Like Polytheist ingrates, atheists too are running away from 19 like zebras
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So much misinformation and ignorant remarks are posted here about 19 and related issues....
Then refute them.
Bring clear proofs from the Quran that prove what is shown is misinformation and/or ignorant.If you cannot or will not, then it proves you have nothing to say and only utter false accusations against those who bring the Truth and clear proofs that refute the falsehood you teach.
You add burden of sin to your soul by uttering manifest calumnies against those who serve Allah and none other.Bring proof or keep silent, it's wiser.
Bring your proof Surah 2111, 657, 842, 1410, 2124, 2764, 2875, 5238
Explanation is not proof.Peace.
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Excluding SEid and Raging who are like frighten sheep and who foolishly and arrogantly choose to compare God's signs to a middling play with numbers does anyone else have an answer to my question.
What is the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed suras? Give me a better interpretation than what the code 19 has provided with physical evidence
Read http//www.submission.org/quran/reader/english/index.html
(Watch as the rejectors will say " So what ! It's a coincidence! " ) Question Would a person call a sign a coincidence when a similar sign occurs 100 or 200 times over?
So far the rejectors have not answered my question. Where are the answers?
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Excluding SEid and Raging who are like frighten sheep and who foolishly and arrogantly choose to compare God's signs to a middling play with numbers does anyone else have an answer to my question.
What is the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed suras? Give me a better interpretation than what the code 19 has provided with physical evidence.
One reason the initials are there is to lead those who disbelieve astray.
The disbelievers ascribe Gematria - Jewish mystic teachings of satans - to them.
"Gematria or gimatria (Hebrew , gmariyā is a system of assigning numerical value to a word or phrase, in the belief that words or phrases with identical numerical values bear some relation to each other, or bear some relation to the number itself as it may apply to a person's age, the calendar year, or the like. It is likely that the term derives from the order of the Greek alphabet, gamma being the third letter of the Greek alphabet (gamma + tria). Alternatively, the word "gematria" is generally held to derive from Greek gemetri, "geometry", which was used as a translation of gmariy, though some scholars believe it to derive from Greek grammateia, rather; it's possible that both words had an influence on the formation of the Hebrew word. It has been extant in English since the 17th century from translations of works by Giovanni Pico della Mirandola. Although ostensibly derived from Greek, it is largely used in Jewish texts, notably in those associated with the Kabbalah."
Allah condemns practices of the satans in the Quran. Only those who disbelieve uphold these satanic teachings.
Pyramid University/Sorcery (alsshiru) of Egypt Surah 1077, 1081, 2071, 2649
Sahirin - magicians of Egypt Surah 7112, 1077-81, 2049-71, Exo. 7-8
Kabbalah/Sorcery (alsshiru) of Babylon Surah 2102, 451-52, 2073
Secret Societies Surah 587-22, 2102, 481, 4108, 4113, 978, 1747, 1530-40, 6123, 211-4, 26124-131, Zech. 1117
Diviners/soothsayers/astrologers Surah 451-52, 1516-18, 376-11, 5238-41, 675, 728-9Proof is given they uphold teachings of Jewish Mystics in their own Quran translations, reciting their source "'Studies in Jewish Mysticsm' (page 88, 1982)".
Rashad Khalifa in his translation admits this on page 636, Appendix 1.
Edip Yuksel in his translation admits this on page 544, Appendix 3.
Both men invite to teachings of satans Kabbalist teachings of sorcery and delusion.Taken from Code 19-Submitters website, proving their upholding Gematria and hadith
http//www.submission.org/suras/app25.htmlAl-Suyooty's ITQAAN, First Printing, 1318 AH, Vol 2, Page 10
"The Jews of Medina went to the Prophet and said, "Your Quran is initialed with A.L.M., and these Initials determine the life span of your religion. SinceA' is 1,L' is 30, andM' is 40, this means that your religion will survive only 71 years." Muhammad said, "We also have A.L.M.S." They said, "TheA' is 1, theL' is 30, theM' is 40, and theS' is 90. This adds up to 161. Do you have anything else?" The Prophet said, "Yes, A.L.M.R." They said, "This is longer and heavier; theA' is 1,L' is 30,M' is 40, and `R' is 200, making the total 271." They finally gave up, saying, "We do not know how many of these Initials he was given!" ""O believers, enter the peace, all of you, and follow not the steps of the satan; he is a manifest foe to you." Surah 2208
"So he led them on by delusion; and when they tasted the tree, their shameful parts revealed to them, so they took to stitching upon themselves leaves of the Garden. And their Lord called to them, 'Did not I prohibit you from this tree, and say to you, "Verily Satan is for you a manifest foe"?'" Surah 722
Forbidden Tree Surah 235, 2102, 719-22, 1760, 20120-121, 3762-64, 4443, 5652
The Tree of Life, the Tree of Immortality, the Sephiroth - where man becomes an immortal god Kabbalah.
"The Sephirot are united in the Divine view. Medieval Kabbalah describes the sin of Adam as introducing false separation between male Divine and female Shechina, by eating from the Tree of Knowledge before the Tree of Life, two aspects of the Sephirot."
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Albero_della_Vita_di_Davide_Tonato.jpg
I do not follow teachings of the satans. I reject Code 19 and strive to show what it truly is Teachings of sorcery and divination. Teachings of the satans.
Those who uphold Code 19 practice the craft of sorcery and divination. They will be among the losers in the Hereafter."and they follow what the Satans recited over Solomon's kingdom. Solomon disbelieved not, but the Satans disbelieved, teaching the people sorcery, and that which was sent down upon Babylon's two angels, Harut and Marut; they taught not any man, without they said, 'We are but a temptation; do not disbelieve.' From them they learned how they might divide a man and his wife, yet they did not hurt any man thereby, save by the leave of God, and they learned what hurt them, and did not profit them, knowing well that whoso buys it shall have no share in the world to come; evil then was that they sold themselves for, if they had but known." Surah 2102
The satans have no power over Allah?s servants Surah 1530-42
Allah did not make any mistakes. Allah neither errs nor forgets. Surah 482, 2052
Allah knows exactly what men need to believe, and to be led astray.
Proof is given.Peace.
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So much misinformation and ignorant remarks are posted here about 19 and related issues....
About 15 years ago, I addressed many of the distortions and misinformation on this issue. I invite anyone who has sincere interest in the subject matter to read my letter to Signs Magazine, at
http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/signs.htm
Peace,
EdipPeace Edip
In this letter you endorse the idea that Rashad Khalifa was a messenger, a -rasool-.
selected quotes
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I believe that Rashad Khalifa was a messenger of God. If you ask why do I believe, I can list quite a few reasons.
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Rashad did not receive a book; he advocated Quran alone
- The footnotes, subtitles and appendices of Rashad?s translation, "Quran the Final Testament," are not revela-tions besides the Quran, but his personal under-standing that is subject to human fil-tration, misunderstanding, interpretation and specula-tions. He advocated the Quran alone
unquote
The Koran seems to indicate otherwise
Verse 5725 - We sent our messengers supported by clear proofs and we sent down to them the scripture and the law, that the people may uphold justice.-
This verse alone is sufficient koranic proof that there were no new messengers after the prophet Mohammad. According to this verse ? human messengers bring a scripture and law ? with the permission of God.
No man or woman after the life-time of Mohammad has brought mankind a new scripture and a new -sharia-, that was sent down truly in the name of God.Possible discoveries about the Koran do not make a person a messenger in the koranic tradition.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602264.0
Truthseeker
Disclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Mr.Raging,
WOW. Most impressive ;D I can see that you took some time to type out a response. So please again enlighten me as to why haven't you yet answered my simple question? laughYour question is answered and proof is given, which you cannot refute so you mock.
So be it. You have chosen your path."So the evil things that they wrought smote them, and they were encompassed by that they mocked at." Surah 1634
"And the evil deeds that they have done shall appear to them, and they shall be encompassed by that they mocked at." Surah 4533I am clear of what you do.
Dear Truthseeker171,
In your own words tell me what qualifies a person to be a Messenger of God.He quoted the Quran's words that show what a Messenger is. Surah 5725
You cannot see it in your blindness.Peace.
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Salam,
lol, from childhood, my view was that one must have a message in order to be a messenger. Repeating existing messages makes you a messenger in the same sense as one could consider me a messenger for repeating the Qur'an to someone that has not heard it .
PEACE
--------------- Student of Allah
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Your question is answered and proof is given, which you cannot refute so you mock.
So be it. You have chosen your path."So the evil things that they wrought smote them, and they were encompassed by that they mocked at." Surah 1634
"And the evil deeds that they have done shall appear to them, and they shall be encompassed by that they mocked at." Surah 4533I am clear of what you do.
He quoted the Quran's words that show what a Messenger is. Surah 5725
You cannot see it in your blindness.Peace.
Mr.Raging,
You said that God signs are placed in his book to lead people astray (which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever when the Quran says otherwise239 Those who do not appreciate and deny Our signs, they are the dwellers of fire, in it they will abide.
6410 As for those who reject and deny Our signs, they are the dwellers of the fire; they will abide therein. What a miserable destiny!
456 Those who have rejected Our signs, We will admit them to a fire. Every time their skins are cooked, We replace them with other skin that they may taste the retribution. God is Noble, Wise.
510 Those who reject and deny Our signs, they are the dwellers of hell.
621 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His signs! The wicked will never succeed.
Also God clearly shows us in the Quran that the letters of the 29 initialed are part of God?s signs
261 T. S. M.
262 These are the signs of the manifest/clarifying book.151 A.L.R, these are the signs of the Scripture, and a clear Qur'an.
311 A.L.M.
312 These are the signs of the book of wisdom.271 T'.S, these are the signs of the Qur'an and a clear Scripture.
101 A.L.R, these are the signs of the Scripture of wisdom.
Message to the believers The rejectors instead submitting and acknowledging God?s signs they would rather call it magic or work of the Devil with no proof whatsoever. Are the believers watching this amazing phenomena unfolding before us.
Is what the rejectors saying today anymore different than what people have already said in the past
67 If We had sent down to you a book already written on paper, and they touched it with their own hands, then those who have rejected would say, "This is but clear magic!"
616 When Jesus, son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, I am God's messenger to you, authenticating what is present with me of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be ?most acclaimed.'" But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, ?This is clearly magic.'
467 When Our clear signs are recited to them, those who rejected said of the truth that came to them "This is evidently magic!"
4330 When the truth came to them, they said, "This is magic, and we reject it."
Watch them well and you will see they will not believe. God has blocked them from acknowledging his signs no matter how clear they may be. They are not believers. Hence every sign that appears to them they will say ? magic? or ? satanic practices?
Answer to Mr.Raging regrading Messengers Maybe in your fantasy world every single Messenger brings a book. I don't recall the Quran ever saying that Lot or Jonah brought a book. It is quite clear to me that you don't know the difference between a messenger who is not a prophet and a messenger who is a prophet.
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The question still stands. Can anyone else give me a better interpretation of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed Suras? So far no one has given me a better answer than what the code has clearly shown.
Read http//www.submission.org/quran/reader/english/index.html
Where are the answers? I have already heard a person foolishly say that God signs are meant to deceive people. This would imply that God is really in fact an evil entity who relishes in deceiving people. I am still waiting for a structured answer with proof.
Peace,
Kevin
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I cannot keep up with every ignorant and arrogant criticism, which are very similar to each other, over and over. There are millions of ingrates who consider God as a great literary author yet also as innumerate as their ancestors.
They believe in a psychitzophrenic god who demands evidence from others but when His book is challenged to be "manmade" His only response is "I will burn you in hell." This is their level of appreciating God, the creator of the Universe which functions according to mathematics.
I have written two books on this subject, and anyone who wish to engage in a serious criticism should first study the data and arguments in those books
- NINETEEN God's Signature in Nature and Scripture
- Running Like Zebras
The second book is available on the net, and I am preparing an updated and expanded version of it for print.
The first book is not yet available electronically. But, if you cannot afford ordering the book onlien, please send me an EMAIL so that I could give you access to it at google docs.
Peace,
Edip -
I cannot keep up with every ignorant and arrogant criticism, which are very similar to each other, over and over. There are millions of ingrates who consider God as a great literary author yet also as innumerate as their ancestors.
If they are similar then you should be able to provide clear proofs from the Quran to refute them. As those who have refuted you are able to do, by the knowledge given to them by Allah.
They believe in a psychitzophrenic god who demands evidence from others but when His book is challenged to be "manmade" His only response is "I will burn you in hell." This is their level of appreciating God, the creator of the Universe which functions according to mathematics.
More strawman rhetoric. Please provide proof of these claims when you state them.
The Quran contains a falsification test. You would know this if you studied it.
"What, do they not ponder the Koran? If it had been from other than God surely they would have found in it much inconsistency." Surah 482
This is a challenge to find a mistake - a lie, a contradiction, a falsehood.
There are none in it, so I have proof it comes from Allah and not man.But according to you, there are two mistakes in it. So you are saying the Quran does not come from Allah, but from man as Allah does not make mistakes nor does He forget. But you say the Quran contains falsified ayats.
"Said Moses, 'The knowledge of them is with my Lord, in a Book; my Lord goes not astray, nor forgets --" Surah 2052
I have written two books on this subject, and anyone who wish to engage in a serious criticism should first study the data and arguments in those books
- NINETEEN God's Signature in Nature and Scripture
- Running Like Zebras
The second book is available on the net, and I am preparing an updated and expanded version of it for print.
The first book is not yet available electronically. But, if you cannot afford ordering the book onlien, please send me an EMAIL so that I could give you access to it at google docs.
This is what I took away from your comments above "Purchase my books to study my data and arguments, soon to be in print format."
"It is not given to any soul to die, save by the leave of God, at an appointed time. Whoso desires the reward of this world, We will give him of this; and whoso desires the reward of the other world, We will give him of that; and We will recompense the thankful." Surah 3145
"Those are they whom God has guided; so follow their guidance. Say 'I ask of you no wage for it; it is but a reminder unto all beings.'" Surah 690
Peace.
I have already heard a person foolishly say that God signs are meant to deceive people. This would imply that God is really in fact an evil entity who relishes in deceiving people. I am still waiting for a structured answer with proof.
Further proof your devotees have not read the Quran.
"How is it with you, that you are two parties touching the hypocrites, and God has overthrown them for what they earned? What, do you desire to guide him whom God has led astray? Whom God leads astray, thou wilt not find for him a way." Surah 488
"wavering all the time -- not to these, not to those; and whom God leads astray, thou wilt not find for him a way." Surah 4143
"Whomsoever God desires to guide, He expands his breast to Islam; whomsoever He desires to lead astray, He makes his breast narrow, tight, as if he were climbing to heaven. So God lays abomination upon those who believe not." Surah 6125
"Of camels two, of oxen two. Say 'Is it the two males He has forbidden or the two females? Or what the wombs of the two females contain? Or were you witnesses when God charged you with this? Then who does greater evil than he who forges against God a lie, in order that he may lead mankind astray without any knowledge? Surely God guides not the people of the evildoers.'" Surah 6144
"Whomsoever God leads astray, no guide he has; He leaves them in their insolence blindly wandering." Surah 7186
Allah guides those who He wills, and leads astray those who He wills.
Peace.
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The Koran seems to indicate otherwise
Verse 5725 - We sent our messengers supported by clear proofs and we sent down to them the scripture and the law, that the people may uphold justice.-This verse alone is sufficient koranic proof that there were no new messengers after the prophet Mohammad. According to this verse ? human messengers bring a scripture and law ? with the permission of God.
No man or woman after the life-time of Mohammad has brought mankind a new scripture and a new -sharia-, that was sent down truly in the name of God.Red highlights above are from me.
Dear truthseeker171,
verse 5725
1st You have interpolated Your own desires in the translation of 5725. I highlighted "down to" in your translation in red. It should be "with" instead. It makes a big difference in the MEANING of the verse. The verse says that the book is sent down with them, not sent down to them. Here, it can be the already existing books that the messenger should keep preaching, inviting the people to stop their divination, and to come back to the right path and start upholding the book again.
2nd Verse 735 clearly ADDRESSES US as the CHILDREN of Adam, and informs us that as long as CHILDREN of Adam/HUMANS, are living on this Earth, GOD, SWT, sends MESSENGERS from among ourselves, to us, if He wills.
735
O Children of Adam! If there come to you Messengers from amongst you, reciting to you, My Verses, then whosoever becomes pious and righteous, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Messengers do not bring NEW books, they just PREACH/narrate the existing ones. PROPHETS are the one that GOD, SWT, gives them books and law. And, Prophet Muhammad, pbuh, was the LAST of the prophets. See 3340 below.
Muhammad (SAW) is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of All?h and the last (end) of the Prophets]. And All?h is Ever All?Aware of everything.
Peace,
Khalil -
Mr Raging,
Do you comprehend what you say? You are saying that God the Most Gracious the Most Merciful put clear signs in the Quran to deceive people. What sort of imaginary God do you serve Mr.Raging. Because it is quite clear that you don?t serve my God who doesn?t put signs in the Quran to deceive people but rather to increase our faith(imam) in the book.In addition when God says that he will guide whom he will and lead astray whom he will he is only referring to people who have not acknowledged his signs. God is not the type of being that will just misguide someone without a cause.
The first stage in belief is acknowledgment. Since you say that God signs are not real in his book then it is you who are not guided. How can you be a believer in the Quran if you don?t acknowledge Gods signs and claim they are meant to deceive people? What sort of God do you serve?299 We have sent down to you clear signs; only the evil ones would not appreciate them. (the Quran)
34 Before; He sent down the Criterion as guidance for the people. For those who become unappreciative of God's signs, they will have a tough retribution, and God is Noble, exacting in Revenge.
2118 And those who do not know said "If only God would speak to us, or a sign would come to us." It is the same thing that the people before them have said, their hearts are so similar! We have clarified the signs for a people who comprehend.
7182 As for those who deny Our signs, We will gradually lead them from where they do not know. (The First stage in belief is acknowledgment. Those who willfully choose not to believe in God?s signs will be lead astray.)
Also you (and those you reject God?s Signs) still haven't given me a proper answer to my question. What is the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed Suras?
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Excluding SEid and Raging ... does anyone else have an answer to my question.
What is the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed suras? Give me a better interpretation than what the code 19 has provided with physical evidenceI have written two books on this subject, and anyone who wish to engage in a serious criticism should first study the data and arguments in those books
- NINETEEN God's Signature in Nature and Scripture
- Running Like Zebras
7431 and that may ask those in their hearts a disease and the kfirna -- "What intend Allah in this example?"
Your only reply Edip GV = 70 4 10 2 = 19 x 37058 (37+0+58 = 19 x 5) and countless other multiples to removing verses from Qur'an is stupid numerology which consistently proves it's for ignorant apes ...
w ch v gv
11 2 65 10020045 qiradatan apes
17 5 60 13010020045 al-qiradata the apes
10 7 166 10020045 qiradatan apes38 = 19 x 2!
w ch v gv
11 2 65 10020045 = 19 x ?!w ch v gv
17 5 60 13010020045
10 7 166 10020045 = 19 x ?!w ch v gv
11 2 65 10020045
17 5 60 13010020045
10 7 166 10020045 = 19 x ?!ape verification http//www.markknowsnothing.com/cgi-bin/calculator.php
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Mr Raging,
Do you comprehend what you say? You are saying that God the Most Gracious the Most Merciful put clear signs in the Quran to deceive people. What sort of imaginary God do you serve Mr.Raging. Because it is quite clear that you don?t serve my God who doesn?t put signs in the Quran to deceive people but rather to increase our faith(imam) in the book.Iman is our confirmed faith. Surah 82, 9124
"Those only are believers who, when God is mentioned, their hearts quake, and when His signs (ayatuhu) are recited to them, it increases them in faith (eemanan), and in their Lord they put their trust," Surah 82
That ayat alone destroys your statement that Code 19 are the signs of Allah. The teachings in the Quran are the signs (ayats).
Imam is our model of behavior. Surah 2574
"who say, 'Our Lord, give us refreshment of our wives and seed, and make us a model (imaman) to the godfearing.'" Surah 2574
The initials above are there to serve Allah's will, not yours. Allah never commanded the satanic practice of Gematria, and He condemns and warns of following these teachings of satans in the Quran. You choose to uphold these teachings, striving to put satanic teachings on these initials. Such is the will of Allah.
He guides who He wills, and leads astray whom He wills.
In addition when God says that he will guide whom he will and lead astray whom he will he is only referring to people who have not acknowledged his signs. God is not the type of being that will just misguide someone without a cause.
The first stage in belief is acknowledgment. Since you say that God signs are not real in his book then it is you who are not guided. How can you be a believer in the Quran if you don?t acknowledge Gods signs and claim they are meant to deceive people? What sort of God do you serve?You attempt strawman and leading argument, with the supposition that your stance is true. It is proven earlier you uphold teachings of satans, which disproves the foundation you have created your argument on.
On the contrary, I am the one saying the signs of Allah are real. The signs are the ayats - the verses - in the Quran. Proof is given from the Quran that it is the teachings in the Quran.
The signs are not a Code based on teachings of mysticism and Kabbalah. You cannot prove otherwise when the revelation is brought to bear.299 We have sent down to you clear signs; only the evil ones would not appreciate them. (the Quran)
So why do you disbelieve in the teachings - the signs - therein?
"What, is it not sufficient for them that We have sent down upon thee the Book that is recited to them? Surely in that is a mercy, and a reminder to a people who believe." Surah 2951
34 Before; He sent down the Criterion as guidance for the people. For those who become unappreciative of God's signs, they will have a tough retribution, and God is Noble, exacting in Revenge.
2118 And those who do not know said "If only God would speak to us, or a sign would come to us." It is the same thing that the people before them have said, their hearts are so similar! We have clarified the signs for a people who comprehend.
7182 As for those who deny Our signs, We will gradually lead them from where they do not know. (The First stage in belief is acknowledgment. Those who willfully choose not to believe in God?s signs will be lead astray.)
As proven, I do not deny Allah's signs. I uphold the Quran and the teachings therein.
I do not say the Quran has falsehood in it. You do.
I do not uphold teachings from mystics and hadith. You do.I show proof from the Quran of the teachings you uphold in your Code 19 Kabbalist Gematria from the Babylonian satans. You cannot refute this.
Also you (and those you reject God?s Signs) still haven't given me a proper answer to my question. What is the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed Suras?
You are asking man to explain the Quran to you, when Allah is Guide. Allah explains. )
Proof is given these initials have led you and many astray by the teachings of satans who seek to give them meaning. One meaning for these letters is given by your actions and beliefs."It is He who sent down upon thee the Book, wherein are verses clear that are the Essence of the Book, and others ambiguous. As for those in whose hearts is swerving, they follow the ambiguous part, desiring dissension, and desiring its interpretation; and none knows its interpretation, save only God. And those firmly rooted in knowledge say, 'We believe in it; all is from our Lord'; yet none remembers, but men possessed of minds." Surah 37
You cannot refute Rashad Khalifa was not a Messenger, who fabricated teachings, lied about receiving revelation, and made mistakes in his teachings.
You cannot refute that the Code 19 does not work when the entire Arabic revelation is used.You made your choice.
When you can bring proof, do so. Explanation is not proof.
Until then Peace. ) -
Mr.Raging,
Wow. Another impressive discourse . Yet you still haven?t given me a clear answer. Just say that you don?t know the answer and save everyone the trouble. laugh The fact is that you can?t handle the truth even when clear proof is shown. You are too proud and not capable of acknowledging Gods signs no matter how many they may be. You call it magic and superstition. Do all of Gods mathematical and scientific signs appear to you in this way??? What sort of fantasy world are you living in? To you the Quran is just the average book that anyone can write when this is not the case.Sura 1788 Say, "If all the humans and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Quran like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another."
In your fantasy world anyone can construct a book like the Quran.
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Mr.Raging,
Wow. Another impressive discourse . Yet you still haven?t given me a clear answer. Just say that you don?t know the answer and save everyone the trouble. laugh The fact is that you can?t handle the truth even when clear proof is shown. You are too proud and not capable of acknowledging Gods signs no matter how many they may be. You call it magic and superstition. Do all of Gods mathematical and scientific signs appear to you in this way??? What sort of fantasy world are you living in? To you the Quran is just the average book that anyone can write when this is not the case.Sura 1788 Say, "If all the humans and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Quran like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another."
In your fantasy world anyone can construct a book like the Quran.
On the contrary, I am the one saying the Quran is error-free, pure, and protected since the time of revelation.
You say the Quran has falsehood in it - that it contains errors. As well, you are unable to refute the proofs given, so you resort to Insult and slander - speaking calumnies you have no proof to speak. But you do prove the description of those who uphold disbelief in the Quran"Or did those in whose hearts is sickness think that God would not bring to light their rancour? Did We will, We would show them to thee, then thou wouldst know them by their mark; and thou shalt certainly know them in the twisting of their speech; and God knows your deeds." Surah 4729-30
Mr.Raging,
You said that God signs are placed in his book to lead people astray (which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever when the Quran says otherwiseAgain, you prove you haven't read the Quran.
"It is He who sent down upon thee the Book, wherein are verses clear that are the Essence of the Book, and others ambiguous. As for those in whose hearts is swerving, they follow the ambiguous part, desiring dissension, and desiring its interpretation; and none knows its interpretation, save only God. And those firmly rooted in knowledge say, 'We believe in it; all is from our Lord'; yet none remembers, but men possessed of minds." Surah 37
"This Quran could not have been forged apart from God; but it is a confirmation of what is before it, and a distinguishing of the Book, wherein is no doubt, from the Lord of all Being." Surah 1037
"The sending down of the Book, wherein no doubt is, from the Lord of all Being." Surah 322
Who is the one saying it is all from Allah, including Surah 9128-129?
Who is the one saying it isn't all from Allah, refering to Surah 9128-129?239 Those who do not appreciate and deny Our signs, they are the dwellers of fire, in it they will abide.
Who is the one not denying it is all from Allah, including Surah 9128-129?
Who is the one denying it isn't all from Allah, referring to Surah 9128-129?6410 As for those who reject and deny Our signs, they are the dwellers of the fire; they will abide therein. What a miserable destiny!
Who is the one not denying it is all from Allah, including Surah 9128-129?
Who is the one denying it isn't all from Allah, referring to Surah 9128-129?456 Those who have rejected Our signs, We will admit them to a fire. Every time their skins are cooked, We replace them with other skin that they may taste the retribution. God is Noble, Wise.
Who is the one bringing clear ayats from the teachings of the Quran, and who is bringing teachings from a self-proclaimed Messenger and Kabbalist Gematria?
All power is due to Allah. His knowledge encompasses all things.510 Those who reject and deny Our signs, they are the dwellers of hell.
Who upholds that falsehood will not enter the Quran in the past or in the future? Surah 4142
Who upholds falsehood entered the Quran in the past?
Who then is rejecting Allah's signs - the ayats of the Quran.621 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His signs! The wicked will never succeed.
Also God clearly shows us in the Quran that the letters of the 29 initialed are part of God?s signs
Who was stabbed no less than 29 times in Masjid Tucson for uttering falsehood and attributing it to Allah?
261 T. S. M.
262 These are the signs of the manifest/clarifying book."But never fresh remembrance comes to them from the All-merciful, except they turn away from it." Surah 265
151 A.L.R, these are the signs of the Scripture, and a clear Qur'an.
"These are the signs of the Book (alkitabi) and of a manifest Quran." Surah 151
"They say 'Thou, upon whom the Remembrance is sent down, thou art assuredly possessed! Why dost thou not bring the angels unto us, if thou speakest truly?' We send not down the angels, save with truth; then they would not be respited. It is We who have sent down the Remembrance, and We watch over it." Surah 156-9311 A.L.M.
312 These are the signs of the book of wisdom."Those are the signs of the Book, the Wisdom, for a guidance and a mercy to the good-doers who perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and have sure faith in the Hereafter. Those are upon guidance from their Lord; those are the prosperers.
Some men there are who buy diverting talk to lead astray from the way of God without knowledge, and to take it in mockery; those -- there awaits them a humbling chastisement. And when Our signs are recited to such a man he turns away, waxing proud, as though he heard them not, and in his ears were heaviness; so give him good tidings of a painful chastisement.
Surely those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, there awaits them Gardens of Bliss." Surah 312-8271 T'.S, these are the signs of the Qur'an and a clear Scripture.
"Ta Sin. Those are the signs of the Koran and a Manifest Book, a guidance, and good tidings unto the believers who perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and have sure faith in the Hereafter. Those who believe not in the Hereafter, We have decked out fair for them their works, and they wander blindly; those are they whom an evil chastisement awaits, and they will be the greatest losers in the Hereafter." Surah 271-5
101 A.L.R, these are the signs of the Scripture of wisdom.
"Was it a wonder to the people that We revealed to a man from among them 'Warn the people, and give thou good tidings to the believers that they have a sure footing with their Lord'? The unbelievers say, 'This is a manifest sorcerer." Surah 102
You should have kept reading.
Message to the believers The rejectors instead submitting and acknowledging God?s signs they would rather call it magic or work of the Devil with no proof whatsoever. Are the believers watching this amazing phenomena unfolding before us.
Is what the rejectors saying today anymore different than what people have already said in the past
67 If We had sent down to you a book already written on paper, and they touched it with their own hands, then those who have rejected would say, "This is but clear magic!"
Who is upholding the teachings in the Quran?
Who is upholding teachings from Jewish mysticism and a self-proclaimed Messenger you admit made mistakes in teachings?Which of us is rejecting the Book when proof is given? )
616 When Jesus, son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, I am God's messenger to you, authenticating what is present with me of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be ?most acclaimed.'" But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, ?This is clearly magic.'
The Messiah (pbuh) was not given a mathematic code, nor taught Gematria or any teachings of Kabbalah.
467 When Our clear signs are recited to them, those who rejected said of the truth that came to them "This is evidently magic!"
Math is not recited. Teachings from the Quran are recited.
4330 When the truth came to them, they said, "This is magic, and we reject it."
The ayats in the Quran are the Truth. When proof is shown on who upholds the teachings and who denies them to uphold a Kabbalist mathematic code, who then is truly the rejector?
Watch them well and you will see they will not believe. God has blocked them from acknowledging his signs no matter how clear they may be. They are not believers. Hence every sign that appears to them they will say ? magic? or ? satanic practices?
Answer to Mr.Raging regrading Messengers Maybe in your fantasy world every single Messenger brings a book. I don't recall the Quran ever saying that Lot or Jonah brought a book. It is quite clear to me that you don't know the difference between a messenger who is not a prophet and a messenger who is a prophet.
You only continue to prove you have not read the Quran.
The previous revelations are all pages (suhufan) of the Book Surah 20133, 5336, 7452, 8010-13, 8718-19, 982
?And they say Why does he not bring to us a sign from his Lord? Has not there come to them a clear evidence of what is in the previous pages?" Surah 20133
Zabur means 'scripture' Surah 3184, 215, 21105-106, 4163, 1755, 26196, 5452, 3525The Torah is the Hebrew Bible, which we used to call 'The Old Testament' when we were Christians, which they call the Tanakh. Though they hide much, the Truth is still within it. That is why the Quran verifies the previous Books The Torah and the Injeel, and we are warned about following the desires of those who inherited the previous Books. Surah 548-50
Torah sent down after Abraham Surah 365
?People of the Book! Why do you dispute concerning Abraham? The Torah was not sent down, neither the Gospel, but after him. What, have you no reason?? Surah 365
Torah sent down after Jacob/Israel Surah 393
?All food was lawful to the Children of Israel save what Israel forbade for himself before the Torah was sent down. Say 'Bring you the Torah now, and recite it, if you are truthful.'? Surah 393
Torah sent down after Joseph Surah 4034
?Joseph brought you the clear signs before, yet you continued in doubt concerning that he brought you until, when he perished, you said, "God will never send forth a Messenger after him." Even, so God leads astray the prodigal and the doubter.'? Surah 4034
David given Scriptures (Zabrun) Surah 4163, 1755
?And thy Lord knows very well all who are in the heavens and the earth; and We have preferred some Prophets over others; and We gave to David Scriptures.? Surah 1755
Torah sent down before Isa Surah 350, 546, 616
?Likewise confirming the truth of the Torah that is before me, and to make lawful to you certain things that before were forbidden unto you. I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; so fear you God, and obey you me.? Surah 350
The Torah sent before the Quran Surah 33
?He has sent down upon thee the Book with the truth, confirming what was before it, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel? Surah 33
Who was the Prophet after Joseph and before Isa Moses. Peace be upon all the Prophets of Allah.Book of Moses given to Children of Israel Surah 172, 3223, 4053, 4516
?And We gave Moses the Book, and made it a guidance to the Children of Israel 'Take not unto yourselves any guardian apart from Me.'? Surah 172
?Indeed, We gave Moses the Book; so be not in doubt concerning the encounter with him; and We appointed it for a guidance to the Children of Israel.? Surah 3223
?We also gave Moses the guidance, and We bequeathed upon the Children of Israel the Book.? Surah 4053Torah given to Children of Israel Surah 393, 5110, 616
?And when Isa son of Marium said, 'Children of Israel, I am indeed the Messenger of God to you, confirming the Torah that is before me, and giving good tidings of a Messenger who shall come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.' Then, when he brought them the clear signs, they said, 'This is a manifest sorcery.'? Surah 616The Prophets, sent to the Yahud, used the Torah to judge
?Yet how will they make thee their judge seeing they have the Torah, wherein is God's judgment, then thereafter turn their backs? They are not believers.
Surely We sent down the Torah, wherein is guidance and light; thereby the Prophets who had surrendered (aslamoo) themselves gave judgment for those of Jewry (hadoo), as did the scholars and the rabbis, following such portion of God's Book as they were given to keep and were witnesses (shuhadaa) to. So fear not men, but fear you Me; and sell not My signs for a little price. Whoso judges not according to what God has sent down - they are the unbelievers.
And therein We prescribed for them 'A life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds retaliation'; but whosoever forgoes it as a freewill offering, that shall be for him an expiation. Whoso judges not according to what God has sent down -- they are the evildoers.
And We sent, following in their footsteps, Isa son of Marium, confirming the Torah before him and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the godfearing.? Surah 542-46"They measured not God with His true measure when they said, 'God has not sent down aught on any mortal.' Say 'Who sent down the Book that Moses brought as a light and a guidance to men? you put it into parchments, revealing them, and hiding much; and you were taught that you knew not, you and your fathers.' Say 'God.' Then leave them alone, playing their game of plunging." Surah 691
All the Messengers received revelation because all human Messengers were Prophets who were given scripture.
"But if they cry lies to thee, lies were cried to Messengers before thee, who came bearing clear signs, and the scriptures, and the Book Illuminating." Surah 3184
"If they cry thee lies, those before them also cried lies; their Messengers came to them with the clear signs, the Psalms, the Illuminating Book;" Surah 3525
"Every thing that they have done is in the scriptures" Surah 5452
"It is not piety, that you turn your faces to the East and to the West. True piety is this to believe in God, and the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the Prophets (waalnnabiyyeena), to give of one's substance, however cherished, to kinsmen, and orphans, the needy, the traveller, beggars, and to ransom the slave, to perform the prayer, to pay the alms. And they who fulfil their covenant when they have engaged in a covenant, and endure with fortitude misfortune, hardship and peril, these are they who are true in their faith, these are the truly godfearing." Surah 2177
If you want to see the scriptures given to the Prophets (pbut) before, open the Quran.
"Naught is said to thee but what already was said to the Messengers before thee. Surely thy Lord is a Lord of forgiveness and of painful retribution." Surah 4143
Revealed as revealed to other Prophets (pbut) Surah 287, 2253, 26192-194, 4163, 4171, 5110, 1602, 16102, 4143, 4252, 5822
"We have revealed to thee as We revealed to Noah, and the Prophets after him, and We revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, Jesus and Job, Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and We gave to David scripture," Surah 4163
All praise is due to Allah, Lord of all beings. All power is due to Him alone, and He is the One who teaches man we he knows not.
Peace. )
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Mr. Raging,
So is your stress level high after typing that long nonsensical discourse? Just so you know I am not going back to subjects that I have already clearly given an answer to (several times) Also you still haven't given me a clear answer with proof to my question. All you have done is brought more irrelevant questions to the topic. The question still stands What is the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed Suras? You (nor anyone else ) haven't shown what is there meaning and purpose in the Quran.
You haven't given me a proper answer as yet.261 T. S. M.
262 These are the signs of the manifest/clarifying book.151 A.L.R, these are the signs of the Scripture, and a clear Qur'an.
311 A.L.M.
312 These are the signs of the book of wisdom.271 T'.S, these are the signs of the Qur'an and a clear Scripture.
101 A.L.R, these are the signs of the Scripture of wisdom.
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Mr. Raging,
So is your stress level high after typing that long nonsensical discourse?You call the signs from the Quran 'nonsensical discourse'? I seek refuge in Allah from being among the ignorant.
I find study of the Quran to be relaxing actually. )"Those who believe, their hearts being at rest in God's remembrance -- in God's remembrance are at rest the hearts." Surah 1328
Just so you know I am not going back to subjects that I have already clearly given an answer to (several times) Also you still haven't given me a clear answer with proof to my question. All you have done is brought more irrelevant questions to the topic. The question still stands What is the meaning of the auspicious letters in the 29 initialed Suras? You (nor anyone else ) haven't shown what is there meaning and purpose are in the Quran.
You haven't given me a proper answer as yet.An answer was given, with proof to support it. You choose to not accept it.
One reason the initials are there is to lead those who disbelieve astray.
The disbelievers ascribe Gematria - Jewish mystic teachings of satans - to them. Do you say this is false? If you cannot say it is false, why are you following satanic teachings?
Proof is given they uphold teachings of Jewish Mystics in their own Quran translations, reciting their source "'Studies in Jewish Mysticism' (page 88, 1982)". Do you deny this? Do you have proof this is false? If you cannot deny this, why do you uphold teachings of Jewish Mystics that Allah did not reveal?
Rashad Khalifa in his translation admits upholding these teachings on page 636, Appendix 1. Rashad Khalifa gives the 'Gematrical Value on the Arabic Alphabet' on page 617, Table 7. He even admits they are teachings from the Hebrew and Greeks - stating it is 'a universal system'. Do you deny this is his teaching? If you do not, why do you uphold teachings of Kabbalist satans that Allah did not reveal?
Edip Yuksel in his translation admits admits upholding these teachings on page 544, Appendix 3.
Both men invite to teachings of satans Kabbalist teachings of sorcery and delusion. Kabbalist Gematria. Can you deny this? Do you have proof Gematria is commanded to be followed in the Quran? Where is your authority to follow these teachings?Taken from Code 19-Submitters website, proving their upholding Gematria and hadith
http//www.submission.org/suras/app25.htmlAl-Suyooty's ITQAAN, First Printing, 1318 AH, Vol 2, Page 10
"The Jews of Medina went to the Prophet and said, "Your Quran is initialed with A.L.M., and these Initials determine the life span of your religion. SinceA' is 1,L' is 30, andM' is 40, this means that your religion will survive only 71 years." Muhammad said, "We also have A.L.M.S." They said, "TheA' is 1, theL' is 30, theM' is 40, and theS' is 90. This adds up to 161. Do you have anything else?" The Prophet said, "Yes, A.L.M.R." They said, "This is longer and heavier; theA' is 1,L' is 30,M' is 40, and `R' is 200, making the total 271." They finally gave up, saying, "We do not know how many of these Initials he was given!" "You made your choice.
You cannot provide proof to support your claims, nor can you refute what is shown. If you choose to uphold the teachings of Rashad Khalifa and Edip Yuksel until your appointed term, your reward is made clear in the Quran.
"and they follow what the Satans recited over Solomon's kingdom. Solomon disbelieved not, but the Satans disbelieved, teaching the people sorcery, and that which was sent down upon Babylon's two angels, Harut and Marut; they taught not any man, without they said, 'We are but a temptation; do not disbelieve.' From them they learned how they might divide a man and his wife, yet they did not hurt any man thereby, save by the leave of God, and they learned what hurt them, and did not profit them, knowing well that whoso buys it shall have no share in the world to come; evil then was that they sold themselves for, if they had but known." Surah 2102
"Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin." Surah 448
This series of discussions has been slowly showing everyone who comes behind what Rashad Khalifa and Edip Yuksel truly teach Gematria of Kabbalah, sorcery of Babylon.
With it they will lead many astray. But the believers, the satans have no power over them.I have made my case and presented my evidence as to why I cannot believe as you believe, and why I speak out against the teachings of these men. Let those who come behind seek guidance from Allah and confirm everything that is brought forth today, lest they be led astray by false discourse or flowery speech.
Bring your proof Surah 2111, 657, 842, 1410, 2124, 2764, 2875, 5238
All knowledge comes from Allah, Lord of all beings. Him do I serve, and Him alone do I beseech for help.
Study the Quran diligently, and do not depend on my opinion. Allah is Guide, Friend to the believers.Peace. )