The judgement of Allah and his prophet at the one who rejects the Sunnah.

AbdAlRahman

All praise and thanks to Allah the exalted, the Lord of the universe, May the choicest blessings and peace of Allah be upon the last Messenger and Prophets, Muhammad, his family, Companions and all those who follow his footsteps till the end of this unive

No one is really following the Holy Quran if he isn't following the Sunnah, For a non Muslim to enter Islam, he has to testify that there is no god but Allah, and I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And if any one rejected the prophet on anything he said he became unbeliever and Non muslim.

Allah said

{ 7}

And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain from that.

But no, by thy Lord, they are not believres until they make thee judge in all that is in dispute between them and then find not in their hearts any demur concerning that which thou decidest and submit with full submission.

{ } (3) { } (4)
Nor does he speak out of his own desire.

It is nothing but pure revelation that has been revealed by God.

Their danger is more than Christians and Jewish, because when Christians and Jewish will speak about religion no one will follow them, but people like those some Muslims may be deceived by them.

Quranist are non Muslims, even if they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, because they didn't work with that, like the hypocrites, Allah said about them

When the hypocrites come to thee, they say, ?We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah.? And Allah knows that thou art indeed His Messenger, but Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.

They are liars, because if they believed in Allah they should follow and believe the messenger peace upon him

Paradox_Uncreated

You do not have the capacity to teach others about religion, Abd.
You showed this clearly in this thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602568.msg280842#msg280842

One day you qoute the Quran, and the next day it is wrong!
So either you have a very short attention span, or have no idea what your are saying.

And time and time again, we see from your posts that you have no idea what the quotes you are making, means.

You serve no other than, as an example, of how incoherent the mind of the hadithist is, and no-doubt is why he cannot see that hadithism is mindless aswell.

AbdAlRahman

Against who reject Sunna

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZS5zRy7mak

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=N46jnrP3JuU

Reported by Abu Dawud in "Sunnah"

{ } "

AbdurRahman ibn Amr as-Sulami and Hujr ibn Hujr said We came to Irbad ibn Sariyah who was among those about whom the following verse was revealed "Nor (is there blame) on those who come to thee to be provided with mounts, and when thou saidst "I can find no mounts for you."
We greeted him and said We have come to see you to give healing and obtain benefit from you.
Al-Irbad said One day the Apostle of Allah (sallalahu alayhi wa ala alihi wa salam) led us in prayer, then faced us and gave us a lengthy exhortation at which the eyes shed tears and the hearts were afraid.
A man said Apostle of Allah! It seems as if it were a farewell exhortation, so what injunction do you give us?
He then said I enjoin you to fear Allah, and to hear and obey even if it be an Abyssinian slave, for those of you who live after me will see great disagreement. You must then follow my sunnah and that of the rightly-guided caliphs. Hold to it and stick fast to it. Avoid novelties, for every novelty is an innovation, and every innovation is an error".

Narrators

Imam Abu Dawud reported this narration from Ahmad ibn Hanbal.
Abu Abbas Waleed ibn Moslem al-Qurashe ad-Dimashke.
Dhahabi said One of the scholars, and scholar of people of Sham (1).
Ijle and Yaqub ibn Shaybah said he was /thiqat/ (2).
Abu Muskhar said that Waleed some time use to make /tadlees/ from liars. But this narration he transmitted in ?hadathana? form.
Thuur ibn Yazeed.
Ibn Sad said he was /thiqat/ in hadith.
Ahmad ibn Saleeh said he was /thiqat/.
Yahya ibn Said said I haven?t seen anyone from Sham more /awthaq/ than Thuur ibn Yazeed.
Yahya ibn Main said he was /thiqat/ (3).
Khaleed ibn Madaan Abu Abdullah Shame.
Ijlee, Yaqub ibn Shayba, Muhammad ibn Sad, ibn Khirash, Nasai said he was /thiqat/ (4).
Abdurrahahman ibn Amr ibn Anbatha As-Sulame Ash-Shame.
Ibn Hibban mentioned him in ?Thiqat? (5).
Hujr ibn Hujr. I couldn?t find any kind of /jarh/ or /tadeel/ upon him. Ibn Hajar in ?Taqreeb? said this narrator is /maqbul/.
Irbad ibn Sariyah (may Allah be pleased with him)

Narration from ?Sunnan? Tirmizi #2676

Abu Isa At-Tirmizi said this narration is saheeh.

Narrators

Abul Hasan Ale ibn Hujr ibn Iyas ibn Muqateel al-Marwaze .
Nasai said /Thiqat mamoon al-hafidh/ (6).
Baqiyah ibn Waleed.
Buhari, Moslem, Tirmizi, Nasai, Abu Dawud and ibn Maja narrated from him.
Yaqub (ibn Shaybah) said Baqiyah /thiqat/ his narrations are good if he reported them from known people?.
Ibn Sad said ?/thiqat/ in his narration from truthful people, and weak in his narrations from weak one?.
Ijle said ?/Thiqat/ in narrations that he transmitted from known people, in those one that he narrated from unknown, he is nothing?.
Ibn Ade said ??in his narrations from people of Sham, he is upright..? (7).
Dhahabi said ?More than one fro imams said Baqiyah is /thiqat/ if he reported from truthful people?.
Nasai said ?If he transmitted narration in form ?it was reported to me? or ?it was narrated to me? then he is /thiqat/, but if he transmitted in ?from so and so? form, he isn?t /hujjah (.

Keeping in mind all opinions on Baqiyah from above, let us see from whom he transmitted this narration?

Buhayr ibn Sad.
Duhaym said he was /thiqat/ (9).
Ijle in ?Marifatul thuqat? #140 said Buhayr ibn Sad Shame-/thiqat/.
Ibn Abe Khateem reported from his father that Buhayr was /saleeh al-hadith/ (10).
Ibn Hibban mentioned Buhayr in ?Thuqat? (11).

So, Buhayr was trustworthy narrator from Sham. And as we seen from opinion of ulama, if Baqiyah reported from someone known and trustworthy from Sham, his narrations are good.

Again Khaleed ibn Madaan. We talked about him before.
Abdurrahman ibn Amr. We talked about him before.
Irbad ibn Sariyah (may Allah be pleased with him).

Narration from ?Sunnan? ibn Majah.

( &#1585 .

. . . . ( . . . . . . )

Narrators.

Abdullah ibn Ahmad ibn Zakoon ad-Dimashke.
Ibn Hibban mentioned him in ?Thuqat?. Yahya ibn Main said he?s not bad (12).
Waleed ibn Moslem. We talked about him before.
Abdullah ibn Ala ibn Zibb.
Dhahabi said Saduq, I don?t know any problem in him. Ibn Hazm said He was rated like weak by Yahya. I (Dhahabi) say He was relied upon by group expect Moslem? (13).
Ibn Hajar in ?Taqreeb? said Abdullah ibn Ala was /thiqat/.
Yahya ibn Abe Mataa (or Mutaa) al-Qurashe. Ibn Hajar said in ?Taqreeb? he was /saduq/, Duhaym pointed that his narrations from Irbad are /mursal/.
Irbad bn Sariyah (may Allah be pleased with him).

Narration from ?Musnad? imam Ahmad.

First 3 narrators are Abdullah ibn Ahmad, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Abdurrahman ibn Mahde.
All of them were top scholars of ahadeeth in their time.

Moawiyah ibn Saleeh.
Ibn Hajar said One of the scholars and judge of Andalus.
Abu Taleeb reported from imam Ahmad, and Jafar Taylase from ibn Muin, that they said regarding Moawiyah-/thiqat/.
Ibn Sad, Nasai, Ijle, Abu Zurah said he was /thiqat/ (14).
Damrah ibn Hubayb.
Ibn Muin and ibn Sad said /thiqat/. Ibn Hibban mentioned in ?Thuqat? (15).
Abdurrahman ibn Amr. We talked about him before.
Irbad ibn Sariyah (may Allah be pleased with him).

Narration from ?Sunnan? Darimi
95 -

Narrators

Abu Aseem Dahhak ibn Moslem ash-Shaybane.
Ibn Hajar in ?Taqreeb? said /Thiqat thabit/. Truthful and upright.
Thurr ibn Yazeed. 3) Khaleed ibn Madaan. 4) Abdurrahman ibn Amr. We talked about them.
Irbad ibn Sariyah (may Allah be pleased with him)

Wa Allahu Subhana wa Taala Alaam.

?Mizanul itidal? 4/347.
Mizzi ?Tahtheeb al kamal? 31/#6737.
Ibn Hajar ?Tahtheeb at tahtheeb? vol 2, p 30-31.
?Tahtheeb at tahtheeb? 3/p 103.
?Tahtheeb at tahtheeb? 6/216.
?Tahtheeb al kamal? 20/#4036
?Tahtheeb at tahtheeb? 1/416-417.
?Mizanul itidal? 1/#1250.
?Tahtheeb al kamal? 4/#642.
?Jarh wa tadeel? 2/412/#1625.
#6968. ?Darul Fikr? 1395 h.
?Tahtheeb al kamal? 14/#3155.
?Mizanul itidal? 2/#4466.
?Tahtheeb at tahtheeb? 10/p 189-190.
?Tahtheeb at tahtheeb? 4/ p403.

Wakas

whose "sunnah" are you referring to?

Bukhari's? Caliph Umar? Caliph Abu Bakr? Muhammad? Abraham? Moses? Shafi? etc.

or God's?

kgwithnob

Allah said

{ 7}

And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain from that.

But no, by thy Lord, they are not believres until they make thee judge in all that is in dispute between them and then find not in their hearts any demur concerning that which thou decidest and submit with full submission.

All the verses you have quoted above, plus all others that command the believers to FOLLOW the messenger, are all for the time when the Prophet Muhammad, pbuh, was still alive. How am I to follow a dead man, who once was a messenger of GOD, SWT, and who did deliver his message and completed his mission and NOW already dead for over 1400 years? Is it not the message and its delivery the whole purpose behind the Prophet's messenger-ship? Pbuh. Don't we have the perfect, complete, and the detailed message, The Qur'aan, readily available to us? You sectarians are lost completely. May GOD Almighty guide you all SECTARIANS, and us Muslims too, to His straight path and have mercy upon all of us. GOD WILLING.

Peace,
Khalil

mentallooser

All praise and thanks to Allah the exalted, the Lord of the universe, May the choicest blessings and peace of Allah be upon the last Messenger and Prophets, Muhammad, his family, Companions and all those who follow his footsteps till the end of this unive

No one is really following the Holy Quran if he isn't following the Sunnah, For a non Muslim to enter Islam, he has to testify that there is no god but Allah, and I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And if any one rejected the prophet on anything he said he became unbeliever and Non muslim.

Allah said

{ 7}

And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain from that.

But no, by thy Lord, they are not believres until they make thee judge in all that is in dispute between them and then find not in their hearts any demur concerning that which thou decidest and submit with full submission.

{ } (3) { } (4)
Nor does he speak out of his own desire.

It is nothing but pure revelation that has been revealed by God.

Their danger is more than Christians and Jewish, because when Christians and Jewish will speak about religion no one will follow them, but people like those some Muslims may be deceived by them.

Quranist are non Muslims, even if they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, because they didn't work with that, like the hypocrites, Allah said about them

When the hypocrites come to thee, they say, ?We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah.? And Allah knows that thou art indeed His Messenger, but Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.

They are liars, because if they believed in Allah they should follow and believe the messenger peace upon him

I don't see how anything in that entire post related to your point. Perhaps I am wrong though

Riz

I would take anything Muhammad gave me and do whatever he asked. Did he give us the hadith collections?

shadowpuppet

There is nothing in the Quran defining Sunnah as Hadith.

There couldn't possibly be because it wasn't even written at the time.
Neither was the Quran, for that matter.

People are very quick to judge Christians and others for their faith in a religion which has been tampered with through written word.
Islam is no exception to this danger.

To think that it is and to militantly follow people who do is not only dangerous. It's downright foolish.

TruthBehindIt

All praise and thanks to Allah the exalted, the Lord of the universe, May the choicest blessings and peace of Allah be upon the last Messenger and Prophets, Muhammad, his family, Companions and all those who follow his footsteps till the end of this unive

No one is really following the Holy Quran if he isn't following the Sunnah, For a non Muslim to enter Islam, he has to testify that there is no god but Allah, and I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And if any one rejected the prophet on anything he said he became unbeliever and Non muslim.

Allah said

{ 7}

And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain from that.

But no, by thy Lord, they are not believres until they make thee judge in all that is in dispute between them and then find not in their hearts any demur concerning that which thou decidest and submit with full submission.

{ } (3) { } (4)
Nor does he speak out of his own desire.

It is nothing but pure revelation that has been revealed by God.

Their danger is more than Christians and Jewish, because when Christians and Jewish will speak about religion no one will follow them, but people like those some Muslims may be deceived by them.

Quranist are non Muslims, even if they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, because they didn't work with that, like the hypocrites, Allah said about them

When the hypocrites come to thee, they say, ?We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah.? And Allah knows that thou art indeed His Messenger, but Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.

They are liars, because if they believed in Allah they should follow and believe the messenger peace upon him

Salam and Peace!

An Open Challenge!

Salam and Peace on you respected brother!

1)---Please, can you show me the word or terminology "Sunnatur Rasool" in Allah's Quran???

Take it as a challenge.---A brotherly challenge.

And if you can not show this terminology "Sunnatur Rasool" in Allah's Quran, then fear Allah, and don't invite people to what is not Approved and Authorized by Allah as Deen.

Show us Verse/Verses containing the word "Sunnatur Rasool".

================================================================================

Nowhere in Al-Quran, Allah commands us to follow the "Prophet's Sunnah" or "Sunnatur Rasool".
The words or terminology "Sunnatur Rasool" as such, can not be found in Al-Quran..

Allah's Commands us to follow His Exalted Quran. That's it.

-----"Follow (O mankind) that which has been sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any Awliyah (protecting friends). Little it is you remember." (73)

And Allah Commands

-----"Then if there comes to you A Guidance from Me, then whoever follows My Guidance, he will not astray, nor fall into misery. And whoever turns away from My Remembrance (Al-Quran), indeed then for him is a life of hardship, and We shall gather him on the The Judgement Day blind." (Tahaa-123,124)

So the Prophet himself followed nothing but The Guidance (Al-Quran) from Allah.

-----"Say (O Messenger) ?If I go astray, I shall stray only against myself, and if I am guided, so it is because of what my Lord has revealed to me. Indeed, He is Hearer, Near." (Saba-50)

Allah has Commanded us to Obey the Messenger.
Obey the Messenger in what???

Obey the Messenger in what he did.
He followed Al-Quran.
You also follow Al-Quran.-----This is "Obeying the Messenger".

The Messenger never established any "Sunnatur Rasool" at all.

So, we don't have to follow "Sunnatur Rasool". We have to follow Allah's Quran.

AbdAlRahman

The prophet peace upon him said

"I have left behind amongst you two things, the Book of Allaah and mySunnah, and they will not be separated from each other until you meetme at the Pond (al-Hawd) ."

Reported by Maalik in Kitaab al-Qadar (#1594) (only the first partof the hadeeth) and Haakim in Kitaab al-?Ilm (#319) Sheikh Al-Albaanee said Hasan in Manzilatu Sunnah fil-Islaam 1/18

These are they who lied against their Lord.? Now surely, the curse of Allah is on the unjust.

unknownuser

The prophet peace upon him said

"I have left behind amongst you two things, the Book of Allaah and mySunnah, and they will not be separated from each other until you meetme at the Pond (al-Hawd) ."

Reported by Maalik in Kitaab al-Qadar (#1594) (only the first partof the hadeeth) and Haakim in Kitaab al-?Ilm (#319) Sheikh Al-Albaanee said Hasan in Manzilatu Sunnah fil-Islaam 1/18

These are they who lied against their Lord.? Now surely, the curse of Allah is on the unjust.

Peace and greetings AbdAlRahman,

At the peril of your soul, post one hadith outside Qur'an you are 100% certain is from Allah?

Likewise, have you obeyed and killed all the dogs?

Hadith - Muslim, narrated Maymunah
One morning Allah's Messenger was silent with grief. Maymunah said Allah's Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah's Messenger saidGabriel had promised me that he would meet me last night, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises; and Allah's Messenger spent the day in this sad (mood). Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He gave an order and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it on the place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him You promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. So the very next morning he commanded the dogs to be killed. He announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog used for the protection of extensive fields (or big gardens).

Hadith - Bukhari 4448, Narrated Abu Talha
I heard Allah's Apostle saying; "Angels (of Mercy) do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being or an animal)."

Wakas

The prophet peace upon him said

"I have left behind amongst you two things, the Book of Allaah and mySunnah, and they will not be separated from each other until you meetme at the Pond (al-Hawd) ."

Reported by Maalik in Kitaab al-Qadar (#1594) (only the first partof the hadeeth) and Haakim in Kitaab al-?Ilm (#319) Sheikh Al-Albaanee said Hasan in Manzilatu Sunnah fil-Islaam 1/18

These are they who lied against their Lord.? Now surely, the curse of Allah is on the unjust.

You do realise that in the prophet's last sermon, witnessed by thousands apparently, there are 3 versions

i leave you with quran
i leave you with quran and sunna
i leave you with quran and ahl-ul-bayt

Do some research.
Advocates of hadith simply pick and choose whatever suits their views. This is blatant.

Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the book fully clarified? Those whom We have given the book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt. And the word of your Lord is completed with truth and justice, there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower. And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and they themselves do nothing but guess.

God puts forth the example of a man who has for his masters several partners that dispute with each other, and a man depending wholly upon one man. Are they the same? Praise be to God; most of them do not know. Surely, you will die, and they will die. Then, on the Day of Resurrection, you will quarrel at your Lord. Who then is more wicked than one who lies about God, and denies the truth when it comes to him? Is there not in Hell an abode for those who deny the truth?

So in what hadith after this will they believe?

BornAgain

Salaam AbdAlRahman,

Most of your "evidence" is invalid. You know well that many of us reject the divinity of the hadiths, and you'll be hard-pressed to make a solid argument by using hadiths. As per the verses that you quoted in regards to "obeying the messenger", well which messenger exactly? Moses? 'Isa? Muhammad? Ishaq? The fact that the Qur'aan does not single out the name Muhammad, is because it focuses more on the message that a messenger conveys. Also, I do not recall any Qur'aanic verses that claim 250 years after the Qur'aanic revelation that some scholars named Bukhari/Muslim/Malik/Tirmidhi/Abu da'ud would appear and that their compilations should be followed.

Trust and take sovereign in God alone, that's essentially the message of the Qur'aan.

TruthBehindIt

Salam and Peace!

The prophet peace upon him said

"I have left behind amongst you two things, the Book of Allaah and mySunnah, and they will not be separated from each other until you meetme at the Pond (al-Hawd) ."

Reported by Maalik in Kitaab al-Qadar (#1594) (only the first partof the hadeeth) and Haakim in Kitaab al-?Ilm (#319) Sheikh Al-Albaanee said Hasan in Manzilatu Sunnah fil-Islaam 1/18

These are they who lied against their Lord.? Now surely, the curse of Allah is on the unjust.

So, according to you and the big-ones, the Prophet said, ""I have left behind amongst you two things, the Book of Allaah and mySunnah, and they will not be separated from each other-------"

But Allah Commands us

-----"Follow (O mankind) that which has been sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any Awliyah (protecting friends). Little it is you remember." (73)

Why did Allah not Command us to follow The Book and The Sunnah of Rasool???

Is not the above quoted "fabricated hadith" criminally and sinfully linked with the innocent Prophet???

How can the Prophet say something which Allah never said???

Do the people fear Allah???

The above quoted fabricated hadith is a blasphemy against the Messenger, which implies that the Messenger made a change in Allah's Quran and added "MySunnah" to the word Al-Quran.-----

-----"And when Our Revelations are recited to them as Clear Evidence, those who hope not for their meeting with Us, say ?Bring a Quran other than this, or change it.? Say (O Messenger) ?It is not for me to change it on my own accord. I follow not but that which is revealed unto me. Indeed, I fear, if I were to disobey my Lord, the punishment of a Great Day.?" (1015)

The Messenger is declaring that he can not add anything to, or subtract anything from Al-Quran.

Another Exalted Verse from A Perfect Book, revealed by Perfect Allah

-----"Then if there comes to you A Guidance from Me, then whoever follows My Guidance, he will not astray, nor fall into misery. And whoever turns away from My Remembrance (Al-Quran), indeed then for him is a life of hardship, and We shall gather him on the The Judgement Day blind." (Tahaa-123,124)

Do you find any Sunnatur Rasool along with The Guidance???-----No!

Then,-----Is it not a lie against Allah and His Exalted Messenger???

-----"So who does greater wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah, or denies His revelations. Indeed, the criminals will not be successful." (1017)

SarahY

The prophet peace upon him said

"I have left behind amongst you two things, the Book of Allaah and mySunnah, and they will not be separated from each other until you meetme at the Pond (al-Hawd) ."

Reported by Maalik in Kitaab al-Qadar (#1594) (only the first partof the hadeeth) and Haakim in Kitaab al-?Ilm (#319) Sheikh Al-Albaanee said Hasan in Manzilatu Sunnah fil-Islaam 1/18

These are they who lied against their Lord.? Now surely, the curse of Allah is on the unjust.

What sunnah of rasool allah have you adopted? because AFAIK there is absolutely nothing wrong with following the prophet's way because his way was congruent with the Quran and alhmadulillah he left the Quran for us. without the prophet we wouldnt know how to submit to Allah.

Also you methodology of citing hadith to people who dont adhere to hadith is like a christian proving God is 3 through the bible. you don't follow the bible so it just looks like gibberish in one ear out the other.. faulty method. i can't say to you it's truth when you reject the source. waste of time.. arguing with a wall would be more beneficial

BTW "sunnah" doesn't mean "hadith" they're different terms.

salam

mentallooser

I think it is important to note that in the end God is the only one who will dish out this punishment. So if you really believe that people who reject Sunnah will bring forth the wrath of God, well that is between God and them isn't it.

Jafar

I think it is important to note that in the end God is the only one who will dish out this punishment. So if you really believe that people who reject Sunnah will bring forth the wrath of God, well that is between God and them isn't it.

Definitely,
Sometime the sectarian people are so 'proud' that they think they're the only one who received God's blessing, and those who disagree with them or those who is not within their sect shall earned God's wrath. Even more, some of them goes even further to think that they're God themselves.

As for me I pray that God enlightened them with His wisdom and understanding..
He guide whom He wishes yet He doesn't guide those who are wicked and proud.

Salam / Peace