man will be a man with all manly qualities,-----and a woman will be a woman with all womanly qualities.
Who will hate this???
Okay I am trying to tackle an issue that frankly just pisses me off to no end, and as stated in my intro has pushed me very close to just living Islam.
I hope you are not going to leave Islam anymore.
